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#24349 - 02/03/04 04:52 PM
Skepticism, materialism, and the unseen
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Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 93
Loc: Huntsville, Alabama
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Do you feel that Satanism requires a belief in the supernatural in any way? Certainly there is nothing in the 9 Satanic Statements that says so, nor is there in the Books of Satan and Lucifer. However, it is obvious that Anton LaVey believed in and used magic, and fully half of TSB is dedicated to the ritual and magical aspect of Satanism. Then again, the 7th Satanic Rule of the Earth says that you should acknowledge the power of magic IF you have used it successfully to obtain your desires.
So, could someone who lives and enjoys his life on his own terms and respects what Satan represents as per the 9 Satanic Statements and lives accordingly, but has no belief in the supernatural and smiles inwardly at talk of magic and the unseen, could/would this person be considered a Satanist? Because if the consensus is that magic is an integral part of Satanic belief, then I may have to reject the title of Satanist.
_________________________
"I am elite because I am not on welfare. I am elite because I ritually sacrificed my television set and bombed a McDonald's. I am perfect. I'm the REAL Satanist here, and you're just a useless pathetic piece of shit herdling. You disgust me."
--the hopelessly ego-deprived jackass
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#24352 - 02/03/04 05:52 PM
Re: Skepticism, materialism, and the unseen
[Re: GoldenCalf]
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Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
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Magic is not a "supernatural" thing. I think all humans utilize magic whether they realize it or not. I think most Satanists practice magic because they have a natural desire to so.
If you don't have the desire to practice magic yet are still a satisfied person who enjoys their life then who cares what somebody would lable you? Live! That's what it's all about.
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.
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#24354 - 02/03/04 06:14 PM
Re: Skepticism, materialism, and the unseen
[Re: GoldenCalf]
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CoS Magister
Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 3289
Loc: Burlington, VT
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3 Feb XXXIX A.S.
Quote:
Because if the consensus is that magic is an integral part of Satanic belief, then I may have to reject the title of Satanist.
Understanding my answer to this requires that you know that magic comes in both Lesser and Greater forms. I'll assume you've read up on this and know it, so...
If we step away from Lesser Magic and simply talk about Greater Magic, then the answer to your query is no. Greater Magic -- that is, ritual magic -- is there if you want it. If you don't, then toss it aside. Unlike many aspects that define what a Satanist is, feeling you have to engage in ritual practice -- a compulsion, mind you -- is not one of them. I know plenty of Satanists for whom ritual hasn't even the slightest bit of interest -- many of whom are Church of Satan members, as well as certain members of the hierarchy. And, sometimes, an over-interest in it can point to a pseudo-Satanist, or even what we'd called a "First Phase" type (which you can read up on if you do your homework).
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#24356 - 02/03/04 08:00 PM
Re: Skepticism, materialism, and the unseen
[Re: GoldenCalf]
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CoS Member
Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1844
Loc: Lycopolis
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Satanism does not require a belief in anything, save the faith one should inherently possess concerning one's natural abilities. The word supernatural(emphasis on 'super') loses meaning within the context of Satanism. It simply cannot exist there and the reason is quite simple. It implies the existence of something and that something usually requires a blind(ignorant acceptance) belief of one sort or another. If there is no Satan and God does not exist(or any gods for that matter)then, it follows, that all observable phenomenon are merely extensions of our 'normal'(natural) world. An useen world peopled by 'supernatural' beings,occurences,and all such pertinent nonsense have only continued to exist because the human brain has yet to evolve past this stage in our progression. That progression will happen, it isn't a question of IF. The word magic,or more specifically the term Greater Magic, is just another handle with which to grasp at an obscure part of our natures that 'feels' unknowable. It can readily be explained away as pragmatic,emotional catharsis, and if that suits it's user's purpose then more power to them, for it can certainly be a useful tool along that aspect. However, my personal opinion is that that notion can be rather limiting. The source: who you see in the mirror. The possibilities are either there or not dependant upon that same individual. Sound like alot of magical nonsense? Sure, why not? One final comment:Magicians might be more in need of a belief in magic than Satanists. In either case taste and enjoy your own aesthetics, but beware the illusionist.
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#24357 - 02/03/04 09:39 PM
Re: Skepticism, materialism, and the unseen
[Re: J. Hagalaz]
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CoS Member
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
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I like this answer very much.
We are the Gods of this world.
Its our choice.
I hate it when people try to convince me that there's some sort of "system" that is supposed to make it all happen, or some book, or some particular practice.
It is absolutely our choice, through and through. We are the Masters and the Source, and can choose any magic we want or no magic at all.
It doesn't matter what that choice is, if we ourselves are "the Source".
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton
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#24360 - 02/04/04 02:20 AM
Re: Skepticism, materialism, and the unseen
[Re: GoldenCalf]
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CoS Reverend
Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10761
Loc: England
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I think along the same lines as a number of people have already stipulated, that it really depends upon how you wish to look at it.
I do not hold with any of the holographic universe claptrap and simply hold that it is a mechanical process. Even if we cannot completely explain the mechanism, there does indeed appear to be some sort of domino effect which can be set in motion due to the fact that results have proven this. I do not see it as supernatural; more as a natural, though largely unexplainable, aspect of the carnal realm.
All humans practice lesser magic. The Satanist's heightened awareness and more conscious application of this aspect of magic is a sure key to greater success than the herdlings.
Ritual magic is there if you wish to employ it, or if you simply enjoy it. Ritual magic is not an absolute prerequisite. But it can be fun, and I think due to the nature of the human mind, it does help focus one's will and determination. But as The Satanic Bible indicates, you cannot perform it and then sit on your arse - you must take steps to compliment your ritual in the real world.
_________________________
Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
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#24361 - 02/04/04 04:49 AM
Belief?
[Re: GoldenCalf]
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CoS Magister
Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 13175
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
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Quote:
Because if the consensus is that magic is an integral part of Satanic belief, then I may have to reject the title of Satanist.
There are no Satanic "beliefs".
But there is magic.
So what should that tell you about the nature of magic?
Hmmmm?
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#24362 - 02/04/04 06:17 AM
(hypothetical dialogue between three great minds)
[Re: GoldenCalf]
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CoS Member
Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2441
Loc: Land of the Midnight Sun
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Newton: "Magic is energy."
Huygens: "No, magic is psychology."
LaVey: "Correct."
_________________________
[color:"white"]In Ferro Veritas[/color]
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#24363 - 02/04/04 07:22 AM
Re: Skepticism, materialism, and the unseen
[Re: CPayne]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
If science of the present was the magic of the past, wouldn't it stand to reason that magic of the present is the science of the future?
But where would that leave you and I? Beings who somewhat rely on the fact that not everyone has the knowledge that we possess...? I think it would make the playground a bit tougher to manipulate. Then again, there will always be a heard for the stalking.
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#24364 - 02/04/04 07:54 AM
Re: Skepticism, materialism, and the unseen
[Re: Quaark]
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CoS Member
Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 37
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Daark Excellent! A post to take to the bank. Perhaps a "pushpin" is in order(?)  IA .º.
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