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#23516 - 01/30/04 06:25 PM LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft ???
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello all,

Question as I'm writing a book about Satanism V. Humanism LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft and would like people's thoughts on such idealogy to include in a section of my manuscript.

I am but a humanist, a poet, cynic, author of a mere two books, but want to know if people view LaVey as a fraud and a fake, or, evil, or influencial, or life changing with his views, did he use Crowley's "do what thou wilt" as ideas behind his philosophy, from Crowley who used his ideas from HP Lovecrafts Necronomicon?

The Satanic Bible - read it? like it? still got it? any interesting stories, thoughts, comments releating to it?

Much appreciated if anyone would like to submit their reasonings, please therefore email ftmexec@yahoo.com.

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#23517 - 01/30/04 06:31 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft ???
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

...but want to know if people view LaVey as a fraud and a fake, or, evil, or influencial...




Well, since you are posting this on a website for Satanists, I highly doubt you will find any who find Dr. LaVey as a fraud or false here.

Patricia

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#23518 - 01/30/04 06:35 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft ???
Anonymous
Unregistered


Personally I don't think he is, some do however and the "comment" is not meant to offend.

I find the philosophical ideas put forward in the Satanic Bible like looking in the mirror each day.

I'm just curious as to how people perceive the comments I've made ad basically I'm looking to inlcude in my project arguments from all walks of life, both sides of the story so to speak.

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#23519 - 01/30/04 06:49 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft ???
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
You clearly have time to kill. Had you been serious about the information you 'seek', you would, quite easily, have discovered the proper avenues. Your motivations are, at best, translucent.
But hey, it's all entertainment. I might suggest;however, a modification with respect to your current approach.
"Your going the right way for a smart bottom." -Shrek

"I'm just curious as to how people perceive the comments I've made ad basically I'm looking to inlcude in my project arguments from all walks of life, both sides of the story so to speak."-Humanist
Have you thought about asking Sasquatch? He's got the greatest anecdotes.
_________________________
"If you wanna hurt me, you're gonna have to earn it motherfucker."
-Mickey Rourke

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#23520 - 01/30/04 06:54 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft ??? [Re: Mr_Atrox]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well I'm new around here and you "americans" obviously aren't as friendly as I thought you may be.

Maybe my approach is alien, maybe thats the way we do thing here in the UK.

Contstructive critisicm please ...

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#23521 - 01/30/04 06:55 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft ???
Blackheart Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 389
Loc: England
Just a small word of warning:

A lot of people come here doing research for their books, theses, surveys, etc, and not many get answers.

Satanists, as a general rule, do not like being studied . The Church of Satan has official spokespersons who are chosen specifically to speak on behalf of the Church. I am sure that if you contact the administration, they will consider your project if you are a serious writer.

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#23522 - 01/30/04 07:01 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft ???
Happy Birthday Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Contact the Church of Satan. No one here can official talk for CoS, besides those of the Priesthood.

I am sure you are just looking for personal opinions but that doesn't make for good printed material.
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#23523 - 01/30/04 07:02 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft ??? [Re: Blackheart]
Anonymous
Unregistered


As I've said, I'm new around here, so please bear with me, and my niavety.

I'm already exploring the avenue you put forward, outside of the USA, "satanists" and "humanists" and "laveyans" are often not taken serously.

I do not wish to upset the applce cart, I am sincere and serious regarding my original post.

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#23524 - 01/30/04 07:06 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
For one, Dr. LaVey spat upon occultniks like Crowley. Crowley was naught but a drug-compulsed dirty old man who put on airs of being "evil". I've read Crowley, and find numerous disparities between Dr. LaVey's methods, and Crowleys compulsions.

I doubt you will find many here than think Dr. LaVey is a "hack" or poseur. In fact posting such ideas around here might find yourself getting more than a few acidic replys.

The Gazelle gallops into the Lions den, jests that the Lion is but a Zebra, and then asks for "constructive criticism".

Amusing.

"Allow me to show you my fangs and claws." says the Lion.


Edited by Felstorm (01/30/04 07:09 PM)
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#23525 - 01/30/04 07:11 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft [Re: Felstorm]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Again, the method of approach in the UK is somewhat uncomfortable in the USA, so I apologise, no need to be on the defensive, we're "allies" remember?

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#23526 - 01/30/04 07:28 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
"Allies", he says.

*chuckles bemusedly to himself*

Seeing as you are new here, I'll just refer you to the CoS Website and to the stickies at the top of the forum. Heed well Reverend Svengali's articles.

Much to learn you have, Humanist.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#23527 - 01/30/04 07:33 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft
Wile_E_Quixote Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 2493
This may be a website owned by an American but you will find people on here from all over the world. It isn't an issue of things being done differently in the UK than the USA. You came onto a messageboard run by a CoS Priest and were asking for opinions on the founder of Satanism. No Satanist considers the founder of their religion to be a fraud. If we thought that then we wouldn't be Satanist. Any person who calls themselves a Satanist yet dismisses Dr LaVey's teachings is NOT a Satainist. Think about it.........it would be like a Christian calling Jesus a fake yet still claiming to be a Christian.

Crowley has nothing to do with Satanism. He formed his own religion based on judeo-christian and tantric mysticism.

Lovecraft has nothing to do with Satanism. He just created a very vivid and original overall concept for his stories

If you're wanting to do a comparrisson of Humanism and Satanism then I would recommend looking very closely at their respective ethical systems. THAT is where the real difference lies.

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#23528 - 01/30/04 07:33 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft
MagisterParadise Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 3266
Loc: Burlington, VT
30 Jan XXXIX A.S.

Quote:

did he use Crowley's "do what thou wilt" as ideas behind his philosophy, from Crowley who used his ideas from HP Lovecrafts Necronomicon?



The short answer is no. Read The Satanic Bible and find out why. Already read it? Read it again. Carefully.

As for Crowley, he is not the originator of "Do What Thou Wilt" as Sir Francis Dashwood had adopted it previous to Crowley for his Hellfire Club, and before that, it traces back to Rabelais. And "Thelema" is also borrowed, this time from a 19th century work of fiction, which borrowed it from another work of fiction by, once again, Rabelais. In short, a concept based on a fiction based on a fiction.

And, yes, that was my version of generosity... rare as it is.
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#23531 - 01/30/04 10:06 PM Haggis
Klarkesh-Ton Offline


Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 548
Loc: Ozark Wonderland
Um, Lovecraft was 14 when Crowley wrote his _Book of the Law_. Lovecraft didn't publish any fiction until twelve years after Crowley's statement, and didn't publish regularly for three more years. The Ol' Beast had already established his views long before Lovecraft could've been anything even close to a significant influence.

Hope your two books aren't as error-ridden as your post.
_________________________
“Do not fix your burning eyes on me when you speak about love. If you want to impress me when you speak about love put your hand in your pocket or under your dress and play with yourself.”

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#23532 - 01/30/04 10:45 PM Re: LaVey (influenced by) Crowley (influenced by) Lovecraft
Shiboleth Offline


Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 113
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Presumptous one aren't you? Aside from that fact that not everyone here is an American, you seem to be expecting the good folks here to be falling all over themselves eager to answer questions that would be more easily obtained had you contacted the church itself or one of its representatives.


Edited by Shiboleth (01/30/04 10:49 PM)
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