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Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? #19725
01/08/04 12:06 AM
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J. Hagalaz Offline OP
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I just read a post on here by some one who apologized profusely for getting out of line with several members. That was admirable if they were truly in the wrong. The thing that bothered me however was the part when they kept apologizing for breaking "Satanic Rule #..." etc. I am curious, how many of you actually follow these rules 100% and think that you must do so in order to be "satanic"? I'm interested in knowing if any of you think that some of the things in the SB and in other books about or by LaVey are being taken to literally.

I personally think that some Satanists are to worried about the details and rules. Although I identify with the principals set fourth in the SB and the 11 rules of the earth, I don't believe that there really are any rules. I think LaVey added rules for people who are on the outside looking in so they would better understand the philosophy. I mean, I never had to read the 11 rules of the earth to know that you should respect someone when you are at their house, or that it isn't very kind to harm children. There are no rules, however you will be held accountable for your actions. In other words, I think you can play with fire all you want, but if you get burned don't come crying about it, it was your fault.


They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #19726
01/08/04 12:17 AM
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Following those rules isn't a problem for the Satanist. Doing those things comes naturally. The rules are reminders. If you constantly have to watch yourself to make sure you aren't breaking any of those rules, you might have some issues to deal with.


"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #19727
01/08/04 02:46 AM
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"Man needs ritual and dogma"

Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #19728
01/08/04 02:48 AM
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Anyone saying "there are no rules" is missing the point. There are always rules. Everything in the Universe obeys natural rules. There are causes and effects connected to every and each one of our actions.

Most Satanists lived by the Satanic rules naturally even before we had read the Satanic Bible. It comes naturally. Remember a Satanist is born.


You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein

Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #19729
01/08/04 04:22 AM
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To me, it doesn't matter so much that there are "rules" set forth in the Satanic Bible, because I can interpret them (this does not mean changing them) to fit my own ethical standpoint. For example, one of the eleven rules of the earth states that if someone bothers you "in open territory", you should tell him to stop, and then "destroy him" if he won't stop. that doesn't mean you have to physically retaliate against someone who does you wrong (unless it becomes necessary for self-preservation). There are other and better ways of destroying a man (that won't put you in jail). I have generally had the same experiences with all the rules and tenets of Satanism. They certainly fit my personality, but I have my own interpretations which may differ from those of other Satanists.


I got the devil in my blood
Tellin' me what to do
(And I'm all ears) -Bon Scott
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: Old_Pig] #19730
01/08/04 04:40 AM
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For the most part, Satanists naturally embody and adhere to suggestions, mandates, and rules set down in Satanic texts. Sometimes, a Satanist may make a mistake and get off track, and once they re-trace their steps, they can see where they went wrong, and where they went wrong often corresponds with a Satanic rule or lesson. Satanism has natural laws and concepts that are based on how society and reality work, and if you are aligned with them, things more smoothly than if you move against them.

Life is full of keyholes, and Satanism provides ideas on how to best fashion one's keys. Satanic common sense fills in the blanks and spaces.


"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: TrojZyr] #19731
01/08/04 06:44 AM
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I guess the problem with rules is most people still has the Christian concept of "rules" as "God's commandments". That is rules based on a reward or punishment system. Rules as the consequence of an authority imposing its will over yours.

But the truth is rules have nothing to do with an external authority telling you what to do and threaten you with what can happen if you don't do it.

If I put my hand over a flame, I will get a burn. That doesn't mean I was punished for committing the sin of touching the fire. That means an action of my part caused a logical consequence, according with the law of physics.

Satanic rules are guidelines to survive and function in harmony with the world.


You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein

Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #19732
01/08/04 06:50 AM
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The Rules of the Earth makes sense, and following them helps one to achieve a happy and pleasureable life.

No, I don't think they are taken too seriously.

Matter of fact, I think most folks don't take them seriously enough.


Believe Nothing, Test Everything

"Well done is better than well said"

- Benjamin Franklin
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #19733
01/08/04 02:52 PM
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The rules make sense. If one chooses to "violate" one of them, it causes you and/or others grief/problems/unnecessary difficulties. There's nothing wrong with apologizing if you've been a stupid dimwit.

I agree with CD, most people, especially in here, don't take them seriously enough.


"Power without wisdom is terrifying. Wisdom without power is pathetic." -- Jay Wiseman "You cannot enjoy success while dead." -- Colonel Akula Hail Satan! www.sataniclust.com
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: Old_Pig] #19734
01/08/04 02:56 PM
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Very well said Tha_Pig. Anyone who doesn't understand them should certainly take note of what you have to say on it.


"My dear Insurgent you're an extremist, intolerant and you have prejudices. That's all." - some guy on here who got banned a decade ago

"I am a fucking Satanist and desire in all of my being to be the Queen of the World if at all possible...." - some chick on here
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: Old_Pig] #19735
01/08/04 02:58 PM
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Quote:



Most Satanists lived by the Satanic rules naturally even before we had read the Satanic Bible. It comes naturally. Remember a Satanist is born.




amen to that.

How seriously should they be taken? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #19736
01/08/04 05:09 PM
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Very simple, really. If you find yourself constantly trying and struggling to "keep in line" with the 11 Rules of Earth and/or the Satanic Sins, then you are simply not a Satanist. There is no use trying to shove a square peg into a round hole.

Or let's look at it another way. Some might say that they are not, in fact, rules, like they say on the header. Instead, they feel that this is the description of a Satanist.

But there ARE rules in Satanism, bucko! Yes, indeed! The boundaries are wide, but they are there. We laugh at those who say they "interpret Satanism to fit what they need." That is utter garbage. Once you change any part of Satanism to fit your needs, it is no longer Satanism, but a crude rendition of something. Something weird. Something strange. But definitely not Satanism.

Anton LaVey made the job description clear and simple. No one acts like a Satanist. No one changes into a Satanist. It is what you are. The 11 Rules of Earth, the Satanic Sins, and the Satanic Statements simply define us.

Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: Old_Pig] #19737
01/08/04 05:17 PM
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Satanic Rules are very much akin to the way Dr. Phil presents his "Life Laws." If you adhere to them, you do get what you do want and don't get what you don't want, and the opposite happens if you don't adhere to them. Any rational person would go with this flow if they wanted to succeed.


"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #19738
01/08/04 11:25 PM
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I recall reading somewhere recently of the old Alchemical riddle of turning lead into gold that: the world has a tendency to turn that which is born as gold into lead.

The metaphorical allusion here being that while one may well have been born a Satanist that their life circumstances up could equally as well have traumatised them into a leaden state. To follow the old ideal however in which Mercury is the so-called secret catalyst, one can further allude to this metaphor to see the reading of the Satanic Bible as the quickening which reverses this.

It follows then that as part of following the tenets set down in the Satanic Bible that one may find that along the way, a certain need to seek their own redemption somehow.

Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: The_Dude] #19739
01/08/04 11:27 PM
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J. Hagalaz Offline OP
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Quote:

To me, it doesn't matter so much that there are "rules" set forth in the Satanic Bible, because I can interpret them (this does not mean changing them) to fit my own ethical standpoint. For example, one of the eleven rules of the earth states that if someone bothers you "in open territory", you should tell him to stop, and then "destroy him" if he won't stop. that doesn't mean you have to physically retaliate against someone who does you wrong (unless it becomes necessary for self-preservation). There are other and better ways of destroying a man (that won't put you in jail). I have generally had the same experiences with all the rules and tenets of Satanism. They certainly fit my personality, but I have my own interpretations which may differ from those of other Satanists.





Yes Mr. The Dude, this is what I'm talking about. Perhaps I should have been more specific when I said that I think there are no rules. I mean in the Christian idea of the word because that is how they have most often been presented to me. The person who wrote the post that inspired me to bring this up seemed to take Satanic rules that way . I think a lot of Satanists do.

If a so called Satanist came up to me and said " oh, you just broke rule # (fill in the blank) I would probably laugh in his face. Some times it can be rewarding to break certain rules as long as you don't get caught. I myself wouldn't risk doing something that would become a liability but if I did decide to break a rule I'm not going to turn around and say "oh no, I'm not a Satanist any more." Everybody crosses boundaries one time or another, even Satanists. If a Satanist chooses (choose being the key word) not to follow a guideline for whatever reason, it doesn't automatically mean that he or she were never Satanists in the first place. It means they have free will.


They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #19740
01/09/04 02:11 AM
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It depends on the rule that was violated.

If a Satanist offers unasked-for advice, and the person later takes it into account and uses it well, one of the Satanic Rules has technically been violated, but good has been reaped, ideally because the Satanist was strategic in their approach.

If a Satanist deliberately kills a child or intentionally maims an animal for the sake of maiming it, whether they are truly a Satanist is in question because they've performed a dastardly deed that strikes at the core of the philosophy.


"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: TrojZyr] #382056
05/21/09 12:33 PM
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I found that the 'rules' were more of guidelines. They arent set in stone to follow but are basically advice Lavey would have seen to improve your own quality and not make others around have to suffer you.

Following them in such a fashion to continuously apologize for breaking one sort of lowers oneself into following rules as strictly as those of the church would.
I agree with many of Lavey's rules, guidelines, etc. but not all and I dont follow them all without exception nor apologize for breaking one.


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #382076
05/21/09 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: JEHJr
Quote:
To me, it doesn't matter so much that there are "rules" set forth in the Satanic Bible, because I can interpret them (this does not mean changing them) to fit my own ethical standpoint. For example, one of the eleven rules of the earth states that if someone bothers you "in open territory", you should tell him to stop, and then "destroy him" if he won't stop. that doesn't mean you have to physically retaliate against someone who does you wrong (unless it becomes necessary for self-preservation). There are other and better ways of destroying a man (that won't put you in jail). I have generally had the same experiences with all the rules and tenets of Satanism. They certainly fit my personality, but I have my own interpretations which may differ from those of other Satanists.



Yes Mr. The Dude, this is what I'm talking about. Perhaps I should have been more specific when I said that I think there are no rules. I mean in the Christian idea of the word because that is how they have most often been presented to me. The person who wrote the post that inspired me to bring this up seemed to take Satanic rules that way . I think a lot of Satanists do.

If a so called Satanist came up to me and said " oh, you just broke rule # (fill in the blank) I would probably laugh in his face. Some times it can be rewarding to break certain rules as long as you don't get caught. I myself wouldn't risk doing something that would become a liability but if I did decide to break a rule I'm not going to turn around and say "oh no, I'm not a Satanist any more." Everybody crosses boundaries one time or another, even Satanists. If a Satanist chooses (choose being the key word) not to follow a guideline for whatever reason, it doesn't automatically mean that he or she were never Satanists in the first place. It means they have free will.


I agree with you completely. People often don't understand that rules are just guidelines to help you reach the understanding intended by the teacher. Its fine to break rules, that's the quickest way to truly learn them smile Rules in any school of thought will not teach you at the intuitive level, just at the surface intellectual understanding. In other words, even if you intellectually agree with the Satanic Bible and you try your best to fully follow every guideline in there, it doesn't mean you understand them fully. No, you need to experience them in real life situations to fully understand what LaVey meant.
Your not following the rules because that "makes a Satanist", your choosing to follow them because your own life experience has led you to agree with them. And also, more importantly, if a rule seems to contradict your life experience, then by all means question its validity and don't be afraid to create your own rules. Now WITH that being said, I have personally found most all the rules in TSB to fit with my life experience, but I would no doubt not be afraid to question or doubt them.
You see, its when people take the rules/system too seriously that they wont be able to fully learn because intellect can never give you the full picture alone, and then you get a room of people who don't understand, are afraid to ask questions, and well you know this situation sounds familiar (*cough stagnate*...)

Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #382078
05/21/09 03:13 PM
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Reading the rules just puts into words what a Satanist already resonates with and does naturally.

If one thinks that they are too serious, hard or must remind thyself consistently not to "break"; then it's time to look in the mirror. The issue is yours alone.

Having said that, gentle reminders can be needed every once in a while & Dr LaVey wrote it most eloquently.

Quite simple.




That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #382087
05/21/09 04:09 PM
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Quote:
If a so called Satanist came up to me and said " oh, you just broke rule # (fill in the blank) I would probably laugh in his face. Some times it can be rewarding to break certain rules as long as you don't get caught.

The Satanic rules aren't just arbitrary or invented to control you. They're guidelines for not being a pushover, a shithead, or worse.

Breaking Rule #1 means you are being obnoxious.

Breaking Rule #5 means you have committed sexual assault.

Get the idea?

Last edited by reprobate; 05/21/09 04:10 PM.

reprobate
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: reprobate] #382089
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Originally Posted By: reprobate
Quote:
If a so called Satanist came up to me and said " oh, you just broke rule # (fill in the blank) I would probably laugh in his face. Some times it can be rewarding to break certain rules as long as you don't get caught.

The Satanic rules aren't just arbitrary or invented to control you. They're guidelines for not being a pushover, a shithead, or worse.

Breaking Rule #1 means you are being obnoxious.

Breaking Rule #5 means you have committed sexual assault.

Get the idea?



Yes.
Plus...consider what "the rules" are called. "Eleven Rules of the Earth". Think about that.

Not you, Reprobate...unless you want to. wink

Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster] #382091
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Me? Think? When have you ever known me to "think" about anything, Roho? laugh


reprobate
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: tekku] #382092
05/21/09 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: tekku
Reading the rules just puts into words what a Satanist already resonates with and does naturally.

If one thinks that they are too serious, hard or must remind thyself consistently not to "break"; then it's time to look in the mirror. The issue is yours alone.

Having said that, gentle reminders can be needed every once in a while & Dr LaVey wrote it most eloquently.

Quite simple.


Very nicely put. I think that says it all.



For my sins I will ask no forgiveness. For my sins they are not to forgive.
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: tekku] #382094
05/21/09 04:53 PM
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Precisely.

If you find it incredibly hard not to be (as Reprobate basically put it) a shithead, a boor, or a pervert, then perhaps Satanism's not for you.

Other religions see themselves as being difficult to practice, so they expect that their followers will constantly have to "try, try again." Not so with Satanism---while one will make mistakes and miscalculations now and then, one's practice of Satanism should NOT be a never-ending uphill battle.

Speaking of mistakes, I'm not happy with my previous reply in this thread. I made it sound like some of the rules just aren't important, when that certainly isn't the case. The rules point the way towards some Rather Important Things.

But, you do have to take context into account, and you will have to sometimes puzzle through some grey areas. For example: if I use a cosmetic product that was tested on animals, or buy a product from a company that is logging old growth forests or polluting wetlands, am I in violation of rule #10? When is it appropriate to offer one's opinion without technically having been asked? How do I know someone is "crying out to be relieved" of their burden? Which methods of discipline are harmful to children? Can NOT disciplining a child when the situation calls for it be construed as causing a kind of harm to them? Is there a time when I might have to be impolite to someone in their own lair? When is it appropriate to complain, or to discuss my troubles, and when it is not?


"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!
Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #382114
05/21/09 07:04 PM
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I think of it as stopping to ask for directions.
Let's say I want to see an art exhibit put on by Mr. Atrox. At some point, I need some clarification as to directions. I can't remember if I am supposed to make a right at the next light, or a left, so I stop and ask someone who knows the area. He tells me to make a left. I can make a right if I want to, but I ain't getting any of that free champaign I am sure Mr Atrox will be supplying.

There are no rules for being a Satanist. You're born one. But there are rules for gaining mastery over the Earth...the Eleven Rules. Heed them, and get where you want to go. Ignore them and wander about.

I realize you are probably not minimizing the rules...but thinking of "he who says 'thou shalt' is my mortal enemy".

Answer. [Re: J. Hagalaz] #382157
05/22/09 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Are Satanic rules taken too seriously?


Satanism is nothing more than respecting the nature of reality.

Translating your question then results in:

CLARIFIED QUESTION: "Are the rules of reality taken too seriously?"

ANSWER: Never.

Re: Are Satanic rules taken to seriously? [Re: J. Hagalaz] #382164
05/22/09 01:33 AM
05/22/09 01:33 AM
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What the hell? This thread was dead for five years and was of no real notability to begin with.

Locked, please check dates before you resurrected long-dead threads.


"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."
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