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#221512 - 02/13/07 06:10 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Mythil]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
Has it occurred to you that perhaps the bin man was wrong?
I wouldn't base my decisions on the teachings of a bin man.

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#221513 - 02/13/07 06:16 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Noelia Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Spain
I would recommend you check out this book,
Factor Four: Doubling Wealth, Halving Resource Use - A Report to the Club of Rome by Ernst U.von Weizsacker
it attempts to demonstrate that we can continue to develop technologically and still have less of a impact in our planet (it may be a bit obsolete now since it was written in 1998, but it is a good read)
_________________________
Si lo que tienes que decir no es mejor que el silencio, mejor no digas nada

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#221514 - 02/13/07 06:32 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
Two quick points:

1) If the Church of Satan ever mandated that I must have a particular political, economic or enivironmental stance, I would resign immediately. That is not the purpose of Satanism. It is actually the exact opposite. You are free to make your own opinions. Take advantage of that. Quit looking for a Church Policy to stand behind.

Why do people continuously ask for help in making their own decisions, anyway? I believe it may be to have someone to blame if they find out they were wrong.

2) We are not killing the planet. If anything, we are only speeding along our own demise as a species. The planet will recover. As Discipline has already stated, this planet has endured much worse than us. A single volcanic eruption does more to damage the environment than we ever could (excluding nukes, I would guess). Why don't you really help the environment and cap Mount St Helens?

In closing, if you would like to help save the human race, I applaud you. Just don't try to include me in your crusade because I am a Satanist and you feel that it is my duty to join you. I won't. I will be too busy living.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#221515 - 02/13/07 06:33 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
For me, the benefits of electricity and gas heating make up for the slightly warmer weather and slightly raised sea levels.
I also know that I have never released large amounts of toxins into the air, at least not personally.

Your claim that responsibility to the responsible applies here appears stretched if not completely misplaced. I always looked at it on an individual level not species by species. The human race as a whole causes global warming not me individually.

If a Satanist's most favourite hobby was to sit in a landfill burning copious amounts of fossil fuels then, as long as he is within the law, I would not mind.

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#221516 - 02/13/07 06:39 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
unholy_dragon Offline


Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 47
Loc: london, england
The re-occurring discussion of Global warming and Climate change on Television has become so tiresome and stale that it not worth the effort any more. Go back twenty years, you will find that Global warming and climate change was on Television then. In that length of time, The topic has never changed and very little was done to stop Global warming.

I personally do not follow the news on Global warming as it has no relevance to how I live my life. “I can not stop Global warming so call me when the Earth is on fire”

Man is a selfish animal and would not care about any wild animals that was in the way of natural material, either be woodland or mineral. Man is not going to give up fossil fuel burning factories and petroleum powered transport for the sake of Global warming. They are going to carry on singing the same tune over and over again.


Most if not all animals are aware of the climate changing around them as is the plants.
I not long after new years day noticed a Daisy growing in the grass. Which for this time of year is well too early for this flower to even emerge? As you all know daisies flower in the spring which meant winter has become warmer.

It will take a lot of years before the climate starts to become intolerable and unlivable for man. Earth will survive way after we are gone, life goes on. Evolution takes hold.
_________________________
To simply exist is one thing but to live is to embrace reality.

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#221517 - 02/13/07 06:45 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Mr Sam]
Mythil Offline


Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 110
Loc: UK, Portsmouth
He seemed to know his stuff, wise bin man

Well, I give old clothes to the salvation army, to be honest, better on a homeless person than in the bin.
I take glass to a recycling plant, I use energy saving bulbs and I turn the computers off at home when they are not in use.
I think I'm doing my bit ^^
_________________________
My Heaven is your hell - Lordi "He was the sort of person who stood on mountaintops during thunderstorms in wet copper armour shouting 'All the Gods are bastards.'" - Terry Pratchett

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#221518 - 02/13/07 07:15 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Minus]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 868
Loc: Australia
Thanks for your perspective.

I did not realise at first that I was arguing a political issue. I do understand this now, and would never imagine the CoS mandating a political stance.

Quote:

Why do people continuously ask for help in making their own decisions, anyway? I believe it may be to have someone to blame if they find out they were wrong.




What decision is this.

Quote:

A single volcanic eruption does more to damage the environment than we ever could




Have you got a reference for this, I am interested.

Quote:

if you would like to help save the human race, I applaud you




I am more interested in saving the millions of animals that die, I couldn't give a shit about any human I don't know or care for.

Quote:

Just don't try to include me in your crusade because I am a Satanist and you feel that it is my duty to join you. I won't. I will be too busy living.




I never had a crusade, just an idea. As it turned out, a political one, which I would never try to promote to such an extent once it was identified as such. Now that it has been identified as political, I would not expect other Satanists to join my view. Each to their own. I have stated this, it is written in a previous post. My passion for the environment blurred the issue.

You live and learn!
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221519 - 02/13/07 07:27 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Mr Sam]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 868
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Your claim that responsibility to the responsible applies here appears stretched if not completely misplaced. I always looked at it on an individual level not species by species. The human race as a whole causes global warming not me individually.




I understand it would appear stretched. It is just my personal stance that being of a religion that promotes responsiblity, I should do more for the environment to make up for the damage I've contributed to.

I did not initially realise I was promoting a political stance. This was not my intention. Each to their own.
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221520 - 02/13/07 07:34 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
Quote:

What decision is this.




Political decisions and standpoints.

Quote:

Have you got a reference for this, I am interested.




From Wikipedia:
"Large, explosive volcanic eruptions inject water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur dioxide (SO2), hydrogen chloride (HCl), hydrogen fluoride (HF) and ash (pulverized rock and pumice) into the stratosphere to heights of 10-20 miles above the Earth's surface. The most significant impacts from these injections come from the conversion of sulphur dioxide to sulphuric acid (H2SO4), which condenses rapidly in the stratosphere to form fine sulfate aerosols. The aerosols increase the Earth's albedo—its reflection of radiation from the Sun back into space - and thus cool the Earth's lower atmosphere or troposphere; however, they also absorb heat radiated up from the Earth, thereby warming the stratosphere. Several eruptions during the past century have caused a decline in the average temperature at the Earth's surface of up to half a degree (Fahrenheit scale) for periods of one to three years. The sulphate aerosols also promote complex chemical reactions on their surfaces that alter chlorine and nitrogen chemical species in the stratosphere. This effect, together with increased stratospheric chlorine levels from chlorofluorocarbon pollution, generates chlorine monoxide (ClO), which destroys ozone (O3). As the aerosols grow and coagulate, they settle down into the upper troposphere where they serve as nuclei for cirrus clouds and further modify the Earth's radiation balance. Most of the hydrogen chloride (HCl) and hydrogen fluoride (HF) are dissolved in water droplets in the eruption cloud and quickly fall to the ground as acid rain. The injected ash also falls rapidly from the stratosphere; most of it is removed within several days to a few weeks. Finally, explosive volcanic eruptions release the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide and thus provide a deep source of carbon for biogeochemical cycles."

"Gas emissions from volcanoes are a natural contributor to acid rain. Volcanic activity releases about 130 to 230 teragrams (145 million to 255 million short tons) of carbon dioxide each year. Volcanic eruptions may inject aerosols into the Earth's atmosphere. Large injections may cause visual effects such as unusually colorful sunsets and affect global climate mainly by cooling it. Volcanic eruptions also provide the benefit of adding nutrients to soil through the weathering process of volcanic rocks. These fertile soils assist the growth of plants and various crops. Volcanic eruptions can also create new islands, as the magma dries on the water."

I realize there are no comparisons in this article dealing with the negative effects as compared to human-created effects but you can still see the impact a single eruption can make to the environment. Add to that the number of years volcanos have pre-dated humans and you can draw your own conclusions.


Quote:

I am more interested in saving the millions of animals that die, I couldn't give a shit about any human I don't know or care for.




If you want to make an impact on the number of animals that die, stop eating them. You are taking the difficult route by trying to change the planet. Just change your eating habits. Much easier.

Quote:

I never had a crusade, just an idea. As it turned out, a political one, which I would never try to promote to such an extent once it was identified as such. Now that it has been identified as political, I would not expect other Satanists to join my view. Each to their own. I have stated this, it is written in a previous post. My passion for the environment blurred the issue.




Fair enough. Now, let's go get a burger.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#221521 - 02/13/07 08:37 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Isn't it enough to have reasons?




Please clarify.




Individuals apply the principles. And there is more to action than a handful of principles. You construe the facts, you apply the principles; you use your own discretion, always. I assume you have reasons for what you do. You can say, "I live the way I do because...." -- you can say that, and leave US out of it altogether.

You say you're just asking questions; I took them to have a rhetorical tone and didactic subtext. If that's not your intent, I apologize. So I asked: Are you really asking us for our opinion, or are you giving your own?


Edited by reprobate (02/13/07 05:27 PM)
_________________________
reprobate

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#221522 - 02/13/07 08:54 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Nonesuch Offline


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 87
Loc: The Empire State
I look at it this way: it is the herd, not Satanists, who are convinced to buy large quantities of (mostly useless) plastic crap. While I would imagine most of us enjoy the many benefits a modern society has to offer (there may be a few back to nature Satanists out there I suppose), including more than a few things that cause pollution when they are made and disposed of, it is the consumerist society that we try to rise above that leads to environmental destruction. I suppose I should like some kind of hippy who wants everyone to wear hemp clothing and "reduce their environmental footprint". However, most environmentalists don't realize that the technological advancements that have come along with our evil materialist economic and social system have done plently to help the environment. Future advancements will more than likely lead to even cleaner ways to drive, heat your home, ect.

In short, a case can be made from the Satanic perspective that our current way of doing things is among the best in terms of environmental sustainability, as long as technological advancements continue.

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#221523 - 02/13/07 09:00 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
T28 Offline


Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 31
Loc: Alicante, Spain
If something bothers you, do something about it.
I hope the Earth does not warm up by 2oC because we´ll flood but its not my problem.

Do you attend Anti-Pollution Rallies or Demos?
To do so is to show your Protest. Go for it

Quote:

This issue has been on my mind for some time, and is close to my heart.

I am posting this topic in General Satanism Discussion as well as Questions about the CoS as I am also curious about CoS policy in regards to the topic.

Global warming has recently become a hot topic.

Background info here.

Heaps of information on climate change here (thankyou America ).

Wikepedia here.

This quotation:

Quote:

0.13 °C. The amount the atmosphere is warming each decade

1.3 times as much CO2 is entering the atmosphere compared with just 20 years ago

3 kilometres. The depth to which the oceans have warmed

3.1 centimetres. The rise in sea level each decade

90 per cent certainty that we are to blame

source




Several reports here.

Not only does the human pursuit for material success contribute to the destruction and pollution of earth, but hence to the death of thousands of animals.

Recently in Western Australia 5000 birds just dropped dead out of the sky. Environmental toxins are suspected.

Fish deaths and animals killed by litter.

Quote:

Land clearing is the main cause of salinity in the state and many other types of land degradation such as soil loss. It exacerbates drought. Land clearing kills millions of birds and animals each year and is identified as one of the key threats to 240 animals listed as endangered or threatened in NSW (Australia).




Quote:

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.




Does this only apply if you kill with your own two hands? If so, why? We are killing animals now simply as a result of pollution, caused by our thirst for material gain. Why is this ok?

It has gone beyond us humans simply soiling our own lair, we are destroying our planet. Does this not go against self-preservation?

Quote:

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!




As Satanists we claim to be responsible, above the herd. Should we not take some responsibility for the affect we have on the environment? Are we not otherwise hypocrites?

6th Satanic Sin:

Quote:

6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.




Surely this applies to global warming and pollution of earth. By our nature as Satanists we strive for excellence and material success, BUT this has an affect on animals and our environment. We NOW know that it is killing the planet, so in addition to striving for success should we not also have rules supporting preservation of the planet?

My main question here is, as Satanism goes against harming animals, and stands for responsibility and self-preservation, should we not be doing something more?

Pentagonal Revisionism was written in 1988 before this global problem was well known. My suggestion is that it could include something regarding the preservation of our global environment.

Some tips for the individual here and here.

Where do YOU think our responsiblity starts and finishes???


_________________________
We Come in Peace, We Leave you in Pieces.

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#221524 - 02/13/07 09:49 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
Man-made global warming is a lie promulgated by the political left, specifically aimed at the US and capitalism. It is designed to cast guilty feelings on the herd in order to:

A - Obtain funding at taxpayers expense for "scientists" to sit around conducting endless studies that produce nothing. These same "scientists" could not survive in private industry where you have to produce RESULTS.

B - Scare the herd into accepting more government control over our lives. If its for the good of the environment, well, ok go ahead tell me what I can and can't drive, when I can, etc. WRONG! Socialist bullfeathers.

The same bunch that is screaming about GW can't tell you what the weather is going to be like next week. 30 years ago they were screaming it was about global COOLING and how we would all freeze. They said the rainforests would be gone by now. That the coastlines would disappear in the 1990's

Notice who is championing this lie, and what they do in their personal lives. If the situation is so dire and desperate why:

Doesn't Al Gore, Ted Kennedy (D) John Kerry (D) Hilary Clinton (D), the entire leadership of the Democrat party and their willing accomplices in the Hollywood liberal limousine crowd give up their private planes, mansions and lavish lifestyles that waste so much energy, hmmm?

Look at how much energy was wasted at the Grammys. How many of these GW chicken littles arrived in SUV's limo's and private jet, hmmm? How much electricity was used to light everything up, etc.?

If they believe this nonsense, they sure don't show it with their example. Oh, wait its not about them, its about ME daring to think on my own and drive whatever the Hell I want!

Let us protect the Earth, but do it based on intelligensce and reason, not junk science and emotionally driven, politically backed concensus.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#221525 - 02/13/07 10:12 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
By our nature as Satanists we strive for material success - contributing more to pollution than those living more down-to-earth. So don't we have a greater responsiblity? Especially as we claim to be responsible, and do not believe in harming animals?

That's certainly how I interpret it in my own life.

I'm quite concerned and engaged with ecological problems and issues. My house runs on wind and solar energy, and my car, while not a hybrid or electric (yet), can get anywhere between 30-40 mpg. I also do various other things, some noticeable, some very subtle. When I can, I also plant seeds in others' heads that appeal to their own needs and values, so that they may decide that it is in their own best interest to pay attention to these matters.

I'm not a screamer or a chicken little, nor am I an activist. I don't believe humans will turn the earth into a black rocky ball of nothing. I don't believe in crashing corporate meetings to rant and scream, I don't believe all corporations or businesses are completely evil, I don't believe everything is doomed. So, I'm hardly a leftist nut. I just note that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, whether or not every environmental problem or issue is REALLY "our fault." If you might have an STD, you don't sit around debating whether it was due to you putting on the condom wrong or the condom failing, and you don't wait to make sure that the STD is "really that bad"; you go and get the STD cured ASAP.

Oh, and while the left wing exaggerates the issues, the right wing downplays the issue. Obviously, people whose livelihoods depend on oil, cars, lumber,or land development, or depend on people who are, are not going to say, "My particular industry is screwing the pooch." That's not in their (short term, says I) personal and financial interest. The irritating thing is that they don't seem to quite understand how many of their industries--oil, coal---have limited lifespans, and how they could just as easily adopt new, ecologically sound practices and sell new, more ecologically sound products, thus ensuring their success and wealth and cultural relevance for a long time to come. But, old paradigms and ways of doing things die hard.

_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#221526 - 02/13/07 10:37 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Phineas]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

Man-made global warming is a lie promulgated by the political left, specifically aimed at the US and capitalism. It is designed to cast guilty feelings on the herd in order to:

A - Obtain funding at taxpayers expense for "scientists" to sit around conducting endless studies that produce nothing. These same "scientists" could not survive in private industry where you have to produce RESULTS.

B - Scare the herd into accepting more government control over our lives. If its for the good of the environment, well, ok go ahead tell me what I can and can't drive, when I can, etc. WRONG! Socialist bullfeathers.

The same bunch that is screaming about GW can't tell you what the weather is going to be like next week. 30 years ago they were screaming it was about global COOLING and how we would all freeze. They said the rainforests would be gone by now. That the coastlines would disappear in the 1990's

Notice who is championing this lie, and what they do in their personal lives. If the situation is so dire and desperate why:

Doesn't Al Gore, Ted Kennedy (D) John Kerry (D) Hilary Clinton (D), the entire leadership of the Democrat party and their willing accomplices in the Hollywood liberal limousine crowd give up their private planes, mansions and lavish lifestyles that waste so much energy, hmmm?

Look at how much energy was wasted at the Grammys. How many of these GW chicken littles arrived in SUV's limo's and private jet, hmmm? How much electricity was used to light everything up, etc.?

If they believe this nonsense, they sure don't show it with their example. Oh, wait its not about them, its about ME daring to think on my own and drive whatever the Hell I want!

Let us protect the Earth, but do it based on intelligensce and reason, not junk science and emotionally driven, politically backed concensus.




Excellent reply Magister. It is easy to control the herd if you make them fearful (over any issue) from gun control to yes, Global Warming. What many do not understand is those big wigs championing this whole GW BS are not interested in our welfare, let alone the welfare of innocent animals. This is a control issue pure and simple meant to enslave others by fear. Dig deeper and one will certainly always find MONEY as a motivating factor behind the lies that are being spoon fed to the herd.

Thinking outside of the box is not only wise but is also essential in maintaining freedom. When one does not look ahead of them (and behind them Historically speaking), it is often easy to miss the 'big picture' by not thinking 'what comes next' and what has been stripped away from Me? My car? Do I now have to car-pool? How convenient that would be. Now you know who I'm with and where I'm going at all times. (No I'm not going to get into some big diatribe about government or conspiracy theories) but I am one who does understand that not everything our government tells us is for our own good. There are usually other motives behind their concern for our 'well being' and that is.... THEIR well being.



PS: I also notice that these big wig jokers don't want to let go of their own personal 'string of lights'.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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