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#25743 - 02/12/04 02:05 AM Satanism/Paranormal
WvlfBlitzkrieg Offline


Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 72
Loc: Dallas,Tx
OK....i've been a Satanist,a non-joiner,for awhile..over the past 3 years I have been doing paranormal investigations on a scientific level...no mediums or psychics here,...I have ran across alot of evidence on a scientific level that leads me to believe there may be life after death to some..everything from pics to video to EMF meter spikes and audio recordings..the audio is the most suprising...the human voice cannot speak under 120db...but i've picked up pure english at far beyond that...anyway...i have a question to other Satanist that do not have this proof or Data(or do)....what is your opinion or your idea on the general Satanic opinion on "ghosts" and life after death?...surely I never want death...and I'm sure planning on life after or being a "ghost" is too hit or miss to plan on....but whats some of you folks opinions?
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#25744 - 02/12/04 02:53 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
First I congratulate you on your efforts to validate and verify these kinds of strange phenomena.

Second, I will gently advise you that there are varied opinions on this topic amongst Satanists.

I would urge you to ignore opinion and continue to seek validation. Should you become a Church member you should know that there is an entire forum devoted to this subject below these lines here. Furthermore there is at least one formal study group of which I am aware with similar interests.

I would suggest you would do well to not argue with staunch skeptics as this only further polarizes the opinions expressed. Instead continue to explore and discover what you can about this amazing thing we call "reality".

My own opinions are hardly fit for those who have not already walked several miles along the same path of investigation and personal study and I am not here to cause rancor nor needless (and pointless) debate.

I will say this. The greatest mysteries in our world are wrapped up with what is called the "paranormal" but any honest investigation of all the facts available decries the paranormal as being anything other than the normal!

It is just that what is normal is far weirder than most people have the slightest inkling!

Good luck on your efforts!

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#25745 - 02/12/04 03:00 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Bumbly3 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 1591
Loc: East Midlands UK
All I will say is this. I agree whole heartedly with Nemo's post.
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#25746 - 02/12/04 04:57 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I wholeheartedly agree with Nemos post.
I am as big a sceptic as you could imagine, but Ive come across things I couldnt explain.
One question, for you, for everyone that likes to make this assumption.:
Assuming 'ghosts' exist, what makes you think they are 'the spirits of the dead'?
We know very little aboutr our universe on a relative scale, they could be anything. Extra dimensional life forms, Some sort of non carbon based life. Ripples in timespace. Some sort of other weird timespace phenomenon. <insert theory here>
'The spirits of the dead' seems to me to be less plausible than any of these.


Edited by Dan_Dread (02/12/04 04:57 AM)
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#25747 - 02/12/04 06:05 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Happy Birthday Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10566
Loc: England
It is indeed a difficult area to examine. Even more difficult to formulate theories.

My own thoughts regarding the problem of validating something such as an afterlife are that whilst we ourselves are in this particular realm which we call reality, there is the distinct possibility that it is our own psyches which bio-electrically generate the very phenomenon which we are seeking to study. I believe it really could be that simple fact that it is our own thought forms coming to fruition.

It is certainly evident that in many areas of reality the willful direction of our energy can have a direct effect externally.
This may also be the case in your area of study.

This is just an idea which I personally seriously consider a possibility.
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#25749 - 02/12/04 05:42 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Roxxxadelic Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 67
Loc: Seattle
Be sure not to correct for Occam's (or Ockham's) Razor..."The simplest explanation is usually correct".

Recordings, video images and so forth are usually recorded using electronic devices, which are notorious for picking up interferance from stray radio signals, both video and audio.

If you find something odd? Do everything you can to prove it's not something supernatural.

Shield your equipment. Use non-electronic means to measure, and cross reference with your results with your electronic equipment.

Attempt to hypothesize simple provable explanations for your observations and then test those hypotheses.

Be a Skeptic...and if your observations survive all that, well, then you have something there.

Observations of paranormal can come from a lot of sources beyond the truely paranormal...including:
* Stray radio energy from your local broadcast station
* Ionispheric reflections from distant radio stations.
* Emotional hope for something 'after death' altering ones perceptions.
* Hoaxes, practical jokes.
* Odd acoustic condiction from a different area
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#25750 - 02/12/04 07:27 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
I am the type that always seeks out scientific answers to anything and everything. That does not mean I haven't seen things I've been unable to answer. So when it comes to such things like ghosts and a cosmic energy force I'm like a ajar door. Easily closed but slightly open enough to let strong proof through. Not believing but still doubting.

I do however support those who investigate and research the paranormal. I feel the more they discover or not discover the more we know and understand the cosmos.

Keep up the good fight.
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"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

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#25751 - 02/12/04 10:37 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Roxxxadelic]
WvlfBlitzkrieg Offline


Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 72
Loc: Dallas,Tx
OH yeah..being a skeptic was one of the 1st things i learned..the best evidence comes from multiple positive data at the same time..I do practice extreme skeptisism over everything..its the best way to be.: )
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#25752 - 02/12/04 11:50 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
SeeTheDark Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 54
Loc: Somewhere...
Interesting topic.
I agree with Nemo's post.
To add to it, I would like to mention that science can, and has been disproven. What has been considered solid evidence is, in itself, a measureable quantity as defined by rules and regulations based on various hypothesis and data. For example, many people in the past believed that the world was flat, and that the earth was the center of the universe. Modern science has disproved such things, but "modern science" may also one day be disproven itself.
Essentially, a lot of it is dependent on exactly what you "want" to believe. Sometimes other forces get involved.
Do what works for you, but I would recommend keeping that skeptical attitude, it's something which is not only a dangerous weapon, but also a valuable asset.
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Test Everything, Believe Nothing.
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#25753 - 02/13/04 12:18 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Dan_Dread]
WvlfBlitzkrieg Offline


Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 72
Loc: Dallas,Tx
oh i agree..there are many different possible theories and such..and thats part of what drives me on to further investigate the paranormal.Its true that we know very little about the universe.So this being my time to live it's very important to seek answers as best as I can..i may not have another chance.
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#25754 - 02/13/04 12:36 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Nemo]
WvlfBlitzkrieg Offline


Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 72
Loc: Dallas,Tx
I totally agree,no reason to debate in most situations..i know what i know from my own studies.No reason to defend ideas or theories that surely are nowhere near complete: )


and very good point on paranormal actual being normal(more or less)besides,if it wasn't "normal" would it even happen at all?

thanks for the insight
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#25755 - 02/13/04 06:26 AM A pleasure [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
to share.

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#25756 - 02/13/04 12:50 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: ]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
The truth is in your experiences.

That is a rule I live by.
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#25757 - 02/13/04 02:20 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Caesar]
Jack_Bauer Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1524
Loc: Germany
Quote:

The truth is in your experiences.



That would mean that every subjective and personal experience is the truth.

Is that really the case?

When you take LSD and experience something, would you go so far to declare what you experienc as the truth?

Just curious.
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#25758 - 02/13/04 02:37 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Jack_Bauer]
Prince_Satanicus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 1556
Loc: KNOXVILLE, Tennessee, (THE BLA...
I realize this post wasn't directed at me but if I may I will say that I have been considering exactly that question. Is everything we experience, including so called hallucinations,real, if only to ourselves? Are the creations of our own minds real or are they simply chemical reactions to a certain substance or imbalance of brain chemicals?
If they are just hallucinations caused by chemicals then what is the true test of "reality"?
These are some questions I have been considering lately.
The nature of reality and everything. I have begun reading some of Professor Stephen Hawkings lectures and I must say that they are very interesting and thought provoking.
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#25759 - 02/13/04 03:11 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Scratch Offline


Registered: 09/30/03
Posts: 207
Loc: Austin, TX
I do believe there is some sort of life after death. Perhaps it is that after death, a person's thoughts and energy continue to reverberate like the ripples in a pond when the stone has fallen. Perhaps they may even exist on a level where the person is still conscious and willful of their actions after the physical body has expired.

Honestly, I don't know what to attribute the strange occurences of paranormal activity that have been recorded throughout history, but I think it highly possible that some of those who claim to bear witness to such happenings aren't just BSing to get people to look their way.
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#25760 - 02/13/04 06:32 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Prince_Satanicus]
Blackheart Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 389
Loc: England
I read something recently which suggested that everyone has a different perception of reality because our sensory organs are actually unique to us. For example, people have different favourite colours because every individual actually perceives colour in a different way.

So if this is true, who is to say what "experiences" are true, if everyone's experience is completely unique to them?

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#25761 - 02/13/04 09:45 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Foxy_Ramirez Offline


Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 207
Loc: Lawrence, KS
This is a topic that usually runs around instinct. I believe that most magic and spirits rest on an astral realm. The astral realm is what the material realm lays on. That explains why magic can interact with spirits, they are stacked like a two-story house. I trust my instincts and try to hon them by practicing mind readings and such. If you work on it hard enough, you should be able to get in tune with your instincts and natural surroundings, even those that can't be "felt" by your usual senses. This might sound like a bunch of bullshit, and I won't deny that it might be. I am quite recent in attempting to do this sort of study, so it might just be my mind playing tricks on me. But when I told a kid at school his general situation with his life, stuff that I shouldn't know, it seemed to scare the crap out of him. It's also a part of just telling people what they want to know, and reading their body language. Body language picks up on that sixth sense just as much as it does on the other five. I dunno though, just my opinion. PM for more if you want, I got a neat theory, but I don't like typing it out unless I have to, I hate wasting my time.
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#25762 - 02/14/04 12:06 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
I haven't done any hard scientific pursuits of "paranormal" phenomenon. Not with scopes and meters and cameras or anything on that level. I've been kind of drawn to places that are supposedly haunted. I find out about a house or something that has a reputation for supernormal activity, I usually make a point to go and poke around and see what it's all about.

Most of the time it's nothing but an old house that's run down.

But there is a local warehouse that I toured one summer night. It was rather run down, but well-lit inside, it had sodium lights that were on all the time inside. It used to be an old grain elevator and feed factory. Several men lost their lives in the place, usually from a several story fall from the upper levels. Locally it is merely known as "The Factory". It burned down back in the 80's when fertiliser stored within caught fire, and a fireman was burned alive inside the building. I shouldn't say "burned down" because the superstructure of the building is still intact. After the fire, the place was refurbished, and another man died when he fell down a newly constructed stairway. One of the new stairs broke under his feet, and he landed directly on top of his head. Dead instantly.

My late night foray into this building had some rather interesting experiences. Within a few minutes of entering the building with two of my companions, one an atheist, the other a "Christian" but I use that term loosely. My atheist friend wandered off to take a leak around a corner, the Christian and I both definately heard a moaning/screaming sound, like that of a woman being raped. A kind of noise that raises the hair on the back of your neck. We both "heard" the noise, and when my atheist friend returned, we questioned him as to whether or not he heard it. He didn't, so we blew it off as "active imaginations".

We wandered down to the far end of this building which would fit two football fields inside easily. We took the stairs up a level to some old gangplanks and what used to be a trolley system for hauling around grain/fertiliser. We walked around and not much of note happened. We took the last set of stairs up to the top "level" which consisted of mere a bunch of boards attached to the ceiling by rebar supports. We walked from one end of the building idly conversing, talking of past exploits and adventures. And then it got really cold, really fast. Cold enough for us to visibly see our breath, this was in August and it had been 90 degrees that day. We decided to leave after this, and made our way for the exit as hastily as possible, once on the ground floor it was warm once again, and as we got half way to the exit all three of us heard a very audible scream/wail. That's when we started running to the door. All three of us heard it, that much is for certain. What it was I don't know. That's my only "ghost" kind of experience.

I have seen other strange phenomenon. One was from a man I learned some Tai Chi from. I'm not sure how he did it, but he could hold his hand about five inches away from your skin and you would feel a tingling or burning sensation. He claimed that it was a direct application of "Chi" energy. I've yet to explain that one as well.

From all that I can tell there very well may be an afterlife, but I have no empirical proof of this, so I'm not going to wager on it being there. I still remain very skeptical of people touting telepathy or telekinesis, tarot readers, and daily horoscopes. 90% is horsepucky. It's the other 10% that keeps me fascinated.


Edited by Felstorm (02/14/04 12:08 AM)
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#25763 - 02/14/04 04:29 AM 10% [Re: Felstorm]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Yes. That can make all the difference.

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#25764 - 02/14/04 05:35 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Foxy_Ramirez]
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
I'm based in a similar place as you, but I don't go for the whole mind reading thing.

The only "psychic" ability I know to be 100% true is remote veiwing. The government uses it, people can be trained to do it. I'm learning. The astral plane very well COULD just be a huge trick of my mind. We don't know enough about the human brain yet to know that for sure, and won't know 100% untill we die. Untill it's either proven that the brain can cause you to astrally project, and see things from literally a completely different perspective, even look at yourself, or untill I die, I'll subscribe to the theory that it's real.

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#25765 - 02/14/04 06:40 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Felstorm]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

I have seen other strange phenomenon. One was from a man I learned some Tai Chi from. I'm not sure how he did it, but he could hold his hand about five inches away from your skin and you would feel a tingling or burning sensation. He claimed that it was a direct application of "Chi" energy. I've yet to explain that one as well.




I've experienced that tingling before too, only with me it was with an indigenous friend who called it something that translates roughly to 'spirit energy'. It was eerie in all the things he shared with me of his culture in that they somehow correlate with the Eleven rules of the Earth.

One instance being of a time when we'd been fishing and I'd thrown a dead fish back into the water and all the birds on the shore started squawking really loudly. A coincidence perhaps although he said it was because I'd killed something and hadn't eaten it.

I tend now towards thinking of his understanding as being more in tune with nature than our western way of thinking.

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#25766 - 02/14/04 08:32 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal
RobertE Offline


Registered: 08/31/03
Posts: 607
Loc: Michigan
Quote:

Quote:

I have seen other strange phenomenon. One was from a man I learned some Tai Chi from. I'm not sure how he did it, but he could hold his hand about five inches away from your skin and you would feel a tingling or burning sensation. He claimed that it was a direct application of "Chi" energy. I've yet to explain that one as well.




I've experienced that tingling before too, only with me it was with an indigenous friend who called it something that translates roughly to 'spirit energy'. It was eerie in all the things he shared with me of his culture in that they somehow correlate with the Eleven rules of the Earth.




I had a similar experience with a christian pastor. They (xian pastors) refer to it as being "slain in the spirit". They believe they're a conduit for the Holy Ghost to pass from their bodies into whomever they "lay hands upon". I had watched such things on Benny Hinn (and other) shows before and had always wondered what it was really like to be on the receiving end.

The time came for me, to be "slayed", the pastor asked if I had prayed and been washed clean (said yes, of course), he then anointed my head with myrh (I think) then mumbled some mumbo jumbo (tongues) and laid hands upon my head and shoulders.

Instantly it felt like my entire body from the neck down had "fallen asleep" (pins and needles). I lost control of my body and had to be caught and laid down. The tingling seemed to travel in waves down my body, always stopping or starting at my neck. This went on for a good 5 minutes, then slowly faded away.

Despite all the body tingling, chanting and prayers, I didn't win the lottery, family members didn't get better. So much for the holy ghost

Although it didn't prove to me the existence of a higher deity, it truly showed me that someone with intense focus and intent can do some fairly interesting things with nothing but the energy of their mind. For someone going into it as skeptical as I was, it was quite the experience.

I would be fairly interested in seeing some sort of MIR/CAT scans of a pastor's body during the whole process, and seeing the same scans of a church member as the hands are laid upon them.

Hell, I'd even volunteer to do it again, the tingling felt pretty cool.
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#25767 - 02/14/04 10:16 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Blackheart]
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
I understand what you're trying to say, but I think what was being conveyed there had more to do with the way the brain percieves green, and less to do with alternative planes of existance.

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#25768 - 02/14/04 10:40 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Jack_Bauer]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
When you take LSD and experience something, would you go so far to declare what you experienc as the truth?

That is an extreme example, but even still, you would believe the experiences in question to be true enough to act upon them until you experienced otherwise, at which time you would know those experiences weren't true (if in fact they weren't).

"Objective" and "subjective" are terms we made to interpret reality as we know it, not as it actually is.
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#25769 - 02/14/04 10:49 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Caesar]
Foxy_Ramirez Offline


Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 207
Loc: Lawrence, KS
That is completely wrong. It is the doubt of your experiances and those that filter through that shows truth. You simply can't assume everything you experiance to be truth. Just like it says in the SB, you gotta doubt the things around you, and what is knocked out by doubt is most likely true.
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#25770 - 02/14/04 11:48 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Foxy_Ramirez]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
Yes, doubt is an essential tool, to be used at all times when experiencing anything (especially in regards to things previously beyond one's present experiences).

At the heart of the matter is perspective, which shapes and colors the world you experience. Like someone who wears "rose colored glasses", thinking that everyone in this world generally has good intentions. Unless too stupid and stubborn to realize otherwise (and many of these there are), their experience proves to them this is not true, and the lens of their "glasses" changes its hue. This is called the school of hard knocks.

If you don't learn from your experiences, you will wish you had.

If you don't know what you know from experience, then what better way do you know of obtaining the "truth"?
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#25771 - 02/14/04 12:15 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Caesar]
Foxy_Ramirez Offline


Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 207
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Experiance, I think, is much like the dreaded God word. It can meaning everything and nothing at the same time. It can cover something that it can't, and in its basic meaning, it can mean anything. But from my definition of experiance, which is anything you learn through doing an action, there are other ways to learn. You can learn from others mistakes, books, and occassionally trust-worthy TV shows (The history channel is awesome). And sometimes you should just know what the right thing to do is. It's always better to do it the right way the first time through, not learn from mistakes made. You can only make so many mistakes before you wind up paying big time for one of them, and that would be the biggest mistake of all.
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#25772 - 02/14/04 06:41 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Anonymous
Unregistered


My thoughts on this. It's cool to read your taking a purely scientific approach to this and not just faith. I have done somethings and have read ghosts stories in the newspaper. Especially of a hotel that has become popular because of ghosts there.
My feelings on ghosts. I'm not superstitious and I don't believe in a soul. And I am skeptical about alot of things. As it should be. I do, however give creedence to the idea of ghosts. Not an actual afterlife other than that of a ghost dwelling on the earth. This is how I would explain ghosts to people who would inquire of me. Not a definately. Only simply a theory which I in no whay hold as a definate truth. Noone who loves life truly wants to die. Anton LaVey relates death to a veil in the Satanic Bible. If a person loves life enough and opposes death as if he knew he might live just a little longer than he won't die. I try to explain ghosts from a purely Satanic veiwpoint. I view the ghost as a shadow or echo (or the actual person who didn't die but just left his body behind?). I don't belive it's the person's soul. Then again I could be wrong. There It doesn't matter much to me.
These are my thoughts.

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#25773 - 02/14/04 10:11 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal
WvlfBlitzkrieg Offline


Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 72
Loc: Dallas,Tx
Yeah,I dont see them as "spirits" either.My personal idea is that of energy.Seeing how we do have energy,even of an electric nature,within our bodies.Scientist have proven through the years that energy only changes shape.So what happens to our bodily energy when we die?

Thats my personal idea..and what i work on investigating on a scientific level.
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#25774 - 02/15/04 03:01 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Roxxxadelic Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 67
Loc: Seattle
Quote:

Scientist have proven through the years that energy only changes shape.So what happens to our bodily energy when we die?



A number of things can happen. Some of the energy within us is released as heat into the environment, as our body cools to the level of the environment.

The electrical energy utilized by our nervous system is typically converted into heat or chemical activity in the form of neurotransmitters.
The electrical energy in our body comes from a release of chemical energy.

When we die, a lot of the potential energy stored in our bodies in the form of chemical bonds is either released as heat via breakdown, or it's metabolized by various organisms as we are consumed.

Ok, that's a rather clinical view on what happens to us.

Personally, I suspect energy has little to do with who or what we are, beyond being the 'fuel' that makes us go. Of more interest to me is the more difficult to define quality of "complexity"...sort of the inverse of "Entropy".

Take a look at DNA, for instance. It's a collection of atoms, with a bit of binding energy holding them together. There's far more potential energy in a teaspoon of gasoline than in 48 strands of DNA, yet the complexity or pattern of the DNA has the potential to create a human being, who has the potential to do things far beyond the power of a teaspoon of gasoline.

So what happens to the 'complexity' and 'patterns' that make up a human when one dies? I don't know, our science hasen't evolved enough to describe that, altough chaos theory and other work are attempting to make progress in that direction.
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#25775 - 02/15/04 03:27 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Roxxxadelic]
WvlfBlitzkrieg Offline


Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 72
Loc: Dallas,Tx
Very good points indeed..interesting facts on the clinical side of things.I've actually been quite interested in that.Thanks for the info
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#25776 - 02/15/04 03:46 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Roxxxadelic]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Have you ever heard a ghost? Scientific explanations fail very short for those who have had such experiences. Ghosts can talk to us and act differently depending on our attitude. But it requires a lot of energy to communicate with them. You have to work, but like a child, discovering the world. Then you might have better experiences with ghosts!

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#25777 - 02/15/04 04:15 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Felstorm]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ghosts are external entities which we don't control. Their nature it's a mystery. Psychic powers like telepathy are underdeveloped faculties each of us probably have.

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#25778 - 02/15/04 05:52 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Prince_Satanicus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 1556
Loc: KNOXVILLE, Tennessee, (THE BLA...
That sounds close to my own findings. We are basicaly beings of energy. Our bodies and brains are run by energy, I have a theory that after the end of the body that energy could possibly come together as the being they were ,only in a different form.
It is of course only a theory in its begining stages.
_________________________
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"The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity"

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#25779 - 02/15/04 07:14 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Roxxxadelic]
Ringu Offline


Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 144
Loc: NRW, Germany, Earth
Thank you Roxxxadelic thats really a good post and also good information

Anyways i just want to post my opinion here and it might be similar with the others - i dont think that "ghosts" are really exists thats for me a bit to relative. I think more that the self in everyone of us is not related to the body - not really i t just have to use them to act in this world. So for me its kind of a vehicle. So until the time comes when all ressources are exhausted (we call this usually death) or if our body (the vehicle) might gets damaged inrepairable (also results in death) - then its usually the time when our inner self has to leave this place ( until now we should use our time on a intelligent way ). So im not a biochemic or genetic i dont can answer what happends in the process of dead with the brain and something like that - but i really think that this kinds of ghosts are just the "self"'s from other dead people - i like also the reincarnation idea, so you get your reincarnation and your complete personal and ego arent restored complete only the inner self is yours that points of specific informations and abilitys you might can develope or figure out in your next life. This reincarnation process continues until the self is prepared for kinda next stage/level. So all this things are of course just my sight and i cant give you any proof - maybe some things that could be a proof, for example that there exist people (usually called medium) that are high-sensitive and are able to connect there selfs to other selfs (so they can speak with dead people i guess this was often declarated in this thread as "ghosts"). Or also a proof can be that there are a couple of persons who talked about the death (people that were really near to it) but complete different people that talks about the same with the same stuff but have nothing todo with each other. Or maybe the fact that physical age has nothing to say about the inner self and that some people have a better understanding of the life as some other which are older. Also a proof could be that there could exist big differences from people to people. So this could be some kind of proofs but in the end just my opinion of it so enjoy or beat it - some replys please
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#25780 - 02/15/04 09:26 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Skyla Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 495
It’s funny and a little bit paradox that we all use the word “paranormal” or “supernatural” for such things, because if you think something goes furthermore the normal or natural you have first to clarify what is normal or natural and there are a lot of different possible answers. I agree at this with nemo’s posting completely and it had really surprised me, to read something like that written by someone else.

Anyway... In 1907 a Dr. Duncan MacDougall measured the weight of his patients while they were dying. He “found out”, that all human beings lose weight at the moment of death and a lot of people believed immediately it’s the weight of souls leaving their dead bodies. Nowadays we know that the ability to measure changes in weight were too imprecise in the past and the results are therefore questionable. I think in maybe 50 years we say the same about the methods we use these days. For that reason I decided not to take it too serious if somebody tell the world he is able to prove whatever.

An other point is, that it is often simply unimportant to know exactly (!) what something is or how it works. There are a lot of things I actually don’t really understand in everyday life too. Do you exactly know why a freezer freeze? I’ll be honest. I don’t know much about the required technique in freezers, but I know a) there exists a freezer in my kitchen b) how and for what I can use it and c) where I have to go, when it doesn’t work. So... In my opinion its often more important to answer a) b) and c) for the so called "supernatural" things in life too than to find a universal provable truth.
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#25781 - 02/15/04 10:27 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: SeeTheDark]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
>>To add to it, I would like to mention that science can,
>>and has been disproven.

...by science itself. That's what's great about the scientific method: it's a self-refining system. If a proposition is not up for debate, then that's religion, not science. I've noticed lots of people who seem to use the scientific method in reverse: starting off with the conclusion or final explanation, then trying to find little piece of data to support that conclusion, while rejecting everything else. Creationists are notorious for this. I get skeptical of people who take this approach and try to pass it off as science.

One of the only items that science "takes on faith" is the assumption that there exist phenomena that are objectively detectable, predictable, and repeatable. I think most (though I'm certainly not about to say "all") experienced dealings with ghosts are subjective - not very predictive, not seen by everybody, etc.

From a sort of "Satanic 3rd Side" persepective, I would say that bold claims do demand hard evidence, but at the same time I don't completely dismiss non-scientific subjective experience as invalid. I've certainly experienced strange things that I don't feel comfortable passing off as coincidence (especially with Greater Magic), even though to most outside viewers it would seemed as such. But if it doesn't break down my mental walls of reality, and it makes my life more fun and interesting, I don't see what the problem is.
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#25782 - 02/15/04 03:08 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal
Roxxxadelic Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 67
Loc: Seattle
I've never experienced a ghost myself, although I try to keep an open mind.
I do think using the term 'energy' with respect to ghosts may cause us to make incorrect assumptions. To me, energy is
something very specific, which follows certain laws of physics.
Energy, along with matter, are what we're taught in physics class...up to the graduate level. It's all just energy and matter.

However, there are other things in our universe that are of interest. Things like 'information' and 'complexity'...things like 'Entropy'.
My intuition tells me that those are the areas we should look for understand of things like consciousness, ghosts, etc.
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#25783 - 02/15/04 05:55 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: RobertE]
mystigirl Offline


Registered: 11/19/03
Posts: 28
Loc: south of France
I have not seen but heard strange phenomenon too. I had my villa built in the country side in the South of France in a very peacefull area.So it was a recent house. The first whole year we had manifestation at 11PM all most every night coming from the wooden staircase, we could hear light young foot steps going down stopping a few seconds at the door way, going up and fading away.
Some nights we could hear mettalic noises from the door handle.
Mean while I had my son's Jewish friend 16 years old use to stay with us at weekends (we never told him about the odd noises) One night I was out and came back at 3AM. I find the two boys shocked about weird sounds and laughters coming from my sitting room. A few weeks later the Jewish boy died in a very tragic accident. Bizarre enough the manifestations vanished in the same time. Was he related ?
To day I rent the house to a nice family nothing else occured.
I try to be a rational lady, but in fact I shall never find out what it was really ! I think in matter of paranormal concerning gost or phenomenon, by my pure experience what ever technical way you will use to search the truth. The intity will vanish as soon as you get closer.
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#25784 - 02/15/04 06:05 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Skyla]
Roxxxadelic Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 67
Loc: Seattle
I personally don't believe in the 'super-natural', but that may be because my definition of the 'natural' is quite broad, being 'anything that occurrs within our universe'.

I suspect the more common use is 'anything that can't be explained by modern theories'.

Given that definition though, I've always been a bit skeptical of people who attempt to seek out the supernatural without having a good understanding of the natural. My cynical view of those folk is that they are not trying to learn and expand the knowledge available to people in general, but that they working of the basis that 'knowledge is power' and are trying to find a quick way to gain knowledge that others in power don't have, generally to make up for a feeling of powerlessness when going about their life.

Beliefe in the supernatural gives you nothing. Doing the extra work, like WvlfBlitzkrieg is doing, gives you knowledge of how these potentially supernatural phenomena interact with the normal world. If you truely develope knowledge in that are, then you can use that knowledge to do things...that is where the real power comes.
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#25785 - 02/15/04 06:08 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Insurgent Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2312
I read your post and suddenly I had a flash back to my early days working with audio equipment when I first started to record my own music in a home studio.

A guitar amplifier picks up radio waves and will play them through the speaker, so will the pickups on a guitar. And so will any recording device that isn't made to absolutely not pick up outside frequencies.

I wager that your tests have picked up parts of radio transmissions. From CBs, a local broadcaster, or even someone's telephone conversation. I have picked up all of the above crystal clear with my amplifiers.

A funny story goes along with this. When it first happened I had just got this massive base amplifier and as I was walking away a male voice started coming through it. There were no other apliances on in the house because I didn't want their "waves" to mess with my sensitive pickups (a TV for example will seriously ruin a guitar's sound sometimes).

The voice coming through the amp was talking about war tragidies, nothing specific. Could it be from the future? I had no clue what was going on with it because I hadn't ever heard it before.

Hearing a commercial for fastfood a few days later confirmed that it was just local radio.

So, I have actual experience that makes me seriously doubt the existence of ghost noises on your tape decks or whatever instead of just never experiencing ghosts.

Recording devices will pick up slight and mumbled voices from transmissions, and they won't always be clear enough to differentiate from mere radio. But those noises I'd say with 99% certainty are transmissions.

My suggestion is to get a more scientific device than you have. Something far less prone to pick up radio waves or cordless phones. I'm sure they make something like that for a reasonable price.
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#25786 - 02/15/04 06:44 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Skyla]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
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"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#25787 - 02/15/04 07:00 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Insurgent]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
I remember back during one of your field exercises our comm tech decided to tap into "higher waves" which he claims were old radio waves that were bounced into the higher atmosphere where they became "locked". These "higher waves" could be decades old because they simply bounce around until the waves lost their strength. He set up his radio and then tuned in. What we heard next was very strange. We heard a man boardcasting about a Japanese assault. He spoke of events at Iwo Jima and troop movement as if it was all happening in present tense.

I have yet figured that one out.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#25788 - 02/15/04 08:07 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Discipline]
Citizen_Squish Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/27/02
Posts: 1422
Loc: California
Quote:

I remember back during one of your field exercises our comm tech decided to tap into "higher waves" which he claims were old radio waves that were bounced into the higher atmosphere where they became "locked".




Your communications technician was playing a joke on you.
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If people had wings, they would die on their backs, buzzing around in little circles.
-Uncle Fester, "Silent Death"

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#25789 - 02/15/04 09:20 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Citizen_Squish]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Maybe and if so, he did a good job. But none the less it was very strange. I don't know how he would have gotten someone to get on that frequency. That frequency was not a fill which means it was open to any listener. Also if he did have someone on a busy training frequency someone higher up would have caught it.

Maybe he was or maybe he wasn't. I looked up some stuff on it and I found some info but not enough to fully explain it.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#25790 - 02/15/04 10:50 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Insurgent]
WvlfBlitzkrieg Offline


Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 72
Loc: Dallas,Tx
OH yeah...my bass amp as well as one of my synths pick up radio when they are shutting down...but there is much more to it as far as EVP goes..the strongest evidence or data comes when you get a temperature change,EMF spike,or even video of an orb at the same time as the recording.Its also fun when you ask a question and you get an answer on playback....but you have given me an idea to try an record radio interference and run a spectrum analysis
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#25791 - 02/16/04 01:27 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Regarding life-after-death: I can't say I know the answer, but I can say that I, and most undoubtely anyone else in this world, will not find out until, well, after death. To me, it is a waste of time to "unlock" the secrets of life-after-death when we have so much time to enjoy life and, I would assume, an infinitum to enjoy the latter.

Regarding "ghosts" and the paranormal: I have no formal experience and limited knowledge on the subject, so all I can give is a biased, insignificant opinion floating from the bowls of my ignorant brain. Considering how many people study this subject, and how many of those people believe ghosts exist, I have to logically conclude that it is indeed very possible.

Keep up the good work! Good luck!

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#25792 - 02/16/04 04:37 AM Re: "not find out until after death"
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
But how shall we define death?

Heart beat stops? We have hundreds of thousands of people who have had their hearts stopped and are back from that "death".

Brain wave cessation?

We have had people who have flatlined on EEG and returned from that "death" also.

Flatlined for at least five, or ten or fifteen minutes?

But we have had people, usually children, who have been underwater for close to an hour who have come back from that "death" too.

Cremated or turned to dust.

Not yet but maybe soon.

My point is that we have a huge number of people walking around who by different measures were declared "dead" and have come back.

What's worse a good percentage report similar experiences!

Yee Gads! Quick kill them again before this becomes a problem!

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#25793 - 02/16/04 06:16 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Roxxxadelic]
Skyla Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 495
Quote:

I personally don't believe in the 'super-natural', but that may be because my definition of the 'natural' is quite broad, being 'anything that occurrs within our universe'.




Thx! That's exactly what I tried to say in my first paragraph.

Quote:

Beliefe in the supernatural gives you nothing.




To just believe in something is the same as to not know something. In my opinion its foolish to believe in (for example) ghosts, if you never see one in your whole life, just because you want to believe in ghosts. That's like someone says that he or she believes anywhere in Australia a man is screaming at the moment, if he or she doesn't really hear the scream of the man. But it's foolish too if you say, its impossible that in Australia a man is screaming at the moment, just because you don't hear a scream yet. I never saw anything I would call a ghost untill now, but I had some other experiences I can't really explain for myself. Therefore I think it's not impossible that ghosts exists too, but I'm not sure about this and I'm personal not really interested in ghosts, thats for me like thinking about if someone screams in Australia. Sure, it's possible but it's not important for me to know.

Quote:

Doing the extra work, like WvlfBlitzkrieg...




Oh... I had forget to say: If someone has personal experiences or for any other reasons a special interest in the topic, it's a good thing to do so. I hope WvlfBlitzkrieg will find, what she is looking for.
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#25794 - 02/16/04 06:49 AM Re: "not find out until after death" [Re: Nemo]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
++Yee Gads! Quick kill them again before this becomes a problem!++

"It's a trick! Get an axe." ~ Ash "Army of Darkness"
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#25795 - 02/16/04 07:53 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
To me, it is a waste of time to "unlock" the secrets of life-after-death when we have so much time to enjoy life and, I would assume, an infinitum to enjoy the latter.


There are some secrets "unlocked" by enjoying life.
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www.vampiretemple.com
Are You One Of Us?

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#25796 - 02/16/04 12:38 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Roxxxadelic]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Matter is the material from which we are made.

Energy is the power we use to do things.

Experiences are the information helping us to interact with our environment.

ADN is a biological memory which contains the biological experiences humans have had throughout it's existence. It's size means only that it is effective at storing many biological information, like computer memory which can contains many books.

Books are memory of the life of humans.

The problem with ghosts it's we don't know if they are made of matter, if they use any energy and if they use any information.

I'm inclined to affirm that they use information because they are able to reproduce human sounds. They are also able to move things, so they must use some sort of energy.

If I did a research on ghosts, I'd probably be more interested in their interactions with humans and the context of their apparitions. And I would measure biological metrics on a human when a paranormal phenomenom would occur.

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#25797 - 02/16/04 12:52 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just a question. A bass amp has no demodulator. How it can pick up radio emissions modulated at high frequencies and demodulates them to have intelligible sounds?

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#25798 - 02/16/04 02:58 PM Re: "not find out until after death" [Re: Nemo]
Anonymous
Unregistered


To add to that, I just recently read some articles regarding zombies in Africa. Scientists have deduced that this "witchcraft" was merely diluted poison from the puffer fish. A witchdoctor would give the poison to the victim, he would "die"( have no pulse, no brain activity, nothing ), and be then buried. The witchdoctor would then dig him up at the right time, being just before the victim ran out of air, and woke him up conviently with a voodoo magic.

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#25799 - 02/16/04 03:00 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Caesar]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't understand. Perhaps you can elaborate on the 'secrets' of life-after-death that can be unlocked by enjoying life?

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#25800 - 02/16/04 04:45 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal
DancingintheDark Offline


Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 745
Quote:


Energy is the power we use to do things.





Technically speaking, energy is the numerical rating we give to the state of a physical system. Power is the rate of transformation or transferral of energy. For example watt = joules per second.

We know that energy is equivalent to matter (E=mc2), and considering some of the odder experiences I have had, I have seen strange things happen with both electricity/light and solid objects. If it were the case that these incidents were caused by "ghosts", one thing is for sure... they can manifest or affect in either form with ease! However, I view consciousness itself as a form of energy, as I strongly feel it has an as yet unexplained ability to affect objective reality under certain conditions. If this were true, much if not all so called paranormal phenomena would be explainable.
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#25801 - 02/16/04 05:39 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal
Roxxxadelic Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 67
Loc: Seattle
If ghosts are in fact made of energy or matter, then they will likely follow the physical laws that govern energy and matter, such as the law of conservation of energy, laws pertaining to momentum, movement, energy transfer and so on.
We should therefore be able to build tools to measure them in a reproducable fashion.

If ghosts exist outside the realms of energy and matter, but can have a reproducable effect on energy or matter, we should be able to measure those effects in a reproducable fashion.

If ghosts exist purely in the realm of information, then they should be governed by the laws pertaining to that realm. Unfortunately, information theory is still somewhat in its infancy, and we don't have a good idea of those laws.

Additionally, we don't have a good idea of how information and the physical world interact, as that puts us in the realm of quantum entanglement, psychology, and so on. We are just developing the tools to measure these things, so we've still a bit to go.

What we really need is a 'law of conservation of information', that states that information itself can niether be created or destroyed, but simply moves within eleven dimensional space. If we had that, then we have a law stating that the information that makes up 'us' can never go away.
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#25802 - 02/16/04 07:27 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: WvlfBlitzkrieg]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Another idea regarding paranormality and the brain. I'm fairly sure this would fall under the catagory of "above normal": A starfish has a nervous system, but not brain. It moves, feels, touches, etc., yet has no brain to recieve these patterns. Can anyone explain this for me?

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#25803 - 02/16/04 08:26 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
There is not much I could tell you that you wouldn't be able to find out on your own, which is the only real way you could ever know.

Secrets are just that for a reason, and once you yourself know them, understand why they are so.
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#25804 - 02/16/04 10:04 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal
Captn_Thatch Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
Just thought I'd throw in the story of some living people who's heads were examined only to find that their brains were almost completely missing. Their brains were found to be nothing but the stem that connects to the spine and a small lump of tissue at the top end of it. Nevertheless, these people functioned at a level considered "normal", and reported no problems with operating in society. I can't remember where I heard this, but its something to think about.
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#25805 - 02/16/04 10:45 PM Re: Satanism/Paranormal
WvlfBlitzkrieg Offline


Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 72
Loc: Dallas,Tx
I have no idea..it happens when i'm turning the bass amp off for a split second..perhaps mine has a demodulator for some reason?
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#25806 - 02/17/04 09:51 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Captn_Thatch]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
I've gotten radio broadcasts through my bass amp lots of times. If the amp isn't picking them up, then maybe my bass pickups are. I sometimes hear radio stations on my telephone, too. One time that this happened, I reached over to my radio and managed to find which AM station it was.

>Their brains were found to be nothing but the stem that
>connects to the spine and a small lump of tissue at the
>top end of it. Nevertheless, these people functioned at a
>level considered "normal", and reported no problems with
>operating in society.

Sounds like a lot of people I've met...
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

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#25807 - 02/17/04 10:07 AM Re: "not find out until after death"
Prince_Satanicus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 1556
Loc: KNOXVILLE, Tennessee, (THE BLA...
The Serpent and the Rainbow. It's a movie about that very subject. Supposedly based on a "true" story.
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HAIL ME

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#25808 - 02/17/04 03:25 PM Re: "not find out until after death"
Professor_Sinister Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 752
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Quote:

To add to that, I just recently read some articles regarding zombies in Africa.




This reminds me of a sketch from Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life"...

"A Zombie ... in Africa? A ... Zombie ... in AFRICA?!"
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#25809 - 02/22/04 11:52 AM Re: Satanism/Paranormal [Re: Bill_M]
Captn_Thatch Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
Which of course opens up a whole other can of worms...

Meaning: so far I am unable to convince anyone that there is a physical connection between consciousness, matter and "magic". Yet if one of the three is not physical, then it simply can't exist. Which would mean that Satanism is pure philosophy.

Nerd Power!
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton

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