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#237774 - 04/21/07 10:21 AM LaVey & Ayn Rand
Sir_Trojan Offline
Banned

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 10
Although I am familiar with The Satanic Bible, I found something that was very interesting.

It has been shown that LaVey took some 'inspiration' from Ayn Rand--which in a way surprises me, as most of the "Satanic Philosophy" or "Occult Sciences" she spoke of, were based traditionally on Theistic (Traditional) Satanism. Which of course, is the Worship of the Christian Satan/Devil. Now, as LaVey had spoken about on several occasions, that LaVeyan Satanism, the Church of Satan, and general Modern Day Satanism, was not the "reverse" of Christian beliefs/propaganda. Now, as a LaVeyan Satanist myself, I did find this rather odd. I have been through the Church of Satan Web site through & through, but have failed (either because I have not paid close enough attention, or it just isn't there...) to find an answer to the unusual question, that I have spoken.

Now, this isn't me trying to be some pseudo-Satanist, or attempting to besmirch LaVeyan Satanism (or the CoS) in anyway, it's just I have yet to locate on this Forum, CoS Web site, or any other site the answer to my theory. And, as I do not have any proof or logic, it is not my place to make guesses, or accusations. However, the objective of this post is to find out if any of you may have a simple answer for my theory.

Regards,
Nathan

Hail The Ego!

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#237777 - 04/21/07 10:26 AM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
 Quote:
I have...failed...to find an answer to the unusual question, that I have spoken.


I have failed to find your question for the unusual answer you seek.
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Minus

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#237788 - 04/21/07 11:34 AM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Nuno Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 239
Loc: Portugal
The inspiration taken from Ayn Rand comes from her excelent book Atlas Shrugged, specially passages from John Galt's speech.

In fact, if you study it carefully you will find that even though the book has been printed in 1957 and The Satanic Bible in 1969, it could have been the other way around. Like others have pointed, the passages from Galt's speech are more a companion to the actual Nine Satanic Statements than an inspiration.

I don't consider it degrading in any way. Satanism is the religion of Man, and a book like The Satanic Bible could have never been printed without outside inspirations. It's a book about the primitive human nature, its feelings and needs. It is more than common that you would find a lot of books printed before The SB that focus on similar subjects.

It has always been the wish of Man to be free from the castrating moral of Christianity. Satanism isn't the Anti-Christianity. Satanism is the opposite of Christianity, thus the meaning of the word "Satan".
Just because you don't do it the same way, doesn't mean you should deny it or be anti it.

Apart from D. Lavey's books I can point you other books of Satanic interest like Might is Right from Ragnar Redbeard; Thus Spoke Zarathustra from Friedrich Nietzsche; In Defense of Elitism from William Henry III. These are my personal favorites.

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#237789 - 04/21/07 11:37 AM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
 Originally Posted By: Sir_Trojan
LaVeyan Satanist


Where did you get this term from? There are no other types of Satanism.


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#237791 - 04/21/07 11:42 AM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
as most of the "Satanic Philosophy" or "Occult Sciences" she spoke of, were based traditionally on Theistic (Traditional) Satanism.


Your sources on this would happen to be claiming that they themselves are "Theistic Satanists", would they?

There is no such thing as "Theistic" or "Traditional" Satanism. That term sprung up after the emergence of the Church of Satan amongst those who wanted to practice Satanism but couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that it's not about worshiping the Devil.

There's also no such thing as "LaVeyan" Satanism.

Satanism has no denominations. When someone claims that it does, you can be sure that it's because there's something in The Satanic Bible that they don't agree with. Typically they like all the talk about "individuality" and think that gives them free reign to pick and choose what they want from the rest of the book.

Once you start to remove pieces of The Satanic Bible (or any other bit of Satanic dogma) you're left with something that is not Satanism. At best it is nothing more than a cheap imitation.

As for your question about Ayn Rand's influence on Anton LaVey's work, it is true that Anton LaVey drew some inspiration from Objectivism. What did you expect? Religions and philosophies are not the product of direct revelation, they are the distillation of their founders' knowledge and experience.

For further reading on the similarities and differences between Satanism and Objectivism, look here.


Edited by Virus9 (04/21/07 11:43 AM)
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#237792 - 04/21/07 11:42 AM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Sir_Trojan
Although I am familiar with The Satanic Bible, I found something that was very interesting.

It has been shown that LaVey took some 'inspiration' from Ayn Rand--which in a way surprises me, as most of the "Satanic Philosophy" or "Occult Sciences" she spoke of, were based traditionally on Theistic (Traditional) Satanism. Which of course, is the Worship of the Christian Satan/Devil. Now, as LaVey had spoken about on several occasions, that LaVeyan Satanism, the Church of Satan, and general Modern Day Satanism, was not the "reverse" of Christian beliefs/propaganda. Now, as a LaVeyan Satanist myself, I did find this rather odd. I have been through the Church of Satan Web site through & through, but have failed (either because I have not paid close enough attention, or it just isn't there...) to find an answer to the unusual question, that I have spoken.

Now, this isn't me trying to be some pseudo-Satanist, or attempting to besmirch LaVeyan Satanism (or the CoS) in anyway, it's just I have yet to locate on this Forum, CoS Web site, or any other site the answer to my theory. And, as I do not have any proof or logic, it is not my place to make guesses, or accusations. However, the objective of this post is to find out if any of you may have a simple answer for my theory.

Regards,
Nathan

Hail The Ego!


Where did Ayn Rand talk about "Satanism" or "occult sciences" at all?

Answer: She didn't.

Where were there any actual explicit Satanists BEFORE the Church of Satan?

Answer: There were none.

1. Check the copyright dates.

2. Stop filling your mind with bullshit.

Or don't.

If you can't then go away.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#237795 - 04/21/07 11:52 AM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Quote:
I do not have any proof or logic


What would impel you to assert anything unfounded in proof or logic?
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#237797 - 04/21/07 12:14 PM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Nuno]
TheNaturalForce Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 511
Loc: The Vibrant Garden
Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Yes. A very good book. My favorite one actually.
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#237804 - 04/21/07 01:48 PM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
ClownBoy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 77
Loc: North Carolina
Satanism is Satanism there is no denomination. You are either a Satanist or you are not. You cannot say there are two types and the reason you cannot is because saying so would be lying.


HAIL SATAN
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#237806 - 04/21/07 01:49 PM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
I have been through the Church of Satan Web site through & through, but have failed (either because I have not paid close enough attention, or it just isn't there...) to find an answer to the unusual question, that I have spoken.


You didn't "speak" a question.

What's your question?
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reprobate

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#237833 - 04/21/07 03:32 PM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11552
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: Sir_Trojan
However, the objective of this post is to find out if any of you may have a simple answer for my theory.


Yes, I do:

1) ALL religions have their share of influences. Even if we go along with the claims of some who say their dogma comes directly from the words and biography of one single prophet (let alone go along with the claim that such figures were real historic people in the first place), you can still see how they were influenced from other religions. For example, there are good reasons why Islam has emphasis on concepts that had already showed up on Christianity and Judaism, and good reasons why Buddhism has borrowed a number of concepts from Hinduism. And there are good reasons why none of these religions share much in common with religions from completely different geographical regions.

2) Satanism is no exception to this. LaVey had his share of influences, which he openly acknowledged. Just read "The Secret Life of a Satanist" or watch the biographical documentary "Speak of the Devil". Hell, just look how big the bibliography to "The Satanic Witch" is. Even aside from all that, anybody with a good knowledge of religions and philosophies, and who doesn't let self-righteousness bias his or her judgment, can see how Satanism was influenced by Rand, Nietzsche, Mark Twain, Machiavelli, etc. If having influnces means you're a "rip-off" (which I think you were secretly implying by putting the word "influence" in quotes), then every religion, philosophy, or musical act for that matter is a rip-off.

3) There is no such thing as "Traditional Satanism". Before the founding of the Church of Satan in 1966, there was no organized religion called "Satanism". Granted you had the occasional crazy devil worshipper, numerous occultists, and the occasional group of aristocrats who liked to indulge in Saturday night "Black Masses" for lewd entertainment. But again, no group that identified as "Satanists", and none had an applicable philosophy. Anybody else who claimed to do work with "Satan" were basing their theology completely off of scare stories from the Catholic Church, and later on bad horror B-movies. They were bored people who took up devilish aesthetics and trappings for the sake of attention or entertainment.

Therefore there is no need for terms like "LaVeyian Satanism" and "Traditional Satanism". We have dibs on the name "Satanism". These other terms do nothing but further confuse the issue, cloud history, and give false credibility to devil worshippers.
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#237872 - 04/21/07 05:19 PM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
G.F.V. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 1950
Loc: NYC
Ayn Rand was a militant Atheist. She despised all religions, and probably disliked Satanism as well. Hell, she probably would have laughed at the idea of practicing Lesser and Greater magic in order to empower the self on a small or large scale. This is not to say that I dislike her writings. In fact, I have read and enjoyed almost all of her novels and essays.

LaVeyan Satanism?.....What is that?

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#237905 - 04/21/07 06:55 PM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Luigi Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 349
Loc: Europe & South America

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#238047 - 04/22/07 01:24 PM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Virus9]
Sir_Trojan Offline
Banned

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 10
I'm aware that the whole "reason" or so-called "Philosophy" behind "Theistic Satanism" is quite ridiculous, as in my mind, they don't deserve the right to call themselves "free-thinkers" as all they're doing is following the same herd of sheep.

I don't have any sources. This is just my own curiosity. I'm not accusing LaVey of being anything he wasn't, nor am I implying that Ayn Rand talked about Satanism. However, her views regarding traditional society, are pretty much named "Occult" in today's world. Thus, that's probably the main reason it sparked my interest. In my personal opinion, Theistic Satanism shouldn't exist. It's just a bunch of besmirching bored teenagers, looking for something to get back at mummy and daddy because they were grounded (or something) thus, they look for something rebellious. With the reputation "Satan" carries around itself, it's the perfect rebellion for a teenager looking for something different, yet they still manage to become confused and end up leaving the whole thing. Occasionally they wake up to themselves, and other times, they don't.

No one puts anything into my head. I'm one of those..."If I don't see it, I don't believe it" thus, if I have no proof or logic behind my own theory, I obviously wouldn't go around throwing accusations at something where I need not subject myself, nor do I have any substantial evidence to back myself up. Thus, in the end, I simply contradict everything I say. That is why I asked. I would just prefer to hear it from people who know, instead of getting false information from someone who likes to think they know. But thanks all for responding, and I'll read up on that CoS page after I pick my daughter up.

Regards,
Nathan

P.S I still have more to say, but I will have to wait.

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#238064 - 04/22/07 02:59 PM Your attention please. [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Please reply to the PM I sent to you.

Thank you.

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#238114 - 04/22/07 08:12 PM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11552
Loc: New England, USA
 Quote:
In my personal opinion, Theistic Satanism shouldn't exist.


Then why give it any credibility by calling it "Theistic Satanism"? Call devil worship what it is: devil worship. We've got dibs on the name "Satanism", because there was no actual, codified religion before 1966 that could be called "Satanism". So there is no need to describe "different forms of Satanism".

It's not like Christianity, where you have two sects who follow the same book and the same deity structure but just have differences over tradition, study vs. practice, which parts of the Bible to emphasize over the others, etc. Devil worshippers and Satanists have core dogmas that are completely contradictory to each other, and completely different written sources for their doctrines (The Satanic Bible vs. ideas randomly selected from church propaganda, fictional stories, tacky horror movies, etc.). They can hardly be called different sects of the same religion. Here's an essay I wrote on the subject.
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http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
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#238217 - 04/23/07 06:10 AM Re: Your attention please. [Re: Nemo]
Sir_Trojan Offline
Banned

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 10
I haven't received a PM.

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#238289 - 04/23/07 02:30 PM Re: Your attention please. [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I sent another one.

Thanks.

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#238571 - 04/24/07 06:41 PM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
evildork Offline


Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
One believes that a deity exists outside of thier immediate physical realm. The other believes that no such thing, with the individual being the deity.


The first is a devil worshipper, and not a Satanist. The second is a Satanist, and not an idiot.

 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
The Satanic Bible does say that MOST people don't believe in Satan as an actual deity. It leaves room for the handful of lunatics and nutters (read: devil worshippers) that believe that Old Nick is real.


No it doesn't.
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#238592 - 04/24/07 09:22 PM Read and understand. [Re: ]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...

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#238615 - 04/24/07 11:40 PM Re: Satan doesn't exist. PERIOD. [Re: ]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
In addition to Magister Nemo's recommendation, read THIS and THIS as well.
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#238622 - 04/25/07 12:17 AM Thank you. [Re: Unknown]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I am honored you would choose one of my writings to support this issue.

Thank you.

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#238627 - 04/25/07 12:34 AM Re: Thank you. [Re: Nemo]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
You are welcome.

I have greatly benefited from your wisdom many times.

It is an honor to read such wisdom.

It is even more of an honor to share it.


Edited by Unknown (04/25/07 12:37 AM)
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#238666 - 04/25/07 08:38 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11552
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
So by your rationale, if you had someone who consired Satan to be a genuine, concious anthropomorphic deity and chose to worship that deity using the ritual and dogma of The Satanic Bible,


How, exactly, could one possibly do that? If they view and worship Satan as an athropomorphic deity, then such actions go directly against what's stated in The Satanic Bible. The dogma presented in the book goes directly against the idea of worshipping an externalized deity.

And if they're flipping right to the back of the book to perform the basic Satanic Ritual or one of the conjurations as if Satan was real, then they're ignoring the entire Book of Belial and are taking things completely out of context.

 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
One believes that a deity exists outside of thier immediate physical realm. The other believes that no such thing, with the individual being the deity.

But the ritual and dogma used by both people is identical.


Oh no they're not! Do you even know what the word "dogma" means?

And as far as ritual goes, even if you look at old versions of the alleged "Black Mass" upon which the Satanic Le Messe Noir is based upon, or the various general "circle" rituals that inspired the standard 13-step Satanic ritual, you'll see that key parts were changed so as to make it compatible with Satanism's (dare I use the following word) dogma. There are no notions of bowing-down or self-sacrifice in the rituals found in LaVey's books.

 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
The Satanic Bible does say that MOST people don't believe in Satan as an actual deity. It leaves room for the handful of lunatics and nutters (read: devil worshippers) that believe that Old Nick is real.


That hardly means that the book was written for such people too.
_________________________
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http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
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#238685 - 04/26/07 01:07 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: Bill_M]
Fagneto Offline
The Weakest Link

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 273
Loc: CT
Satan is real...a real bumper sticker, a real figure-head, a real symbol of pride (and other lovely "sins" ) AND really great in bed. Satan is as real as liberty, freedom and all forms of power. Satan is "real" just like Peter-Pan, Darth Vader and and all the other fictional idols I have on my chest.

If you want to call Satan a demon, god or deity...be my guest. I think you will be able to hear the roaring laughter from the army of REAL GODS on this earth.
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#238701 - 04/26/07 04:14 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: Fagneto]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 855
Loc: Australia
I love the way you express yourself!

 Quote:
If you want to call Satan a demon, god or deity...be my guest. I think you will be able to hear the roaring laughter from the army of REAL GODS on this earth.


Well said!
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#238710 - 04/26/07 08:41 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
If someone believes in the Christian Devil then they are a Christian. Christians are not Satanists.

To believe in something like that, without evidence, is to commit the sin of Self-Deceit. This is most certainly not Satanic.

It is possible for one to be a Satanist and believe in the Devil, if one were to be in an environment where the evidence for a Devil outweighed that againt it, but I do not know of such a place.

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#238716 - 04/26/07 09:40 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8265
Yes, there is something you can do about it. Read Magister Nemo's post below titled Read & Understand ...and understand!

You can parse words, slice and dice all you want. It still doesn't add up, and doesn't amount to anything. It is an argument for the sake of hearing an argument... Read and understand!

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#238721 - 04/26/07 10:11 AM One more time. [Re: ]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
http://www.satannet.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=78163&page=1#Post78163

You are taking things out of context.

If I did that with your posts here I could demonstrate that you think you think you have a barbed tail and horns.

If you have another agenda you might as well spit it out and get it over with.

If not, then read and understand.

There is zero confusion on this issue.

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#238731 - 04/26/07 10:38 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8265
And yet, you argue that someone who believes in an actual devil and uses parts of the Satanic Bible is a Satanist. Hmmm....

I will join Magister Nemo in asking what is your real motive for this. We have seen far too much of this arguing minutae that accomplishes nothing on this board.

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#238743 - 04/26/07 11:03 AM Re: One more time. [Re: ]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
 Quote:
There is indeed no confusion on the issue, but i was trying to suggest that there was printed example of how confusion may have been been possible. Thank you.


Only for those who will take things out of context.

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#238744 - 04/26/07 11:09 AM Not so. [Re: ]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
 Quote:
...to educate oneself on the finer points of Satanism...


However this is not one of "the finer points of Satanism".

This is one of the most obvious and repeated fundamentals of Satanism.

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#238745 - 04/26/07 11:16 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
Practice and Belief are two seperate things, you do not practice a belief.

If one were to believe what is written in the Bible, they would be a Christian, regardless of whether they followed the rules it sets out or not!

If they were to not follow the rules they would be a poor Christian, but still a Christian.

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#238749 - 04/26/07 11:25 AM Re: other "finer points" [Re: Nemo]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
In your introduction you wrote:

 Quote:
I discovered Satanism a number of years ago, and have read the Satanic Bible innumerable times. Some of it was already familiar (i have also read Nietzche and Ayn Rand, plus literature from Ragnar Redbeard) but it's core philosophy was one that i found i was already practicing. It was me, it was what i was already doing. By points both humerous, sad, touching and apathetic, i found myself in agreement with it's core philosophy.


I finally noticed your last words "core philosophy".

Perhaps it is time for you to spell out what elements of Satanism you do not consider part of "it's core philosophy".

That may clear things up here.

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#238763 - 04/26/07 12:53 PM Re: other "finer points" [Re: ]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
No one needs to practice Greater Magic to subscribe to Satanism any more than any one needs to wear a Baphomet or black.

However this seems to not be the issue here.

There are four books in The Satanic Bible. I do not recall reading anywhere that one of these is considered "core" and the others are somehow lesser.

How did you come to assume that?

What if, instead, each is required and in the order given to build a full understanding of what Satanism is?

Just a suggestion.

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#238800 - 04/26/07 05:38 PM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8265
I will be the judge if I need to be suspicious. If you can't handle the heat in the kitchen, you are welcome to step out.

As I stated, we have seen plenty of this before. Its been hashed and rehashed, over and over. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck......If you can't understand that, it falls on you.

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#238816 - 04/26/07 06:09 PM No. [Re: ]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
 Quote:
Thank you. If one was to take both this advice and the advice given about the other books, one could read all of them, and then chose to excise the elements of the ritual chapters as he see fit providing that the rest of the philosophy was adhered to in able to balance the entirety of what is being practiced.


I did not say you could excise anything from this religion.

I said you did not have to personally use Greater Magic.

I did not say you could deny Greater Magic is a part of Satanism for those who do wish to employ it.

Whether you can accept Greater Magic is real or useful in your own opinion is your problem.

"Squibs" and "Muggles" are welcome here too. ;\)

That Greater Magic remains a part of this religion as a more sophisticated tool along with all the other tools that comprise Satanism is a fact.

If that tool is not one you wish to employ that is just fine.

However it is part of the toolkit, like it or not.

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#238916 - 04/27/07 10:29 AM Re: No. [Re: Nemo]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
 Quote:
"Squibs" and "Muggles" are welcome here too.


But they will never be as ELITE as US!!! Mohahhahaha!

Hah…ahm… yeah..

_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#238933 - 04/27/07 11:21 AM Re: Satan doesn't exist. Probably. [Re: ]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Always looking for a loophole. \:>
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#239038 - 04/27/07 08:29 PM Re: No. [Re: ]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 855
Loc: Australia
If you deny greater magic you reject Satanism.

 Quote:
i respect but do not choose to practice the ritual side of what Anton LaVey put forth


Respect it? Do you acknowledge it as part of Satanism?

 Quote:
one could read all of them, and then chose to excise the elements of the ritual chapters as he see fit providing that the rest of the philosophy was adhered to


Without ceremony and dogma it's just a philosophy.
_________________________
HAIL SATAN!

One LIFE - One chance



Who are We?

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#239134 - 04/28/07 10:07 AM Re: LaVey & Ayn Rand [Re: Sir_Trojan]
Citizen Gift Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 58
Loc: Orange County, California
"Here you will find truth-and fantasy. Each is necessary for the other to exist; but each must be recognized for what it is"- Anton Lavey; Preface to the Satanic Bible

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