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#23660 - 02/01/04 02:11 AM Satanism vs. Demonology
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello,

My question is, if Satanism is related to, or involves demonic practices?

To tell you a little about myself, I have only recently begun learning what Satanism (and more specifically the CoS) is all about. I grew up with an inquisitive mother who has never aligned her beliefs with any one religion but sampled many. Because of her influences, I have always been able to keep an open mind when dealing with beliefs that I am ignorant of. My father and his family is another story altogether as they are all heavily protestant Christian. Luckily my dad was never wholly serious about his religion until he started growing older. I was about 14 when he became born-again and he started trying to take the family to church. However by that time, the hypocritical teachings of Christianity were already very apparent to me, and left me with very uneasy feelings. Thus much to the dismay of my father I avoided going whenever possible. This of course didn’t stop him from trying to convert me whenever possible and it taught me at that early age that you could argue with a faithful Christian until you were blue in the face, and never change their way of thinking. Eventually that and his controlling nature only served to estrange me from him.

As I grew up, I continued to maintain a generic belief in some kind of God, that derived from Judaism based faith, but I never again tried Christianity, until I was about 24. I was at a cross-road in my life, whereby I had a good career, was beginning a relationship with a nice Christian girl, and thought that maybe a religious faith on par with what my father’s family believed would be good to draw me closer to her and as a side bonus them (my father’s family). Well, the whole thing led to disaster. Of course my father was beyond pleased that I had finally saw the light and was believing his way, but as I finally read their holy bible and listened to their preachers, again everything continued to sound totally insane, unrealistic, and hypocritical to me. Not to mention the girl in question took me for the biggest spin of my life, leaving me in large amounts of debt and depression.

The depression grew over the next few years to the point where I was faced with two conclusions; 1) God must hate me, since I was suffering from so much misery and failure. 2) There must be no god. Because of all the Christian doctoring that I had been brought up with, both of these options led me to more anger and self hatred. It eventually got to the point where I was simply ready to die and would have done so if not for my extreme dislike for pain.

It wasn’t until an atheist friend of mine introduced me to existentialism that I was finally able to start making progress out of this hole that had become my life. Learning from thinkers like Sartre and Kierkegaard gave me the tools to re-evaluate all my original Christian programming and began to give me the mental tools needed to realize I was not a slave and was in fact in control of my life and only I had the power to shape what the results would be from my time here on earth. I learned Christianity is a prime example of what Existentialists call “bad-faith”, in that it takes all the responsibility away from its followers and puts it all in the duality hands of God and the Devil. If good comes from your life, its God’s fault, if the results are bad, it’s the Devils. I realized this thinking was why so much of western civilization is pockmarked with examples of people doing whatever they want, without ever owning-up to their actions. The Christian faith makes it easy to blame someone else (specifically something never seen and out of your control).

So anyway, it was at this point in my life that I happened by http://www.religioustolerance.org and stumbled upon Satanism. When I first saw the name Satanism listed as a religion, my mind instantly conjured images of human sacrifices and dismemberment, as well as all other kinds of heinous acts, which I have since come to learn is really the imaginary Satanic Ritual Abuse inspired by the minds of over-zealous Christian fiction writers in the mid-eighties. That and the extended which-hunts left over from Christian domination of medieval European times. When I began reading the teachings of Anton LaVey, and later the conception of the CoS, I became quite intrigued. I have read most of the articles on the CoS homepage under the Theory and Practice section and am quite curious to read the Satanic Bible now as well.

This leads me to my original question; I understand the relevance of the rebellious Satanist, who uses signs of defiance such as the sigil of Behemoth. However I am considerably wary of religions in general. I believe in humanity, in that this universe, through natural actions such as evolution has created the human species. A uniqueness we possess is our potential to one day master this universe and be wholly like gods ourselves. Through technology and mental development, we could easily one day conceive and control universes that we ourselves have created. In that, I don’t believe we alone possess this potential. Other creatures of this planet could easily evolve the same way, not to mention the countless forms of life that must exist elsewhere in this universe.

Satanism has simply presented an interesting philosophy that while intriguing, also presents questions which I’d like to have answered. It concerns me when I read of religious ceremonies involving chants, and rituals. To me, magic is simply unseen quantum energies that are thought-sensitive, and thus, one day we should be able to control them through technology or heightened intellects. However, again, I am weary of opening myself to outside influences that may not have the best intentions for my person. I do not doubt that “demons” and possibly even the Christian god exist. To me, if they are real, they are possibly just beings in this universe that are more advanced than me. In the case of the Christian god, he is simply a very self-centered, insecure deity that has gathered a lot of followers through the use of guilt and shame. :P

I apologize for the longwinded post, but felt it pertinent to let you know where I’m coming from. I have read the words from the official representatives of the CoS and respect their opinions for the most part. Some of you who post here, have also impressed upon me that you uphold the same attitudes, so I would like to know if anyone has any light (or is it darkness?) to shed on these concerns of mine.

-Akumu

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#23661 - 02/01/04 02:41 AM Re: Satanism vs. Demonology
SilverHammer Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 1758
Loc: Connecticut
You sound to me as if you are on the right track. Reading The Satanic Bible will serve a dual purpose: it will answer most of your questions, and you will know immediately whether or not you are a Satanist.
Good luck to you.
_________________________
Some boys grow up into men who can look at themselves in the mirror in the morning, and others just go along with the crowd, forgetting after a while that they ever had a choice. ---Roger Ebert

www.myspace.com/savagegod

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#23662 - 02/01/04 03:04 AM Re: Your Starting Point.
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10571
Loc: England
>>I do not doubt that “demons” and possibly even the Christian god exist.<<

This is the most telling aspect of all you have said.

You also stipulate that you have concerns regarding your personal safety with regards to the use of magic.

White light religions uphold such guilt laden philosophies due to their foreboding reticence to exhalt their own egos, rather than surrender to external deities and powers.

You need to read The Satanic Bible. This really is a prerequisite and is your starting point. In reading this essential tome you will discover whether it is for you. Or not.
_________________________
"u.v.ray blends the dark street poetry of Nelson Algren with the swagger and style of a young Iggy Pop."

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#23663 - 02/01/04 03:15 AM Re: Satanism vs. Demonology
Insurgent Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2318
In my opinion it depends on what you mean by demonic. Some people consider wearing diamonds to be demonic. In my opinion, demonic is really breaking away from superstious "goods" derived from ignorance in order to acheive deeper awareness and a fuller quality of life. If anything is the "enemy of God," it is reason, self-determination, and focused passion.

Other people may explain it differently. This is how I interprit and explain much of Satanism's symbolism.

If you mean superstitious ideas of "demonic activity" then no, you won't find any of that.

I hope you enjoy your studies regardless of whether or not you find yourself to be a Satanist in the end. My suggestion is to start out with The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey and The Church of Satan by Blanche Barton if you want something more historical.
_________________________
My site: www.josiegallows.com

"My dear Insurgent you're an extremist, intolerant and you have prejudices. That's all."

"I am a fucking Satanist and desire in all of my being to be the Queen of the World if at all possible...."

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#23664 - 02/01/04 04:41 AM Satanism isn't Demonology
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Demonlogy and devil worship are subsets of the Judeo-Islamic-Christian religious perspective.

Satanism has nothing in common with that perspective.

If you found existentialism liberating while retaining a belief in God and demons, you are in for some truly enlightening shocks when you read our Bible!

Oh, by the way. Welcome to reality!

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#23665 - 02/01/04 04:49 AM Re: Your Starting Point. [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:


White light religions uphold such guilt laden philosophies due to their foreboding reticence to exhalt their own egos, rather than surrender to external deities and powers.





I concur, that this is something I've come to realize is left over from my history with specifically the Christian faith. Such religions teach we are so powerless, and our only way to be safe is through the actions of some external deity. That is one of the main aspects that appealed to me when I first started reading about Satanism - that there is no savior, except for yourself. That and that Satanism is NOT the worship of the Christian prince of hell.

But what I'm concerned with here is possible hypocrisy in the CoS. Saying that there is no worship of the Christian like Satan, yet still commencing in rituals where some "dark lord" is invoked. In Michael Rose's [I]Ritual To Secure Cooperation a jest was made saying chant "In the name of all the Lords of the Abyss...". Although this was a joke, it’s still something I’m wary of.

I’m coming to the conclusion that for one to truly be free, one truly does have to let go of all those pre-conceptions of our spiritual destinies and instead approach every situation with complete freedom of fear and guilt. That is one of the things that has really perked my interest in the things I’ve seen discussed so far. Everything about the satanic religion seems to revolve around empowering individuals. Pointing out how we should live our lives to the fullest, instead of cowering in fear letting some blanket theology give us all the answers and never making any progress for ourselves, or our species.

As for believing there are beings more powerful than myself, that may indeed be an ignorant form of thought, but I have learned I should make my decisions based off my perception not based off of fear others would instill in me.

But I think my question has already been answered, that my next step should really be to read the Satanic Bible.

-Akumu

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#23666 - 02/01/04 05:10 AM Re: Your Starting Point.
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
quote][But what I'm concerned with here is possible hypocrisy in the CoS.]




So now "hypocrisy" becomes your God?

Concern over hypocrisy is just another form of enslavement to the demand that the ignorant shall dictate your thoughts and actions.

Satanism begins with the assumption of Godhood not the fear of hypocrisy.

Ritual depends upon knowledge not concern for what others with limited understanding believe.

If you get past beliefs you can do what produces results.

But you already knew that. right?

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#23667 - 02/01/04 05:14 AM Re: Your Starting Point.
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10571
Loc: England
Yes, indeed. The satanic Bible is the single most important factor.

The ritualistic aspect of Satanism is something which needs personal exploration. But just to clarify something for you - it really works on a psychological level. If something is acting as a barrier to your personal developement and happiness it is logical that you should start by working on yourself to bring about changes in the real world - your psychological outlook is paramount in complimenting your real world actions.

Due to the nature of the human mind - which is a creative force - the ritual, seen as a psychodrama, tends to work very well.

We call it suspension of disbelief during ritual. A little bit like watching a film; you know it isn't real but you choose to believe so during that time frame whilst you are watching it. But, as I say, it does require personal study. It's a personal adventure, truly.

But you are on your way, I think.
_________________________
"u.v.ray blends the dark street poetry of Nelson Algren with the swagger and style of a young Iggy Pop."

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#23668 - 02/01/04 05:15 AM Re: Satanism vs. Demonology
Wile_E_Quixote Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 2493
I think that, besides reading The Satanic Bible, you need to examine your use of belief. Satanism is a religion of doubt, not belief. Belief is entirely unhelpful. It is a betrayal of reason. Some beliefs may be based on reasonable premises but once you make it a belief you are denying the further application of reason to what you are believing.

Belief is unneccessary for a Satanist and usually very counterproductive.

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#23669 - 02/01/04 05:33 AM Re: Satanism isn't Demonology [Re: Nemo]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Demonlogy and devil worship are subsets of the Judeo-Islamic-Christian religious perspective.





From what I’ve read, Demonology is considerably older than all judeo based religions. Practitioners of the religion would solicit “spirits/gods/demons” to assist them with things they needed. Not unlike current religions, or what I’ve seen of Satanic ritual to help the Satanist accomplish things (Magic? This is what I’m trying to understand). That I guess is my real question… Do the rituals involve chanting to unseen spirits? Of course I know that not all said spirits would necessarily be malevolent or benevolent. But this leads me to my second point…

Quote:


If you found existentialism liberating while retaining a belief in God and demons, you are in for some truly enlightening shocks when you read our Bible!





I think with how immense the universe isn’t it a bit naive to assume there are no life forms that exist which would be more powerful than us? Of course for the most part, such power would lead us to believe they wouldn’t care much about us (cockroaches to a human for example). But still, I’m simply pointing out that it shouldn’t be infeasible that such beings might be out there. I suppose that might appear as a contradiction from me to believe there could be such beings, and yet not believe I am somehow responsible to follow or “worship” them. But the way I look at it, if there were god-like beings that desired my worship, they could have a much more direct involvement in my life to help me understand that. Since they don’t, I chose not to worship them (if they exist in the first place).

Maybe TSB does explain all this, and I will read it, but I’m just curious.

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#23670 - 02/01/04 05:38 AM Re: Satanism vs. Demonology [Re: Wile_E_Quixote]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

I think that, besides reading The Satanic Bible, you need to examine your use of belief. Satanism is a religion of doubt, not belief. Belief is entirely unhelpful. It is a betrayal of reason. Some beliefs may be based on reasonable premises but once you make it a belief you are denying the further application of reason to what you are believing.

Belief is unneccessary for a Satanist and usually very counterproductive.




That is awesome and exactly the type of thing that intrigues me about Satanism! It encourages our doubt of things we can't fully explain, and motivates us to ask questions instead of "believing" in something we can't see, touch, taste, smell, or hear.

If the simple answer to my question is, "We don't know, but it is definitely working for us", then that is all I really need to know.

Er, however I'd still be forced to question anything that doesn't make sense with me. But from what I've see, that questioning is also a significant part of what Satanism is.

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#23671 - 02/01/04 05:44 AM Re: Satanism vs. Demonology
Wile_E_Quixote Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 2493
Exactly. Primarily, Satanism is a PERSONAL experience. Rather than look on things as being right or wrong, examine whether they are useful or useless to you. Something that is very useful to me might be entirely useless to you. Satanism is all about using subjectivity in a way that most benefits you.

Doubt is the most important tool you possess but demands to be used wisely if it is to be effective.

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#23672 - 02/01/04 11:13 AM Satanism definitely isn't Demonology!...
Shem_Hazai Offline


Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 127
Loc: Mon pays, c'est l'Hivers!
From what I've read, Demonology is considerably older than all judeo based religions. Practitioners of the religion would solicit spirits/gods/demons; to assist them with things they needed.

Occultniks and Internet bedlam! Oh boy... Animism and Pantheism have nothing to do with "demonology". Instead of searching through personnal websites, perhaps you should try rummaging through University's anthropology departments. Just a cue here, not flaming...

Do the rituals involve chanting to unseen spirits? Of course I know that not all said spirits would necessarily be malevolent or benevolent.

If chanting during a ritual is more conductive for you, if it works for you, then you'd certainly be better off chanting. Otherwise, it would be counter-productive to do so.

Make sur you read Dr. LaVey's other works too. This one's called the " Tumbler Lock principle ".

As for "sipirts" being of a good or bad nature or essence, wait till you read the Doktor's works... Then, perhaps, you'll finally understand why this statement is totally senseless from a Satanic perspective.

isn't it a bit naive to assume there are no life forms that exist which would be more powerful than us?

Well... We've found a fair amount of bacterias and fossils so far. Is that what you are refering to?...

I suppose that might appear as a contradiction from me to believe there could be such beings, and yet not believe I am somehow responsible to follow or worship them

Are you talking about "spirits" here, or "extra-terrestrial bacteria fossils"?...

Maybe TSB does explain all this, and I will read it, but I'm just curious

Don't settle for comments and hearsay, or other peoples' opinion for that matter. Dig where the money is: read up Doktor LaVey's works and sate your curiosity yourself, then you can shed your doubts and come to a conclusion on your own.

HS!
S.

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#23673 - 02/01/04 05:17 PM Re: Satanism vs. Demonology
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Yes, many have already said it. Read the Satanic Bible! This is not a "join us, be one of us" religions. There is no "us". There is only YOU. Read it and you will understand that Satanism is all about "realizing", and oh, the things you might realize!
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

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#23674 - 02/01/04 05:52 PM Re: Your Starting Point.
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

But what I'm concerned with here is possible hypocrisy in the CoS. Saying that there is no worship of the Christian like Satan, yet still commencing in rituals where some "dark lord" is invoked.




Ritual is using psychodrama to achieve results. You are invoking an idea, which we refer to as Satan. We see that Satan in ourselves, and in nature, and in everyday human interaction. Satan is nature undefiled by perception, in its raw beauty, power and cruelty. I see Satan in myself, and I invoke that power.

Quote:

I’m coming to the conclusion that for one to truly be free, one truly does have to let go of all those pre-conceptions of our spiritual destinies and instead approach every situation with complete freedom of fear and guilt.




Sure. Guilt is silly. Fear is either useful (fear of oncoming traffic) or not (fear of an idea).

Quote:

Everything about the satanic religion seems to revolve around empowering individuals.




Absolutely. And it's Satanic. Always. Like Christian, or Buddhist.

Quote:

Pointing out how we should live our lives to the fullest, instead of cowering in fear letting some blanket theology give us all the answers and never making any progress for ourselves, or our species.





Yes.

Quote:

As for believing there are beings more powerful than myself, that may indeed be an ignorant form of thought, but I have learned I should make my decisions based off my perception not based off of fear others would instill in me.





I think the popular catch phrase is that the Satanist "believes" nothing. There may be beings more powerful than us. There may be cute little piggies that talk on planet X25GHM9086H.

The question is, does it really matter to you as an individual?

If you don't know that a higher being exists and you don't know for a fact that you, personally, have something to gain by acknowledging this being...

What's the point? It's a waste of valuable time.

"Spiritual masturbation".

There may be intelligent beings on other planets. There may be powerful god-like beings (Like Satanists! Or General Zod!). But unless they show up in my living room, I really can't be bothered with wondering whether or not they exist and further - whether or not they give a rats ass about what I'm doing on a day to day basis.

Quote:

But I think my question has already been answered, that my next step should really be to read the Satanic Bible.





Yes. That's the best way. It's a fun read, even if you find you aren't in alignment with us.

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