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#220705 - 02/09/07 10:57 AM Re: "Anton LaVey was a fraud" [Re: The_Sixth_Circle]
Nonesuch Offline


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 87
Loc: The Empire State
Perhaps the best defense of Anton LaVey I have ever read. Nicely done! And I think it is telling that most of the people pointing out how LaVey was a "fraud" are those associated with other "satanic" organizations, who I will not name here because frankly, they get too much attention as it is.

Equally annoying are those who say "LaVey did a good job attacking Christianity, but then he thought up an equally silly religion. What a hypocrite!". While LaVey's Satanism has a healthy dose of anti-Christianity in it (pretty self evident I think!) it is not what its against that makes it so original: its what it promotes and the positive values it brought to the table. The framework of Satanism wouldn't be half as original as it is if all LaVey's writings did was criticise Christianity.

And on a somewhat related note, a lot of the above alluded to pseudo-Satanic groups criticise LaVey for turning into a fascist towards the end of his life. I'm not sure exactly what they mean. I assume that they think a philosophy based on individualism that was born in the 1960's should be some kind of hippy "We're all Okay" ideology. Satanism's elitism turns them off it seems, and the views LaVey expressed in interviews and in writing are not up to their egalitarian standards. Therefore, he is a fascist and a nutcase! While the individualism of Satanism is important, I think its concept of justice and Lex Talionis is good in that it sets it apart from these mushy self help groups.

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#220706 - 02/09/07 02:38 PM Re: "Anton LaVey was a fraud" [Re: The_Sixth_Circle]
WolfMoon Offline


Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 735
Excellent post. Very well stated.

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#220707 - 02/09/07 05:20 PM Re: "Anton LaVey was a fraud" [Re: The_Sixth_Circle]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
As usual, you cut through the mustard with the best of them.

Well done!

One thing I'd like to highlight and compliment you on is the fact that you recognize the most important issue; it doesn't matter if any of this is true.

What Dr. LaVey codified is absolutely brilliant, practical, knowledgeable, economical, judicious, sagacious, cosmopolitan and any other adjective you care to apply. His real name, height, weight and sexcapades will never detract from that, no matter the nay-saying.


Edited by Poetaster (02/09/07 05:22 PM)
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#220708 - 02/09/07 07:04 PM Re: "Anton LaVey was a fraud" [Re: The_Sixth_Circle]
PWG Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 403
Loc: MI
Quote:

The fact is, Dr. LaVey was a monolith; a Satanic archetype that ripped into Christian apathy and showed it for the ridiculous sham that it is. He brought magic to an audience that had a life outside a ritual chamber and encouraged the talented to make their mark however they wanted to make it.




Outstanding, just outstanding!

All of the detractors of Dr. LaVey seem to base their opinions on misinformation and stupidity. I have read all of the man's books, and when you step back and take a look at the whole picture, well, it's simply stunning.

But to get that, you've got to read it.

Again, great post!

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#220709 - 02/09/07 08:02 PM Re: "Anton LaVey was a fraud" [Re: The_Sixth_Circle]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Great post.

I always say that even if every one of the lies they say about Doctor LaVey were true… I would still be a Satanist. I identify with the religion he codified, not the tabloid trivia he may have inspired. My admiration for his work doesn’t depend on how many lions he domesticated or how many lovers he had.
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You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


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#220710 - 02/10/07 02:09 AM Re: "Anton LaVey was a fraud" [Re: Nonesuch]
The_Sixth_Circle Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 432
Loc: Hell; where else?
Quote:

While LaVey's Satanism has a healthy dose of anti-Christianity in it (pretty self evident I think!) it is not what its against that makes it so original: its what it promotes and the positive values it brought to the table.



This is also why Satanism, as codified by Dr. LaVey, is the only expression of Satanism in history.

While there are many groups that may have been Satanically inclined in the past, the Church of Satan is the first (and, I might add, only) organisation that is positively dedicated to a life-loving and rational religion based on the great adversary. All other historical examples are reversals of Christianity, usually based on hatred of societal injustice based on Christianity.

In short, Satanism as codified by Anton Szandor LaVey is the original and best.
_________________________
Have You Met The Alien Elite? / The Sixth Circle @ Myspace

Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived. - Sir Oscar Wilde

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#220711 - 02/10/07 02:16 AM Re: Untouchable [Re: Caesar]
The_Sixth_Circle Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 432
Loc: Hell; where else?
Quote:

Something I am proud of Doktor for is that despite the many attempts to assassinate his character (and who knows what other untold kinds of chicanery he has to deal with), stands just as tall today as ever.



I don't know which is the more amazing facet of the man; his ability to transmute opposing opinions and ideals into something tangible and philosophically (and magically) sound, or the absolute timelessness of said material.

Turning lead into gold; gold which, as we all know, endures.

Dr. LaVey was a true alchemist.
_________________________
Have You Met The Alien Elite? / The Sixth Circle @ Myspace

Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived. - Sir Oscar Wilde

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#220712 - 02/10/07 06:52 PM Re: "Anton LaVey was a fraud" [Re: The_Sixth_Circle]
Tex_Talionis Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Amarillo, TX
Another great post.

It's always a sign of someone's insecurity that when they hear they may have been duped they must "help" others not be duped as they were. They will crusade to save themselves, and become frustrated when they realize they're the only ones who care whether or not it was true. These individuals jump on personality cults fairly easy from what I've seen. Jumping on to the next personality as you stated another LaVey or some coat-tail rider, when said personality "shows them the truth," of course this informant is surely the 100% real deal and wouldn't dare lie to them.
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