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#23929 - 02/06/04 04:26 PM Re: a one-legged-man and a supermodel [Re: Jack_Bauer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


In other words, whether you are a victim or in control of your life, including your thoughts, depends on your level of awareness, reflection and consciousness.

No.

In other words, wether you are a victim or in control of your Life (and thoughts) depends on your CHOICES.

It is not about awareness or reflection alone. You can be completely aware of your flaws/unproductive thoughts, yet choose not to take control of it and stay in your passive role of "victim".


I made a simple point. Why are you trying so hard to make it more intelligent or complicated than it is? I thought my point was quite clear.

Like I said before, it is all about CHOICES.

We have a choice.

ALWAYS.

Simple.

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#23930 - 02/06/04 06:14 PM Re: a one-legged-man and a supermodel [Re: Ringu]
CPayne Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 984
Loc: Fargo, ND.......no, it's not l...
if you mean that you cannot choose which thoughts step into your mind then you are absolutly correct

*cough* Maybe you can't......

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: Control your mind or let it control you.

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#23931 - 02/06/04 06:21 PM Re: Perfectionism [Re: Wile_E_Quixote]
Redhead Offline


Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
Quote:

A perfectionist strives to create what is perfection to them. It is a self-imposed rule system.




I believe you're wrong. It is a pattern of behavior imposed by others in the forming phases of one's life (see Troyzr's line

Quote:

I am perfectionist raised by perfectionist...




- that's why people at some moment actually discover that they function in this way - such as GreenGrove described here.


Quote:

It's a compulsion and it would be a good idea for you to try and agressively teach yourself to learn when to stop




While I absolutely agree with your idea, I think that the approach ( agressively teach yourself ) is counterproductive. The main problem most real perfectionist have is inability to relax, take it easy, take it as not such a serious issue.

Basically, they are too hard on themselves - there is too much agressively imposed attitude (regardless that it aims them to right direction and good results at work/school) in them already. It needs to be balanced with the generous amount of relaxed, "so-what-if" attitude.
_________________________
Hail Satan! If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein

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#23932 - 02/06/04 06:40 PM Re: Perfectionism [Re: TrojZyr]
Redhead Offline


Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
Quote:

I too am a perfectionist, raised by a perfectionist, who was raised by a perfectionist.




Don't let that stop you from changing! Some great Satanist I know were raised by Christain who was raised by a Christian...nothing feels as good as breaking the vicious circle


Unfortunately, the society actually supports perfectionism - after all, it does results in excellence, and if you drained yourself completely in the process, it is your loss alone. I have recently been to a public lecture by a very intelligent psychiatrist, who said he's horrified to hear people saying that they are perfectionists with sense of pride - happily admitting that the result (and the accompanying praises) are positioned above their personal wishes, moods and so on.

The fact that proves this attitude is everpresent in so many today is the antistress program that you mentioned here. Striving for perfection, even if it means sleepless nights to get that formulation in paper correct (though the professor will forget it the moment s/he reads it among dozens of others, and most likely will you in time), to name but one behavioral pattern that disregards one's primal need for sleep - results in high stress, that will in some time result in slow development of psychosomatic symptoms.

After all, anti-stress program on institution where most people are in their early twenties, are there cause they have chosen to, and should have plently of time to have good time and fun too - wouldn't be necessary were there not putting themselves under much more pressure then the administration part does.
_________________________
Hail Satan! If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein

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#23933 - 02/06/04 06:51 PM Re: a one-legged-man and a supermodel
Anonymous
Unregistered


I wonder who would win that fight?

Hail Satan!

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#23934 - 02/06/04 06:54 PM Re: There are no "perfectionists", there's only me [Re: Nemo]
Redhead Offline


Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
Quote:

Do not confuse what you are with what you do.









Though your argumentation of this line goes in a different direction later on, I think this is a statement of utmost importance for perfectionists.

You'll be as smart/successful etc. if you don't give your best all the time. After all, to err is human - and it is exact those small imperfections that I find so charming and that make those real personal traits.

Dare to throw away the mask of perfection. It is, apart from hiding things you fear to show, keeping some wondeful spontanious things hidden as well.
_________________________
Hail Satan! If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein

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#23935 - 02/06/04 07:39 PM Re: Perfectionism [Re: Foxy_Ramirez]
Kurgan Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2441
Loc: Land of the Midnight Sun
I think the only time perfectionism might take from the magic is in the middle of a ritual.

In TSB Anton LaVey talked about an old magician he knew who ran out of words during a ritual, and in order to keep his emotional response generating he quickly adlibbed the first emotionally provocative words that came to mind - a few stanzas from a poem by Rudyard Kipling, and was then able to complete an effective working.

If perfection isn't doing the trick then spontaneity will do just as nicely.
_________________________
[color:"white"]In Ferro Veritas[/color]

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#23936 - 02/06/04 07:56 PM Re: Perfectionism [Re: Kurgan]
Foxy_Ramirez Offline


Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 207
Loc: Lawrence, KS
I remember reading that somewhere, but I don't exactly remember where. Bleh. I think, as long as you don't try to over-do your ritual, you should be fine. Too much concentration can sometimes lead you to think too much on how your doing your ritual rather than working towards the outcome.
_________________________
"There is a beast in man that should be exercised, not exorcised." ~ Anton Szandor LaVey

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#23937 - 02/06/04 10:37 PM Re: Perfectionism [Re: Kurgan]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
Or as I once heard it put, "Fake it 'til you make it".
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www.vampiretemple.com
Are You One Of Us?

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#23938 - 02/07/04 12:08 AM Re: Perfectionism [Re: Caesar]
Foxy_Ramirez Offline


Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 207
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Of course. I've heard that saying one too many times. You know the only reason people say that is because people never do it. XP
_________________________
"There is a beast in man that should be exercised, not exorcised." ~ Anton Szandor LaVey

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#23939 - 02/07/04 12:31 AM Re: Perfectionism [Re: Foxy_Ramirez]
CPayne Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 984
Loc: Fargo, ND.......no, it's not l...
That reminds me of Dr. LaVey's other essay on music. He talked about people who were more concerned with how the music sounded rather than the music itself.

Magic is like a lot of things: it's a means to an end. And, also like a lot of things, you can't get too focused on the means. You'll wind up ignoring the end and defeat the whole purpose.

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#23940 - 02/07/04 06:17 AM Re: a one-legged-man and a supermodel
Jack_Bauer Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1524
Loc: Germany
Before you can make a choice, you have to:

- be aware that you have a choice at all
- reflect on your possible alternatives

And then you have to choose consciously in order to not choose according to unconscious patterns of belief.

We are in the same boat, Dymfna. You can always approach the truth from several perspectives.
_________________________
~ Suum cuique. ~

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#23941 - 02/07/04 06:17 AM Re: a one-legged-man and a supermodel
Jack_Bauer Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1524
Loc: Germany
There is no fight.
_________________________
~ Suum cuique. ~

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#23942 - 02/07/04 09:00 AM Re: a one-legged-man and a supermodel [Re: Jack_Bauer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Before you can make a choice, you have to:

- be aware that you have a choice at all
- reflect on your possible alternatives


True. What's your point though? I never said this is not true.

In your first reply you said:

In other words, whether you are a victim or in control of your life, including your thoughts, depends on your level of awareness, reflection and consciousness.

I still say that is not the case.

Wether you are a victim or in control of your life, including your thoughts, depends NOT on your level of awareness alone (like I CLEARLYstated in my previous reply) but on what we DO with that, which CHOICES me make.

Being aware is one thing. Choosing to take control is another.

It is all about choices. I think I was being quite clear


And then you have to choose consciously in order to not choose according to unconscious patterns of belief.

Sorry, that sentence made NO sense WHATsoever to me... Must be because I'm a Dutchy

Care to elaborate?

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#23943 - 02/07/04 11:09 AM Re: a one-legged-man and a supermodel [Re: CPayne]
Ringu Offline


Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 144
Loc: NRW, Germany, Earth
Well of course you should try this - but you mean you are always with that successful in every situation? - I think in some few situations it is more harder.
_________________________
every causation has its own special effect

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