Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#20596 - 01/12/04 05:04 PM The Church of Satan and “people”
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Another recurring phenomenon: individuals come onto the forum with issues based on their negative experience of one person they know or just met, or one small group of people calling themselves “satanic,” or because their seedy trailer park ex-boyfriend or ex-girlfriend, a self-appointed “satanist,” dumped them – or whatever.

Invariably in the end the offending party is not even affiliated with the Church of Satan.

Here is the Problem:

ANYONE can go into a bookstore, buy copies of Dr. LaVey’s books, dress the part complete with Baphomet do-dads, parrot quotes, and act like an obnoxious moron. Instant “big shot.”

What I have never quite understood, because I have never experienced it personally, is the degree of insecurity in which a person does not feel confident in their own identity until a second party has explicitly recognized it.

How many people (not just naïve teenagers, but adults too) have you met who introduce themselves immediately asserting “I am a wiccan,” “I am a healer,” “I am a shaman,” or “I am a satanist?” – or are bedecked with t-shirts, slogans, logos, signs and symbols explicitly announcing their chosen identity prop.

I have never really understood this urge to inflict yourself and your self-imposed label on others, or the need for almost constant recognition and re-affirmation of your self-appointed label, and I believe it is at the root of many problems, including the most troublesome “side-effect” aspects of the need to congregate under the auspices of any religion or any other ideology. It is the most superficial and needy motivation, and usually the earmark of psychic vampires.

No wonder people are “reacting” negatively to you – you are an asshole! It is not because you are a “satanist” – it is because you are a fucking idiot! I wish I could take your Baphomet and Satanic Bible away from you and beat you with a stick!

There is no control over this. It is unfortunate, but such is life.

When I was a teenager, my first encounter with anyone claiming to be “satanic” consisted of a group of illiterate drugged-out bottom-dwellers, complete with home-made jailhouse-quality sewing-needle & ink tattoos, all working from one nicotine-soaked copy of The Satanic Bible. I only met them once, by accident, and interacted with them for less than thirty minutes. They rasped on, in their wheezing chain-smoker’s voices, about how this and that was “forbidden” by The Satanic Bible, etc. …Really stupid stuff.

Where are these losers now? Probably in county lockup, the cemetery, or various state-run drug/alcohol rehab centers. Where am I now? Who was the “real” Satanist?

The same goes for the other loser types who found organizations claiming to be “satanic.” Either they are manifestly not-Satanic in their worldview or ethos, or they have some destructive compulsions and still want to fly the colors. They invariably attract a cluster of like-minded losers seeking consolation in numbers because they could not cut the mustard with the real McCoy.

Again, There is no control over this. It is unfortunate, but such is life.

We live here. They are just passing through. Sorry to say, they usually leave a mess behind before they finally fade into oblivion.

Our consolation is that their castles are built on sand, and as the old Chinese saying goes; if you sit long enough on the banks of the river, you will see the corpses of your enemies float by. And this has happened time and time again.

Anyone encountering these pretender-types who cannot figure out for themselves that they have just met a self-appointed retard is not really worth consideration anyway.

Now on to Phase II of “the problem”:

Even if you encounter a legitimate representative of the Church of Satan, they should be equipped to answer most of your questions regarding Satanism or the Church of Satan (otherwise they would not have been appointed as a representative), it DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY FOLLOW that you will personally like or get along with the individual (or other individuals) affiliated with the Church of Satan. It also does not mean the person you dislike is not a "real" Satanist.

Occasionally “bad eggs” get through the system of controls, and occasionally people who were once strong affiliates betray themselves (and the Church of Satan in the process) by giving way to their own self-destructive or just plain stupid impulses. This happens with individuals in any context, however elite. The same could be said of Police, Doctors, or University Professors. It says more about human nature than it does about the Church of Satan.

A curious byproduct of strong personalities (and most Satanists have strong personalities): There are many people calling themselves “Satanists” who I personally find detestable, and some of them are worthy of the term Satanist for various reasons. There are some people affiliated with the Church of Satan who I find detestable. There are a few people who are (or were) officials of the Church of Satan who I find detestable. There are individuals affiliated and un-affiliated with the Church of Satan who probably find me detestable. But, if they have any intelligence at all, their personal dislike for me would not color their feelings about Satanism or the Church of Satan any more than my contempt for them colors my experience of the same.

If there is one point of this rambling post it is this: Do not base your knowledge of Satanism or the Church of Satan on your experience of one person, or one small group of people, especially if they are not formally affiliated.

The Church of Satan is unambiguous and up front about what it is and is not. All the information, including plans and agendas, are to be had in the published works and website of the Church of Satan. You either recognize it and say, “Yes, this is me” and run with it, or not.

If you are a Satanist and find something not to your taste “flying the black flag” – then do something better. That’s what Dr. LaVey meant when he said the Church of Satan is user-driven.

Some of the most interesting and exciting projects by affiliates of the Church of Satan have been within just the last few years. A lot of personal projects, that you don’t see in magazines or websites, only from knowing people or being in the members-only section are just as exciting and interesting as more high-profile efforts documented elsewhere. Our people are “walking the walk” – living full lives, creating total environments, achieving more gratifying goals than all the pretenders combined. If we know about each other at all it is because those of us having common interests take the time to compare notes or brainstorm better ideas. They are not eagerly looking around for approval, or throwing hissy-fits when their efforts are not noticed by others, because they are working for their own personal gratification. These are the people who catch the eye of the Church of Satan, because their efforts are self-motivated, self-interested, and thereby AUTHENTIC – not some desperate bid for attention.

…. Oops, there I go again, “coddling” the slow kids, providing more hints for the faux-satanists, would-be bluffers, and those who just don’t get it.

All the petty issues and weak identity conflicts are false-dilemmas of the misguided, the shit-disturbing efforts of parasites, psychic vampires, or perpetual window shoppers poking around trying to mitigate their terminal boredom and emptiness.

These comments pertain to interaction with people face-to-face, how much more so in the silly-ass fantasy-roleplaying world that is the Internet?
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

Top
#20597 - 01/12/04 05:45 PM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Svengali]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I especially enjoyed this essay,very well written Reverend
I recently have been conversing (online) with a fairly intelligent self proclaimed Satanist about just this. He (and a disturbingly large amount of actual defacto satanists) have the wrong idea about what he/they term 'LaVeyan satanism' , and the CoS itself. This is because of people out there that take that title(modern/LaVeyan Satanist) , form 'modern satanism' groups, then blindly follow and almost deify Dr LaVey.without really understanding what it is they are 'following'

I've met a ton of them. People that take the title 'Satanist' espousing the same philosophy word for word from TSB , Praising the CoS, but by word and action demonstrates this all to be a farce.
In my mind these type of 'modern satanists' are as bad or worse than the devil worshipper variety.
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

Top
#20598 - 01/12/04 08:27 PM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Svengali]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Excellant post, unfortunately it will probably go overlooked by those who need to read it!

Top
#20599 - 01/12/04 09:06 PM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Svengali]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
If you are a Satanist and find something not to your taste “flying the black flag” – then do something better. That’s what Dr. LaVey meant when he said the Church of Satan is user-driven.

This is a KEY point. I'm sick of hearing that Satanists are all this or that because of such and such web site or publication or whatever. People are so afraid of being associated with something they don't like, personally - often for aesthetic reasons alone.

It's a cop out.

The way I see it, if everything is so hackneyed and beneath your standards, it should be easy for you ('the 'real deal') to step in and one-up everyone - all while bouncing on one hoof, chewing a leg of lamb and rubbing your hairy little goat stomach.

Put up or shut up.

We have a great opportunity. There is an amazing amount of room for growth and exploration within Satanism. So much can be improved, expanded upon, developed and enriched - while still remaining consistent with that Bedrock foundation. And what's more, we enjoy a leadership that welcomes intelligent experimentation, thought and creativity with open arms.

In religious terms, everyone here is still very much "getting in on the ground floor". Satanism is still under 40!

It is a good time to be a Satanist. We are quite lucky.

Bravo, Rev. Svengali. A few more of these 'thumbtacked' posts (Rev. Lang's was also fantastic and quite necessary) and there will be no more questions to ask.



Top
#20600 - 01/12/04 09:39 PM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Svengali]
WyckedImp Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 72
Loc: Washington
An excellent post, Sir. Hopefully the people who need to read it will read it. Anyone with an inkling of intelligence should understand without having to read it, but we know how that goes!

Might I had, everytime I read one of your posts, I invariably find myself laughing at something particularly witty that you have stated!

HS
_________________________
Every day above ground is a good day.

Top
#20601 - 01/12/04 09:46 PM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Svengali]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
As the saying goes, empty cans rattle loudest, and that goes for uncertain cans too. Meaning, the people who are least confident about themselves and their position in the Universe will rattle loudest to convince others--and, actually, to mostly convince themselves--that they are what they say they are, and that this is true and wholly legitimate.

People who know who they are and who realize that this is legitimate are less inclined to advertise it because they don't need to--there's no need to convince themselves of what they already need to know, and no need to seek the approval of people whose opinions really don't matter.

Bravo, Rev. Svengali. On point, as usual.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#20602 - 01/13/04 01:13 AM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Svengali]
Solomon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 499
Loc: Cincinnati
Excellent.

Straight to the source. This should be on the Church of Satan website as well.

Regards,
Solomon
_________________________
Dodge Swinger 1973, Galaxy 500,

All the way stars' green, gotta go.

Top
#20603 - 01/13/04 01:30 AM LaVeyan Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Solomon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 499
Loc: Cincinnati
This issue was addressed partly in Satan Speaks under the "Third Side" essay.

It seems foolish doesn't it? "Satanism" was Dr. LaVey's idea, and his chosen title for the religion he formed. Laid out for all to see in the literature, on the website, and to a lesser degree, here on the board.(I say this because it takes some digging, and deciphering to find the jewels of knowledge in a sea of bantering. At least here on the upper levels.) The second it is catagorized as "LaVeyan" and the "better idea" is formed by the deviant group, it becomes something different. Not Satanism, but a belief structure formed of their collective thought that they mask as Satanism.

Simple things are often hardest to understand, it would seem.

_________________________
Dodge Swinger 1973, Galaxy 500,

All the way stars' green, gotta go.

Top
#20604 - 01/13/04 05:02 AM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Svengali]
laksefisker Offline


Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 1609
Loc: Norway


Excellent!!! If this post gets pinned to the top of the forum along with the others, anyone who comes in here asking "what is Satanism", or some other such stupid question should instantly get banned.
_________________________
"Power without wisdom is terrifying. Wisdom without power is pathetic." -- Jay Wiseman "You cannot enjoy success while dead." -- Colonel Akula Hail Satan! www.sataniclust.com

Top
#20605 - 01/13/04 07:58 AM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Svengali]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:


What I have never quite understood, because I have never experienced it personally, is the degree of insecurity in which a person does not feel confident in their own identity until a second party has explicitly recognized it.

How many people (not just naïve teenagers, but adults too) have you met who introduce themselves immediately asserting “I am a wiccan,” “I am a healer,” “I am a shaman,” or “I am a satanist?” – or are bedecked with t-shirts, slogans, logos, signs and symbols explicitly announcing their chosen identity prop.

I have never really understood this urge to inflict yourself and your self-imposed label on others, or the need for almost constant recognition and re-affirmation of your self-appointed label, and I believe it is at the root of many problems, including the most troublesome “side-effect” aspects of the need to congregate under the auspices of any religion or any other ideology. It is the most superficial and needy motivation, and usually the earmark of psychic vampires.




Maybe the answer lies within the theory of the eight stages of devolopment put forward by psychologist Erik Erikson. The two stages in particular being outlined below:

Stage 5: Adolescence -- Age 12 to 18

Crisis: Identity vs. Role Confusion
Description: This is the time when we ask the question "Who am I?" To successfully answer this question, Erikson suggests, the adolescent must integrate the healthy resolution of all earlier conflicts. Did we develop the basic sense of trust? Do we have a strong sense of independence, competence, and feel in control of our lives? Adolescents who have successfully dealt with earlier conflicts are ready for the "Identity Crisis", which is considered by Erikson as the single most significant conflict a person must face.

Positive outcome: If the adolescent solves this conflict successfully, he will come out of this stage with a strong identity, and ready to plan for the future.

Negative outcome: If not, the adolescent will sink into confusion, unable to make decisions and choices, especially about vocation, sexual orientation, and his role in life in general.


Stage 6: Young Adulthood -- Age 19 to 40

Crisis: Intimacy vs. Isolation
Description: In this stage, the most important events are love relationships. No matter how successful you are with your work, said Erikson, you are not developmentally complete until you are capable of intimacy. An individual who has not developed a sense of identity usually will fear a committed relationship and may retreat into isolation.

Positive outcome: Adult individuals can form close relationships and share with others if they have achieved a sense of identity.

Negative outcome: If not, they will fear commitment, feel isolated and unable to depend on anybody in the world.

(source:http://psychology.about.com/library/weekly/aa091500b.htm)




Top
#20606 - 01/13/04 08:40 AM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Anonymous
Unregistered


In your opinion, is the Church of Satan truly a meritocracy? Does a member's standing truly reflect his standing in the real world and/or his Satanic insight?

Top
#20607 - 01/13/04 10:27 AM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Svengali]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
>Occasionally “bad eggs” get through the system of controls,
>and occasionally people who were once strong affiliates
>betray themselves (and the Church of Satan in the process)
>by giving way to their own self-destructive or just plain stupid
>impulses.

Or aside from people who turn truly obnoxious, I think there will inevitably be cases of clashing personalities between certain Satanists. There are some individuals in the COS that I flat-out don't get along with, even if I whole-heartedly consider them bonafide Satanists. Of course, that's to be expected from an organization of such strong-minded individuals; there's bound to be somebody who annoys you on some personal level. I just choose not to associate with these people. Fortunately, we're not expected to get along with each and every COS individual.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

Top
#20608 - 01/13/04 11:02 AM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” *DELETED* [Re: Bill_M]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Post deleted by Reverend_Lang

Top
#20609 - 01/13/04 11:06 AM Re: The Church of Satan and “people”
Anonymous
Unregistered




**chants mantra under his breath**

Don't feed the monkey....don't feed the monkey....don't feed the monkey.......

Top
#20610 - 01/13/04 11:19 AM Re: The Church of Satan and “people” [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

Put up or shut up.




EXACTLY!

I almost used that exact phrase in the segment you quoted!
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Forum Stats
12113 Members
73 Forums
43870 Topics
405532 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements