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#240263 - 05/03/07 10:41 AM Re: ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence [Re: TheNaturalForce]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11460
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: HoundDog
What are your thoughts on intelligent extraterrestrial life?


I don't rule out the possibility, and agree that the stories and "documentaries" are entertaining. But speaking as a Satanist, I must say that I see too many mystics wrapped up in the subject, and that in turn means they regurgitate a lot of mysticism back into the subject. So it's pretty much overrun with New-Age garbage.

The anecdotes of alien abductions are about as believable as the "Satanic Cult" abduction stories during the Satanic Panic of the 80s, both of which are largely due to false memory syndrome (where ideas are planted in the subject's head during a state of hypnosis, using suggestive questioning). The abductees also always describe the aliens as anthropomorphic. This doesn't make any sense biologically, because a species coming from a completely different planet isolated from ours wouldn't have had the same unique path of evolution to have a human-shaped body.

For these hard-core alien believers, their belief fulfills the same needs that religion used to provide: externalized deity, the sense-of-something-greater, fantasy and awe elements, etc. Back when humans didn't know what was in the clouds, in the oceans, or inside of the earth, they developed notions of underworlds, sea monsters and rain gods and what not. So the "final frontier", being an unexplored place, offers a place for these ego projections to manifest again. Questions about the physics of space travel, or the probabilities or reasons for why an alien would want to visit the earth, are either dismissed or rambled away in more mysticism.

Then you have the Scientologists and such groups who claim to be part of some alien race that visited the earth at some point and interbred with the species, or were reincarnated into people today, or individuals that claim to have had sex with aliens, etc. I find that to be not only an extended example of human's need for fantasy and dogma, but even worse, it also stems from some people's need to feel superior or special, or simply give justification for being socially retarded. "Now why I know I never got much dates or got to play in any reindeer games. It's because I'm the nephew of Gleepglop of the Googol galaxy! Good think I paid that hypnotist $500 to find this out."
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#240269 - 05/03/07 11:03 AM The Galaxy Song. [Re: TheNaturalForce]
Wile_E_Quixote Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 2493
I think Monty Python said it best......



Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.

Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.

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#240289 - 05/03/07 02:35 PM Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Discipline]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12407
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Carl Sagan?

When he died I celebrated the fact!

An excellent speaker with a clearly brilliant mind, he still chose to support the status quo of studied ignorance over the true potentials of science in the very fields he championed for the popular media.

I also have a long-standing problem with anyone who promotes "recreational" drug use as he was purported to do according to this.

(See the section under "Social Concerns" where this issue and the declaration that an effective anti-missile system - such as those now being installed - was "impossible". I will not discuss political issues in public but Sagan's arrests as a peacenik played into the Soviet propaganda at the time. Very little in this world has been as anti-Satanic in nature as Soviet Russia was).

Purported drugee, peacenik, and sellout to true science.

He has been dead a bit more than ten years.

Good riddance.

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#240295 - 05/03/07 03:49 PM Re: ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
TheNaturalForce Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 511
Loc: The Vibrant Garden
 Quote:
I think it is pretty much a certainty that there is "intelligent life" elsewhere in the universe. If my understanding of evolution is even half correct, then the evolution of life is a given, under certain circumstances. I would assume the same is true of "intelligent life". I do wonder what you mean by "intelligent life", however. My cat and snake have intelligence, as do my wife, son and I. Each is different, but intelligence, nonetheless. Are you asking if we believe that there is intelligence, in the way humans are intelligent?


Intelligence is everywhere on this planet. Jane Goodall for example had discovered that chimpanzees make tools for use in foraging for food. Sea animals such as dolphins and whales are known to have complex languages. I too have seen intelligence in domesticated cats and dogs. Each cat has its own personality and some are very clever. Humans are different though. We have science. We can leave the planet.

I am more interested in the opinions and thoughts of LttD users about the possibilities of Extraterrestrial Intelligence. It would be a mistake to assume that alien life would resemble life on this planet in any way.
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#240297 - 05/03/07 03:56 PM Re: ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence [Re: Mr_Atrox]
TheNaturalForce Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 511
Loc: The Vibrant Garden
Well, the word "intelligence" may not be the best word to describe the idea to it's core, but it is the word most generally used in the subject. Maybe ExtraTerrestrial Civilization would be more suited here. Then again, you could say ants are civilized to a certain degree with their organized work forces and armies.
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#240299 - 05/03/07 04:42 PM Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Nemo]
Fagneto Offline
The Weakest Link

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 273
Loc: CT
Well seeing as Carl was who first introduced me to my love for space (one of my first loves) I can not say I have any care for what mistakes he made in life or science.

Yes yes...there are many "drug users" who I love within the history of science or art. yes I know the more "militant" minds of Satanism often cut mental ties from all drug users of the past...but, I can not when it comes to great artists or lost pirates of thought.

I first learned of space from Carl and I have to thank him there.

I see you still allow him the grace of being "brilliant", I love that. I also notice your major problem with him seems to be the fact that he refused to leave the calm waters of "common ignorance" within his area of study...no crime there.

I can allow a dead man his crimes if he sparked my mind in a way I can never forget.
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#240328 - 05/03/07 08:54 PM Re: ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence [Re: TheNaturalForce]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
I still say that when we start moving out into the galaxy the thing we will find most of is ruins. I find it odd that people always assume that whatever intellegent life that may evolve in other parts of the galaxy will do so on a concurrent timeline with us. At the other end of the spectrum would be sentience that has far surpassed us in technology and and morphology. Would we even recognize them if we saw them? Would they bother to announce themselves if they saw us? I often see people remark that they would not wish to waste time talking to someone that is unteachable and belligerent. Why would such beings bother wasting time with us? So all we will truely find is ruins, civilizations that, for one reason or another, didn't make it.

If we are really lucky we will find the ruins of a civilization that is far more advanced than us, and didn't make it. We could at least take their technology and get a boost.
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#240331 - 05/03/07 09:30 PM Re: ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence [Re: TheNaturalForce]
Babydoll Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 850
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
What are your thoughts on intelligent extraterrestrial life?


Gliese 581 c may be a good place to start looking. And if nobody's home, maybe we could move in ;\)
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#240333 - 05/03/07 09:36 PM Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Fagneto]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12407
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
 Quote:
I can allow a dead man his crimes if he sparked my mind in a way I can never forget.


Since he will remain dead that is just fine with me as well.

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#240334 - 05/03/07 09:38 PM Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Nemo]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Ha ha ha!

So Mr. Sagan smoked pot. Perhaps he was too stoned to actually get off his butt and start looking at other ideas seriously.

He championed the status quo and pushed people to never doubt those in charge of mainstream education.
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#240335 - 05/03/07 09:38 PM Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Nemo]
Fagneto Offline
The Weakest Link

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 273
Loc: CT
HAHAHAHAHA!
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I am forever in the shadow of my crime, and for that I ask for punishment but only of the level I earned. I ask to not be removed from the place I find truth. I have been a very small creature, and have no excuse.

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#240349 - 05/03/07 11:19 PM Re: ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence & peanut butter [Re: Chess]
Isabel23 Offline
CoS Magistra

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 2037
 Quote:
Show me a place where you think there can't possibly be peanut butter, and I will say "peanut butter as you know it". Therefore, you have peanut butter in your ear. QED


You may have forgotten about young children.

Now you may go back to your more serious discussion.
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CoS Magistra

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#240350 - 05/03/07 11:26 PM Re: ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence [Re: Bill_M]
Isabel23 Offline
CoS Magistra

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 2037
Someone might take the cue from Robert Anton Wilson and write up another science fiction world where all those crackpot theories are true.

It would make my brain feel like exploding.
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CoS Magistra

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#240405 - 05/04/07 08:45 AM Re: ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence [Re: TheNaturalForce]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6996
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
What I hear you asking is, what are our thoughts on the possibility that there is intelligence on other planets (or possibly an agreeable moon?) with developments similar to our's. In that case, my answer is still "yes". Since I believe that our evolution is determined by a natural prgression, as apposed to outside guidance, or "creative design", my opinion is that similar developments are found on planets with the conditions found on Earth.

Just my opinion...with the caveat that this is not my field of expertise.
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#240535 - 05/04/07 11:42 PM Re: ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence [Re: TheNaturalForce]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
Why wouldn't there be? I have read a few books by Erik Von Daniken, who wrote Chariots of the Gods and others. In one book he actually went through the numbers about how many planetary bodies could theoretically harbor life and it was immense. Another aspect is that we should refrain from arrogant thinking that we are the only form of intelligent life in the universe. If we are, then that would be a terrible waste of space and nature wastes nothing. We can also look at the vast species that populate this planet. I know that it is never good to have definitives either way, in this subject or in any other. Think about it, at one time the most brilliant minded men thought that the Sun reveolved around the Earth, before that men thought the Sun was pulled across the sky by RA. It just simply amazes me that the more we understand, the less we actually know. It also doesn't surprise me that man with his ego thinks that he is the intelligent species. Dolphins are intelligent too, maybe more intelligent since they don't trash their environment. Beings that live on another planet may not have the technology to contact us, but does that make them any less intelligent? If beings on another planet knew of us and could contact us, maybe they just simply have no interest to...

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