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#24385 - 02/03/04 08:50 PM The Public School of Christ
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
I live in a Christian town. In fact, there are only two adults here who do not go to one of the fifty churches in this little town. My wife and myself. To put things in perspective, my wife and I are the only people in this town who DIDN'T sign a petition to put prayer back in public school.

The school that my kids go to is a public school. I want my kids to go to a school where they don't have to be pressured into believing something they don't wish to believe in. I want them to think for themselves and come up with their own ideas about religion and to choose their beliefs based on what THEY think and not what some one has brainwashed them into accepting.

Well, it seems like they are getting robbed of that opportunity now even at a public school. Their music teacher (who happens to be over the music ministry at one of the churches) has a habit of "sneeking" religion into her lesson plans.

According to my oldest son and daughter, she has preached about how "god heals bruises" and how "god gives you new teeth when you loose your baby ones", and how " The Lord gives us miracles" . She has them learn "Jesus Loves Me" on their recorders. The rest of the daily lesson is a god damn tent revival!

Now, I know I could confront this teacher and probably fix the problem but because of the way people talk out here, it would get around very quickly that I am "keeping my kids from God". I don't want my wifes family to know my feelings on this issue. Let's just say that there are certain benefits in them not knowing. Benefits I don't want to lose.

I have considered sending an anonymous letter to the board of edjucation. However, I'm afraid that it would be a waste of time since the superintendant goes to the same churc(es) that all of the other teachers go to! I don't want to just ignore this either.

My question: Have any of you beenthis situation or a similar one and how did you deal with it? Were you able to keep your beliefs (or non-beliefs) secret? Maybe if I read other ideas I can come up with the right solution to this problem. Either way, this teacher needs to be put in her place and I want to be the one who puts her there. This is an issue my wife and I have been discussing for some time now and we really want to know what our options are.
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They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

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#24386 - 02/03/04 09:25 PM Umbrella Schools [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Wonka Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 638
Loc: The City of Red Lights
A good idea would be to remove your children from the situation altogether.

Search for "Umbrella Schools". If memory serves me right, these are similar to home schooling without all the hassle. They could also go under other names like Independent Study Programs, Distant Learning Programs, Cyber/Virtual Schools, Charter Schools, etc.

These are usually provided by Christian private schools, meaning their material will be dripping with morales and religious views. On the up side of that, there are no teachers pushing it down their throats. That gives you room to influence your children as you please and to easily fake some of the Christian hoopla.

Lying: A good life skill to teach your offspring.


It would also work great with your family or neighbors. God-less public schools just don't teach children how to be a good Christian and it shows you want to spend more time bonding with your family.

That'd look impressive to anyone in your area by the sounds of it.
_________________________
Believe Nothing. Test Everything.

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#24387 - 02/04/04 12:19 AM Re: The Public School of Christ [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Captn_Thatch Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
Quote:

According to my oldest son and daughter, she has preached about how "god heals bruises" and how "god gives you new teeth when you loose your baby ones", and how " The Lord gives us miracles" . She has them learn "Jesus Loves Me" on their recorders. The rest of the daily lesson is a god damn tent revival!




But if she had to teach religion, she probably couldn't do that either.
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton

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#24388 - 02/04/04 01:37 AM Teaching Pigs to Sing. [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
I just posted this the other day in another thread.

Mandatory Education. ~ Blanche Barton.

If you don't like the assholes infecting your kids minds with bullshit, take them out of the contaminated environment.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#24389 - 02/04/04 04:11 AM Re: The Public School of Christ [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Josephine007 Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 620
Loc: Zero Point Field
My question: Have any of you beenthis situation or a similar one and how did you deal with it?

I have a few times (I have two boys 12 & 13 as well as a baby on the way). I dealt with it the first time by an official full out confrontation and letter to the principal on how that particular incident was unacceptable behavior for a public school and what I intended to do about it if it EVER happened again.

I scared the crap out of them (especially when I mentioned the ACLU and a lawsuit).

However, last year my son came home and comented that the teacher allowed two girls to sing a few religious songs in the classroom during a holiday party at school. I could kind of tell he wanted me to REACT again and make a fuss. I simply shrugged and explained that it was one thing for him to have been punished and lectured as was what happened the last time vs being tolerant of some nitwits yammering about their god. I went on to tell him that the world was chock full of these nitwits and they were going to be praising Jesus and all sorts of other things for the rest of his life so he had better learn to WORK with that as opposed to have a knee jerk reaction to any and everything religious. I also paraphrased something that I had heard from another Satanist that made sense: It is one thing to identify and evaluate the inconsistancies or beauty inherant in any system of belief. It is quite another to become so fanatical about it that your immediate reaction is a gag refelx vs an intelligent analysis and evaluation (my 13 year old is a 'scientist' so these words made sense to him.

Were you able to keep your beliefs (or non-beliefs) secret?

Absolutely because I approached it from the LEGAL speration of church and schools and not a religious perspective. I could tell they wanted to know but they couldn't ask....lol

Maybe if I read other ideas I can come up with the right solution to this problem.

I know there is a Christian religion...somebody help me here...the 7th Day Adventists? The Mormons? Something like that....that are pretty opposed to any religion in school as well. I recal something along the lines of they opposed mandatory pledge of allegiance because to them the flag was a graven image and one was not to worship ANY graven image. I can't recall which denomination it was but there ARE xian groups that oppose religion in schools. Perhaps you could dig into that a little.

Either way, this teacher needs to be put in her place and I want to be the one who puts her there.

WHY? THis is the paart I do not understand. The reason I made a fuss the first time it happened was because my son was actually punished by a teacher and then lectured as to why he was bad. My son came home in tears completely confused. He had said, "God Dangit" UNDER HIS BREATH and the teacher gave him detention and lectured him on how that was taking the lord's name in vain. According to school rules that was NOT breaking any rule and she had NO right to punish him and THEN preach to him about it. BUT....in other cases religion does seep into everyone's daily life and IF you live in a town like that it seems highly more useful to be honest with your children about what they will expect later in life and how to deal with it intelligently and to their advantage.

Please don't raise another generation of rebels without a clue.
_________________________
Josephine Seven
Cherchez La Femme
"Test Everything. Believe nothing."

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#24390 - 02/04/04 04:21 AM Re: The Public School of Christ [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Insurgent Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2318
I could give you a lot of opinions but I can only say do what you think is right and contact either www.au.org or www.aclu.org and bring attention to the situation in your town.

But by all means be anonymous! Even pretend you are opposed to the actions you cause to happen when conversing amongst others who, I'm certain, will bring it up if there is legal action threatened or filed against your town's school system.

It may be a good idea to compile a list of incidents, obtain a copy of the petition, and any other information that may be used in a court of law. This will push said organizations into helping.

Good luck, I hope you win your fight if you fight at all.
_________________________
My site: www.josiegallows.com

"My dear Insurgent you're an extremist, intolerant and you have prejudices. That's all."

"I am a fucking Satanist and desire in all of my being to be the Queen of the World if at all possible...."

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#24391 - 02/04/04 04:32 AM Re: Teaching Pigs to Sing. [Re: Felstorm]
Ringu Offline


Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 144
Loc: NRW, Germany, Earth
Well that or you still could your kids let decide - if you are younger you still like everything at all. But i guess until they grow up they will figure out their own way. I live in a bigger city at all and here are not fifty churches located *laugh* just 3 or 4. In my younger years i went to religion lessions to and in the church - but this what not a too bad lession for myself - i realized that i neither was a christian nor i am today.
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every causation has its own special effect

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#24392 - 02/04/04 06:39 AM Sleeping with the Inquisitors [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Perhaps you recall the relevant quote in discussing real witches versus the ones who were generally burned.

How could you accomplish your goal without being targeted by rabid evangelicals?

How could you accomplish your goal without ever mentioning your religious views to anyone?

A question correctly asked almost answers itself.

I wish you the very best in choosing and implementing a satisfactory and suitable answer.

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#24393 - 02/04/04 12:48 PM Re: The Public School of Christ [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I went to Christian school from the ages of 7-11.

I sang hymns, went to Church on a Wednesday and yes, said prayers.

Perhaps it might do some good to stay in the system and be taught to deal with the bullshit rather than mollycoddle them. I know it benefited, rather than damaged me. I never once believed in the god I was praying to, and I was never once "infected".

If they are exhibiting behaviour that's against the law or indeed, the constitution; you have a whole legal system to threaten them with, and yes, you can do it anonymously.

And as for education: you can always homeschool. I know that when I have children I intend to split their education with mainstream schooling and the things I can teach them. After all, that's what I believe a parent should be - preparing your child for the world, and teaching them everything you think they should know.

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#24394 - 02/04/04 01:13 PM Re: The Public School of Christ [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sheltering your children from views opposite of your own, if I may be so bold, sounds a bit like a christian practice. Why would you be concerned with them being brainwashed if you have given them the tools they need to make their own decisions? The religious are always going to be around spouting their "message" to those who will listen and a moderate amount of patience is neccessary to move about in the world. I'm not advising what you should or shouldn't do, just reminding you to choose your battles wisely.

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#24395 - 02/04/04 04:22 PM Re: The Public School of Christ
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Quote:

Sheltering your children from views opposite of your own, if I may be so bold, sounds a bit like a christian practice. Why would you be concerned with them being brainwashed if you have given them the tools they need to make their own decisions? The religious are always going to be around spouting their "message" to those who will listen and a moderate amount of patience is neccessary to move about in the world. I'm not advising what you should or shouldn't do, just reminding you to choose your battles wisely.




I'm not concerned that they will be brainwashed. On the contrary, they take it as a joke. The thing is, they don't want to hear it. They shouldn't have to. They hear it enough from their family. There is a place for religion and public school isn't that place. If they want to learn about Jesus they can read the bible. I have two different versions here at home if they are interested. I also have a copy of the SB. If they choose to ever read it all they have to do is ask.

My children don't want to be preached to when they go to music class. Now I know that in the real world people have to endure things that they don't like, but if you want to and are able to do something about it then you should. Thats just how I feel.

I appreciate everbodies advice and I will at least consider what everyone has suggested. Thank you.
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

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#24396 - 02/04/04 05:23 PM Re: The Public School of Christ [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Scratch Offline


Registered: 09/30/03
Posts: 207
Loc: Austin, TX
I must say, that truly is an outrage.

Now, if you don't want to use my methods, there's always homeschooling or you could move...but the drawbacks to those would be readjustment (for the WHOLE family) and resentment from other community member (and perhaps your wife's family) for taking those actions. Undoubtedly, they will question your decision, and if it's a good school, what will you say?

As for MY first choice, I will PM it to you promptly.
_________________________
"Stupid people do stupid things... smart people outsmart each other... then themselves." --DDevil-SOAD

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#24397 - 02/04/04 06:54 PM Re: The Public School of Christ
Scratch Offline


Registered: 09/30/03
Posts: 207
Loc: Austin, TX
You're right; children should be allowed to make those decisions on their own, but at a tender age, the child's mind is impressionable.

Many seek out acceptance by their peers before they even know who their peers truly are. Before they are bombarded by the pressures of social interaction, they must be sure of who they themselves are. It's important for children to know that they don't need acceptance so long as they are satisfied with their lives.

Depending on the kids' age and level of maturity, the parent may decide whether or not the child is ready to make their own decisions. It's natural for a parent to want their child to make healthy decisions. It's a parental instinct to protect their child both physically and mentally, though you would be right in saying that it should be carried on only to a certain extent. Once a child knows the basic hows and whys of society, it may be time to let them start learning from experience.

However, here in the US, one is responsible for raising the child until the age of 18. I'll just leave the actual parenting for the parents to decide.
_________________________
"Stupid people do stupid things... smart people outsmart each other... then themselves." --DDevil-SOAD

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#24398 - 02/05/04 07:47 AM Re: The Public School of Christ [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

I'm not concerned that they will be brainwashed. On the contrary, they take it as a joke. The thing is, they don't want to hear it. They shouldn't have to. They hear it enough from their family. There is a place for religion and public school isn't that place.




Ah, well that is entirely different and I am inclined to agree with your opinion. The whole problem lies in the words public school. The implications of such an adjective are hard to avoid. No matter how sterile of bias people attempt to make a public place, the views and prejudices of the given majority will always be evident. I don't like it any more than you do, but honestly if it hasn't changed yet, you certainly have your work cut out for you. Best wishes in whatever course of action you choose to take.

Quote:

My children don't want to be preached to when they go to music class. Now I know that in the real world people have to endure things that they don't like, but if you want to and are able to do something about it then you should. Thats just how I feel.




I also agree with this. Have your children actually voiced their desire to their educators? It's odd the way adults expect children to have strong convictions about their beliefs, yet most of them always assume that those beliefs are consistant with their own. You and I may be aware that children have their own ideas and opinions about such matters, but it's obvious that their music teacher doesn't. She wouldn't openly force her dribble on a classroom full of adults I guarantee.

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#24399 - 02/06/04 06:02 PM Re: The Public School of Christ
Redhead Offline


Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
After so many advices there's nothing to add.

But the reason I am writing this is that I was, in my primary education, in the exact opposite situation than described here.

Growing up in communism meant religion was out of public life - all religious holidays were plain ordinary working days, and in school subjects relating to human development religion was described as a result of man's fear of (at first) natural forces, and later as a projection of man's idealised picture - as a phase in human development that has been overcome through evolution (both physical and mental).

Imagine those Christian families' agony to explain to their offspring coming from school that Jesus actually did exist, was born by a virgin etc !


So next time you read of communism as a devil's own system from hell, think of some Satanists out there (or right here ) who, accordingly, enjoyed some benefits of it.
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Hail Satan! If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein

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