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Membership fees? #203550
11/21/06 05:19 AM
11/21/06 05:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
D
Dyne Offline OP
Dyne  Offline OP
D

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
I'm of legal age to join the Church of Satan (18) and everything is in order. It sounds great. Then, I learn that there is a one time two-hundred dollar membership fee? What is this? I thought Satanists denounce Christianity's hypocrisies in every way possible. Why should I be forced to pay my hard earned money to follow a religion? The Christians have been doing this for thousands of years, in the form of tithes. Is this just another way to suck dry the wallets of a religious following?

After seeing this, I thought, "nah, they must be shitting me. It's to turn away the scene-kids and posers. It's a test." Then, I learn that without this piece of red paper one can't speak with other Satanists? I could even be charged to produce ID at any given moment on the street if a cult member thinks I'm lying? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they forced you to show the card at the door if you plan on attending a festival or a ritual.

Perhaps I haven't read enough into this. Can someone explain to me exactly why I'd want to fork over my money for a religious tithe? I didn't do it when my Christian friend talked me into coming to his gathering, and I'm not going to do it to carry a CARD just to prove to some skeptics I'm one of the "group." It's a religion, not high school, right?

Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203551
11/21/06 05:59 AM
11/21/06 05:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,146
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest
Hagen von Tronje  Offline

CoS Priest

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,146
Then don't.

You're not required to join the Church of Satan to be a Satanist, or even to call yourself one with full authority. In your self-righteous anger, did you bother to read the whole thing, or did you just automatically assume that we're claiming a monopoly on Satanism and you must buy in?

Membership in the Church of Satan is for those who want to take a more active role. The fee is not just a filter...do you suppose international organizations with thousands of members in dozens of countries just run themselves on magical willpower? No, no chance of there being any overhead with that.

It's a one time processing fee, not dues, not tithing, nor even an imposing sum (compare to lifetime membership fees in other organizations, for example the NRA).

Incidentally...$200 is a tenth of your yearly income? That's what a tithe means. If so, maybe you should be thinking about correcting that rather than joining any organization.


"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203552
11/21/06 11:21 AM
11/21/06 11:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,216
LTalionis Offline
CoS Magister
LTalionis  Offline
CoS Magister

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,216


�The overman ... Who has organized the chaos of his passions, given style to his character, and become creative. Aware of life's terrors, he affirms life without resentment."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203553
11/21/06 07:08 PM
11/21/06 07:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,851
Florida
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra
Ygraine  Offline

CoS Magistra

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,851
Florida
Quote:

Why should I be forced to pay my hard earned money to follow a religion?




1. Forced? Did the Satanic Brown-shirts or the Occult IRS show up at your door bearing weapons? Did Lucifer start garnering your paycheck?
I get so bored by the outraged.

2. If you are as able to read as you are to spew (rarely the case, I've noticed, but worth a shot) you will see unending reminders that no one need be a member to consider themselves a Satanist.

Quote:

After seeing this, I thought, "nah, they must be shitting me. It's to turn away the scene-kids and posers. It's a test." Then, I learn that without this piece of red paper one can't speak with other Satanists? I could even be charged to produce ID at any given moment on the street if a cult member thinks I'm lying? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they forced you to show the card at the door if you plan on attending a festival or a ritual.





1. To be "allowed" to speak to other Satanists? The point is that other Satanists may not want to hear from you! No one is preventing you from making contact with Satanists or CoS Members. They are saying that without verifiable credentials we won't help you. Why should we? You are just a name who has shown no inclination to bond through our chosen method, and are even coming close to ridiculing those of us who have.

2. Damn Right we demand card scans for verifications at formal CoS events. You want to play the game, pay the ante.


If you are a Satanist, nothing we could do could stop you. If you aren't, no amount of monsy can make you one. The CoS is an organization in the real world where real things cost real money. You come to us, we do not proseltyze. Join or don't, but those of us who know agree with such adages as getting what one pays for, and that membership has its priveleges.

Y~


Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203554
11/21/06 07:24 PM
11/21/06 07:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,460
Florida, U.S.A.
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister
Svengali  Offline
CoS Magister

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,460
Florida, U.S.A.
You mean thats all I got 15 years ago was a little red card?

I've been duped!!!!

I want my money back!!!!!





Don't affiliate. Idiot.


Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203555
11/22/06 02:23 AM
11/22/06 02:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
D
Dyne Offline OP
Dyne  Offline OP
D

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
All right, I apologize for my ignorance. Not really much I can say to make up for it, as it was my blindness and likewise my fault. All I ask is that you understand where I was coming from. I believe strongly in the philosophies of Satanism and (wrongly) thought that it became some sort of Big Business cash-siphon. Thank you for the enlightening me on the subject, however. I'll do my best not to jump to conclusions in the future.


"What's funny about the world is people will pay for a lie but won't even take the truth for free."
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Ygraine] #203556
11/22/06 03:09 AM
11/22/06 03:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
D
Dyne Offline OP
Dyne  Offline OP
D

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
"Consider themselves." Meaning I'm not really a Satanist, and no one will accept me as one, but I can pretend to be one in my head. Christians have a similar tactic; "baptism." If you're not baptized (which, in their defense is free) they won't consider you a true Christian but will let you think you are.

This is reverse psychology, and I won't be fooled by it. You may not be able to literally 'force' me to purchase the card, but why would I want to purchase it if I'm going to be shunned for not doing so? It's social force as opposed to legal ones.

Please tell me if I'm being too uptight about the whole thing. I may be a stranger, but my questions are perfectly legimate ones. $200, yar, may not be a whole lot of money, but why would someone who questions everything, and the moral character of everyone (myself, I mean) simply throw any amount of money at anything before making sure it's legimate? I only want my doubts to be erased, and I'll ask to be treated with a certain amount of humor, all though I did not give the same charity to begin with (for which I am truly sorry.)

Last edited by Dyne; 11/22/06 03:15 AM.

"What's funny about the world is people will pay for a lie but won't even take the truth for free."
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203557
11/22/06 03:17 AM
11/22/06 03:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,354
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister
Phineas  Offline
CoS Magister

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,354
You are being too uptight. It has all been explained in clear terms. You are not needed, and neither is your money.

And there is something else you are not saying....an underlying agenda.....hmmm.....


"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Phineas] #203558
11/22/06 03:25 AM
11/22/06 03:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
D
Dyne Offline OP
Dyne  Offline OP
D

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
It HAS been explained in clear terms, and I thank you for this. I understand the whole situation. What, praytell, may my other agenda be? Originally I came to ask about the need for a fee, and I was answered with scorn and frustration.


"What's funny about the world is people will pay for a lie but won't even take the truth for free."
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203559
11/22/06 03:33 AM
11/22/06 03:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,354
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister
Phineas  Offline
CoS Magister

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,354
Quote:

It HAS been explained in clear terms




But has it been understood?

If it has been understood, then why continue with this merry-go-round?


"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Phineas] #203560
11/22/06 03:34 AM
11/22/06 03:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
D
Dyne Offline OP
Dyne  Offline OP
D

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
I can't prove that it's been understood. You'll have to decide whether I've comprehended it or not. But your last statement is correct, let it end here.


"What's funny about the world is people will pay for a lie but won't even take the truth for free."
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203561
11/22/06 03:46 AM
11/22/06 03:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,146
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest
Hagen von Tronje  Offline

CoS Priest

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,146
Look chief, why are you asking us to make a special case of justifying this to you? You have our literature, our offical website, this forum with a horde of CoS members right here, and links to dozens of member's personal pages and projects, all for free. What more do you want? You can make up your mind without us having to hold your hand.


"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Hagen von Tronje] #203562
11/22/06 03:54 AM
11/22/06 03:54 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
D
Dyne Offline OP
Dyne  Offline OP
D

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
Sorry, but I saw nothing in the rules that said 'asking questions about the Church of Satan in the "Questions about the Church of Satan" was a crime.' I never once asked someone to hold my hand, and this whole discussion will only deteriorate until I get banned if continued any futher.


"What's funny about the world is people will pay for a lie but won't even take the truth for free."
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203563
11/22/06 04:03 AM
11/22/06 04:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,354
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister
Phineas  Offline
CoS Magister

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,354
Quote:

this whole discussion will only deteriorate until I get banned if continued any futher.




Secret wish, perhaps?


"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203564
11/22/06 04:20 AM
11/22/06 04:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,146
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest
Hagen von Tronje  Offline

CoS Priest

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,146
You do realize that your major problem is your consistently defensive attitude, right?

Nor are you being honest. You didn't just ask a question about the Church of Satan, now did you? You did so with inclusion of derogatory implication and an intentionally condescending tone, and you know it.

Do you want to be banned, or are you simply aware that your actions are out of line but find you're unable to control yourself?


"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Hagen von Tronje] #203565
11/22/06 04:32 AM
11/22/06 04:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
D
Dyne Offline OP
Dyne  Offline OP
D

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
Quote:

You do realize that your major problem is your consistently defensive attitude, right?




I'm only reciprocating the defensiveness that was shown to me from the start. I began with hate, recieved it back, I apologized, and yet everyone on this board still meets me with hostility. What do you want me to do? I've apologized numerous times. I'm tired with the constant backlash and I'm tired of apologizing when it's just going to be ignored. 'Black' actions, those with rudeness and hate leave a larger imprint than 'white' actions, which are ones of kindness and understanding.

Quote:

Nor are you being honest. You didn't just ask a question about the Church of Satan, now did you? You did so with inclusion of derogatory implication and an intentionally condescending tone, and you know it.




I do know it, and I apologized, but what my apology accepted or even read? Doubtfull. I still see sarcasm and anger in your textual tones.

Quote:

Do you want to be banned, or are you simply aware that your actions are out of line but find you're unable to control yourself?




If I can avoid it, no. I would not like to be banned. However, if my opinions are so disgusting to you, I'll take my punishment without outcry. I'm not changing my way of thinking for anyone, Satanist or not.


"What's funny about the world is people will pay for a lie but won't even take the truth for free."
Re: Membership fees? [Re: Dyne] #203566
11/22/06 05:52 AM
11/22/06 05:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,146
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest
Hagen von Tronje  Offline

CoS Priest

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,146
Actually, I was pleased by your first response. It has been your persistence in returning to this again and again that is so out of place.

What should you do? Drop it. Simple as that.


"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."
Your Responses [Re: Dyne] #203567
11/22/06 01:27 PM
11/22/06 01:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,872
Hell's Kitchen, NYC
MagistraNadramia Offline

CoS HighPriestess
MagistraNadramia  Offline

CoS HighPriestess

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,872
Hell's Kitchen, NYC
Let me see if I can help.

I think you would have been treated with heightened respect and levity if you had left it here:

>All right, I apologize for my ignorance. Not really much I can say to make up for it, as it was my blindness and likewise my fault. All I ask is that you understand where I was coming from. I believe strongly in the philosophies of Satanism and (wrongly) thought that it became some sort of Big Business cash-siphon. Thank you for the enlightening me on the subject, however. I'll do my best not to jump to conclusions in the future.

-----

But 45 minutes after posting the above, you gave in to your frustration by posting this:

>"Consider themselves." Meaning I'm not really a Satanist, and no one will accept me as one, but I can pretend to be one in my head. Christians have a similar tactic; "baptism." If you're not baptized (which, in their defense is free) they won't consider you a true Christian but will let you think you are.

>This is reverse psychology, and I won't be fooled by it. You may not be able to literally 'force' me to purchase the card, but why would I want to purchase it if I'm going to be shunned for not doing so? It's social force as opposed to legal ones.

>Please tell me if I'm being too uptight about the whole thing. I may be a stranger, but my questions are perfectly legimate ones. $200, yar, may not be a whole lot of money, but why would someone who questions everything, and the moral character of everyone (myself, I mean) simply throw any amount of money at anything before making sure it's legimate? I only want my doubts to be erased, and I'll ask to be treated with a certain amount of humor, all though I did not give the same charity to begin with (for which I am truly sorry.)

-----

It makes you look inconsistent and a little crazy. You were treated accordingly.

At this point you're opposing a straw man. You seem smart enough to understand why a worldwide organization needs to charge an administration fee -- unless you think we should DONATE our time and resources, which would not be very Satanic, would it?

So why keep kicking up the dust? Listen and learn. Like it or leave.


Hail Satan!

Magistra Peggy Nadramia

Please email me with your membership questions - PMs may not be answered.
www.churchofsatan.com
HPNadramia@churchofsatan.com
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