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#228660 - 03/23/07 12:48 PM Re: "respect"? [Re: Nemo]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
I just had a random thought.

I'm not much for bullfighting, either, and I'll even admit that rodeos don't always sit completely well with me, either.

But, there is perhaps one thing I can say about bullfighting--at least those poor people KNOW exactly where their free meat came from, and recognize that a bull died to feed them. (Whether they care or not is another matter.)

We in America are insulated from the deaths of so many animals that go into our steaks and burgers. It takes special effort to remember that one's chicken fingers were originally chickens.

No doubt that many of these slaughterhouses and factory farms are pretty crummy, and that many (though not all) food animals grow up in much worse circumstances than a bull who'll be in a bullfight.

In your opinion, how do you think Satanists should approach that issue, Magister? How do you approach it, if I can ask?

If we lived in a Satanic society, what would the parts of our society that involve animals look like?

Anyone else who wants to chime in is free to do so, of course.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#228661 - 03/23/07 01:06 PM Re: "respect"? [Re: TrojZyr]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
I simply do not give business to the places that treat their animals unkindly -- or give their cows growth hormones. The places that care for their animals, giving them more room and better food, see that this is good for business. As it's usually roughly the same in cost, when people know about it, they'll probably get that meat, instead.

Hopefully many people will do so, and other businesses not so gentle with their creatures will see they are losing customers, and change their ways.

Also, hopefully -- by being an aware shopper, I believe I am aiding in a revolution -- one where people don't pump their cows full of things to make them taste better or stick them in tiny, enclosed spaces right next door to the cows being slaughtered.

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#228662 - 03/23/07 01:09 PM How I approach it. [Re: TrojZyr]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12497
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
(1) I do not try to change the world.

(2) I only try to change my world.

If I read about someone beating puppies to death I do not form a protest (and I do not buy tickets to watch either).

If I see someone beating puppies to death in front of me, I will do something about it.

Bullfighting is a very popular "sport" in many parts of the world. This is outside of my control and I distance myself from such things. I filter out what I do not wish to experience whenever possible.

If someone communicates here that they advocate the torture of animals, I can then post why I disagree, how this is against the ethics of Satanism, and I can then exclude their posts from my vision by hitting the "Ignore this user" button on their profile.

I do not attempt to cover the earth with leather.

I wear shoes.

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#228663 - 03/23/07 01:16 PM Re: How I approach it. [Re: Nemo]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Think globally, act personally .

Or something like that.

I like the sound of "don't cover the world with leather, wear shoes."
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#228664 - 03/23/07 01:18 PM By the way... [Re: Nemo]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12497
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
We already do live in a "Satanic society".

It is up to the individual Satanist to recognize this fact and choose mastery over his own world rather than to enter into energy-wasting "mass movements".

We are realists.

We look to what can directly affect our own selfish experience.

We look to what we actually have direct control over.

Those who do not live so, still live in a "Satanic society" from my perspective.

This understanding is critical in my opinion.

It is at the core of choosing one's self as God.

I am God.

They are my minions ... whether they understand this or not.

This world is my Satanic society.

It always will be if I choose it to be so.

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#228665 - 03/23/07 04:11 PM Re: "respect"? [Re: TrojZyr]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
The poor conditions of meat producing animals are a sad byproduct of a large population. It can be cleaned up a bit but there is a limit to how clean it can become considering the demand and output of the meat industry. A large population requires more meat and it will be delivered quickly and messy.

One way to correct this by either decreasing the human population (nice idea but it is unrealistic) or to improve technology. If people would promote research you can soon have meat grown in labs without killing a single animal and it could even taste better. Yep, I am not making it up. It is being researched as we speak.

As for being disconnected from death, that is fine by me. I have seen plenty of death and I would like to avoid it as much as possible.

If people are too disconnected and ignorant to understand that one thing must die for another then there really is no helping those fools.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#228666 - 03/23/07 05:34 PM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: Nemo]
evildork Offline


Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Quote:

I would be more impressed if the matador faced an unharmed, unexhausted bull ... and without any weapons.





Much more impressive, yes, but I just want to point out (not necessarily to you, Nemo) that this type of thing is no less cruel. From my point of view, the most uncomforting aspect about any similar event is that the animal can't and wouldn't choose to participate.

If violence is what you're after, the only options you should even be able to imagine to consider are those that only involve willing (or deserving) humans.
_________________________
- EVILDORK

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#228667 - 03/23/07 05:54 PM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: evildork]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
"If violence is what you're after, the only options you should even be able to imagine to consider are those that only involve willing (or deserving) humans."

.....Ones that have chosen to throw away their rights as a civilized human beings and commit crimes against undeserving humans and other animals. Bringing back the Circus Maximus would be JUSTICE!, however we all know that would never happen under present circumstances, unfortunately.
HS!
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#228668 - 03/23/07 07:41 PM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: evildork]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12497
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

Quote:


I would be more impressed if the matador faced an unharmed, unexhausted bull ... and without any weapons.




Much more impressive, yes, but I just want to point out (not necessarily to you, Nemo) that this type of thing is no less cruel. From my point of view, the most uncomforting aspect about any similar event is that the animal can't and wouldn't choose to participate.




My point is that this won't happen.

If it does, the bull will win.

(And, yes, I am aware of Mas Oyama's old stunts).

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#228669 - 03/23/07 07:58 PM Re: Donations to the poor. [Re: Nemo]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I'm not saying that giving the meat to the poor makes it any more right. I was simply answering the question as to what is done with the meat.

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#228670 - 03/23/07 09:31 PM Re: Donations to the poor. [Re: ModernTantalus]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
"I was simply answering the question as to what is done with the meat."

The meat becomes their Good-guy badge. A justification for their actions.
HS!
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#228671 - 03/23/07 10:31 PM Re: Excuse me? [Re: Nemo]
zaxaf Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 394
Quote:



Racism is a poor substitute for intelligence.

Racism, animal cruelty, blood sacrifice and stupidity have no place in Satanism.




Nemo thank you for these words! This is why true Satanists are the ELITE of the ELITE! 99% of this wasteland called Earth is filled with the above mentioned .

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#228672 - 03/23/07 10:51 PM Re: By the way... [Re: Nemo]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Another brief off-topic question or two, Magister.

(I'm working on a personal project of sorts, where two points of view have to be in equal dialogue with each other, so I want to be able to represent both the "put leather on the world" and the "wear shoes" views with equal accuracy and fairness.)

How do you know when an issue is within or outside of your own sphere of influence? For example, the civil rights movement probably originally looked like a pipe dream, and the gay rights movement sometimes look similarly futile, but they have and will seemingly accomplish big things. If the people involved in these movements had been content to exist solely in their own sphere, they would've had to tolerate, presumably, not having certain rights and freedoms.

I think you've said something in the past about mass movements being futile, so I want to know more about that.

And, if we're sure that something absolutely is right---like treating animals well--or that something is absolutely wrong, how can we justify or explain not doing everything we can to fix the situation, especially since we say we care about animals and hate it when they suffer?

Is trying to change the world a waste of time because it can't be done, or shouldn't be done, or because the fruits aren't worth the effort expended?

Thanks in advance .
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#228673 - 03/23/07 11:09 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: c23]
JysusCryst Offline


Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Oklahoma
Quote:

Well, I'm not sure it's Satanic but it certainly isn't legal so it's pretty much out of the question...

Quote:

I'd like to put into my will that my body gets donated cannibals.




Will you ship out of the country? I might know a few people interested in giving you a try.




I don't believe it's illegal if they sign for it before hand, kind of like donating an organ. They're donating their meat. I'll have to research it. If it happens to be illegal in the USA I'll just travel to somewhere it is legal and try it!

Also, I'll be happy to ship my corpse out of country to feed to someone who wants to try the rare delicacy of human flesh!
_________________________
No love lost on hatred spent.

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#228674 - 03/24/07 11:44 AM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: Nemo]
YaeK Offline


Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 211
Loc: Portugal
Actually, in Portugal, they do have something like that. They don't kill the bull in the arena here. They do still use those stupid spears, it seems... (but no swords). I think it's the horsemen who use those.

But otherwise, they have either one man or groups of men facing the bull without any weapons or protection, and I believe their goal is to grab the animal and make it fall or so.

At the end, either the bull is taken to be killed with a professional butcher, like all others, for food; or it is sometimes healed and taken care of, then sent to pasture for breeding.

I'm not sure of the rules and details of it. Never been to any of those things myself.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if there is still one place in Portugal (Barrancos) where they still allow the bull to be killed, or not...

I certainly don't support the practice nonetheless. Or see any supposed "fun" in it. However, it's still often better in Portugal than it is in Spain.
_________________________
-YK-

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