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#238114 - 04/22/07 08:12 PM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11561
Loc: New England, USA
 Quote:
In my personal opinion, Theistic Satanism shouldn't exist.


Then why give it any credibility by calling it "Theistic Satanism"? Call devil worship what it is: devil worship. We've got dibs on the name "Satanism", because there was no actual, codified religion before 1966 that could be called "Satanism". So there is no need to describe "different forms of Satanism".

It's not like Christianity, where you have two sects who follow the same book and the same deity structure but just have differences over tradition, study vs. practice, which parts of the Bible to emphasize over the others, etc. Devil worshippers and Satanists have core dogmas that are completely contradictory to each other, and completely different written sources for their doctrines (The Satanic Bible vs. ideas randomly selected from church propaganda, fictional stories, tacky horror movies, etc.). They can hardly be called different sects of the same religion. Here's an essay I wrote on the subject.
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Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

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#238217 - 04/23/07 06:10 AM Re: Your attention please. [Re: Nemo]
Sir_Trojan Offline
Banned

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 10
I haven't received a PM.

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#238289 - 04/23/07 02:30 PM Re: Your attention please. [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12578
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I sent another one.

Thanks.

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#238571 - 04/24/07 06:41 PM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
evildork Offline


Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
One believes that a deity exists outside of thier immediate physical realm. The other believes that no such thing, with the individual being the deity.


The first is a devil worshipper, and not a Satanist. The second is a Satanist, and not an idiot.

 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
The Satanic Bible does say that MOST people don't believe in Satan as an actual deity. It leaves room for the handful of lunatics and nutters (read: devil worshippers) that believe that Old Nick is real.


No it doesn't.
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#238592 - 04/24/07 09:22 PM Read and understand. [Re: ]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12578
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...

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#238615 - 04/24/07 11:40 PM Re: Satan doesn't exist. PERIOD. [Re: ]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
In addition to Magister Nemo's recommendation, read THIS and THIS as well.
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#238622 - 04/25/07 12:17 AM Thank you. [Re: Unknown]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12578
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I am honored you would choose one of my writings to support this issue.

Thank you.

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#238627 - 04/25/07 12:34 AM Re: Thank you. [Re: Nemo]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
You are welcome.

I have greatly benefited from your wisdom many times.

It is an honor to read such wisdom.

It is even more of an honor to share it.


Edited by Unknown (04/25/07 12:37 AM)
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#238666 - 04/25/07 08:38 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11561
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
So by your rationale, if you had someone who consired Satan to be a genuine, concious anthropomorphic deity and chose to worship that deity using the ritual and dogma of The Satanic Bible,


How, exactly, could one possibly do that? If they view and worship Satan as an athropomorphic deity, then such actions go directly against what's stated in The Satanic Bible. The dogma presented in the book goes directly against the idea of worshipping an externalized deity.

And if they're flipping right to the back of the book to perform the basic Satanic Ritual or one of the conjurations as if Satan was real, then they're ignoring the entire Book of Belial and are taking things completely out of context.

 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
One believes that a deity exists outside of thier immediate physical realm. The other believes that no such thing, with the individual being the deity.

But the ritual and dogma used by both people is identical.


Oh no they're not! Do you even know what the word "dogma" means?

And as far as ritual goes, even if you look at old versions of the alleged "Black Mass" upon which the Satanic Le Messe Noir is based upon, or the various general "circle" rituals that inspired the standard 13-step Satanic ritual, you'll see that key parts were changed so as to make it compatible with Satanism's (dare I use the following word) dogma. There are no notions of bowing-down or self-sacrifice in the rituals found in LaVey's books.

 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
The Satanic Bible does say that MOST people don't believe in Satan as an actual deity. It leaves room for the handful of lunatics and nutters (read: devil worshippers) that believe that Old Nick is real.


That hardly means that the book was written for such people too.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#238685 - 04/26/07 01:07 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: Bill_M]
Fagneto Offline
The Weakest Link

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 273
Loc: CT
Satan is real...a real bumper sticker, a real figure-head, a real symbol of pride (and other lovely "sins" ) AND really great in bed. Satan is as real as liberty, freedom and all forms of power. Satan is "real" just like Peter-Pan, Darth Vader and and all the other fictional idols I have on my chest.

If you want to call Satan a demon, god or deity...be my guest. I think you will be able to hear the roaring laughter from the army of REAL GODS on this earth.
_________________________
I am forever in the shadow of my crime, and for that I ask for punishment but only of the level I earned. I ask to not be removed from the place I find truth. I have been a very small creature, and have no excuse.

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#238701 - 04/26/07 04:14 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: Fagneto]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Australia
I love the way you express yourself!

 Quote:
If you want to call Satan a demon, god or deity...be my guest. I think you will be able to hear the roaring laughter from the army of REAL GODS on this earth.


Well said!
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HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



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#238710 - 04/26/07 08:41 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
If someone believes in the Christian Devil then they are a Christian. Christians are not Satanists.

To believe in something like that, without evidence, is to commit the sin of Self-Deceit. This is most certainly not Satanic.

It is possible for one to be a Satanist and believe in the Devil, if one were to be in an environment where the evidence for a Devil outweighed that againt it, but I do not know of such a place.

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#238716 - 04/26/07 09:40 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
Yes, there is something you can do about it. Read Magister Nemo's post below titled Read & Understand ...and understand!

You can parse words, slice and dice all you want. It still doesn't add up, and doesn't amount to anything. It is an argument for the sake of hearing an argument... Read and understand!

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#238721 - 04/26/07 10:11 AM One more time. [Re: ]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12578
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
http://www.satannet.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=78163&page=1#Post78163

You are taking things out of context.

If I did that with your posts here I could demonstrate that you think you think you have a barbed tail and horns.

If you have another agenda you might as well spit it out and get it over with.

If not, then read and understand.

There is zero confusion on this issue.

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#238731 - 04/26/07 10:38 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
And yet, you argue that someone who believes in an actual devil and uses parts of the Satanic Bible is a Satanist. Hmmm....

I will join Magister Nemo in asking what is your real motive for this. We have seen far too much of this arguing minutae that accomplishes nothing on this board.

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