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#228600 - 03/17/07 04:26 PM Bull Fought Back
Shade Offline
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Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
(I've never understood this "sport". I'm sure this happens alot more often than I'm aware of but I still felt a sense of justice and smiled after reading about this schmuck bullfighter.)

Matador's chances of fatherhood hurt by goring
Thu Mar 15, 9:10 AM

MADRID (Reuters) - If Spanish matador Fernando Cruz ever has children, he'll have doctors at the Valencia bullring to thank after he suffered a double goring.

Cruz, 25, is recovering in hospital after the second bull of Tuesday's corrida caught him in the upper thigh, throwing him into the air, and gored him in the groin once he hit the ground.

Newspapers reproduced the eye-watering bulletin issued by surgeons at the bullring after a two-hour operation and film of the incident was played on the main evening news.

"Fernando Cruz is suffering from two horn wounds of 25 centimeters in length each. One involves the fibers of the abductor muscle and dissects the femoral artery, the other involves the scrotal area and eviscerates both testicles."

Cruz was sitting up in his hospital bed on Wednesday. Astonishingly, he is expected to be back in action in around three weeks.

source
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#228601 - 03/17/07 04:39 PM The only thing I dig in a corrida [Re: Shade]
Assabrah Offline
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Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062


Bravo toro, bravo
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#228602 - 03/17/07 06:03 PM Re: The only thing I dig in a corrida [Re: Assabrah]
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Ya mess wit da bull...
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#228603 - 03/17/07 06:06 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
HellofallHells Offline
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Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
I always root for the bull.
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#228604 - 03/17/07 06:31 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
Maya Offline
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Another point for natural justice!

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#228605 - 03/17/07 07:22 PM Re: The only thing I dig in a corrida [Re: Assabrah]
Shade Offline
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Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Quote:

Bravo toro, bravo




Haha! Bravo! I love it!
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#228606 - 03/17/07 07:24 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: HellofallHells]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Quote:

I always root for the bull.




ME TOO! I've read stories of some pretty gruesome accidents and seen those "When Good Animals Go BAD" shows but the description of the injury in this one was too much to pass up.
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#228607 - 03/17/07 07:25 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Maya]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Quote:

Another point for natural justice!




Exactly! I cheered!
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#228608 - 03/17/07 08:47 PM Re: The only thing I dig in a corrida [Re: Assabrah]
Darkened Offline


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 19
Well, at least if he was curious about questioning his sexuality...
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#228609 - 03/17/07 08:51 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
Darkened Offline


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 19
Ha! I love these examples- the type where stupidity actually is painful
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#228610 - 03/17/07 09:00 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
Entity Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 1774
Loc: Avalon UK
Quote:

Astonishingly, he is expected to be back in action in around three weeks.




I'll wager that this is not the sort of action his sexual partner(s) might be interested in...
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#228611 - 03/17/07 09:09 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Entity]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Quote:

I'll wager that this is not the sort of action his sexual partner(s) might be interested in...




I am not betting against the odds - I think you are right!
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#228612 - 03/17/07 09:35 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
I have a friend that was invited to such a spectacle when visiting Spain. He found the abuse of an animal for entertainment to be disgusting, but out of courtesy for the people who invited him, he just sat there and said nothing. Until the moment the bull managed to catch the matador with a horn and hurl him up in the air. My friend stood up and cheered!

Everyone around him looked at him like he was a Martian.

And he was like… “What? Not everyone has to root for the same team!”
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#228613 - 03/18/07 11:14 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: HellofallHells]
redheadgrl Offline


Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 273
Me too!

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#228614 - 03/19/07 01:50 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
Noelia Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Spain
Well, this happens all the time although most injuries are not so severe...People that support bullfights use this as an excuse:

"-It´s a battle to death between the bullfighter and the bull-" (too bad the bull doesn´t get to choose whether he wants in or not!).

I don´t feel sorry for him, if you put yourself in front of a bull you should assume that something like this can happen to you!
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#228615 - 03/19/07 05:53 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
Mile_Highlander Offline


Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 224
I'm not what you would call an "animal lover", but I certainly would not support this kind of treatment of an animal. This so-called sport looks more like slow torture than a contest.

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#228616 - 03/19/07 06:11 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
gypsy Offline
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#228617 - 03/19/07 06:16 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: gypsy]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
AIEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

I had to watch that peeking through my fingers and eyes snapped shut half the time! But good to see the bull gets his day occasionally!
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"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

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#228618 - 03/19/07 06:53 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
gypsy Offline
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Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here

Quote:

had to watch that peeking through my fingers and eyes snapped shut half the time!




Open your eyes for this one...
Running of the bulls...
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#228619 - 03/20/07 06:08 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
JysusCryst Offline


Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Oklahoma
What is it they do with the bull after they kill it??? I've heard both that they eat it in a big festival, and that they leave it for the buzzards out somewhere.

While I'm not for the bullfights, I'm not exactly against it if they eat the bull afterwards. It is still always fun when the bull gets its revenge though!
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#228620 - 03/20/07 06:25 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: JysusCryst]
c23 Offline


Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Heaven Street, Europe.
I cannot imagine the meat being good after all that hassle. The best meat comes from "relaxed" animals. The ones that are snuffed sitting in a Lazy Boy enjoying Ernest Goes To Jail with a bit of Sprite Zero and popcorn.
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#228621 - 03/20/07 06:37 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: HellofallHells]
Evil_Eve Offline
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Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

I always root for the bull.




As do I. Anyone who partakes in this barbaric 'sport' deserves to be disembowled by a nice sharp set of horns.

What is that We say? HORNS UP! Indeed.
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#228622 - 03/20/07 06:38 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: c23]
JysusCryst Offline


Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Oklahoma
Quote:

I cannot imagine the meat being good after all that hassle. The best meat comes from "relaxed" animals. The ones that are snuffed sitting in a Lazy Boy enjoying Ernest Goes To Jail with a bit of Sprite Zero and popcorn.






That sounds an awful lot like my grandfather. I wonder if he'd make a good hamburger??? Lol.

Which leads me the the question, is it Satanic to be cannibalistic if the person being eaten wants to be??? After they die of course.
I'd like to put into my will that my body gets donated cannibals.

"Tonight's special is Fried Satanist served with salad and your choice of soup. The meal also includes a complimentary wine that you may choose from this list."
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#228623 - 03/21/07 03:42 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Mile_Highlander]
Torquemada Offline


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 211
Loc: Spain&UK
Well, well, well. I know many people hate bullfighting. I know many people consider it a barbaric and atrocious show. However, I beg to differ.

I personally like bullfighting.

The first time I was in “Las Ventas”, the main “Plaza de Toros” (bullfighting place or arena) of Madrid, I enjoyed it very much. I was drinking wine, smoking a big cigar (Fidel Castro size) and I had a very good time there. In fact, for several years I was a usual visitor of “Las Ventas”. I love “corridas”.

It is not a sport. It is an art. In fact, it is the only art in which the artist can be killed. It has happened several times. Several bullfighters have died from the wounds inflicted by the bull.

Many people say bullfighting is barbaric. I do not think so.


Bullfighting is a millenary tradition. You can like it or dislike it. However, it remains a very noble sport. If the bullfighter is being attacked by the bull, there is not a sniper from the police or private security to shoot the bull. The bull has some ways to defend himself. When you go to hunt you go with rifles. The hunters are so valiant¡¡¡¡¡

They are always at a safe distance, and protected by gunfire. I would like to see a hunter in Africa to go to hunt a lion with a sword and a red piece of clothe. It would be real fun. I know some black people went to hunt lions with spears. Bravo for them. That is noble indeed.

People say it is degrading for the animal. I do not think so. The bull has three options:

1. An eccentric millionaire can keep him alive.
2. He gets killed because his meat is going to be sold.
3. He can fight in a “corrida”.

Certainly, the bull has no choice. But their end is much better if they can fight instead of being killed peacefully and methodically by an electrical shock in a farm.

I prefer them to run, be brave, and try to catch the bullfighter. Who remembers the name of an animal sacrificed for eating?

Many people remember the names of the most valiant animals. They fought, they died with certain honour. People in the world of Toros respect very much the animal. They do not mock him. They fight with him following the rules of the tradition. Does the animal suffer? Yes. But also has the opportunity to give back. And sometimes the animal gives back. Sometimes the animal kills the other animal in human shape. I do not pity the bullfighter. He has chosen his job, and he knows what can happen to him.

I have heard some hunters express their disapproval about bullfighting. That sounds ironic to me. People who enjoy getting into a car and go to a forest with a rifle, and shoot some defenceless birds are cowards if you compare them with bullfighters. Has a bird any chance against pellets? Of course, they would not risk their precious lives. A bullfighter does risk voluntarily his own life, fighting with a furious beast of 600kg. The bird hunter, fox hunter, or whatever, comes back to his 4X4 perfectly safe. I say: COWARD.

They say bullfighting is degrading. What’s more degrading than going to a forest and kill with an expensive weapon an animal who can not defend himself? At least the Toro has a chance. I never heard of a fox hunter who got killed by the fox. I also never heard of hunters getting killed by birds. But I have heard of bullfighters being killed by Toros.

It is not a game, it is not barbaric. It is just a peculiar mixture of art and sport. I can understand the point of view of those who dislike bullfighting. But I wonder if they are also against hunting, death penalty, eating meat, fishing, etc?

When someone eats a lobster, and I do like them, the lobster is burnt alive in boiling water. Just for the fun of people eating in a table with candles, and wearing shoes made with babies of crocodile (Manolo Blahnik???). Furs of bison? What’s more degrading?

When you eat some fish, that fish was killed because someone put a thin cord with a little harpoon inside a river. Then, the fish suffers horribly having metallic wires in the throat, and finally dies from asphyxia in the bag of a guy who is happily with their children. They all look at the fish, they laugh, they are excited. The fish is an animal in agony. But that is politically correct. It is so cosy and lovely to go to a beautiful wood to suffocate fish with your granddad¡¡¡

I am not going to get radical or fundamentalist here. I am not such a person. I have exaggerated on purpose. I have been carried away by my passion, as I love bullfighting.

My point is: we should think better, there are many wrong things in life that we all do. It is easy to say that some things are barbaric. But if one thinks just a bit, one will realise that there are around us many more barbaric, degrading and scary things than bullfighting.

To sum up: you can like it, or not. I do like it.

By the way, I also have fun when the bull gets the ass of a bad bullfighter.

Best,

Torquemada

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#228624 - 03/21/07 05:41 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Torquemada]
Mile_Highlander Offline


Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 224
So tell me, Torq..... If the bull kills the fighter, does it get to leave the arena, or does it have to face another fighter?

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#228625 - 03/21/07 06:13 PM Re: Bull Fights are disgusting [Re: Torquemada]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
Keep the following rule in mind.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

As a Satanist I personally cannot approve the torture of an innocent animal.
This is not for food..but for folklore.
And the word 'attacked' is out of place in this case.
An animal got provoked, got beat-up and got drugged before they torture it in front of a sheering audience.
Let it almost bleed to death and cut off ears and tail while still alive.
I find it strange that you call yourself a Satanist and are in favor of bullfights, my two cents here.
This is a disgusting tradition that needs to end.
You want arena's and old traditions in Spain?..stop using innocent animals.
Start using murderers, dope dealers, child molesters and scum of the earth and let 'em fight in gladiator style. This makes more sense to me.
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#228626 - 03/21/07 06:14 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Mile_Highlander]
x9x Offline
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Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
Excellent question!
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#228627 - 03/21/07 09:31 PM A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: Torquemada]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I would be more impressed if the matador faced an unharmed, unexhausted bull ... and without any weapons.

What?

You mean he would almost always be killed outright if an unexhausted, unwounded bull actually attacked?

Ah yes.

Pretty boring.

Highly predictable.

The reality as it IS.

Just try to imagine the “entertainment” value of this scenario instead:

Idiot antagonizes living death.

Idiot dies.

Bring out the next idiot.


In modern times we generally assign “Darwin Awards” to such behavior - not "honor".

The Spanish bullfight stabs, cuts and exhausts the bull down to the level of the “elegant” primate who, with "grace" and "courage", sometimes still gets chopped down.

So the point of the bull fight is to see how bravely and gracefully the matador can move close to a still dangerous, but bleeding and exhausted animal?

I see the same old preconscious assumptions behind all this.

People afraid of their own mortality wish to see death “in the flesh”.

If the matador can bravely face death and live, then this symbolic contest will magically enable the audience member to somehow "defeat" death - by proxy?

Uh.

This never works however.

Blood sacrifice is a fundamental to the bull killings of Mithras (from which bullfighting stemmed) and is an integral part of the theology of Christianity (the shedding of Christ's blood for the remission of sins), but is hardly Satanic.

Curiously those who have actually faced uncontrolled violence and experienced death up front in their real lives (as in military action, for example) usually do not exhibit this desire and do not find such spectacles “entertaining”.

It is however sadistic and unnecessarily cruel.

Historically, the bullfights are what remain of the old Roman circus. That is a fascinating fact. It remains an atavistic piece of the past that shames the cultures that still practice it as public entertainment.

The herd enjoyed seeing violence and blood then as well.

Safely.

As “sport”.

From the stands.

However I see bullfighting as a cowardly sport in need of severe improvement:

Naked, weaponless single matador versus healthy, undamaged bull.

But the outcome would be obvious.

Generally your posts have been witty and interesting.

This one causes me to raise both of my eyebrows, however.

This religion is named “Satanism”, not “sadism”.

Just a reminder to any who might read this.

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#228628 - 03/21/07 10:43 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Torquemada]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Killing an animal for food is just a part of nature. One thing must die for another's survival. Food produced animals are killed quickly (unless it is for religious reasons).

Killing an animal to gain some "oohs" and "awes" is just plain vicious entertainment. You can cover a lot of ridiculous and sadistic things by simply concealing it under the disguise of honor and culture. But I don't buy it.

That is just my take on it.
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#228629 - 03/21/07 10:51 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Torquemada]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
Wrong.
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#228630 - 03/21/07 11:15 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Torquemada]
Svengali Offline
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Humans who torture animals for entertainment should be shot. I don't give a fuck about their idiotic "cultural traditions."

They should fight each other to the death instead... since they think they are such badasses.
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#228631 - 03/21/07 11:28 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Torquemada]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Just the other day I was considering American rodeos. Those country cowboys are always talking about how it is to tame the beast or to prove their courage.

I think it is idiotic. They piss the animal off in the first place and then go riding it around like they are drunk just to gain an adrenaline rush and to get the crowd to cheer. Wow, such brave assholes.

People who fool around with animals for kicks are morons. Did the animal ask for you to pester it in the first place? What other point does it serve to torture an animal other than for sadistic macho honor? Nothing!

Go play football or some other sport where all participants have consented.
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#228632 - 03/21/07 11:48 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Discipline]
DarkWater Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 784
Loc: SinCity
Quote:

Killing an animal for food is just a part of nature. One thing must die for another's survival. Food produced animals are killed quickly (unless it is for religious reasons).



Most of the time this is true.

To be clear, I find bullfighting abhorrent.
If possible, I would destroy any human that unjustifiably hurt a non-human animal.

Discipline, I agree with you.
I also applaud the thoughts of Magisters Nemo and Svengali. Just let ABZU and I have a shot at predicting the outcomes of these combats!

Hurting animals within the context we are speaking is despicable.

But, nature presents puzzles that add complexity to this discussion.

First, it appears that sometimes non-human animals kill for the sake of killing -- i.e., arguably, sometimes they commit murder. I've read an account and seen video of primates carrying out an attack on a disliked member of their group. A gang of about a dozen worked themselves into a frenzy, hunted down the victim, and beat him out of the trees. Their strikes and stomps did not stop until long after he was dead.

Second, it appears that sometimes animals play with their food before killing and eating it, and that this "play" could be describes as sadistic -- i.e., causing great, unnecessary, and prolonged suffering for the victim while providing some type of benefit for the aggressor. Apart from examples of cats hunting mice or dogs killing birds, I have in mind a video of killer whales toying with seals. (One example of this can be seen here.) The whale captures the seal and then tosses it into the air. Again and again the whale throws the seal skyward, sometimes sending the creature 40 or more feet into the air. This "play" goes on until the seal dies and is eaten or, for whatever reason, the whale prematurely ends the game by ingesting what is little more than a light snack.

I realize that these ideas speak anthropomorphically and that many think such speech is dubious at best (sometimes myself among them). Nonetheless, I bring up these examples and describe them as I have to suggest that nature has a "sadistic" side. With this in mind, humans sadistically toying with and then killing bulls is not so much an aberration of nature, but rather another example of animal behavior at its worst.


DarkWater

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#228633 - 03/21/07 11:59 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Svengali]
MagisterRose Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 2404
Quote:

Humans who torture animals for entertainment should be shot. I don't give a fuck about their idiotic "cultural traditions."

They should fight each other to the death instead... since they think they are such badasses




Now THAT'S entertainment.
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#228634 - 03/22/07 12:39 AM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: DarkWater]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Oh, I agree that murder and sadistic entertainment is not solely a human trait. It is a natural occurrence just like anything less. Criminal behavior is natural and so is rape, but that does not mean I have to agree with it. Death is natural and I fucking hate it.

Just because something is natural or universal throughout the animal kingdom does not suggest it is in the betterment of society or life itself. If everything that was natural was to be accepted then life would be pretty miserable.

Nature is cruel and unfair. However, humans have the ability to manipulate their environment for the better and I personally find sadistic behavior to be moronic and a waste of time.

I can watch my cat toy with a mouse all day long if I wanted too. But when my cat catches a mouse I will usually remove the little critter from my house. Now if my cat happens to kill the little guy I won't go and scold him for doing his job.

That is the way I see it and how I make my system work.

But I agree in context.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#228635 - 03/22/07 02:56 AM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Mile_Highlander]
Noelia Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Spain
As I understand it, if a bull kills a bullfighter it is set "free" and is left to roam the fields in the countryside to have sex with many cows to produce a strong offspring...(i guess that is not too bad of an outcome!)
_________________________
Si lo que tienes que decir no es mejor que el silencio, mejor no digas nada

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#228636 - 03/22/07 06:55 AM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Noelia]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

As I understand it, if a bull kills a bullfighter it is set "free" and is left to roam the fields in the countryside to have sex with many cows to produce a strong offspring...(i guess that is not too bad of an outcome!)




Wasn't the bull free to do that prior to being captured, beaten down, and then put into the ring?

What's the other alternative? What if he doesn't kill the bullfighter? Exactly.

There is NOTHING noble about Bull Fighting and NO ONE will ever convince Me that there is.

To Hell with all of them.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#228637 - 03/22/07 07:22 AM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Evil_Eve]
Noelia Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Spain
These bulls are not free before the corridas, they are raised specifically for this purpose, in any case I agree with you, bullfights are not noble but terrible affairs. However I must say that for most people in Spain killing a bull for fun is exactly the same as killing a cow for food...go figure!
_________________________
Si lo que tienes que decir no es mejor que el silencio, mejor no digas nada

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#228638 - 03/22/07 10:23 AM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Noelia]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
My idea of sport:

And now, thanks to Walt Disney, when I think of bull fighting, I principally think of;

_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#228639 - 03/22/07 11:50 AM Bankrupt Cultures [Re: Shade]
Marcato Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 273
Loc: Northern New England
This brings up one of my pet peeves: People that push the idea that every component of every society has some intrinsic cultural value.

There are a very few individuals who will admit that all cultures are not equal. Whether it’s Africans mutilating their daughter’s genitals, Muslim’s who think it’s their obligation to murder women who have been raped, or Spaniards trying to justify torturing bulls, the herd seems to think we need to be sensitive about condemning actions that are clearly counterproductive.

I’m glad to know there are a select few who know how to cut through the bullshit.
_________________________
I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction.
Ayn Rand


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#228640 - 03/22/07 01:13 PM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: Nemo]
Torquemada Offline


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 211
Loc: Spain&UK
Well, I have read carefully all the threads and I see that people have very solid arguments and reasons against bullfighting. I thank everybody for their excellent posts, arguments, and lines of reasoning.

Your post about the origins of bullfighting is very accurate. Bravo, Magister.

Yes, Noelia is right. If a bull kills the bullfighter, he gets a very good life. He will be set free to procreate and have descendants, and he will be treated as a king.


I went to my first “corrida” when I was 4 years old, and I was fascinated. Later, my grandfather gave me as a present the “cossio”. This is an encyclopaedia which contains everything about bullfighting. Later, I knew personally matadors, and befriended two of them, very well known. I have lived the “mystique” of bullfighting since I was young. I had the privilege of hearing the stories that Matadores told me. I always admired them. There is nothing about sadism in a true admirer of bullfighting.

However, I am convinced of the legitimacy of my opinions, and I will never change my mind with respect to bullfighting. This being said, I only can say that I am off this thread, because it is not my wish to seek confrontation or offend anyone. I will never mention this topic anymore, and I will keep my opinions for myself in this particular subject. I just do not want to engage in a Byzantine discussion with intelligent people who have made clear, valid and reasonable points. I am better off this thread, because bullfighting is very deeply ingrained in my mind as something good and honourable. I just can not be impartial, neutral, or objective.

This is a matter in which I only can speak with passion. It is not actually appropriate to discuss this here, and I regret to have brought the subject to the forum.

If someone felt offended by my opinions, I apologise.



Best,

Torquemada

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#228641 - 03/22/07 03:32 PM Sorry but no. [Re: Torquemada]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I speak only for myself here.

I must judge your values and find them anti-Satanic.

My communications to you are now at an end unless you do alter your judgment regarding animal sacrifice and sadism.

Unless and until then, good bye.

I have punched the "Ignore This User" button for your posts.

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#228642 - 03/22/07 03:59 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: JysusCryst]
c23 Offline


Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Heaven Street, Europe.
Well, I'm not sure it's Satanic but it certainly isn't legal so it's pretty much out of the question unless you're going for the throne of Manson.

Quote:

I'd like to put into my will that my body gets donated cannibals.


Will you ship out of the country? I might know a few people interested in giving you a try.
_________________________
"He has his father's eyes."

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#228643 - 03/22/07 04:00 PM Re: Sorry but no. [Re: Nemo]
Torquemada Offline


Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 211
Loc: Spain&UK
I find your reply just a bit extremist to say the least. However, I do not want to make any trouble here, so, there is no need to press the ignore button. I leave without resentment, and I will not come back. You know very well that you are de facto banning me with such an announcement.

You also know that Bullfighting is not the reason of your “attitude” towards me. However, it does not really matter.


It has been a pleasure to stay here and meet so many interesting people. I hope all goes well for everybody.

Good Bye to ALL

Best,

Torquemada

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#228644 - 03/22/07 04:15 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Discipline]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Exactly.

This is perhaps completely sentimental of me, but because humans wield so much relative power over animals, and because we are aware of the ethical and other issues and can make choices, I believe we can and should rise above simply abusing or killing animals just for sport, or out of mere convenience.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#228645 - 03/22/07 04:24 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Old_Pig]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1685
Loc: Denmark
Quote:

I have a friend that was invited to such a spectacle when visiting Spain. He found the abuse of an animal for entertainment to be disgusting, but out of courtesy for the people who invited him, he just sat there and said nothing. Until the moment the bull managed to catch the matador with a horn and hurl him up in the air. My friend stood up and cheered!

Everyone around him looked at him like he was a Martian.

And he was like… “What? Not everyone has to root for the same team!”




I wanted to share a story about my father here, but you just shared almost the same story, so I guess I can be a lazy cat here

I can say this very simple, my father did the same as your friend when he was on holiday many years ago, they had to sneak him out of the backdoor so to speak.

I hate it when people hurt animals like that, why can't some people understand that animals got feelings too.

I want to share this story about Dolphin Mary, but I can't find an update on this story, so if somebody can, then please post it, because I want to know how this beauty is doing

The story :

When the young dolphin was rescued from the Adriatic Sea, distressed and bruised, she was nurtured back to health by a dedicated trainer who took responsibility for her care.

Now the trainer is dead, the victim of a frenzied attack by her neighbour — and the dolphin, apparently, is dying of a broken heart.

Read the rest here : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1403428.ece

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#228646 - 03/22/07 04:30 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Svengali]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
Quote:

Humans who torture animals for entertainment should be shot. I don't give a fuck about their idiotic "cultural traditions."

They should fight each other to the death instead... since they think they are such badasses.




And that is why you're the man!

Can you imagine how limp someone's dick must be to need to publicly beat up a bovine to feel manly? Cultural tradition? I'd settle for some tapas and a print of Guernica.

Y~
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#228647 - 03/22/07 07:18 PM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: Nemo]
EDFS Offline


Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 3
Torquemada is not a Satanist and wit means shit. Still-born Christ worshippers will always think they have a point. I, myself, find it amusing and entertaining. This guy is amusing. As well as every other Spanish "scholars" in here.

I hate having Spain in my blood, I'll always go for Itallian instead.


Torquemada and all his Spinard crew not only approve of animal torture but they also believe equal opportunities should be given to everyone. Read these. This Torquemada is hilarious.Readhim in Essays. How about his partner in crime NICOELIA : "willingness to comunicate has more value that speaking any language".

I hate the Spanish to death.I hate it. Hate it. Their language makes me cringe!


POLITICAL CORRECTNESS BULLSHIT! FUCK YOUR DUMB CULTURE!

Iti unbelieaveble these people... patriotism... Jesus !

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#228648 - 03/22/07 07:29 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Torquemada]
EDFS Offline


Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 3
How can you rejoice in watching an animal without rational skills being tortured? You are the trash of the earth. I don't give a shit if your losers Spinard friends and family told you it was ok. I hate with all my guts Spanish people. You can't represent a culture as sick as this. You can't represent ANY "culture" sinceyou're an idiot.


Edited by EDFS (03/22/07 07:32 PM)

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#228649 - 03/22/07 07:35 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: EDFS]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6359
Screw it. You're out of here. Bye.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#228650 - 03/22/07 09:35 PM Excuse me? [Re: EDFS]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I personally know many Latin Americans many of whom came from the Spanish culture directly.

They are no better or worse than any other hominids on this planet.

Racism is a poor substitute for intelligence.

Racism, animal cruelty, blood sacrifice and stupidity have no place in Satanism.

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#228651 - 03/22/07 10:20 PM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: Nemo]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I wouldn't say he'd have to kill the bull with his bare hands. I mean, killing an unharmed, unexhausted bull with a sword is still quite a feat. I personally like the Portugese bullfighting. It takes more courage and is more fun. They don't actually kill the bull. Instead they grab the horns and tail and do acrobatics. I'm sure it's annoying as hell to the bull, but not actually harmful. It's very similar to the sort of bullfighting done by the ancient minoans. Using a healthy unharmed bull as an acrobatics partner... Now that takes balls!

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#228652 - 03/22/07 10:23 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: JysusCryst]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
My Spanish teacher in high school was from Spain. She said the meat from the bull is generally given out to the homeless and poor free of cost.

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#228653 - 03/22/07 10:28 PM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: Torquemada]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
Don't apologize for your views. Feel free to express them. A true intellectual takes all arguments and views on their own merits even if they disagree with them. I personally disagree with how bullfighting is currently done, but I can respect your past and history and why you'd enjoy it. Besides, where would Satanism be if LaVey decided to keep his mouth shut in order to avoid rocking the boat?

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#228654 - 03/22/07 10:46 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
This thread put sad in my happy.

I was unaware the bull was supposed to be killed in the end.

Now I know
_________________________
Hi.

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#228655 - 03/22/07 11:09 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: ModernTantalus]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
Quote:

My Spanish teacher in high school was from Spain. She said the meat from the bull is generally given out to the homeless and poor free of cost.




Even worse!
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#228656 - 03/23/07 02:41 AM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: Nemo]
torturedsoul Offline


Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Egypt
Quote:

I would be more impressed if the matador faced an unharmed, unexhausted bull ... and without any weapons.



I am against bull fight because I think that it is sick to attack without a reason.
But I also think that it is OK to exhaust your adversary and use every available weapon against him.
I never renounce to my strongest weapons only because my adversary is inferior, and to me, this seems fair.

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#228657 - 03/23/07 06:51 AM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: EDFS]
Noelia Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Spain
NICOELIA, the evil accomplice of Torquemada !!!now that is an original nickname!!!hahaha!
_________________________
Si lo que tienes que decir no es mejor que el silencio, mejor no digas nada

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#228658 - 03/23/07 12:35 PM Re: "respect"? [Re: ModernTantalus]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

but I can respect your past and history and why you'd enjoy it.




I personally have no respect for those who advocate the torture of animals.

None at all.

Those who think that respecting animal torture as a "sport" is being broad-minded or "intellectual" need to get a dictionary.

For what Anton LaVey had to say on the entire matter read Rule 10.

The Devil is a gentleman.

He is not a sadistic torturer of animals.

Bullfighting falls under the blood sacrifice practices from which we gained such delightful religions as Judaism and Christianity.

The torture of animals has nothing to do with Satanism.

That has been the explicit and absolute fact of the matter since Day One in Year One A.S.

Pure and simple.

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#228659 - 03/23/07 12:41 PM Re: Donations to the poor. [Re: ModernTantalus]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
This does not require torturing an animal to death first.

That is the entire point.

If they wish to donate food they can as painlessly as possible kill the beast for meat.

This is a very inadequate argument to support the torture of animals as "sport".

It is a cruel and unnecessary punishment of a innocent animal.

Some traditions are simply wrong.

Period.

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#228660 - 03/23/07 12:48 PM Re: "respect"? [Re: Nemo]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I just had a random thought.

I'm not much for bullfighting, either, and I'll even admit that rodeos don't always sit completely well with me, either.

But, there is perhaps one thing I can say about bullfighting--at least those poor people KNOW exactly where their free meat came from, and recognize that a bull died to feed them. (Whether they care or not is another matter.)

We in America are insulated from the deaths of so many animals that go into our steaks and burgers. It takes special effort to remember that one's chicken fingers were originally chickens.

No doubt that many of these slaughterhouses and factory farms are pretty crummy, and that many (though not all) food animals grow up in much worse circumstances than a bull who'll be in a bullfight.

In your opinion, how do you think Satanists should approach that issue, Magister? How do you approach it, if I can ask?

If we lived in a Satanic society, what would the parts of our society that involve animals look like?

Anyone else who wants to chime in is free to do so, of course.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#228661 - 03/23/07 01:06 PM Re: "respect"? [Re: TrojZyr]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
I simply do not give business to the places that treat their animals unkindly -- or give their cows growth hormones. The places that care for their animals, giving them more room and better food, see that this is good for business. As it's usually roughly the same in cost, when people know about it, they'll probably get that meat, instead.

Hopefully many people will do so, and other businesses not so gentle with their creatures will see they are losing customers, and change their ways.

Also, hopefully -- by being an aware shopper, I believe I am aiding in a revolution -- one where people don't pump their cows full of things to make them taste better or stick them in tiny, enclosed spaces right next door to the cows being slaughtered.

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#228662 - 03/23/07 01:09 PM How I approach it. [Re: TrojZyr]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
(1) I do not try to change the world.

(2) I only try to change my world.

If I read about someone beating puppies to death I do not form a protest (and I do not buy tickets to watch either).

If I see someone beating puppies to death in front of me, I will do something about it.

Bullfighting is a very popular "sport" in many parts of the world. This is outside of my control and I distance myself from such things. I filter out what I do not wish to experience whenever possible.

If someone communicates here that they advocate the torture of animals, I can then post why I disagree, how this is against the ethics of Satanism, and I can then exclude their posts from my vision by hitting the "Ignore this user" button on their profile.

I do not attempt to cover the earth with leather.

I wear shoes.

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#228663 - 03/23/07 01:16 PM Re: How I approach it. [Re: Nemo]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Think globally, act personally .

Or something like that.

I like the sound of "don't cover the world with leather, wear shoes."
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#228664 - 03/23/07 01:18 PM By the way... [Re: Nemo]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
We already do live in a "Satanic society".

It is up to the individual Satanist to recognize this fact and choose mastery over his own world rather than to enter into energy-wasting "mass movements".

We are realists.

We look to what can directly affect our own selfish experience.

We look to what we actually have direct control over.

Those who do not live so, still live in a "Satanic society" from my perspective.

This understanding is critical in my opinion.

It is at the core of choosing one's self as God.

I am God.

They are my minions ... whether they understand this or not.

This world is my Satanic society.

It always will be if I choose it to be so.

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#228665 - 03/23/07 04:11 PM Re: "respect"? [Re: TrojZyr]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
The poor conditions of meat producing animals are a sad byproduct of a large population. It can be cleaned up a bit but there is a limit to how clean it can become considering the demand and output of the meat industry. A large population requires more meat and it will be delivered quickly and messy.

One way to correct this by either decreasing the human population (nice idea but it is unrealistic) or to improve technology. If people would promote research you can soon have meat grown in labs without killing a single animal and it could even taste better. Yep, I am not making it up. It is being researched as we speak.

As for being disconnected from death, that is fine by me. I have seen plenty of death and I would like to avoid it as much as possible.

If people are too disconnected and ignorant to understand that one thing must die for another then there really is no helping those fools.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#228666 - 03/23/07 05:34 PM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: Nemo]
evildork Offline


Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Quote:

I would be more impressed if the matador faced an unharmed, unexhausted bull ... and without any weapons.





Much more impressive, yes, but I just want to point out (not necessarily to you, Nemo) that this type of thing is no less cruel. From my point of view, the most uncomforting aspect about any similar event is that the animal can't and wouldn't choose to participate.

If violence is what you're after, the only options you should even be able to imagine to consider are those that only involve willing (or deserving) humans.
_________________________
- EVILDORK

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#228667 - 03/23/07 05:54 PM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: evildork]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
"If violence is what you're after, the only options you should even be able to imagine to consider are those that only involve willing (or deserving) humans."

.....Ones that have chosen to throw away their rights as a civilized human beings and commit crimes against undeserving humans and other animals. Bringing back the Circus Maximus would be JUSTICE!, however we all know that would never happen under present circumstances, unfortunately.
HS!
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#228668 - 03/23/07 07:41 PM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: evildork]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

Quote:


I would be more impressed if the matador faced an unharmed, unexhausted bull ... and without any weapons.




Much more impressive, yes, but I just want to point out (not necessarily to you, Nemo) that this type of thing is no less cruel. From my point of view, the most uncomforting aspect about any similar event is that the animal can't and wouldn't choose to participate.




My point is that this won't happen.

If it does, the bull will win.

(And, yes, I am aware of Mas Oyama's old stunts).

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#228669 - 03/23/07 07:58 PM Re: Donations to the poor. [Re: Nemo]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I'm not saying that giving the meat to the poor makes it any more right. I was simply answering the question as to what is done with the meat.

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#228670 - 03/23/07 09:31 PM Re: Donations to the poor. [Re: ModernTantalus]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
"I was simply answering the question as to what is done with the meat."

The meat becomes their Good-guy badge. A justification for their actions.
HS!
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#228671 - 03/23/07 10:31 PM Re: Excuse me? [Re: Nemo]
zaxaf Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 394
Quote:



Racism is a poor substitute for intelligence.

Racism, animal cruelty, blood sacrifice and stupidity have no place in Satanism.




Nemo thank you for these words! This is why true Satanists are the ELITE of the ELITE! 99% of this wasteland called Earth is filled with the above mentioned .

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#228672 - 03/23/07 10:51 PM Re: By the way... [Re: Nemo]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Another brief off-topic question or two, Magister.

(I'm working on a personal project of sorts, where two points of view have to be in equal dialogue with each other, so I want to be able to represent both the "put leather on the world" and the "wear shoes" views with equal accuracy and fairness.)

How do you know when an issue is within or outside of your own sphere of influence? For example, the civil rights movement probably originally looked like a pipe dream, and the gay rights movement sometimes look similarly futile, but they have and will seemingly accomplish big things. If the people involved in these movements had been content to exist solely in their own sphere, they would've had to tolerate, presumably, not having certain rights and freedoms.

I think you've said something in the past about mass movements being futile, so I want to know more about that.

And, if we're sure that something absolutely is right---like treating animals well--or that something is absolutely wrong, how can we justify or explain not doing everything we can to fix the situation, especially since we say we care about animals and hate it when they suffer?

Is trying to change the world a waste of time because it can't be done, or shouldn't be done, or because the fruits aren't worth the effort expended?

Thanks in advance .
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#228673 - 03/23/07 11:09 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: c23]
JysusCryst Offline


Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Oklahoma
Quote:

Well, I'm not sure it's Satanic but it certainly isn't legal so it's pretty much out of the question...

Quote:

I'd like to put into my will that my body gets donated cannibals.




Will you ship out of the country? I might know a few people interested in giving you a try.




I don't believe it's illegal if they sign for it before hand, kind of like donating an organ. They're donating their meat. I'll have to research it. If it happens to be illegal in the USA I'll just travel to somewhere it is legal and try it!

Also, I'll be happy to ship my corpse out of country to feed to someone who wants to try the rare delicacy of human flesh!
_________________________
No love lost on hatred spent.

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#228674 - 03/24/07 11:44 AM Re: A cowardly "sport" in need of improvement. [Re: Nemo]
YaeK Offline


Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 211
Loc: Portugal
Actually, in Portugal, they do have something like that. They don't kill the bull in the arena here. They do still use those stupid spears, it seems... (but no swords). I think it's the horsemen who use those.

But otherwise, they have either one man or groups of men facing the bull without any weapons or protection, and I believe their goal is to grab the animal and make it fall or so.

At the end, either the bull is taken to be killed with a professional butcher, like all others, for food; or it is sometimes healed and taken care of, then sent to pasture for breeding.

I'm not sure of the rules and details of it. Never been to any of those things myself.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if there is still one place in Portugal (Barrancos) where they still allow the bull to be killed, or not...

I certainly don't support the practice nonetheless. Or see any supposed "fun" in it. However, it's still often better in Portugal than it is in Spain.
_________________________
-YK-

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#228675 - 03/25/07 05:25 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: JysusCryst]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

I'm not exactly against it ...




You are living up to your name.

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#228676 - 03/25/07 05:30 PM Same story. [Re: YaeK]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Same story.

I am opposed to it.

If one is going to butcher an animal for food it is not Satanic to torture the beast before hand.

Period.

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#228677 - 03/25/07 05:54 PM Re: How I approach it. [Re: Nemo]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

I wear shoes.




Those are some damn fine shoes too!
_________________________









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#228678 - 03/25/07 10:36 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Nemo]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

Quote:

I'm not exactly against it ...




You are living up to your name.




Indeed...
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#228679 - 03/26/07 02:30 AM Re: Same story. [Re: Nemo]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Australia
Quote:

If one is going to butcher an animal for food it is not Satanic to torture the beast before hand.




On another note, as c23 said this also decreases meat quality. Not to mention that meat from female animals seems to unanimously taste better than meat from male animals (I think its the hormones, even if they're de-sexed).
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#228680 - 03/26/07 02:53 AM Re: Same story. [Re: Nemo]
YaeK Offline


Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 211
Loc: Portugal
Much agreed.

I'd also like to mention something that I believe no one has talked about in this thread so far, but that sure deserves to be pointed out.

Most people (obviously) focus all on the bull, and often completely forget something else. The horse, when there is one.

Those "beautiful, noble horses" are treated anything but with loving care. They too must suffer the bull's attacks, in only vain attempts to escape. Also, as the animals panik, the horsemen force spurs into their ribs, causing deep wounds and infections that every bullfight lover appears to ignore. Where's the "nobility" in it for the horse?

Some of those horses really suffer severe injuries, not only at the bull's expense, but at the rider's, too.
I remember my mother telling me about this years ago when we bumped into one of those things on TV. It was disgusting, as the image I have most clear of it are both exhausted animals bleeding from very ugly looking cuts.

Like I did say, it's usually better in Portugal. But it's never good.
_________________________
-YK-

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#228681 - 03/26/07 05:00 AM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Shade]
DarkView5150 Offline


Registered: 03/25/07
Posts: 12
Serves the prick right (pun intended).


DarkView5150

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#228682 - 03/26/07 06:16 AM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Nemo]
JysusCryst Offline


Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Oklahoma
Quote:

Quote:

I'm not exactly against it ...




You are living up to your name.




When I say I'm not exactly against it, I mean that I am not against a man entering a ring with a bull armed with only a sword and piece of red cloth for a battle to the death (or only injured in the case of the man). Though I am against the fact that they use a weak and exhausted bull.

My view is that while the bullfight is cruel, it's also a chance to let the animal live. As someone said before, if the bull kills the matador, it is set free. If the bull dies, than it is used for food, which is in accordance to the 10th Satanic Rule of the Earth.

I think of it like this. If I was raised my entire life only to be killed in a slaughter house, I'd much rather die in a battle which gave me a chance to escape instead of being killed in the death chamber peacefully.
_________________________
No love lost on hatred spent.

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#228683 - 03/26/07 06:30 AM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: JysusCryst]
Valek Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 1030
Loc: Non-local
Quote:

My view is that while the bullfight is cruel, it's also a chance to let the animal live.




Simply leaving the animal alone in the first place would accomplish the same goal.
_________________________
Gravity seems weak until you look down.

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#228684 - 03/26/07 06:43 AM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: JysusCryst]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
Quote:

I think of it like this. If I was raised my entire life only to be killed in a slaughter house, I'd much rather die in a battle which gave me a chance to escape instead of being killed in the death chamber peacefully.




I'm sure the bull used this exact line of reasoning before it volunteered for the battle.

Myself, I would have chosen a life of fucking and eating grass.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#228685 - 03/26/07 07:41 AM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: JysusCryst]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'm not exactly against it ...




You are living up to your name.




When I say I'm not exactly against it, I mean that I am not against a man entering a ring with a bull armed with only a sword and piece of red cloth for a battle to the death (or only injured in the case of the man). Though I am against the fact that they use a weak and exhausted bull.

My view is that while the bullfight is cruel, it's also a chance to let the animal live. As someone said before, if the bull kills the matador, it is set free. If the bull dies, than it is used for food, which is in accordance to the 10th Satanic Rule of the Earth.

I think of it like this. If I was raised my entire life only to be killed in a slaughter house, I'd much rather die in a battle which gave me a chance to escape instead of being killed in the death chamber peacefully.




Living is one thing. Being FORCED into battle for sport IN ORDER TO be 'able' to continue to LIVE, is an entirely different thing. It is CRUEL and SADISTIC.

We all hear of the stories of Pit Bulls, Dobermans, Rotties, EVEN CHICKENS who are put into a pen together to fight it out to the death. This is all for SPORT and PROFIT and ENTERTAINMENT.

Are you against these things? I am. Bull Fighting takes this one step further. They don't 'arm the bull with a sword'. They beat the Bull down. Even if they didn't, it still is NOT a fair battle and even if it WERE it is still a barbaric sick and twisted practice. Your logic is seriously flawed.

Get back up on the cross honey....
<CLICK!>
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#228686 - 03/26/07 11:51 AM Scientists create a sheep that's 15% human [Re: Shade]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1685
Loc: Denmark
I just read this story ...




Now scientists create a sheep that's 15% human

Scientists have created the world's first human-sheep chimera - which has the body of a sheep and half-human organs.

The sheep have 15 per cent human cells and 85 per cent animal cells - and their evolution brings the prospect of animal organs being transplanted into humans one step closer.

Professor Esmail Zanjani, of the University of Nevada, has spent seven years and £5million perfecting the technique, which involves injecting adult human cells into a sheep's foetus.


He has already created a sheep liver which has a large proportion of human cells and eventually hopes to precisely match a sheep to a transplant patient, using their own stem cells to create their own flock of sheep.

The process would involve extracting stem cells from the donor's bone marrow and injecting them into the peritoneum of a sheep's foetus. When the lamb is born, two months later, it would have a liver, heart, lungs and brain that are partly human and available for transplant.

"We would take a couple of ounces of bone marrow cells from the patient,' said Prof Zanjani, whose work is highlighted in a Channel 4 programme tomorrow.

"We would isolate the stem cells from them, inject them into the peritoneum of these animals and then these cells would get distributed throughout the metabolic system into the circulatory system of all the organs in the body. The two ounces of stem cell or bone marrow cell we get would provide enough stem cells to do about ten foetuses. So you don't just have one organ for transplant purposes, you have many available in case the first one fails."

At present 7,168 patients are waiting for an organ transplant in Britain alone, and two thirds of them are expected to die before an organ becomes available.

Scientists at King's College, London, and the North East Stem Cell Institute in Newcastle have now applied to the HFEA, the Government's fertility watchdog, for permission to start work on the chimeras.

But the development is likely to revive criticisms about scientists playing God, with the possibility of silent viruses, which are harmless in animals, being introduced into the human race.

Dr Patrick Dixon, an international lecturer on biological trends, warned: "Many silent viruses could create a biological nightmare in humans. Mutant animal viruses are a real threat, as we have seen with HIV."

Animal rights activists fear that if the cells get mixed together, they could end up with cellular fusion, creating a hybrid which would have the features and characteristics of both man and sheep. But Prof Zanjani said: "Transplanting the cells into foetal sheep at this early stage does not result in fusion at all."


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/ar...ource=&ct=5

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#228687 - 03/26/07 12:20 PM Re: Scientists create a sheep that's 15% human [Re: LightAngel]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Not nitpicking but how do you figure this article fits in this thread?
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#228688 - 03/26/07 12:35 PM Re: Scientists create a sheep that's 15% human [Re: gypsy]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1685
Loc: Denmark
I was thinking about posting a whole new topic, but I thought it was ok to post it in here because some people might consider this to be animal abuse also


Edited by LightAngel (03/26/07 12:37 PM)

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#228689 - 03/26/07 12:39 PM What a bunch of bull. [Re: JysusCryst]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

I think of it like this. If I was raised my entire life only to be killed in a slaughter house, I'd much rather die in a battle which gave me a chance to escape instead of being killed in the death chamber peacefully.




What a bunch of bull.

YOU can make a choice.

The BULL is not given a choice.

The torture of animals is against Satanic principles.

This is not an issue of debate.

You are wrong in this view as a Satanist.

Can you correct your understanding or will false pride cause you to cling to animal cruelty instead?

Thank it through.

It is really a black and white issue.

"Satanism requires study." -ASL

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#228690 - 03/26/07 12:41 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: Torquemada]
uncivil_serpent Offline


Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 40
Loc: alabama
Quote:

When you go to hunt you go with rifles. The hunters are so valiant¡¡¡¡¡

They are always at a safe distance, and protected by gunfire.




I deer hunt on a regular basis. When I kill it is clean, quick, and painless, the deer never knows I was there. And I have been attacked by a deer, as a matter of fact I have a 8 inch scar down my chest from his hoove. Simply put you have your opinion, I have mine. And my opinion is that bullfighting IS unfair and barbaric.

Hail Satan!
_________________________
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism." [Einstein]

"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

Hail Satan!

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#228691 - 03/26/07 12:47 PM It would only be animal abuse if... [Re: LightAngel]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
It would only be animal abuse if the work involved required torture to the animal.

I would assume that if the day comes when animals can produce human organs for transplant that the animals will be anesthesized for organ removal and then euthanized.

It would be cruelty in my opinion to have "sheepfighting" prior to organ removal in which grown men would stab the creature causing it to bleed and weaken with pain and exhaustion first.

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#228692 - 03/26/07 01:05 PM Re: It would only be animal abuse if... [Re: Nemo]
Marcato Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 273
Loc: Northern New England
Magister, this is something I've been wondering: Can an animal be euthanised without irreparably damaging it's tissue and organs? I've long assumed that the reason no one has pushed for "food animals" being euthanised, is that it leaves you with a pile of poison meat. And if that's the case, wouldn't it make sense that you'd have to slaughter an animal for organ harvest? I'm not a chemist, or a biologist, so I'm not sure if there are chemicals that can peacefully dispatch a creature but leave its vital organs intact. Maybe someone here can shed some light on this.
_________________________
I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction.
Ayn Rand


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#228693 - 03/26/07 01:11 PM Re: It would only be animal abuse if... [Re: Marcato]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
There are certain chemicals that can do this. They cause a cardiac arrest, which isn't the most pleasant way to go, but beats being repeatedly stabbed with spears, worn out to exhaustion, and then stabbed in the back. I'd post these chemicals, but that would be irresponsible since they can be used on humans and are almost impossible to detect in a toxicology study. Anything that's detectable typically would ruin the meat. Just suffice it to say that such chemicals exists and are more common than you might think. By the way, do you think eating one of these sheep would count as cannabalism?

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#228694 - 03/26/07 01:14 PM Re: Scientists create a sheep that's 15% human [Re: LightAngel]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Quote:

I was thinking about posting a whole new topic, but I thought it was ok to post it in here because some people might consider this to be animal abuse also




How many of those people do you suppose would choose death over a liver transplant simply because it was created using human stem cells into foetal sheep.
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#228695 - 03/26/07 01:28 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: uncivil_serpent]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
You hunt for sport?

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#228696 - 03/26/07 02:57 PM Re: Bull Fought Back [Re: JysusCryst]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

I think of it like this. If I was raised my entire life only to be killed in a slaughter house, I'd much rather die in a battle which gave me a chance to escape instead of being killed in the death chamber peacefully.




You sound as if you belong in a slaughter house.
_________________________









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#228697 - 03/26/07 04:47 PM Re: What a bunch of bull. [Re: Nemo]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Quote:

What a bunch of bull.




No, this is a bunch of bull. I wonder what this "bullfighter" is thinking....



(Mexican bullfigther Joselito Adame is pinned down by a bull during a bullfight in Las Ventas, Madrid Sunday March 25, 2007.(AP Photo/EFE, Paco Campos))
_________________________
"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

We're Just Regular People

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#228698 - 03/26/07 04:52 PM Re: What a bunch of bull. [Re: Shade]
Groundhog Offline


Registered: 10/12/06
Posts: 306
Maybe he was thinking that he should have stayed in school or maybe he wished that he didn't have to try so hard to prove what a hero he is or maybe he thought he should have just enjoyed his life a little more.


Edited by Groundhog (03/26/07 05:03 PM)
_________________________
H S

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#228699 - 03/26/07 05:07 PM Re: What a bunch of bull. [Re: Groundhog]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

Maybe he was thinking that he should have stayed in school or maybe he wished that he didn't have to try so hard to prove what a hero he is or maybe he thought he should have just enjoyed his life a little more.




It doesn't matter. That should have NEVER happened. I don't care if they feed the homeless/needy with it. Nothing justifies this type of abuse to an innocent animal. Makes Me Damned angry.

If someone wants to feed the hungry fine. Do it quickly and respectfully. Don't play games with the poor creature.

I'm going to back out of this thread, it only hurts Me, and I don't normally subject Myself to things I need not to.

_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#228700 - 03/26/07 05:07 PM Re: What a bunch of bull. [Re: Shade]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Sadly I am sure that bull fighter lived.

I highly doubt that bull is enjoying the sport with those spears stuck into his thick hide.

Culture, an excuse to be idiotic.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#228701 - 03/26/07 05:29 PM Re: What a bunch of bull. [Re: Evil_Eve]
Groundhog Offline


Registered: 10/12/06
Posts: 306
I hope that you don't think I'm sad that he's getting gored. I rejoice that the tables were turned and the matador's getting trounced and not the other way around, but I will never like this sport either way.


Edited by Groundhog (03/26/07 10:00 PM)
_________________________
H S

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#228702 - 03/26/07 05:50 PM Re: What a bunch of bull. [Re: Shade]
Mile_Highlander Offline


Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 224
Quote:

Quote:

What a bunch of bull.




No, this is a bunch of bull. I wonder what this "bullfighter" is thinking....



(Mexican bullfigther Joselito Adame is pinned down by a bull during a bullfight in Las Ventas, Madrid Sunday March 25, 2007.(AP Photo/EFE, Paco Campos))




.....The fastest Lord's Prayer ever in history, perhaps???

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