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#265502 - 08/17/07 08:32 PM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Virus9]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Virus9
But not all actions produce their desired result.

I do think I see what you're getting at, though. Basically what you're saying is that an action is to be judged on the level of success achieved in obtaining the desired result. I don't necessarily disagree with that.


Its simple: If someone shits on the rug, I don't care whether it was intentional or not, they aren't allowed in the house.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#265504 - 08/17/07 08:57 PM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Svengali]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
 Quote:
Its simple: If someone shits on the rug, I don't care whether it was intentional or not, they aren't allowed in the house.


Then the liberals would argue that we should all pitch in to buy that someone Depends.
Where's your sense of compassion?

_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#265509 - 08/17/07 09:12 PM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
 Quote:
Where's your sense of compassion?


Right next to the guy I just kicked out of my house for shitting on the rug.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

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#265535 - 08/17/07 10:54 PM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Drimlybunk]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
I'm just going to share a story I have with drug use:

So I was sleeping in bed naked next to my naked boyfriend and his dad came in fried on something and started to cuddle my boyfriend. My boyfriend got angry for obvious reasons and told him to get out. His dad then started to accuse him of doing drugs, he knew because he(his dad) had been there many times. My boyfriend then gave him an analogy explaining why he was mad at his dad for coming into his bed, and his dad got mad at him for using “big college words” like “analogy”.

Good times.
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Hi.

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#265572 - 08/18/07 05:14 AM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Svengali]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
ts simple: If someone shits on the rug, I don't care whether it was intentional or not, they aren't allowed in the house.


I find your obsession with incontinence a little disturbing so I'm going to shift to a real world example.

I was driving through a parking lot a few years back when a young woman pulling out of her space hit the side of my car.

It wasn't her action (pulling out of her parking space without looking) that pissed me off in that situation, it was the results (the collision and the huge dent in the side of my car).

Whether or not she intended to do it is irrelevant.

Had she performed the same action a couple seconds later she would have missed me. It wouldn't have even mattered then.

As I've said before, there are times and places to make judgments about intentions and actions, but results will always matter more.
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#265575 - 08/18/07 05:44 AM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Virus9]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
 Originally Posted By: Virus9

 Quote:
anyway just a quick look at yor average pothead should get the alarm bells ringing in any rational person.


So you can tell that someone smokes pot just by looking at them? That's a pretty neat trick. You'll have to teach me how to do that some time. ;\)


I was thinking more of people who I know smoke pot on a regular basis, and whom I have known over a long period of time....
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www.vampiretemple.com

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#265592 - 08/18/07 07:02 AM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Virus9]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Virus9
I find your obsession with incontinence a little disturbing so I'm going to shift to a real world example.


Its an inside joke. Don't get all Sigmund Freud on me. ;\)

 Quote:
I was driving through a parking lot a few years back when a young woman pulling out of her space hit the side of my car.

It wasn't her action (pulling out of her parking space without looking) that pissed me off in that situation, it was the results (the collision and the huge dent in the side of my car).

Whether or not she intended to do it is irrelevant.

Had she performed the same action a couple seconds later she would have missed me. It wouldn't have even mattered then.


Are you seriously trying to make an analogy between an accidental fender bender and someone who has a character flaw that makes them prone to drug abuse?

Give me a fucking break.

 Quote:
As I've said before, there are times and places to make judgments about intentions and actions, but results will always matter more.


No kidding. Some actions are accidental, some are intentional, some actions are indicative of character, some aren't.

Thanks for taking the time to point out the obvious and managing to keep it irrelevant and condescending in the process.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#265608 - 08/18/07 09:12 AM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
He's saying that being outrageous is essential to a black mass, and that this requires defying the conventions of the time. In giving as an example the decrying of drug dealers and the psychedelic movement, he is illustrating an outrageous contempt for the received counter-cultural wisdom of 1969. In 1984, in a climate of anti-drug hysteria, the psychodrama might have taken an entirely different stance on drugs. The theme here is not dogmatic attachment to or rejection of anything; it is a FORM of interaction with, and critique of, the larger culture through ritual. In other words, read the surrounding two pages if you want to attend to "the larger picture."

I don't know anyone who walks around in a trance. As for magic, as far as I know magic in satanism is just a metaphor for charm, skill, eloquence, style, etc. I can't say whether people in general who smoke pot are more or less charming or eloquent--I doubt that either generalization holds, but the people I know well enough to know their personal habits are of course charming and eloquent.

Someone who makes self-destructive decisions in a pattern of compulsive behavior is without self-control and therefore not a Satanist. But the same goes for someone who makes decisions based on authority, received wisdom, moral panic.... Maybe a clearer example is sex. Someone who abstains because the Bible or his mother says so is clearly being controlled in a sense, and so is someone addicted to sex (i.e. someone who pursues it at the expense of more important things). One can't say "doing X means being controlled"--such an assessment requires looking at the reasons for doing X, the circumstances, the values in play, and so on.

As for Mr. LaVey's stance on drugs (I don't know that he was a doctor of anything), he may well have personally abhorred them, but his opinions are not authoritative. Anyone who walks away from reading The Satanic Bible with the view that LaVey wanted, or would tolerate, having "followers" or people who cited his thoughts as legitimizing their own is just not getting it.

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#265609 - 08/18/07 09:17 AM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Helian]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8274
It is you who are not getting it. Take a hike.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#265610 - 08/18/07 09:19 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Nemo]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
Being imprisoned would suck infinitely and without qualification. But I thought some of the assertions being made were about doing drugs without regard to their legality. The picture doesn't evoke an explanation of why being an alcoholic or nicotine addict (both legal) is unsatanic. Also, if creating a risk of incarceration is unsatanic, then, since practicing non-state-approved religions is illegal in these countries, if satanism is a religion, it follows that in China or Saudi Arabia, being a Satanist is unsatanic. A lifetime of coffee abuse may have lowered my IQ, but I think that exposes a fundamental flaw in the argument.

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#265614 - 08/18/07 09:29 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Helian]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Dr. LaVey's stance against drugs is stated in more than one book and many interviews, and is unequivocal. I happen to agree with his stance, not because of the source, but because it is correct.

Even if drug abuse is legalized for the moronic herd, it is still incompatible with Satanism.

You are the one who does not get it.

As Magister Phineas has said: Take a hike.

Anyone else who does not get it should take a hike too.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#265616 - 08/18/07 09:43 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Svengali]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
Disagreeing with you is no reason to take a hike, or cause for rudeness on your part. My view is at least as carefully reasoned and presented as yours, and you have no special authority or expertise on these matters of differing opinions. And the more names you add to your own on the list of people who agree with you, where that is meant to make what you say more credible, the less credible any criticism of "herd" mentality is going to sound coming from the proudly unanimous chorus.

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#265618 - 08/18/07 09:47 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Helian]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
My. Some folks sure do like to dig.
_________________________
reprobate

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#265619 - 08/18/07 09:52 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Helian]
Magister_Harris Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 07/01/01
Posts: 1851
Loc: Long Island
 Quote:
since practicing non-state-approved religions is illegal in these countries, if satanism is a religion, it follows that in China or Saudi Arabia, being a Satanist is unsatanic. A lifetime of coffee abuse may have lowered my IQ, but I think that exposes a fundamental flaw in the argument.



Nope... no flaw there. This statement is 100% accurate. If Satanism is illegal in your country, then being a Satanist in those countries IS unsatanic. Remember that Satanism is a pragmatic religion, not an idealistic one. We do not require people to martyr themselves for the cause. In fact, many of us think that it's quite silly to do so.

The intelligent thing to do in such cases, if being a practicing Satanist means that much, is to leave the country in question.

Why are you so intent on breaking the law?
_________________________
Hail the Citizens of the Infernal Empire!
Hail Satan!
Magister David Harris
Host - Hate Speech Radio
http://www.hatespeechradio.com

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#265620 - 08/18/07 09:59 AM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Drimlybunk]
LanceAlton Offline


Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 116
Loc: Delphi
VERY good post!

My sentiments likewise -

At least once a week i find myself being the only sober person in the room. Once-upon-a-time this frustrated me to no end. I soon realized the power and comfort i gain from this. Control over ones self is already control over everything.

\:\) I just wish everyone would remember the conversations ive had with them. heh.
_________________________
"Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all."
-Friedrich Nietzsche


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