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#22612 - 01/22/04 07:31 PM Re: How do I know?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I first found out about the Church of Satan some seven or eight years ago now and at that time I did have several doubts. I doubted I'd ever be able to rake up the money to join and I doubted I'd ever be able to obtain a copy of any of Anton LaVey's books in Queensland, Australia.

So I just kept the principles of what I was able to find on the net in mind and went off and read everything else I could find about Satanism (as well as having some rather curious adventures along the way).

That I am here now, that I found a bookshop that could order in all of the books I wanted and that I have become a member... well maybe that says it all really

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#22613 - 01/22/04 07:54 PM Re: How do I know?
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11535
Loc: New England, USA
Although the notion may seem a little paradoxal here, doubt is generally a Satanic virtue. And I'm sure you know that The Satanic Bible says a few things on the subject of doubt. When I first maturely read the Satanic Bible, I felt such a compelling connection that I was very tempted to immediately adopt the label of "Satanist" and dive right in. But the natural doubter in me said "Well, wait a second. Is this too good to be true? Let's see if this is something that will still make sense a few weeks from now, and that I'm not caught up in some kind of beginner's sensationalism." I re-read the book several times, kept thinking about Satanism and what it would mean to take the title of "Satanist", and even braved alt.satanism back in those days.

>But what if I doubt in many years or maybe short time?
>Have the people here who have experience doubted?

Since taking on the title of Satanist, I haven't had any real doubt about that choice. I've certainly pondered it though, wondering "Is it possible that I'd change religions once again?" And my answer has always been "I don't see that happening, because I'd always know in the back of my mind that the god I'd be worshipping was still just some ego manifestation, or that I'd be practicing some other form of self-deceit. And I know that born-again experiences are all done in moments of desparation where self-responsibility is placed on somebody or something else." As they say, "the scales have fallen from my eyes".

Actually, this all reminds me of the chapter called "The God You Save May Be Yourself". You may want to re-read it as you think about this.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

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#22614 - 01/22/04 08:04 PM Re: How do I know? [Re: Bill_M]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for pointing this out Bill M, I was actually about to refer to the very same chapter myself but you beat me to it.
Doubt is indeed a Satanic virtue…

It also reminds me of the chapter ‘How To Be God’ (Or The Devil) in The Devils Notebook…

6) ‘Always harbor some doubt, even about yourself. The booby hatches are filled with megalomaniacs who are cocky sure of their own omnipotence. A modicum of self-doubt in the god business adds up to the sort of self-awareness most mortals lack’

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#22615 - 01/22/04 09:07 PM Re: How do I know?
BurningJayde Offline


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 174
Greetings, Umea. After reading your post, two things came to mind:

1. There is no rush in making the decision on whether or not you're a Satanist. Time will ultimately show/prove if you are. Unlike Christianity and such, Satanism does not speak of a heaven or hell that you'll go to based on whether you're one of them, or not. They really try to push and scare you into "giving your life to Christ so that you will go to Heaven tonight if you were to die."

2. I wouldn't worry too much about what other people think. Some have the audacity to tell you that you are unSatanic because you do "such and such." I tire of this bullshit on this forum. Beyond the basic tenets of Satanism, it is all subjective, all one's own opinion.

If you were considering affiliation with the Church of Satan, I would put that on hold until you're sure of where you stand, just for the sake of not spending $100 that could be used for other things. The CoS will still be there if and when you decide to join.


Give it time, Umea. There is no heaven or hell awaiting your final decision.


Edited by BurningJade (01/22/04 09:40 PM)

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#22616 - 01/22/04 10:02 PM Re: How do I know? [Re: BurningJayde]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
>>2. I wouldn't worry too much about what other people think. Some have the audacity to tell you that you are unSatanic because you do "such and such." I tire of this bullshit on this forum. Beyond the basic tenets of Satanism, it is all subjective, all one's own opinion. <<

Aye.

It's not permission to "be whatever", however. There are standards of conduct as outlined in The Satanic Bible, as BurningJade said. It's pretty easy to figure out if one takes the time to read and comprehend the material presented.

Opinions are never wrong, especially if they are your own.

Just remember, no matter how ascerbic you get toward the Herd, always remember that Satanism is about having fun, and making your life fun and satisfying, first and foremost. Permanently dour and truculent people don't have much fun, they are too busy being angry at things they either cannot control or change. And even if they could change those things, or ignore them, it generates far more sympathy to whine about it to others. Read: Psychic Vampire.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#22617 - 01/22/04 10:09 PM Re: How do I know?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Greetings.
Quote:

So I feel I am a Satanist.



Well, that sorta sums it up right there.
Quote:

But what if I doubt in many years or maybe short time?


It's my belief that one should question EVERYTHING! Even what one feels is right. If you have the drive to do some research, you will find your answers. Take nothing for face value, investigate, be inquisitive. Satanism is not about conforming to believing everything you read or hear, it's more about learning what works for you, and using that to better yourself beyond normal constraints.
As you said, you feel you are a Satanist, after reading TSB. Mayhaps you are. If you so choose, take this opportunity to better yourself. Should you find that the philosophy works for you, then you are ahead of many. If not, then do what makes you happy, and you can't go wrong.

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#22618 - 01/22/04 10:33 PM Re: How do I know? [Re: Felstorm]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Great posts from so many, including you.

Just one thing about standards. Wouldn't the ultimate Satanist go ahead and live her life in HER way maybe even discarding SOME of these principles even if no other Satanist acknowledged her as a Satanist?

I am not arguing about what is the definitions of the Satanist or challenging The Satanic Bible, but isn't there always a level higher? Isn't that what evolution is about? Isn't that true stratification?

As I say before I am new at this, but I would lobe to hear an answer here from a real Priest of Satan.

And thanks to those who encourage my questioning and not telling me i am not a satnist because I am posing questions.

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#22619 - 01/22/04 10:44 PM Re: How do I know?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't see why it should matter to you. Are you worried what others will think? Fuck the others, because you'll always be you. You should always love yourself no matter what you decide to call your religion or set of ideals and personal philosophies. If you agree with the Satanic Bible, realize that you hold the same ideas, and the idea of calling yourself a Satanist doesn't bother you, then go for it. It's a choice you make. The devil doesn't make anyone sign on the dotted line, it's a choice of free will.

Quote:

Is feeling that you are described perfectly in the Satanic bible enough to say I am a satanist?




That quote is why I asked: "Are you worried what others will think?" I make every personal choice based on what I feel is the right choice. If someone else doesn't think I'm a Satanist, I couldn't possibly care less what the hell they think. Just being a Satanist shouldn't measure my worth to others. If someone who actually matters decides to measure me, I make sure that the main points they consider are my personality, productivity, and ambition. I only divulge that I'm an atheist when I know that it can have a positive effect on how that person thinks of me. To put it plainly, my religion is none of anyone else's fucking business.

So to answer the question:
Yes. If it's good enough for you, then no one else has any room to argue because they don't own your feelings.

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#22620 - 01/22/04 10:54 PM Re: How do I know?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Great answer. Thank you. But English is not my first language so please try to see that when I say "enough to say I'm a Satanist" I was wondering about the definition itself.

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#22621 - 01/22/04 10:56 PM Re: How do I know?
Anonymous
Unregistered


You think like me, I think Yes, question everything!

That was great. Thanks!

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#22623 - 01/22/04 10:59 PM Re: How do I know? [Re: Bill_M]
Anonymous
Unregistered


You should write a book!

Yes, you understand what I was asking about very well, and you (and others) answered my question beautifully. This must be the best messageboard in the world.

And you are really, really handsome.

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#22624 - 01/22/04 11:00 PM Re: Easy. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes truth is undeniable but do we ever find it? If we did the philosophers would be out of a job!

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#22625 - 01/22/04 11:04 PM Re: How do I know?
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
>>Wouldn't the ultimate Satanist go ahead and live her life in HER way maybe even discarding SOME of these principles even if no other Satanist acknowledged her as a Satanist?<<

The way I understand it, as far as an individual's indulgences and aesthetic tastes goes it's an open ballpark.

But Dogma and Policy laid out by the CoS Heirarchy isn't something that is open to debate. I will speak for myself only, I completely agree with the entirety of Satanic tenets is because I have questioned each and every single one of them and found the logic and rationality behind them to be as close to perfection as possible. I don't feel compulsed to "change" or improve something that I have found to be flawless and sound personal philosophy.

One of the Reverends may be able to answer this question better, I can't speak for the Church.

This forum does not accurately represent Satanism. You may or may not gain mutual benefit from those here. In fact you may develop an extreme distaste for some individuals, but as Burning Jades signature states; One is expected to act like a Lady or Gentleman and display some self-control and professional composure at all times. Those that don't leave ass-prints on the "revolving door" as they are kicked out.

I find that Satanism is best represented by those people who act dignified and professional.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#22627 - 01/22/04 11:07 PM Re: How do I know? [Re: BurningJayde]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am so impressed with some of the people here. Thank you for your advice. Yes, I have been very excited after I having read the Satanic Bible, but I will take it easy. No rush. I'm not sure I need to join an organization anyway.

You are way cool. I say in profile I am here to learn and I see I can learn lots here.

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#22628 - 01/22/04 11:08 PM Re: Easy. [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Isn't that a dangerous attitude that can stagnate you? I think the german philosopher Nietzsche said that if a philosopher stops doubting he isn't a philosopher anymore. Or soemthing like that.

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