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#208710 - 12/17/06 12:35 AM Re: Time Travel [Re: Alia]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

It depends. What's "forever"? (Especially if time doesn't exist.)




Forever means never ending. When it comes to death and aging time is irrevelent in the minds of humans. I'm sure there are mentally ill people who have no concept of time, yet they still age and die. Aging is in our genes.

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#208711 - 12/17/06 12:46 AM Re: Time Travel [Re: Nemo]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

I can understand this common suppostition as we look at most complex creatures on this world and they all seem to age and die.

However many unicellular creatures merely divide and live on. Most human cancer cells are functionally immortal as well.

The supposition that things will not change in this area requires one to ignore the advances happening almost daily now that the human genome project has been completed.




Science is advancing with the human genome project. Even if they are successful in eliminating the aging gene, the odds of you dying from unnatural causes is still great. Let's face it, the longer you live the more chances you have of getting into an accident or natural disaster. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a deathist mentality. I'm all for life and living as long as I can. Those are just the facts. Accepting this makes me more careful and aware.

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#208712 - 12/17/06 01:09 AM Re: Time Travel [Re: Carkosa]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

Even if they are successful in eliminating the aging gene, the odds of you dying from unnatural causes is still great.




I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to argue against that. That's the nature of death, regardless of whether or not science extends life to an indefinite life span. Life expectancy will still remain quantifiable. That, however, does not concern me. Those are risks that I'm willing to take for an aging process that is virtually nonexistent.


Quote:

Let's face it, the longer you live the more chances you have of getting into an accident or natural disaster.




Speaking in purely hypotehtical terms, it's just as likely that given prolonged life, to the point of negligible senescence, human ingenuity will eliminate a large percentage of the risks we now face. In fact, it's possible that eventually human technology will become so great, as to make the quality of life a risk-free experience.

I concede that much of this is hypothetical, but it seems quite reasonable to me.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a personís faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#208713 - 12/17/06 04:39 AM Re: Time Travel [Re: Poetaster]
Alia Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 228
Loc: At Sorrow's End
Hehe. It would be hard to kill my grandfather without even being born.

Simply because if I were to go back to say, fifty-three, and kill my nineteen year old paternal grandfather, who at that time was childless, and with that eliminate the possibility of my ever being born... then I wouldn't be born. I wouldn't even be dead, I would not exist so that I could go back in time and kill anybody!(Which would probably be for the best.)

Just to be fair; the consequences could have been less fatal if I limited myself to going back to nineteen eighty-seven, and kill myself the day I was born. But again; if I am going to do that, then I have already done it, and have no business still living right now!

PS! I have no intention of doing so, I am not murderous nor am I suicidal. I just couldn't resist using myself as an example.

HS!
_________________________
~Alia~

Carpe Noctem

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#208714 - 12/17/06 06:44 AM Re: Time Travel [Re: Alia]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
This is the paradox of time travel, yet it only exists in going backwards in time. When asked about time travel my brother said "if it were possible to go back in time, why don't we have people coming back from the future already?" I don't know if he came up with this himself but I thought it was brilliant!

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#208715 - 12/17/06 10:10 AM Re: Time Travel [Re: Mr Sam]
Alia Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 228
Loc: At Sorrow's End
Quote:

"if it were possible to go back in time, why don't we have people coming back from the future already?"




Well, you got me there. I don't know. Maybe there are? But it would be foolish of them to reveal themselves, and surely noone sends foolish people back in time? (If you met one, and he told you, you probably would not believe him.)
But maybe they can't, for instance because the future hasn't happened yet, (there's always the possibility) and so we will have to wait for the future to get back into the past. Hard to say. If the future has already happened, it would be even harder to conceive of. And if someone was to change the past, would we even notice?
HS!
_________________________
~Alia~

Carpe Noctem

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#208716 - 12/17/06 11:33 AM Re: Time Travel [Re: Poetaster]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to argue against that. That's the nature of death, regardless of whether or not science extends life to an indefinite life span. Life expectancy will still remain quantifiable. That, however, does not concern me. Those are risks that I'm willing to take for an aging process that is virtually nonexistent.




Those are risks I'm willing to take as well. It's a lot better than living a shorter lifespan.



Quote:

Speaking in purely hypotehtical terms, it's just as likely that given prolonged life, to the point of negligible senescence, human ingenuity will eliminate a large percentage of the risks we now face. In fact, it's possible that eventually human technology will become so great, as to make the quality of life a risk-free experience.





I highly doubt technology will be able to wipe out every possible risk of death or accident. There will always be war and humans who kill each other at random - there will never be world peace. You can also get struck by lightning, drown in a tsunami or die in an earthquake, choke on a sandwich or take a nasty fall. Such is the reality of the law of averages the longer you are alive. In the most fantastical scenerio, let's imagine technology got to the point where we would be able to revive ourselves from every possible form of death or we were able to harness our concienceness and put it into another living host.

We would be no different than zombies who keep coming back over and over again through all eternity. When it comes to Sci-fi, anything is indeed possible. The question is...will it all happen? Although some of what was considered science fiction in the past has become real science in our present, I can't say anything is possible when it comes to real science yet. Even if these things were possible in the future, it will never happen in our lifetime. Belief in physical immortality in our lifetime is a pipe-dream.


Edited by Carkosa (12/17/06 11:57 AM)

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#208717 - 12/17/06 12:12 PM Re: Time Travel [Re: Carkosa]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

it will never happen in our lifetime. Belief in physical immortality in our lifetime is a pipe-dream.




For you, it is. That's the choice you've made. I am not going to stand in your way.

_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a personís faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#208718 - 12/17/06 12:37 PM Re: Time Travel [Re: Poetaster]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

For you, it is. That's the choice you've made. I am not going to stand in your way.




Wow. You are either taking a great leap of faith or you hold the possession of some great secret of immortality that can win you the grandest Nobel Prize or millions of dollars.

By the way, I do choose to live at all costs. I'm just not going to delude myself into believing things that are not true. If the absolute proof of physical immortality is out there right now in this lifetime, I would be the first to sign up! But unfortunately, there is none.

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#208719 - 12/17/06 12:41 PM Re: Time Travel [Re: Carkosa]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
I believe it will eventually come down to one major discovery, who can say when that discovery will be made?

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#208720 - 12/17/06 12:48 PM Re: Time Travel [Re: Mr Sam]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

I believe it will eventually come down to one major discovery, who can say when that discovery will be made?




There are reasonable and logical estimations going by the current technology we have. I think 100 years is even a short timespan to create nanotechnology, not to mention perfect it! To believe otherwise it a great leap of faith.

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#208721 - 12/17/06 01:33 PM Re: Time Travel [Re: Carkosa]
Alia Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 228
Loc: At Sorrow's End
Quote:

By the way, I do choose to live at all costs. I'm just not going to delude myself into believing things that are not true. If the absolute proof of physical immortality is out there right now in this lifetime, I would be the first to sign up! But unfortunately, there is none.




You should be receiving a lot of PMs shortly. If you don't, I will send you one myself.
_________________________
~Alia~

Carpe Noctem

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#208722 - 12/17/06 03:55 PM Re: Time Travel [Re: Mr Sam]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
How do you or he know it hasn't happened?

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#208723 - 12/17/06 05:02 PM Re: Time Travel [Re: Phineas]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
Quote:

How do you or he know it hasn't happened?



Ok perhaps a time-traveller has been covered up or been considered a loon. But surely there would be hundreds of them popping up all over the place, unless time-travel is only for the upper classes mind.

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#208724 - 12/17/06 05:15 PM Re: Time Travel [Re: Mr Sam]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

But surely there would be hundreds of them popping up all over the place, unless time-travel is only for the upper classes mind.




In theory, perhaps.

I suggest reading the interview with Dr. Carl Sagan that I posted within this very thread. Dr. Sagan advances five reasons why that's not necessarily what we should expect.

Further study of Dr. Sagan will shed even more light on this subject.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a personís faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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