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#212742 - 01/03/07 09:35 PM Re: Men are Slaves: Explained [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

So why did I make such an inflammatory post? To prove that evolutionary design and biological function, and the reality of human experience, are indeed one and the same yet the perspective you take on your own life is all that truly matters.




And as Wolf Larsen would say: "Ah, I cannot get you to understand, cannot drive it into your head, what a thing this life is. Of course life is valueless, except to itself. And I can tell you that my life is pretty valuable just now--to myself. It is beyond price, which you will acknowledge is a terrific overrating, but which I cannot help, for it is the life that is in me that makes the rating."

This quote is one of the more inspirational passages I've ever read, and has an amazing parallel to what you've written here and in your initial article--with a little necessary brainpower thrown in the mix for good measure.

Genetically speaking or to continue the allusion, yeasty ferment, life has only the purpose it sets to itself, namely reproduction.

Anyone with a little biology background and some common sense knows where that conclusion leads to--again you did a wonderful job breaking it down into no nonsense reality.

Each man is going to choose his actions, nothing is determined past genetics, which we're more than capable of bypassing--it's our nature. But none of that lessens the very real genetically determined role of "man towards woman" as a vessel for genetic fecundity.

In essence, without a woman, your genes are staying put right where they are. That's the genetic reality, but nobody ever said reality was a fixed constant.

To slave or not to slave, that is the question. But at least now we know what our genes want.

Note: Just having fun here, if I'm completely off my rocker, don't hesitate to tell me.

_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#212743 - 01/03/07 09:42 PM Re: Men are Slaves [Re: TrojZyr]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

There is this great quote from Pinker's The Blank Slate on that one that sums up my feelings on the matter better than I could.

Quote:

I believe that the rape-is-not-about-sex doctrine will go down in history as an example of extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds. It is preposterous on the face of it, does not deserve its sanctity, is contradicted by a mass of evidence, and is getting in the way of the only morally relevant goal surrounding rape, the effort to stamp it out.



Think about it. First obvious fact: Men often want to have sex with women who don't want to have sex with them. They use every tactic that one human being uses to affect the behavior of another: wooing, seducing, flattering, deceiving, sulking, and paying. Second obvious fact: Some men use violence to get what they want, indifferent to the suffering they cause. Men have been known to kidnap children for ransom (sometimes sending their parents an ear or finger to show they mean business), blind the victim of a mugging so the victim can't identify them in court, shoot out the kneecaps of an associate as punishment for ratting to the police or invading their territory, and kill a stranger for his brand-name athletic footwear. It would be an extraordinary fact, contradicting everything else we know about people, if some men didn't use violence to get sex.




Edited by Rev_Malebranche (01/03/07 09:42 PM)

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#212744 - 01/03/07 09:56 PM Re: Men are Slaves: Explained [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
So I'd like to ask your opinion on something; given that we, as humans, are somewhat en tandem evolutionarily speaking, between our basic biological drives and our rather new, social complexities, how do you see these biological factors evolving?

Or more simply put, do you think our brains will ever override our bodies, given that science (fertility clinics) and said increasingly complex societies (office work, multiple exposure to various alternative lifestyles) has somewhat altered our basic biological needs?

Or am I full of shit for asking in the first place?

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#212745 - 01/03/07 10:01 PM Re: Men are Slaves [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I would at least say that sex isn't always just about sex. Sex symbolizes many things and provokes many sensations and emotions. Otherwise, the only folks who'd rape 80-year-old grandmas, incontinent wheelchair-bound retards, and prepubescent children would usually have those specific fetishes (and, certainly, those scumbags do exist).

But, no, I don't buy the arguments that sex is inconsequential or that rape and sex are separate.

And, while I do think that there are things and settings can increase the chances of rape, or that can make rape seem like a more appealing behavior, I don't buy the common arguments that we'd all be just fine and dandy if we turned off the TV and didn't expose boys to porno. I also don't buy the feminist arguments that men go specifically abuse or rape women out of some snarky desire to be deliberately patriarchal or sexist; women just happen to be physically weaker and sexually desirable as a general rule, so things proceed from there, if that makes sense.
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"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#212746 - 01/03/07 10:07 PM Re: Men are Slaves [Re: Poetaster]
Doctor_Beat Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/06/06
Posts: 282
Quote:

When you're aware that you're ignorant about a topic, your opinion of that topic, isn't really an opinion.

So here you go:

This is a good place to start, although I'm a bit disappointed that Richard Dawkins is not on this list, so you'll likely want to check out these as well:

1. The Selfish Gene
2. The Extended Phenotype
3. The Blind Watchmaker
4. River out of Eden
5. Climbing Mount Improbable

Richard Dawkins has two other books, but they are not directly tied in with evolutionary biology.




I'd like to add 'Human Instinct' by Robert Winston to that list- it truly is a fantastic book, and is written with the layperson in mind.
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#212747 - 01/03/07 10:08 PM Re: Men are Slaves [Re: TrojZyr]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
And that a great deal of aggression and violence is often part of consentual sex.

Violence and sex are by no means mutually exclusive, but they are present to varying degrees.

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#212748 - 01/03/07 10:08 PM Re: Men are Slaves: Explained [Re: Zaftig]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Our biological traits are extremely hardwired and even when we assume what we do has nothing to do with reproduction, in some small way it still has a connection. However, that does not mean that is a problem.

If technology keeps gaining speed then such biological drives would easily be overridden. The question is do you want them to be? If so, to what extent?

Some things are too enjoyable to just erase because they might be inefficient in today’s world or tomorrow’s.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#212749 - 01/03/07 10:12 PM Re: Men are Slaves [Re: Doctor_Beat]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Thank you for that, and also I'd like to mention that I forgot to add The Ancestors Tale, which is also by Richard Dawkins and quite the read I might add.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#212750 - 01/03/07 10:16 PM Re: Men are Slaves: Explained [Re: Zaftig]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10122
You are to some extent bound by your genetic heritage, like it or not.

But humans are unique in being able to break those shackles. Regardless, I believe the whole point of Satanism is to live as the animal you are, not against it.

As for society altering our instinct, I think it has not. We no longer hunt, we work. We no longer form packs, we form offices. We no longer have clans, we have governments.

Same difference, evolutionarily speaking.

Ever notice people without children tend to have pets?
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#212751 - 01/03/07 10:16 PM Re: Men are Slaves [Re: TrojZyr]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

Otherwise, the only folks who'd rape 80-year-old grandmas, incontinent wheelchair-bound retards, and prepubescent children would usually have those specific fetishes (and, certainly, those scumbags do exist).




Yeah, the author addresses that as well. Apparently people point that out a lot, but those instances make up a small portion of the rapes that occur. Pedophiles DO have that fetish, and when it comes to old women and retards the idea may be more that they are less likely to fight back. A hole is still a hole if your standards are low enough. The really misleading thing about the rape-is-about-power-not-sex mantra is that it sets up power and sex as two mutually exclusive things. For men, especially (but also for many women in various ways), sex and power inextricably linked at the deepest levels. Plenty of men will tell you that they'd LOVE to use a real woman like a blow-up doll, and pornography reflects that.

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#212752 - 01/03/07 10:31 PM Re: Men are Slaves: Explained [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
Yes I have. And they love, and are as attached to them, as if they were their children. And I understand that that is the reproductive hardwiring still going off, regardless of whether or not they reproduced.

But, comparatively speaking, our technological advances are still rather new, yes?

Could it be possible to become dependant on technology, so much so, that our biological functions are no longer revelant? Not to work against our basic animal instincts, but that those basic instincts themselves evolve drastically.

As I ask the question it seems highly unlikely, but I wonder...

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#212753 - 01/03/07 10:36 PM Re: Men are Slaves: Explained [Re: Zaftig]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

Could it be possible to become dependant on technology, so much so, that our biological functions are no longer revelant? Not to work against our basic animal instincts, but that those basic instincts themselves evolve drastically.




Well, theoretically, men, who in their infinite retardedness have pioneered technology, could have the last laugh and wipe out the need for women entirely if they chose to do so. Or there's the reverse Amazonian scenario, of course.

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#212754 - 01/03/07 10:39 PM Re: Men are Slaves: Explained [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
Which brings us right back on topic to men vs women.

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#212755 - 01/03/07 10:59 PM Re: Men are Slaves: Explained [Re: Zaftig]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

Which brings us right back on topic to men vs women.




I didn't design the conflict. It's, like, 'natural' and stuff.


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#212756 - 01/03/07 11:35 PM Re: Men are Slaves: Explained [Re: Zaftig]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10122
Evolution takes too long for technology to act on it. By the time evolution could hope to affect us, technology will have changed drastically.

I mean seriously, technology changes every decade. Evolutionary changes take tens of thousands of years, or hundreds of thousands of years.

So no. Not unless we engineer it, of course.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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