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#221482 - 02/12/07 11:36 PM Satanism and Pollution
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
This issue has been on my mind for some time, and is close to my heart.

I am posting this topic in General Satanism Discussion as well as Questions about the CoS as I am also curious about CoS policy in regards to the topic.

Global warming has recently become a hot topic.

Background info here.

Heaps of information on climate change here (thankyou America ).

Wikepedia here.

This quotation:

Quote:

0.13 °C. The amount the atmosphere is warming each decade

1.3 times as much CO2 is entering the atmosphere compared with just 20 years ago

3 kilometres. The depth to which the oceans have warmed

3.1 centimetres. The rise in sea level each decade

90 per cent certainty that we are to blame

source




Several reports here.

Not only does the human pursuit for material success contribute to the destruction and pollution of earth, but hence to the death of thousands of animals.

Recently in Western Australia 5000 birds just dropped dead out of the sky. Environmental toxins are suspected.

Fish deaths and animals killed by litter.

Quote:

Land clearing is the main cause of salinity in the state and many other types of land degradation such as soil loss. It exacerbates drought. Land clearing kills millions of birds and animals each year and is identified as one of the key threats to 240 animals listed as endangered or threatened in NSW (Australia).




Quote:

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.




Does this only apply if you kill with your own two hands? If so, why? We are killing animals now simply as a result of pollution, caused by our thirst for material gain. Why is this ok?

It has gone beyond us humans simply soiling our own lair, we are destroying our planet. Does this not go against self-preservation?

Quote:

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!




As Satanists we claim to be responsible, above the herd. Should we not take some responsibility for the affect we have on the environment? Are we not otherwise hypocrites?

6th Satanic Sin:

Quote:

6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.




Surely this applies to global warming and pollution of earth. By our nature as Satanists we strive for excellence and material success, BUT this has an affect on animals and our environment. We NOW know that it is killing the planet, so in addition to striving for success should we not also have rules supporting preservation of the planet?

My main question here is, as Satanism goes against harming animals, and stands for responsibility and self-preservation, should we not be doing something more?

Pentagonal Revisionism was written in 1988 before this global problem was well known. My suggestion is that it could include something regarding the preservation of our global environment.

Some tips for the individual here and here.

Where do YOU think our responsiblity starts and finishes???
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#221483 - 02/12/07 11:49 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Is this actually a question?

What are "we" doing? We're each applying Satanism in our own lives, in response to our own respective local situations, according to our own respective understanding of the global facts and problems at hand, as individuals.

What do you want? A political stance? A Church policy statement from the High Priest? You won't get it.
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#221484 - 02/13/07 12:37 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: reprobate]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

What do you want? A political stance? A Church policy statement from the High Priest? You won't get it.




In this general discussion forum, I just want the opinions of other Satanists on whether its 'too much' to consider Satanism to have an opinion on the preservation of the planet, the way it allows us to pollute it to attain our material goals.

Quote:

What are "we" doing? We're each applying Satanism in our own lives, in response to our own respective local situations, according to our own respective understanding of the global facts and problems at hand, as individuals.




Does that mean that you recycle?

20 years ago doing only that would seem a-ok. Perspective may be different now that we know how badly the planet is being affected.

By our nature as Satanists we strive for material success - contributing more to pollution than those living more down-to-earth. So don't we have a greater responsiblity? Especially as we claim to be responsible, and do not believe in harming animals?
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#221485 - 02/13/07 12:49 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

In this general discussion forum, I just want the opinions of other Satanists on whether its 'too much' to consider Satanism to have an opinion on the preservation of the planet, the way it allows us to pollute it to attain our material goals.




What do you care whether Satanism "has an opinion"? Don't you have your own? Is it reasoned?

Do you want us to share your opinion because it is the Satanic opinion? Isn't it enough to have reasons?
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#221486 - 02/13/07 12:54 AM "Hello, Pizza Hut? I want..." [Re: Babydoll]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
This reminds me of a person ordering a pizza. Rather than make the dough, sauce and shred the cheese, it's easier to call someone and have it done for them. Then, if you don't like how your pizza was made, it's easy to get on the phone and complain about it.

"You didn't do what I want."

OR-

Stop trying to make me accountable for something you think is a problem.
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#221487 - 02/13/07 01:00 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Quote:

We NOW know that it is killing the planet




A century and so ago, WE KNEW the Halley Comet was going to kill every living being in the planet. The comet has passed by Earth twice since...
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#221488 - 02/13/07 01:24 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: reprobate]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Satanism advocates responsiblity and not harming animals.

Yet by also advocating impressive material gain Satanism advocates something which significantly contributes to killing millions of animals and detroying our planet.

But then there is nothing to advocate a high responsibility to preservation of the planet to balance things out.

Just "responsibility to the responsible", which is very subjective, and may have worked 20 years ago. But when you look at how BIG the problem is NOW (and how its getting worse), its a losing battle.

Quote:

What do you care whether Satanism "has an opinion"? Don't you have your own? Is it reasoned?




The stance of Satanism on important issues is important to me, as it's my religion.

Quote:

Do you want us to share your opinion...




I don't care whether YOU share my opinion. I just want to know what you think; about how far your responsibility should go for this global problem, and that of Satanists according to your interpritation of the religion.

Quote:

...because it is the Satanic opinion?




Is it?

Quote:

Isn't it enough to have reasons?




Please clarify.
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#221489 - 02/13/07 01:24 AM Re: "Hello, Pizza Hut? I want..." [Re: RandomStranger]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

This reminds me of a person ordering a pizza. Rather than make the dough, sauce and shred the cheese, it's easier to call someone and have it done for them. Then, if you don't like how your pizza was made, it's easy to get on the phone and complain about it.

"You didn't do what I want."

OR-

Stop trying to make me accountable for something you think is problem.




VERY well stated. I don't know that I could have come up with a better response. Thank you.
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"Our religion does not require martyrs."
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#221490 - 02/13/07 01:28 AM Re: "Hello, Pizza Hut? I want..." [Re: RandomStranger]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Are you saying that global warming is not a global problem?

Quote:

Stop trying to make me accountable for something you think is problem.




Assuming the links provided suggest that there IS a problem, we're all to blame, not just you
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#221491 - 02/13/07 01:32 AM Re: "Hello, Pizza Hut? I want..." [Re: Babydoll]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
"Assuming the links provided suggest that there IS a problem, we're all to blame, not just you"

You seem to have an impairment that I cannot do anything about.

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#221492 - 02/13/07 01:33 AM Re: "Hello, Pizza Hut? I want..." [Re: Evil_Eve]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Thank you for the compliment.
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#221493 - 02/13/07 01:34 AM Re: "Hello, Pizza Hut? I want..." [Re: RandomStranger]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Give it another 20 years and there won't be any Bananas left.
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#221494 - 02/13/07 01:37 AM Re: "Hello, Pizza Hut? I want..." [Re: RandomStranger]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
I always give the Devil his or her due.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#221495 - 02/13/07 01:38 AM Re: "Hello, Pizza Hut? I want..." [Re: Babydoll]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Quote:

Give it another 20 years and there won't be any Bananas left.




They said that 20 years ago!
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#221496 - 02/13/07 01:39 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
The issue of global warming being the byproduct of humans or just a natural occurrence is still debatable to at least the dedicated and reasonable scientific field.

As for a collective issue of saving the "mother" Earth, that is only important to a Satanist if he deems it important. Otherwise, why buy into fear mongering?

Why take responsibility of humanity onto your shoulders? Is it really your fault? The whole take the pain of the world as your burden is the same junk that activists use to banish those not seeking a good guy badge.

Do you think that new technology could actually improve the planet, human life, and animal welfare? Or is technology and human advancement detrimental at all times?

I also have this thing about saving the Earth. Would the Earth save you? Nope, it would not. Has the Earth survived worse than us? Yep, thousands of times.

Now, I think burning bridges is a bad idea and progress always seems to improve health, both environmental and physical. So, I am an optimist and I really don't see how advancement is so wrong.

Perhaps I missed your point.

Can a Satanist be environmental friend, absolutely. Can a Satanist be a big bad corporate leader in control of a power house, absolutely.
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"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#221497 - 02/13/07 01:43 AM Re: "Hello, Pizza Hut? I want..." [Re: Babydoll]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Yep, we are all to blame, they why worry your little head?

The whole "we are all to blame" game is so redundant.

I sound a bit rude, and I do apologize if I do. It is just I get hammered by friends and acquaintances with this kind of rubbish and I get bit annoyed.

If you feel the need to take action, do so. I will be at home draining the world of its delicious electricity and water.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#221498 - 02/13/07 01:55 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
You seem to be missing a VERY important point:

Satanism doesn't have opinions. SATANISTS have opinions. Satanism is a philosophy which Satanists use to form their opinions.

Mother Nature knows what she is doing. If the universe wants (I use the word "wants" very loosely. The universe does not want, it simply does) to heat up Earth, you are certainly not going to stop it. I am very sorry for the suffering of all those innocent animals, and I do what I can to alleviate the suffering when I can. However, life will never exist without suffering.

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#221499 - 02/13/07 02:09 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
I just want to quickly thank you for asking a polite informed question both respectfully and intelligently.

I'm a slow reader so I haven't gotten through half of your links but wanted to quickly add this comment... You get the feeling this has been asked before? Other folks here have captured my gut reaction. Just to elaborate a touch....

I feel a personal strong advocacy for domestic pets. I can't stand their mistreatment or abuse of any kind. I contribute and read constantly about groups and actions I can take that would further the ability of these groups to help our four legged friends. I actually never considered the CoS's stance on this before I did it.

I would never apologize for my passions. If you feel strongly about a stance, whatever it may be, find ways to empower it yourself. Very good. Very good feeling. Sometimes they even send you Christmas cards in thanks. If your inclinations are not in line with the CoS then that will perhaps answer questions as well.

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#221500 - 02/13/07 02:13 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Discipline]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

The issue of global warming being the byproduct of humans or just a natural occurrence is still debatable to at least the dedicated and reasonable scientific field.




Do you have a reference for this? I am very interested.

Quote:

Why will take responsibility of humanity onto your shoulders? Is it really your fault? The whole take the pain of the world as your burden is the same junk that activists use to banish those not seeking a good guy badge.




I was more leaning towards taking more responsiblity in future for ourselves, our individual impact on the environment and all the animals that have to die when we bulldoze the forests for estates.

Quote:

Do you think that new technology could actually improve the planet, human life, and animal welfare? Or is technology and human advancement detrimental at all times




Yes, and no. I think the decrease in CO2 emissions would allow the planet to fix itself to some extent (hole in the ozone layer, or the rapid climate changes for example). And the development of greener technology would help ensure preservation of life for the future. As for animal welfare, the laws need to change first.

Quote:

I also have this thing about saving the Earth. Would the Earth save you? Nope, it would not. Has the Earth survived worse than us? Yep, thousands of times.




It's hard to not feel empathy when you know that our species has wiped out thousands of others, especially when we have the intelligence to know its happening. And that what you and I do every day IS contributing. I have studied evolution, and I know the planet wouldn't save ME

I can appreciate the angle that you're coming from, but I don't expect anyone here to take responsiblity for anyone other than themselves. You didn't miss my point I don't think. My point was that as Satanists our lifestyles would contribute more to the demise of the planet that someone living a very simple life, so should we, who claim responsibility, take more individual action to make up for our higher environmental impact?
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#221501 - 02/13/07 02:14 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
Here is the Satanic stance on global warming:

If it concerns you that much, do something about it. Preferably something other than imposing your self-righteousness on others.
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"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

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#221502 - 02/13/07 02:18 AM Re: "Hello, Pizza Hut? I want..." [Re: Discipline]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Yep, we are all to blame, they why worry your little head?




Because it seems people don't take enough responsibility for the impact they have. Everyone's doing it so its ok..

Quote:

If you feel the need to take action, do so. I will be at home draining the world of its delicious electricity and water.




And herein lies the solution. I WILL feel better if I plant some more trees, so I'll do just that
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#221503 - 02/13/07 02:23 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
Does that mean that you recycle?

Are you insane? Don't you realize that in the case of paper and plastics, recycling consumes more energy than using new materials?
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#221504 - 02/13/07 02:28 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Maya]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Satanism doesn't have opinions. SATANISTS have opinions. Satanism is a philosophy which Satanists use to form their opinions.




'Opinion' was the wrong word to use. I apologize. Stance is a better word? Satanism has a stance (for example) that animals should only be killed for food or if you're attacked. This is also my stance, and thus one of my opinions is that its wrong to kill animals for sport.

Quote:

However, life will never exist without suffering.




This is true. Maybe I am feeling too much responsibity.
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#221505 - 02/13/07 02:29 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Virus9]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Thats unbelievable. Why would they want us to recycle then?
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#221506 - 02/13/07 02:37 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Shade]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
And I just want to thank you for not assuming that I want all Satanists to unite and clean the waste of the Herd

Quote:

You get the feeling this has been asked before?




It would not surprise me. But I could find nothing when I searched LttD on Satanism and global warming/pollution.

Quote:

If your inclinations are not in line with the CoS then that will perhaps answer questions as well.




Yes. LeviathanXIII has alerted me that its a political issue. I doubt many Satanists share the same political views, hence the different opinions on this topic. I do understand this a lot better now!
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#221507 - 02/13/07 02:50 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
Because someone thought it was a good idea and convinced a bunch of other people that recycling is good for the planet. Better yet, it also creates low-paying unskilled labor jobs which help large corporations earn tax-credits and increase there profit margins.

Before you ask why "they" want you to do something, determine who "they" are.
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#221508 - 02/13/07 03:25 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Virus9]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Before you ask why "they" want you to do something, determine who "they" are.




The Local Government.

Quote:

Because someone thought it was a good idea and convinced a bunch of other people that recycling is good for the planet. Better yet, it also creates low-paying unskilled labor jobs which help large corporations earn tax-credits and increase there profit margins.




How disappointing.
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#221509 - 02/13/07 03:46 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Virus9]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Here is the Satanic stance on global warming:

If it concerns you that much, do something about it. Preferably something other than imposing your self-righteousness on others.




I apologise if my misdirected passion for the environment has offended anyone.

Hail Satan!
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#221510 - 02/13/07 03:46 AM Cheap resourses! [Re: Virus9]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
In 2005, I went to an interesting business. One half of the large, 2-story building is used as a warehouse for imported items from China. Mostly plastic things, they import large props (like for party rental businesses) as well as many consumer items. The other half of the building has a machine for cleaning, chipping and packing recycled plastic to ship to China. I saw several tons of chipped plastic waiting to be brought to a container. Their plant in China processes our waste plastic and makes things to sell back to us. What a business-- turning our garbage into profits!

There wouldn't be so many opportunities to recycle if someone wasn't making a killing on it.
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#221511 - 02/13/07 06:05 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Mythil Offline


Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 110
Loc: UK, Portsmouth
Well, it's a hard lesson, but after actually talking to certain people, it finally clicked in the back of my head. Something we as humans generally gloss over, and it even says it in the Satanic bible, don't bother telling your opinions to people, it's best that you just have opinions and they work for you.

However, on the subject of the environment, since you actually asked for people opinions..
I gave up years ago. The reason why, is that the government put a special bin outside of apartment for recycling household stuff..
I was taking a bag of rubbish out to it in the early morning when one of the bin men walked up to me and said
"I wouldn't bother mate, no matter what you put in there, just gets dumped anyway, nothing out of those bins actually gets recycled. If the government isn't going to do the work, then I can be bothered to either
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#221512 - 02/13/07 06:10 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Mythil]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
Has it occurred to you that perhaps the bin man was wrong?
I wouldn't base my decisions on the teachings of a bin man.

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#221513 - 02/13/07 06:16 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Noelia Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Spain
I would recommend you check out this book,
Factor Four: Doubling Wealth, Halving Resource Use - A Report to the Club of Rome by Ernst U.von Weizsacker
it attempts to demonstrate that we can continue to develop technologically and still have less of a impact in our planet (it may be a bit obsolete now since it was written in 1998, but it is a good read)
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#221514 - 02/13/07 06:32 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
Two quick points:

1) If the Church of Satan ever mandated that I must have a particular political, economic or enivironmental stance, I would resign immediately. That is not the purpose of Satanism. It is actually the exact opposite. You are free to make your own opinions. Take advantage of that. Quit looking for a Church Policy to stand behind.

Why do people continuously ask for help in making their own decisions, anyway? I believe it may be to have someone to blame if they find out they were wrong.

2) We are not killing the planet. If anything, we are only speeding along our own demise as a species. The planet will recover. As Discipline has already stated, this planet has endured much worse than us. A single volcanic eruption does more to damage the environment than we ever could (excluding nukes, I would guess). Why don't you really help the environment and cap Mount St Helens?

In closing, if you would like to help save the human race, I applaud you. Just don't try to include me in your crusade because I am a Satanist and you feel that it is my duty to join you. I won't. I will be too busy living.
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#221515 - 02/13/07 06:33 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
For me, the benefits of electricity and gas heating make up for the slightly warmer weather and slightly raised sea levels.
I also know that I have never released large amounts of toxins into the air, at least not personally.

Your claim that responsibility to the responsible applies here appears stretched if not completely misplaced. I always looked at it on an individual level not species by species. The human race as a whole causes global warming not me individually.

If a Satanist's most favourite hobby was to sit in a landfill burning copious amounts of fossil fuels then, as long as he is within the law, I would not mind.

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#221516 - 02/13/07 06:39 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
unholy_dragon Offline


Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 47
Loc: london, england
The re-occurring discussion of Global warming and Climate change on Television has become so tiresome and stale that it not worth the effort any more. Go back twenty years, you will find that Global warming and climate change was on Television then. In that length of time, The topic has never changed and very little was done to stop Global warming.

I personally do not follow the news on Global warming as it has no relevance to how I live my life. “I can not stop Global warming so call me when the Earth is on fire”

Man is a selfish animal and would not care about any wild animals that was in the way of natural material, either be woodland or mineral. Man is not going to give up fossil fuel burning factories and petroleum powered transport for the sake of Global warming. They are going to carry on singing the same tune over and over again.


Most if not all animals are aware of the climate changing around them as is the plants.
I not long after new years day noticed a Daisy growing in the grass. Which for this time of year is well too early for this flower to even emerge? As you all know daisies flower in the spring which meant winter has become warmer.

It will take a lot of years before the climate starts to become intolerable and unlivable for man. Earth will survive way after we are gone, life goes on. Evolution takes hold.
_________________________
To simply exist is one thing but to live is to embrace reality.

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#221517 - 02/13/07 06:45 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Mr Sam]
Mythil Offline


Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 110
Loc: UK, Portsmouth
He seemed to know his stuff, wise bin man

Well, I give old clothes to the salvation army, to be honest, better on a homeless person than in the bin.
I take glass to a recycling plant, I use energy saving bulbs and I turn the computers off at home when they are not in use.
I think I'm doing my bit ^^
_________________________
My Heaven is your hell - Lordi "He was the sort of person who stood on mountaintops during thunderstorms in wet copper armour shouting 'All the Gods are bastards.'" - Terry Pratchett

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#221518 - 02/13/07 07:15 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Minus]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Thanks for your perspective.

I did not realise at first that I was arguing a political issue. I do understand this now, and would never imagine the CoS mandating a political stance.

Quote:

Why do people continuously ask for help in making their own decisions, anyway? I believe it may be to have someone to blame if they find out they were wrong.




What decision is this.

Quote:

A single volcanic eruption does more to damage the environment than we ever could




Have you got a reference for this, I am interested.

Quote:

if you would like to help save the human race, I applaud you




I am more interested in saving the millions of animals that die, I couldn't give a shit about any human I don't know or care for.

Quote:

Just don't try to include me in your crusade because I am a Satanist and you feel that it is my duty to join you. I won't. I will be too busy living.




I never had a crusade, just an idea. As it turned out, a political one, which I would never try to promote to such an extent once it was identified as such. Now that it has been identified as political, I would not expect other Satanists to join my view. Each to their own. I have stated this, it is written in a previous post. My passion for the environment blurred the issue.

You live and learn!
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221519 - 02/13/07 07:27 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Mr Sam]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Your claim that responsibility to the responsible applies here appears stretched if not completely misplaced. I always looked at it on an individual level not species by species. The human race as a whole causes global warming not me individually.




I understand it would appear stretched. It is just my personal stance that being of a religion that promotes responsiblity, I should do more for the environment to make up for the damage I've contributed to.

I did not initially realise I was promoting a political stance. This was not my intention. Each to their own.
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221520 - 02/13/07 07:34 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
Quote:

What decision is this.




Political decisions and standpoints.

Quote:

Have you got a reference for this, I am interested.




From Wikipedia:
"Large, explosive volcanic eruptions inject water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur dioxide (SO2), hydrogen chloride (HCl), hydrogen fluoride (HF) and ash (pulverized rock and pumice) into the stratosphere to heights of 10-20 miles above the Earth's surface. The most significant impacts from these injections come from the conversion of sulphur dioxide to sulphuric acid (H2SO4), which condenses rapidly in the stratosphere to form fine sulfate aerosols. The aerosols increase the Earth's albedo—its reflection of radiation from the Sun back into space - and thus cool the Earth's lower atmosphere or troposphere; however, they also absorb heat radiated up from the Earth, thereby warming the stratosphere. Several eruptions during the past century have caused a decline in the average temperature at the Earth's surface of up to half a degree (Fahrenheit scale) for periods of one to three years. The sulphate aerosols also promote complex chemical reactions on their surfaces that alter chlorine and nitrogen chemical species in the stratosphere. This effect, together with increased stratospheric chlorine levels from chlorofluorocarbon pollution, generates chlorine monoxide (ClO), which destroys ozone (O3). As the aerosols grow and coagulate, they settle down into the upper troposphere where they serve as nuclei for cirrus clouds and further modify the Earth's radiation balance. Most of the hydrogen chloride (HCl) and hydrogen fluoride (HF) are dissolved in water droplets in the eruption cloud and quickly fall to the ground as acid rain. The injected ash also falls rapidly from the stratosphere; most of it is removed within several days to a few weeks. Finally, explosive volcanic eruptions release the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide and thus provide a deep source of carbon for biogeochemical cycles."

"Gas emissions from volcanoes are a natural contributor to acid rain. Volcanic activity releases about 130 to 230 teragrams (145 million to 255 million short tons) of carbon dioxide each year. Volcanic eruptions may inject aerosols into the Earth's atmosphere. Large injections may cause visual effects such as unusually colorful sunsets and affect global climate mainly by cooling it. Volcanic eruptions also provide the benefit of adding nutrients to soil through the weathering process of volcanic rocks. These fertile soils assist the growth of plants and various crops. Volcanic eruptions can also create new islands, as the magma dries on the water."

I realize there are no comparisons in this article dealing with the negative effects as compared to human-created effects but you can still see the impact a single eruption can make to the environment. Add to that the number of years volcanos have pre-dated humans and you can draw your own conclusions.


Quote:

I am more interested in saving the millions of animals that die, I couldn't give a shit about any human I don't know or care for.




If you want to make an impact on the number of animals that die, stop eating them. You are taking the difficult route by trying to change the planet. Just change your eating habits. Much easier.

Quote:

I never had a crusade, just an idea. As it turned out, a political one, which I would never try to promote to such an extent once it was identified as such. Now that it has been identified as political, I would not expect other Satanists to join my view. Each to their own. I have stated this, it is written in a previous post. My passion for the environment blurred the issue.




Fair enough. Now, let's go get a burger.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#221521 - 02/13/07 08:37 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Isn't it enough to have reasons?




Please clarify.




Individuals apply the principles. And there is more to action than a handful of principles. You construe the facts, you apply the principles; you use your own discretion, always. I assume you have reasons for what you do. You can say, "I live the way I do because...." -- you can say that, and leave US out of it altogether.

You say you're just asking questions; I took them to have a rhetorical tone and didactic subtext. If that's not your intent, I apologize. So I asked: Are you really asking us for our opinion, or are you giving your own?


Edited by reprobate (02/13/07 05:27 PM)
_________________________
reprobate

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#221522 - 02/13/07 08:54 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Nonesuch Offline


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 87
Loc: The Empire State
I look at it this way: it is the herd, not Satanists, who are convinced to buy large quantities of (mostly useless) plastic crap. While I would imagine most of us enjoy the many benefits a modern society has to offer (there may be a few back to nature Satanists out there I suppose), including more than a few things that cause pollution when they are made and disposed of, it is the consumerist society that we try to rise above that leads to environmental destruction. I suppose I should like some kind of hippy who wants everyone to wear hemp clothing and "reduce their environmental footprint". However, most environmentalists don't realize that the technological advancements that have come along with our evil materialist economic and social system have done plently to help the environment. Future advancements will more than likely lead to even cleaner ways to drive, heat your home, ect.

In short, a case can be made from the Satanic perspective that our current way of doing things is among the best in terms of environmental sustainability, as long as technological advancements continue.

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#221523 - 02/13/07 09:00 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
T28 Offline


Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 31
Loc: Alicante, Spain
If something bothers you, do something about it.
I hope the Earth does not warm up by 2oC because we´ll flood but its not my problem.

Do you attend Anti-Pollution Rallies or Demos?
To do so is to show your Protest. Go for it

Quote:

This issue has been on my mind for some time, and is close to my heart.

I am posting this topic in General Satanism Discussion as well as Questions about the CoS as I am also curious about CoS policy in regards to the topic.

Global warming has recently become a hot topic.

Background info here.

Heaps of information on climate change here (thankyou America ).

Wikepedia here.

This quotation:

Quote:

0.13 °C. The amount the atmosphere is warming each decade

1.3 times as much CO2 is entering the atmosphere compared with just 20 years ago

3 kilometres. The depth to which the oceans have warmed

3.1 centimetres. The rise in sea level each decade

90 per cent certainty that we are to blame

source




Several reports here.

Not only does the human pursuit for material success contribute to the destruction and pollution of earth, but hence to the death of thousands of animals.

Recently in Western Australia 5000 birds just dropped dead out of the sky. Environmental toxins are suspected.

Fish deaths and animals killed by litter.

Quote:

Land clearing is the main cause of salinity in the state and many other types of land degradation such as soil loss. It exacerbates drought. Land clearing kills millions of birds and animals each year and is identified as one of the key threats to 240 animals listed as endangered or threatened in NSW (Australia).




Quote:

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.




Does this only apply if you kill with your own two hands? If so, why? We are killing animals now simply as a result of pollution, caused by our thirst for material gain. Why is this ok?

It has gone beyond us humans simply soiling our own lair, we are destroying our planet. Does this not go against self-preservation?

Quote:

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!




As Satanists we claim to be responsible, above the herd. Should we not take some responsibility for the affect we have on the environment? Are we not otherwise hypocrites?

6th Satanic Sin:

Quote:

6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.




Surely this applies to global warming and pollution of earth. By our nature as Satanists we strive for excellence and material success, BUT this has an affect on animals and our environment. We NOW know that it is killing the planet, so in addition to striving for success should we not also have rules supporting preservation of the planet?

My main question here is, as Satanism goes against harming animals, and stands for responsibility and self-preservation, should we not be doing something more?

Pentagonal Revisionism was written in 1988 before this global problem was well known. My suggestion is that it could include something regarding the preservation of our global environment.

Some tips for the individual here and here.

Where do YOU think our responsiblity starts and finishes???


_________________________
We Come in Peace, We Leave you in Pieces.

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#221524 - 02/13/07 09:49 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
Man-made global warming is a lie promulgated by the political left, specifically aimed at the US and capitalism. It is designed to cast guilty feelings on the herd in order to:

A - Obtain funding at taxpayers expense for "scientists" to sit around conducting endless studies that produce nothing. These same "scientists" could not survive in private industry where you have to produce RESULTS.

B - Scare the herd into accepting more government control over our lives. If its for the good of the environment, well, ok go ahead tell me what I can and can't drive, when I can, etc. WRONG! Socialist bullfeathers.

The same bunch that is screaming about GW can't tell you what the weather is going to be like next week. 30 years ago they were screaming it was about global COOLING and how we would all freeze. They said the rainforests would be gone by now. That the coastlines would disappear in the 1990's

Notice who is championing this lie, and what they do in their personal lives. If the situation is so dire and desperate why:

Doesn't Al Gore, Ted Kennedy (D) John Kerry (D) Hilary Clinton (D), the entire leadership of the Democrat party and their willing accomplices in the Hollywood liberal limousine crowd give up their private planes, mansions and lavish lifestyles that waste so much energy, hmmm?

Look at how much energy was wasted at the Grammys. How many of these GW chicken littles arrived in SUV's limo's and private jet, hmmm? How much electricity was used to light everything up, etc.?

If they believe this nonsense, they sure don't show it with their example. Oh, wait its not about them, its about ME daring to think on my own and drive whatever the Hell I want!

Let us protect the Earth, but do it based on intelligensce and reason, not junk science and emotionally driven, politically backed concensus.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#221525 - 02/13/07 10:12 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
By our nature as Satanists we strive for material success - contributing more to pollution than those living more down-to-earth. So don't we have a greater responsiblity? Especially as we claim to be responsible, and do not believe in harming animals?

That's certainly how I interpret it in my own life.

I'm quite concerned and engaged with ecological problems and issues. My house runs on wind and solar energy, and my car, while not a hybrid or electric (yet), can get anywhere between 30-40 mpg. I also do various other things, some noticeable, some very subtle. When I can, I also plant seeds in others' heads that appeal to their own needs and values, so that they may decide that it is in their own best interest to pay attention to these matters.

I'm not a screamer or a chicken little, nor am I an activist. I don't believe humans will turn the earth into a black rocky ball of nothing. I don't believe in crashing corporate meetings to rant and scream, I don't believe all corporations or businesses are completely evil, I don't believe everything is doomed. So, I'm hardly a leftist nut. I just note that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, whether or not every environmental problem or issue is REALLY "our fault." If you might have an STD, you don't sit around debating whether it was due to you putting on the condom wrong or the condom failing, and you don't wait to make sure that the STD is "really that bad"; you go and get the STD cured ASAP.

Oh, and while the left wing exaggerates the issues, the right wing downplays the issue. Obviously, people whose livelihoods depend on oil, cars, lumber,or land development, or depend on people who are, are not going to say, "My particular industry is screwing the pooch." That's not in their (short term, says I) personal and financial interest. The irritating thing is that they don't seem to quite understand how many of their industries--oil, coal---have limited lifespans, and how they could just as easily adopt new, ecologically sound practices and sell new, more ecologically sound products, thus ensuring their success and wealth and cultural relevance for a long time to come. But, old paradigms and ways of doing things die hard.

_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#221526 - 02/13/07 10:37 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Phineas]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

Man-made global warming is a lie promulgated by the political left, specifically aimed at the US and capitalism. It is designed to cast guilty feelings on the herd in order to:

A - Obtain funding at taxpayers expense for "scientists" to sit around conducting endless studies that produce nothing. These same "scientists" could not survive in private industry where you have to produce RESULTS.

B - Scare the herd into accepting more government control over our lives. If its for the good of the environment, well, ok go ahead tell me what I can and can't drive, when I can, etc. WRONG! Socialist bullfeathers.

The same bunch that is screaming about GW can't tell you what the weather is going to be like next week. 30 years ago they were screaming it was about global COOLING and how we would all freeze. They said the rainforests would be gone by now. That the coastlines would disappear in the 1990's

Notice who is championing this lie, and what they do in their personal lives. If the situation is so dire and desperate why:

Doesn't Al Gore, Ted Kennedy (D) John Kerry (D) Hilary Clinton (D), the entire leadership of the Democrat party and their willing accomplices in the Hollywood liberal limousine crowd give up their private planes, mansions and lavish lifestyles that waste so much energy, hmmm?

Look at how much energy was wasted at the Grammys. How many of these GW chicken littles arrived in SUV's limo's and private jet, hmmm? How much electricity was used to light everything up, etc.?

If they believe this nonsense, they sure don't show it with their example. Oh, wait its not about them, its about ME daring to think on my own and drive whatever the Hell I want!

Let us protect the Earth, but do it based on intelligensce and reason, not junk science and emotionally driven, politically backed concensus.




Excellent reply Magister. It is easy to control the herd if you make them fearful (over any issue) from gun control to yes, Global Warming. What many do not understand is those big wigs championing this whole GW BS are not interested in our welfare, let alone the welfare of innocent animals. This is a control issue pure and simple meant to enslave others by fear. Dig deeper and one will certainly always find MONEY as a motivating factor behind the lies that are being spoon fed to the herd.

Thinking outside of the box is not only wise but is also essential in maintaining freedom. When one does not look ahead of them (and behind them Historically speaking), it is often easy to miss the 'big picture' by not thinking 'what comes next' and what has been stripped away from Me? My car? Do I now have to car-pool? How convenient that would be. Now you know who I'm with and where I'm going at all times. (No I'm not going to get into some big diatribe about government or conspiracy theories) but I am one who does understand that not everything our government tells us is for our own good. There are usually other motives behind their concern for our 'well being' and that is.... THEIR well being.



PS: I also notice that these big wig jokers don't want to let go of their own personal 'string of lights'.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#221527 - 02/13/07 11:04 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
garfield Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Carcosa
Mankind couldn`t destroy the Planet, mankind could destroy itself. You can`t get millions of people to "save the nature". Mankind is and ever was a cancer-virus to this planet. Lay back and enjoy the show. Another species in the future can probably do it better.
_________________________
"Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac"-Henry Kissinger
“No one will improve your lot if you do not yourself.”-Bertolt Brecht

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#221528 - 02/13/07 11:20 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8876
My Third Side perspective on global warming.

Let's assume (just for fun) that in fact that human activity is indeed causing deleterious effects on the climate, and that these effects are severe and longterm.

So what?

Really, so what?

My asking this question - "So what?" - is meant to elicit the next obvious question, "What should I do about it?".

Not - "What should "we" do about it?"

Dear reader, you are (I will assume) a Satanist.

You are not a group. You do not think in terms of group actions.

You don't fall into that trap.

Having gotten that, it's time to crunch the numbers.

By that I mean, never forget your realistic ability to influence the course of events socially, technologically, and politically, on a global scale, given that you are one individual out of six billion.

Hint: it's zero, or very nearly so.

Is there anything you can do that will alter the course of events, global climate wise, regardless of whether or not the Enviros are completely right, or completely full of shit?

No.

The War Between The Enviros and Whoever They Think The Enemy Is will go on to it's conclusion unaltered by your actions.

The climate of the planet will be whatever it will be unaltered by your actions.

Just an example: just one megavolcano in Indonesia "deciding" to belch sulfur compounds into the air for an "additional" 1/1000th of a second longer than it "would have", will cancel all the greenhouse gas reducing efforts you and all your descendants will ever make.

And a counter-example: just one profit-motivated technological breakthrough in some corporate lab somewhere will outweigh all the greenhouse gas reducing efforts you and all your descendants will ever make by a factor of millions.

There are a vast number of natural factors that can and will influence global climate, either towards warming OR cooling, that will continue to be active, regardless of the silly herd pro and anti this or that of the moment.

Your "job" as a Satanist is to protect yourself and your loved ones.

Climate change occurs slowly, relative to your life span.

My best understanding of the phenomenon, (regardless of human or natural genesis), is that, if warming is the direction, historical weather patterns for a particular area will tend to become more severe.

If an area is subject to tornados, expect more of them.

If an area is subject to droughts, expect worse droughts.

If an area is subject to flooding, expect worse floods.

If an area is subject to cold winters, expect colder winters.

This is a function of more energy being inputted into a quasi-closed system - whatever local events normally occur will simply have more energy available.

It will not and cannot manifest as everyplace simply getting warmer uniformly. If you squeeze a water balloon in one place, tension will increase in one area and decrease in another. This metaphor itself is too simplistic to be of any use, except to counteract the supersloppy thinking of "if it's getting warmer, then why is "X" place on the globe getting colder?"

That's just dumb thinking indicative of zero study of planetary climatology.

Bottom line is that it is a waste of time to:

1. Worry about it.
2. Fight it.
3. Fight those who are fighting it.
4. Argue about who is right or wrong about it.
5. Construct elaborate conspiracy theories about either corporations, governments, or environmental groups.

The six billion people in the world, with their varied and conflicting agendas, will continue to seek their own interests, and that will result in whatever it's going to result in, and you and I have absolutely zero ability to affect the ultimate outcome.

What is in your power to affect is your choices of where you and your family live physically, and the particular sphere of economic activity you engage in.

And, what is in your power to affect is to stay on top of sciences current best guesses as to decades long patterns of climate change where you live or are planning to live (remember, we no longer care whether or not it's humans causing it or the Keebler Elves!), and integrate that information ino your personal plans.


Edited by Daark (04/19/07 03:00 PM)

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#221529 - 02/13/07 11:22 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Quaark]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Exactly!
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#221530 - 02/13/07 11:38 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Quaark]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Brilliant...
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#221531 - 02/13/07 03:16 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Minus]
Chess Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 1473
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Quote:

Gas emissions from volcanoes are a natural contributor to acid rain. Volcanic activity releases about 130 to 230 teragrams (145 million to 255 million short tons) of carbon dioxide each year.
...
I realize there are no comparisons in this article dealing with the negative effects as compared to human-created effects





You don't feel that's important information to have in a discussion like this?

I hear this "volcanos are worse than humans will ever be" thing from time to time. Well, let's check it out and look at the actual numbers. Let's consider carbon dioxide only, and I'll use as dry an information source as I can find -- the official US government published figures from the USGS and the DOE.

Your figure for annual volcanic CO2 emissions matches the number given by the US Geological Survey. For the sake of argument, let's take the very top end of that estimate -- 230 teragrams, or 2.3e11 kg.

And as for man-made CO2 emissions? Let's consider only fossil fuel consumption, since that's what gets the most press these days. The US Department of Energy provides official numbers on this. The world total for 2004 is just over 27 billion metric tons -- that is, 2.7e13 kg.

2.7e13 / 2.3e11 = 117.4

Ergo, in an average year, fossil fuel combustion emits more than a hundred times the CO2 of every volcano on Earth combined. Don't believe it? Then dispute my source numbers or find a problem with my math.

Please note that I'm not "advocating" squat. I don't even consider myself an environmentalist, since the very same math will point up the sheer futility of most individual "save the Earth" actions. But I get annoyed when people try to hide behind this volcano thing. The atmospheric CO2 concentration is not a matter for debate. It's there. It's rising. People are causing it. It's very simple math. (Predictions of the exact consequences of this fact are on shakier ground, or course.)

What is so horrible about admitting that human activity has had an unintended side effect? (It certainly wouldn't be the first time it's happened.) So our species has some messy habits. Fine. Accept it and go from there.

-Chess

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#221532 - 02/13/07 03:24 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Chess]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8876
CO2 is far from the only:

1. Actor in climate change
2. Climate change relevant component of volcanic emissions.

Additionally, there's nothing to prevent future emissions from supervolcanoes to alter the orders of magnitude you've quoted re just CO2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supervolcano

See, if we stick to science and avoid polemics (a strategy of which I approve), it quickly gets so complex we'd both have to be scientists with supercomputers for this dialogue to be meaningful anyway.



PS The CO2 feedback loop caused by the thawing of the peat in the Siberian tundra permafrost makes all this moot anyway.



Edited by Daark (02/13/07 03:26 PM)
_________________________
T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#221533 - 02/13/07 03:59 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Chess]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
CO2 emissions are only part of it. Did you see all the other effects these volcanic eruptions cause?

Not to mention the fact that, while man-made sources may produce more in a year than every volcano on earth, how many more years have volcanoes existed than man and his ability to even generate these emissions? I believe the volcanoes win this battle.

If the earth is going to change, the earth will do the changing far more effectively than we. We are simply a virus with sunglasses.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#221534 - 02/13/07 04:08 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Minus]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
Quote:

If the earth is going to change, the earth will do the changing far more effectively than we.




Such as the naturally occurring glacial and interglacial periods. Unless early man had a hand in these too?

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#221535 - 02/13/07 04:30 PM Thank you! [Re: Quaark]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12579
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Now I do not have to write another word here.

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#221536 - 02/13/07 04:34 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Phineas]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12579
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I like your answer as well as Daark's (above).

You are looking at the politics and he is looking at the personal.

Interesting how both result in the same view, isn't it?

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#221540 - 02/13/07 06:32 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Quaark]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
You Sir, are a brilliant man.

Your reply here is just another example of why I hold you in high regard.

VERY well said; I firmly concur with your perspective on this.


HS!
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#221542 - 02/13/07 07:02 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Wolf Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 194
Loc: The Netherlands
My apologies for not having read all [up to now] 57 replies to this topic if this one already was included somewhere. I am not going to 'confess' to you nor anyone else into which degree environmental issues affect my behavior to gain a "good guy badge" - I just say that I take responsibility for my own actions and behavior, and have been doing so from the early years of environmental warning reports on, early seventies, coming of age & awareness. You sure know about your ecological footstep - how big is yours? Could you diminish it still? DO IT!
Do you drive a car or travel by plane? Do you eat meat? What kinda meat? Do you eat fish? Have you plastic materials in your house? Do you have offspring?
I know "active" vegetarians who make me wanna kill and eat raw meat and "environmentalists" who make me wanna sink oil ships at the beaches of Europe. It's the way people like you, sorry to say, try to staple the burden of the entire world population upon each and every single shoulder - hammer it in! - that gets me really angry.
Being alive & consuming means affecting the environment. If you really want to get rid of your guild you should turn to the Church of Euthanasia and follow their instructions: "Save the planet, kill yourself". They can help you do it environment-friendly & strictly vegetarian. If you donate your body to the Body Farm or leave it out in the open for the vultures, you will most certainly have done the best you can to save the planet as far as YOUR influence reaches.
To each his own.

Edit: PS - I think it was Daark who mentioned that warnings before were about the new ice age to come and how we would all freeze to death. Mink industry feasted but now we have global warming. Gilette will not fail on profits yet. I live in an area that is supposedly to be surrounded by water in the near future. Recycle? Bio-energy? The Earth will survive and maybe humankind will as well, as it has been remarkably resistant to just about any circumstance available. That does not mean I'm not concerned about the planet as a whole. Au contraire. But it's my very own footstep I care about and nothing else is of my own influence nor responsibility. And if water comes, I will defend my property to the end - if I have not moved to some less populated area by then.


Edited by Wolf (02/13/07 07:47 PM)

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#221543 - 02/13/07 07:42 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Quaark]
Chess Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 1473
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Quote:

CO2 is far from the only:

1. Actor in climate change
2. Climate change relevant component of volcanic emissions.




Very true.

Quote:

Additionally, there's nothing to prevent future emissions from supervolcanoes to alter the orders of magnitude you've quoted re just CO2.




Also true, but unless there's a super-eruption imminent, it seems beside the point. I mean, there's nothing to prevent a tornado from making a huge mess of my house, in the process of knocking the entire thing down (and statistically speaking, a tornado MUST inevitably hit right here, sooner or later). But I still vacuum the living room rug.

Oh, and to Minus -- you're right, I zeroed in on CO2 only, since it's one of the biggest factors, and the numbers are readily available and easily comparable. But I've looked into the issue and arrived at the conclusion that yes, in recent centuries humanity has upset a lot of very old balances. Precisely what that may mean for the future remains to be seen. We might be in for a ride, but I really doubt we're Doomed. (By the way, I also hope I didn't come off as too argumentative -- I really have no problem with the majority position that's formed here, but the "hey, volcanoes are worse than we are" tactic gets on my nerves, because at least on the timescale we're concerned with... no, they really aren't.)

-Chess

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#221544 - 02/13/07 08:14 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Chess]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
Quote:

By the way, I also hope I didn't come off as too argumentative -- I really have no problem with the majority position that's formed here...




You will never offend me with your logic. You are a very smart individual.

Quote:

...the "hey, volcanoes are worse than we are" tactic gets on my nerves, because at least on the timescale we're concerned with... no, they really aren't.




On the timescale I'm concerned with, neither scare me.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#221545 - 02/13/07 09:14 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: TrojZyr]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
How commendable, your home, auto and everything else you do in your life to be ecologically friendly.

Now if you can convince every hypocrite on the left to do the same, starting with the leadership of the Democrat party..... May I suggest you begin with Ted Kennedy? He blocked wind power turbines from being erected in his swanky Massachoochoo neighborhood because "They would ruin the view". His words.

Yes, the right has down played this. And bully for them. The environmental movement is nothing more than the repository of the old communist guard from the 60's, those who espouse the idea of total government control of our lives.

So oil and coal have limited lifespans. So what doesn't? Is the Sun going to be around forever? Sure, I am all for developing new fuels, etc. But only when it is driven by science that in a free market, not by emotionalism and politics.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#221547 - 02/13/07 11:02 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Phineas]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>So oil and coal have limited lifespans. So what doesn't? Is the Sun going to be around forever? Sure, I am all for developing new fuels, etc. But only when it is driven by science that in a free market, not by emotionalism and politics.

That is so refreshing to hear. In fact most of the opinions here are refreshing. I usually get the same old argument of "save the world."
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#221548 - 02/13/07 11:26 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I always feel it best to play it safe when it comes to the environment. This isn't because I'm some crazy left wing liberal who wants to save the whales and prevent baby seals from getting clubbed. I really don't give a shit. Nothing human beings do can destroy the earth. No matter how many species we kill more will evolve. Even in a mass nuclear war microbes would survive and eventually evolve into higher forms. What does concern me is the fact that human beings can make the world uninhabitable for human beings. That's not very good for me personally and so I'm willing to do whatever it takes to prevent that from happening or at least slow it down as much as possible.

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#221549 - 02/14/07 01:21 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Phineas]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Ah, but when the sun goes out, everything iin the vicinity will go out with it. Our lives don't actually depend upon coal and oil, per se, so there's a difference, because there's still hope there.

My hope is that people who are severely ecologically un-sound will be seen as being as un-hip and un-with it as those who are racist or sexist, or at least, as out of the loop as those who wear hot pants and listen to 8 tracks. Hopefully, some bright people besides myself will think to market being "green" in terms of being progressive, efficient, and hip, not just dourly "morally straight."

The "Environmental Movement" is about Communism, anti-Capitalism, and Marxism? Sure. I've witnessed that myself.

But, to draw a distinction, environmentalism certainly isn't always about that. I'm just a fan of biodiversity and nature, myself.

And, as long as people get the job done properly, I don't care if it's done for money, emotionalism, politics, fear of fines, fear of being seen as uncool, or pragmatism. I do care if a particular motive or reaction is likely to make people more likely to screw up, naturally.

I also take satisfaction in not being a hypocrite, as much as possible. So, I don't court the delusion of being able to save the planet by myself, you see, I just enjoy putting my own money where my mouth is, and walking my own talk as much as humanly possible.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#221550 - 02/14/07 02:04 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: reprobate]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

So I asked: Are you really asking us for our opinion, or are you giving your own?




Both, so as to compare. I suspected most would not feel the way I did, and wanted to know why. Now I know why; it was a political issue. For me my problem is solved and I feel great. I did not mean to argue a political issue, I did not initially recognise it as such.
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221551 - 02/14/07 06:55 AM FINALLY [Re: Evil_Eve]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

What many do not understand is those big wigs championing this whole GW BS are not interested in our welfare, let alone the welfare of innocent animals. This is a control issue pure and simple meant to enslave others by fear. Dig deeper and one will certainly always find MONEY as a motivating factor behind the lies that are being spoon fed to the herd.




I did not realise that a 'fact of science' I have taken as truth since a child (global warming) could have been another propagated herd control mechanism. Again, disappointing but, I am not surprised.

Despite the frustration my initial rant may have caused for any members here, I am very glad to have posted this topic, had the privilege to read all your responses, and to have another blindfold lifted. A blindfold I already thought was gone.

HOW on earth did I imagine that MY stance on a political issue (environmental responsibility) should be the stance of Satanism on it??? well..

I thought that my STANCE on the topic was as a RESULT of my interpritation of Satanism.

Not so. Here it is:

Like many others here I was subjected to the brainwashing of a white-light religion. As I have written in the past, this brainwashing hardwired Xian lies, attitudes and reactive behaviours like cancers in my personality and perspective (as described in TSB pp. 32). These cancers can only be dug out once they are recognised as such.

After taking on Satanism as a religion, I took on the "responsiblilty to the responsible" without first effectively descarding my brainwashed responsiblity for others. Whilst increasing the responsiblity I felt for myself and everything in my life, I did not see the cancer of 'responsiblity for others' still present.

I have always mused over environmental responsibility, only recently turning full attention to it; wanting to decide how I felt about it. I started to feel a great responsibility weighing. This worried me. I was perplexed. Why did I feel this.

I did not realise until now that I was still enslaved by a herd control mechansim - still feeling responsibility for others as well as myself.

Fortunately thanks to the intelligence, Satanic gut reactions, and strong words of the members of LttD who replied, I realised there was still a monkey on my back. A shit of a monkey called 'responsibility to others'. No wonder I wasn't getting any bananas.

I am now in a great moment of joy, strength and clarity. This pathetic cancer of christianity has been with me for much too long! Finally the cause of discomfort has been identifed, and cut out!

Thankyou!!!

HAIL SATAN!!!
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221552 - 02/14/07 08:14 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Discipline]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
Thank you!

People are willing to do ANYTHING to save the Earth - except take a science class!
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#221553 - 02/14/07 08:19 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Phineas]
Danny Mc. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2143
Loc: Taxationland
Magister, 6+ billion can't be wrong.
_________________________
"To be born into this world a sentient, self-conscious and reasoning being, surrounded by inexhaustible glories in Nature, which we may comprehend, possess,enjoy; to be able to rise on the wings of a lofty imagination; to be able to get glimpses of the ideally perfect; to apprehend the Divine; it is to the development and enjoyment of these high powers that the young man is invited. How dare he refuse to qualify himself by the most perfect training of all his powers." Lyman J. Gage 1910


"Follow Me!", John M. (Delta).

"I've learned that you shouldn't compare yourself to others - they are more screwed up than you think." Something Magistra Isabel posted. laugh

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#221555 - 02/14/07 08:31 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Okay, I understand. Sorry for my hasty judgment.
_________________________
reprobate

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#221557 - 02/14/07 06:20 PM Re: FINALLY [Re: Babydoll]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Global Warming is happening.

That's a fact.

What isn't said, is that Global Warming happens in cycles, those cycles are called 'interglacial periods'. In fact, the Holocene Maximum was much 'hotter' than the current Global Warming "crisis."

So the main issue isn't whether or not Global Warming is a lie, but whether or not alarmists are motivated by reasons other than sound science and history. The evidence of that speaks for itself and can be easily found.

This debate didn't really start heating up on a public level until Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" hit theaters. It's no secret that this movie was something of a sensationalist exploit.

I would recommend that you move slower when changing positions, lest you overlook something in your haste to 'hop the fence' so to speak.

Of course, this topic is really only fun for titillating conversation, in my opinion.

As for action, do what best serves you. And I would also suggest that you keep what Mr. Daark has posited, firmly in the back of your mind, to save yourself needless headaches.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#221558 - 02/14/07 09:11 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
Isabel23 Offline
CoS Magistra

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 2041
Honey, you need to work on your BS detector! ( Don't we all!)

Mr Virus 9, in my experience, is a reasonably reliable source of information.

However, he could be wrong.

If something is really important to you, don't take anyone's word for it. Always check your facts. Use multiple sources of information.

Someone said the binman claimed that recycling was a sham. I have an uncle who claimed that also. The only way you will know for sure, especially since it varies from area to area, is to actually check it out for yourself.

Further warning -- don't take the bureaucrat's assurances at face value. Go look for yourself, ask those working on the ground, so to speak.

Always follow the money. If something doesn't make sense, look where the money comes and goes. If any level of government is involved (and where isn't it?), you can count on the money angle being particularly convoluted.

As an example, for years I was baffled as to why the power lines were rarely buried, and instead were hung from power poles, resulting in blackouts when some big storm came through. Not of utmost importance to me, but an occasional inconvenience. It turns out that this is an agreement between the local government and the union for the linemen. If the lines are buried, they don't need so many linemen. (This is known as featherbedding.)

When it comes to government sponsored good guy campaigns, you have to be really cynical -- look below the surface rhetoric to find out what they really are up to. Often it's just polishing their Good Guy badges, usually at your expense.
_________________________
Isabel
CoS Magistra

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#221559 - 02/14/07 09:25 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Isabel23]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>As an example, for years I was baffled as to why the power lines were rarely buried, and instead were hung from power poles, resulting in blackouts when some big storm came through. Not of utmost importance to me, but an occasional inconvenience. It turns out that this is an agreement between the local government and the union for the linemen. If the lines are buried, they don't need so many linemen. (This is known as featherbedding.)

I actually heard this from a lineman himself when I was trying to become one.

There are a lot of cities outside of the US that don't have power lines crowding their skies. They are just so much prettier.

It is also a lot cheaper for the power companies to use less insulated lines which cause power drains. How do they make up for it? Produce more power to drive that current. Now, I am not sure if they actually charge their costumers for this resistance drainage, but I have heard from some that they do. I should look into it.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#221560 - 02/14/07 09:29 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Discipline]
Isabel23 Offline
CoS Magistra

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 2041


I wouldn't be surprised if this practice were quite common.

I didn't know about the resistance thing. Makes sense, and of course they would charge the customers.

If you really do get confirmation, I would be amused to know.
_________________________
Isabel
CoS Magistra

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#221561 - 02/15/07 03:24 AM Re: FINALLY [Re: Poetaster]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

This debate didn't really start heating up on a public level until Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" hit theaters. It's no secret that this movie was something of a sensationalist exploit.




Maybe so in America. Here (Australia), unless you'd seen Al Gore's movie, it was harder to pick it as a tool of politics (at least for me, who doesn't know politics unless its coming out of a politicians mouth).

Our politicians weren't really talking about it, except for John Howard in one instance where he used it as an excuse to back his nuclear power stance. I don't watch the news that much though, but I was seeing Global Warming 'panic' on the news, and National Geographic channel, which just reinforced my opinion of it rather than making me question my opinion of it.

Quote:

I would recommend that you move slower when changing positions, lest you overlook something in your haste to 'hop the fence' so to speak.




Could you clarify this?
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221562 - 02/15/07 03:39 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Isabel23]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Honey, you need to work on your BS detector!




Yep. Don't I know it. There's a book I'm trying to get a hold of, it was recently discussed here on LttD. It should help me learn to spot the BS.
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221563 - 02/15/07 04:16 AM Re: FINALLY [Re: Babydoll]
Azazil Offline


Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Constantinapolis (İSTANBU...
I agree with you. Something must be done before its too late.
And i believe that big powers of world are spending some of their power on that problem because without Mother Earth they are nothing...
_________________________
Discover and conceive the secret wealth And pass it unto your breed Become your own congregation Measure the sovereignty of it's invigoration (Dimmu Borgir-Progenies of great apocalypse)

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#221564 - 02/15/07 04:50 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Quaark]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
Quote:

The six billion people in the world, with their varied and conflicting agendas, will continue to seek their own interests, and that will result in whatever it's going to result in, and you and I have absolutely zero ability to affect the ultimate outcome.






For better or worse this was the conclusion I came to as well.

In purely selfish terms any major changes will probably not happen in my lifetime, and if I'm brutally honest I couldn't really give a shit what happens after that!

Excellent post by the way!!
_________________________
www.vampiretemple.com

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#221565 - 02/15/07 05:54 AM Re: FINALLY [Re: Babydoll]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Essentially, you had a stance, you were questioned and some disagreed, you were told that Global Warming is a lie; automatically you changed to suit the concensus opinion.

Seemingly at least.

I simply think that you might want to research this topic a little more before agreeing with something that is actually quite wrong.

Global Warming happens. Man-made Global Warming is a slight exaggeration with political motivation.

It's important to know where the line is. But you won't know that line if you take everything you're told at face value, even this.

_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#221566 - 02/15/07 07:09 AM Re: FINALLY [Re: Poetaster]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
I stated that I did not realise that global warming could have been another propagated herd control mechanism. Maybe I should change that to man-made global warming. Either way, I was acknowledging the point that Evil_Eve had made.

I didn't state anywhere that I "now believe global warming is a lie".

At the moment as you say I have not properly researched global warming, and although it doesn't seem to sound good - I don't know enough.

The stance I had originally was that Satanists should be taking more responsibility for the environment (including global warming, land clearing, pollution...) but I did not realise I was arguing a political issue. I had formed this stance based on my interpritation of Satanism distorted by a feeling of "responsibility for others" which was still present from when I was fully christian.

I only realised I was carrying this burden of responsibility to others after I really thought about the reactions of the members here, my past christian brainwashing, and why I was feeling the way I did.

After I realised I was still feeling responsibility for others (another herd control mechanism!) I purged it out.

That is why I now feel happy and empowered, and understand the whole process I just went through.

Quote:

automatically you changed to suit the concensus opinion




I did not mean for it to appear that I was jumping the fence to fit in. From where I am I just feel that I've gotten an old habit (feeling responsibility to others) out of my system. After digging that out, I can understand things from what I believe now actually is a Satanic perspective.

Old habits die hard. This habit felt to me a monkey on my back. It was there I just didn't see it. As for the bananas I'm now enjoying, to me these bananas represent understanding something new.

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#221567 - 02/15/07 10:08 AM Re: FINALLY [Re: Babydoll]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Could you clarify this?

Meaning, most of the people who've spoken in this thread are strongly skeptical and even dismissive of the environmental movement, of environmentalism, and/or Global Warming. But, you shouldn't "hop the fence" and knee-jerkedly poo-poo environmentalism and Global Warming automatically, just because you wish to please Satanists, or suddenly assume that not believing there are any environmental problems worth looking at or showing concern for is the True Satanic Stance (tm).

There is a Satanic way to approach nature and the environment, rest assured, so all it not lost. The key is to check your data, hone your BS detector, never lose your intelligent enthusiasm, examine your motives and rationalizations, not get suckered into conforming to mass movements, not become Chicken Little, not trust the television news, always ask "Cui bono?", and not fall for the delusional, egotistical "you can save the world" silliness.

Rest assured, there are numerous Satanists who care passionately about the environment, and feel basically the same way you do where sentiments and emotions are concerned. (Though, they, too, would also probably caution you to be wise and shrewd.) Some of them just don't post upstairs a lot.

Basically, don't allow your parade to get rained on, if you were genuinely enjoying your parade and getting something good and productive out of it.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#221569 - 02/15/07 02:37 PM Re: FINALLY [Re: Azazil]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Currently humans are at the whim of "mother" Earth (or is that Nanny Earth?). However, if technology keeps rising on its repeated gradient then the Earth would not be necessary.

I feel that keeping a focus on what we do input into the Earth's system is wise for health reasons and for a more enjoyable environment. Yet, the fact is humans are by nature destructive animals that change and manipulate their surrounds.

That mother that everyone worships could care less about us. It could careless if we died, if we left, or even if we stayed.

In time humans could very well not need the Earth. Of course, until then we should not burn any bridges.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#221571 - 02/15/07 04:52 PM Re: FINALLY [Re: Babydoll]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Then I apologize for misconstruing this:

Quote:

I did not realise that a 'fact of science' I have taken as truth since a child (global warming) could have been another propagated herd control mechanism.




And yes, man-made Global Warming is exaggerated.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#221572 - 02/15/07 06:20 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
I just came in to add:

There are over 20 different species of banana.
_________________________
Hi.

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#221573 - 02/16/07 05:36 AM Re: FINALLY [Re: TrojZyr]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

But, you shouldn't "hop the fence" and knee-jerkedly poo-poo environmentalism and Global Warming automatically




I don't poo poo environmentalism. I simply poo poo that feeling of "responsibility to others" I had had for years, which in this case made me feel responsible for the state of the whole environment.

This past week I have cut out and disposed of this 'cancer', and along with it went a hell of a lot of guilt, and a feeling of duty to "save the planet".

Now I just feel responsible for ME instead.

Of course this is fence-hopping; one minute I want to take environmental responsibility for every-bloody-body, and now just for myself. But to me at least, I hopped that fence for a good reason, and I am really glad for it! I don't WANT to take responsibility for others anymore, WHAT is wrong with that???

I still LOVE the environment, nature, earth and especially animals. I will do what I want to help, but no more than I feel is really my individual responsibility (unless it makes me feel really great).

I want my energy in life to be well spent, and stressing over something that's out of my control, and not my responsibility, is a waste of energy that could be used for better, more satisfying pursuits.

Quote:

just because you wish to please Satanists




Although I appreciate and respect the input of many members here, I do not really care what they think of my online identity. I care more about what I think of myself, and about pleasing myself. In this case, it pleases me to rid myself of a massive unwarranted responsibility to others.

Quote:

or suddenly assume that not believing there are any environmental problems worth looking at or showing concern for is the True Satanic Stance (tm)




Where did I assume this? I am sure ALL the environmental problems are worth looking at for someone, somewhere, to some extent. I just no longer feel its MY duty, and this is NOT because I think that’s what a Satanic perspective would be. It is because I NO LONGER FEEL RESPONSIBLE for addressing the environmental impact of the whole human species. Call it Satanic or not, I don't care. I won't apologize for ridding myself of a massive guilt for something that wasn't my fault!

I do however apologise if I sound rude at the moment. I value every response I've received, as they've all helped me in this learning process.

I have achieved something really great over the past week. I have freed myself from a christian moral code that was still haunting me and affecting my perspective of what I should and shouldn't do, or feel. A result of this achievement for my stance on environmental responsibility, is that I only feel a duty to be environmentally responsible for ME.

It's as simple as that.
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221574 - 02/16/07 05:39 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: tovasshi]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
That's pretty cool! 20 species! Mind you, I will only take it as an interesting piece of trivia, untill I've read it on Wikepidea or some other reputable source

(BS detector switched on...)


_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221575 - 02/16/07 06:02 AM Re: FINALLY [Re: Poetaster]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
No worries!
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221576 - 02/16/07 10:52 AM Re: FINALLY [Re: Babydoll]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Don't worry, I didn't say you were assuming anything yet. I was just translating what the previous poster might have been implying.

Ultimately, I was encouraging you, not denigrating you.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#221577 - 02/16/07 08:20 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
_________________________
Hi.

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#221578 - 02/16/07 10:14 PM Re: FINALLY [Re: TrojZyr]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 863
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Don't worry, I didn't say you were assuming anything yet. I was just translating what the previous poster might have been implying.




Sorry then that I misinterprited you!

Quote:

Ultimately, I was encouraging you, not denigrating you.




I did read your advice, and am grateful that you took the time to give your kind encouragement.

HS!
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#221579 - 02/16/07 11:38 PM Re: FINALLY [Re: Babydoll]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
No problem, my pleasure.

I know how on-edge I get once I get into forum debates, so after a while, I'm suspicious of EVERYONE!

And, when I give advice or solace, I do sometimes sound like I'm making assumptions or providing criticism, so that's my fault.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#221580 - 02/27/07 03:09 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Quaark]
MarkArsenal Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/17/04
Posts: 226
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:

And, what is in your power to affect is to stay on top of sciences current best guesses as to decades long patterns of climate change where you live or are planning to live (remember, we no longer care whether or not it's humans causing it or the Keebler Elves!), and integrate that information ino your personal plans.




Of course, I've often found myself responding quite reflexively when people bemoan the potential that "75% of the human race lives in a place that will flood when sea levels rise", with: "So just move!"

Maybe I have an easier time with that idea than the average human lemming because I've moved 4 times in the past 5 years, and I've done so because I wanted to rather than for job or family reasons. I'm a locational opportunist, and I don't see why it's such a big deal to migrate when local conditions make it expedient.

Think of all the energy that many environmentalist individuals put into their quest for communion with the great verde in the sky: buying produce and food from 'organic' or 'sustainable' suppliers which is several times more expensive compared to the standard product, wasting days of their lives each year on (and waiting for) bad public transit when they can afford a cheap clunker of a car and the gas for it with about as much annual investment, campaigning, protesting and whining about environmental issues and donating to various organizations that spend most of their income on marketing and recruiting.

If you are part of a 'friends of the lesser spotted pork newt' organization or something similar, that's one thing: you have a specific agenda and an object of affection with which your individual efforts can usually yield identifiable results. But generalized environmentalism yeilds nothing for you personally and identifiably. You're wasting your energy. Use that energy instead to move to a more hospitable climate. Every time the climate gets too inconvenient due to your house blowing away or your office falling into a hole in the ground, just move.

Humans have been migrating for the purposes of finding more hospitable climates or better jobs or markets for thousands of years. Why is your house such a great place to live that you need to waste your energy on fruitless sacrifices to great green god in the sky and try to convince everyone you know to do the same? Why is it so difficult for you to move that you would rather march lemminglike in step with every other environmentalist without achieving anything concrete for your troubles? If you are too poor to move, or if you live in a polity which makes it too difficult, you have much bigger issues in your life than whether or not your coffee was shade-grown...
_________________________
markaresenal.com

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#221581 - 02/27/07 04:25 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: MarkArsenal]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
And then we have this!
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#221582 - 02/27/07 07:21 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Phineas]
MarkArsenal Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/17/04
Posts: 226
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Wow. And that doesn't even include his home in California (and I think he has a couple others).

Of course, I would probably be guzzling energy too if I had a slew of mansions and sat on some corporate boards, but then, I'm not whining about it...
_________________________
markaresenal.com

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#221583 - 02/27/07 09:00 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Phineas]
Nonesuch Offline


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 87
Loc: The Empire State
Al Gore's poor track record with the environment would be a PR disaster if people actually paid attention to stories like that one. But that would ruin the warm fuzzy feeling watching his movie gives people.

And I don't mean to drag more political figures into the discussion, but George W. Bush's ranch in Texas is apparently rather environmentally friendly! One article can be found on it here: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/02/is_george_bush.php

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#221584 - 02/27/07 11:33 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
New Sub Dives Crushing Depths

Scientists at the University of Washington have developed an autonomous underwater vehicle that can stay out to sea for up to a year and dive to depths of nearly 9,000 feet -- nearly three times deeper than the deepest-diving military submarines.

Known as Deepglider, the 71-inch long, 138-pound device is made of carbon fiber that can withstand the deep ocean's immense pressure. The energy-efficient, battery-powered glider carries sensors to measure oceanic conditions including salinity and temperature -- information that is key to understanding climate change. When the measurements are complete, Deepglider rises to the surface and transmits the data via satellite to onshore scientists.

Link
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#221585 - 02/27/07 11:39 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Babydoll]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
I want my next car to run on gas hydrate

The big energy companies have been doing research on this for a while.

Actually, I want a car that runs on whining hippies. They seem to be in great abundance.
_________________________




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#221586 - 02/28/07 01:11 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Phineas]
beetleguise Offline


Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 8
Quote:

Man-made global warming is a lie promulgated by the political left, specifically aimed at the US and capitalism. It is designed to cast guilty feelings on the herd in order to:



I am guessing the last science class you took was in high school at best. Despite the political benefits you see in global warming, global warming has been and continues to be augmented by human activity. While the earth's climate does change without human activity, as seen in the geological record, the rate at which it is changing now is unprecidented and is shown to be heavily influenced by green house gases. Whether or not this is being used to obtain more tax payers money or create a herd mentality does not change the fact that the global warming we are now experiences is and will continue to be caused by HUMAN ACTIVITY. You can label this as left-wing propagenda if it will help you sleep at night, but that would only promote your own stupidity.

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#221587 - 02/28/07 01:24 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: beetleguise]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

Quote:

Man-made global warming is a lie promulgated by the political left, specifically aimed at the US and capitalism. It is designed to cast guilty feelings on the herd in order to:



I am guessing the last science class you took was in high school at best. Despite the political benefits you see in global warming, global warming has been and continues to be augmented by human activity. While the earth's climate does change without human activity, as seen in the geological record, the rate at which it is changing now is unprecidented and is shown to be heavily influenced by green house gases. Whether or not this is being used to obtain more tax payers money or create a herd mentality does not change the fact that the global warming we are now experiences is and will continue to be caused by HUMAN ACTIVITY. You can label this as left-wing propagenda if it will help you sleep at night, but that would only promote your own stupidity.




Sorry, I just had to quote your statement. You're killing Me here!
In any event, I hope that your calling Magister Phineas 'stupid' and uneducated helps YOU sleep better at night. I am sure that he is most likely sleeping like a rock.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#221588 - 02/28/07 01:36 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Evil_Eve]
beetleguise Offline


Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 8
I have no intention of backpeddling or editing what I wrote. I feel strongly about what I wrote. A lack of understanding of a subject does not mean that the it is a lie. This is the case of Phinease post which I quoted. Looking at political leverages of the issue is very interesting and enlightening, but it DOES NOT mean it doesnt exist. I appreciate the skepticismm of Magister Phineas but at the same time I am question his understanding of global warming in terms of the science behind it. If this was not made clear by my previous post, I hope this clarifies it.

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#221589 - 02/28/07 02:19 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Evil_Eve]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
It's profile says it's location is UCLA. You'd think that at that level of education, professors would advise against the ad hominem approach in favor of using fact-based techniques to discuss issues.
_________________________




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#221590 - 02/28/07 02:29 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: RandomStranger]
beetleguise Offline


Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 8
Point taken, I apologize for not being more specific and failing to reference my sources. The information on all of my points is widely available and I am blameworthy for not including it in my original post. On the same note though, Magister Phineas claims that man-made global warming is a lie without offering further support. I have no problem being held to this standard but lets keep the playing field equal.

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#221591 - 02/28/07 02:37 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: beetleguise]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Not one thing I wrote implied you didn't cite your sources or were non-specific.
_________________________




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#221592 - 02/28/07 07:05 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: beetleguise]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
My degree is in chemistry with a minor in math.

Go back to sleep.

Hitting the Ignore hippie button in 5 - 4 - 3 - .....

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#221593 - 02/28/07 02:37 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: RandomStranger]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
You would be surprised what many universities pass off as credible.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

Top
#221594 - 02/28/07 05:59 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Discipline]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
I'm starting to pick up on that. It has caused me to note that the grading curve is actually an island of mediocrity and people try to claw their way to the apex.
_________________________




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#221595 - 02/28/07 07:08 PM Simple questions to consider. [Re: beetleguise]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12579
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
What if it turned out that you were, indeed, being lied to about this entire issue?

What if those who depend upon grants to fund their research were not as honest as you might assume?

What if politics and not science were behind many of these issues to cause people to assume they were true?

I have no intention of arguing this issue with anyone. Neither do I argue about abortion, HIV, politics in general nor even flogiston!

I will suggest that a critical part of evidence procedure in evaluating such issues involves being careful about data mining and inadequate sampling.

Those who wish to save the earth (and pin big green good guy badges on their horse manure eco-cars) are welcome to do so.

I always assume the world will not end.

I will take the bet of any fool who wishes to assume otherwise!

You cannot "save the earth".

You might be able to save yourself, though.

To me it is all a matter of numbers.

I am Number One.

Earth first.
We'll log the other planets later!

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#221596 - 02/28/07 07:13 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: RandomStranger]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
There is also an abundance of garbage
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#221597 - 02/28/07 08:41 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: gypsy]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Now if only we could get it to work on the other abundant type of garbage
_________________________




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#221598 - 02/28/07 09:01 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: RandomStranger]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Much like saving the world or trying to teach one 'respect or courtesy'... 'wishful thinking'.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


Top
#221599 - 02/28/07 09:48 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: RandomStranger]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Unfortunately, the technology to turn monkeys into usable energy hasn't arrived as of yet.
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#221600 - 03/01/07 09:20 AM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: RandomStranger]
Nonesuch Offline


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 87
Loc: The Empire State
I was shocked when I found out how much grades were curved for students in classes that are part of our pre-med track. Having a political agenda or curving grades in humanities or atmospheric science classes is bad enough, but these people are going to be doctors. I always thought that medical schools were less forgiving and figured that the less intelligent would be weeded out but as I just posted in another thread I cannot bring myself to assume that stupidity isn't also rewarded outside of the academic environment.

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#221601 - 03/01/07 01:46 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Nonesuch]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
You are correct! Mediocrity is rewarded with just enough bananas to keep the monkeys happy.

The professors that I've had have been delightfully rigid and unyielding in what they expect and thanks to them, I got to be surrounded by Smarter People as I progressed on.

I think that when people are just handed exceptional rewards for doing substandard work, it fogs their judgment. Just from personal experience, not one person I know who has a PhD is willing to accept that the "Sky is Falling" in the form of environMENTAL[ism].
_________________________




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#221602 - 03/01/07 03:35 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Nonesuch]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
It depends on the school, the deans, the professors, the reputation, and the tradition.

You can find schools that don't cut any slack or at least don't make life easy for a student. You usually know that before you even attend it.

I have seen classes that have averages which are low compared to other classes but it has to be taken in by context and the course. The subject matter could be a lot more conceptually complex or the mathematics was extremely detailed and required a full range of knowledge. In those cases I can see why they curve simply because the material takes years to master. There are certain times when they get a chemistry major to pass quantum physics with at least a C so he can actually get to his upper division classes and start learning what he needs to learn.

It is all relative.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#221603 - 03/01/07 04:33 PM Re: Satanism and Pollution [Re: Quaark]
VKat Offline


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 157
Loc: Northern California
Thank you for this post. Better late then never?

This I am sure is repeating some of what you have already said. I have never been able to understand how anyone could claim to understand the details of earth's weather. I am still waiting for the day that they can manage to predict the local weather correctly. It is something that is so dynamic that it can be called chaotic. How do they know that the earth would not be getting warmer right now if people did not exist?

Then take into consideration the path that the earth takes around the sun, the moon, the oceans, volcanoes, etc… A lot of the environmentalist force factories to implement better hardware and procedures to prevent pollution. Even though it only amounts up to the pollution of ten SUV's. Funny how everyone looks at the large things and completely forgets how fast all the little things add up.

I struggle with this sometimes because I believe in being respectful of my surroundings. However I am a consumer and I am not going to feel guilty for it. I do still believe that there are some simple things that can be done to improve upon my life in general. When people go to extremes is when good thoughts go bad.

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