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#265621 - 08/18/07 10:01 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Helian]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 957
Loc: Flanders - Europe
Personally, I will be glad to see you go...What's with all the troublemakers and rebels without a cause here lately?
Damn...If you wanna break the law, just do it...but you have obviously no place here.
_________________________
He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog.
||.TSB Page 33.||

An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.
|| Benjamin Franklin ||

The lack of money is the root of all evil.
|| George Bernard ||



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#265622 - 08/18/07 10:03 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: x9x]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
I'm not breaking the law or advocating breaking the law. Are you that afraid of disagreement that you need to ride people out on a goat for not sharing your view? I would be glad to be out of place among such.

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#265623 - 08/18/07 10:09 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Magister_Harris]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
I'm not intent on breaking the law, or inclined to. Enough with the ad hominems -- what I wrote questions generalizations about the law; it's not an invitation to break it or indication that I would break it myself.

Back to the example, is the intelligent thing to do to leave the country if the law is unenforced? If one's tent is in a remote oasis so that the probability of detection approaches zero? On pragmatic grounds, no. I'm having trouble separating the moral and pragmatic strains of view. If the only reason to obey the law is the fear of getting caught and punished, then it's hard to see the advantage of our legal system over Saudi Arabia's.

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#265625 - 08/18/07 10:16 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Helian]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2333
Loc: East Coast, USA.
 Originally Posted By: Helian
The picture doesn't evoke an explanation of why being an alcoholic or nicotine addict (both legal) is unsatanic.


On the contrary, if not taken quite so literally, it evokes a fairly nice image. An alcoholic is a prisoner to his addiction and has limited control over his actions during a state of inebriation. Such a lack of control is anathema to a Satanist.

I want to clarify that I'm not equating a few drinks to alcoholism. In fact, I drink occasionally, but it's never to excess. I know my limits and I'm responsible enough to know when I've reached my limit.

The legality of alcohol does not negate responsibility.

Excessive binge drinking on a regular basis, regardless of the legality of such an act, is hardly Satanic. It is unhealthy, unproductive and a willful act of stupidity.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a persons faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#265626 - 08/18/07 10:18 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Helian]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 957
Loc: Flanders - Europe
You don't have to share my view, but I know with all the previous statements you posted here, that we're not on the same Satanic page. Some actions are illegal + are very stupid to do so, so why all the discussion around it, as they are for the full 100% loud and clear.
_________________________
He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog.
||.TSB Page 33.||

An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.
|| Benjamin Franklin ||

The lack of money is the root of all evil.
|| George Bernard ||



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#265629 - 08/18/07 10:23 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Helian]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
You should take a hike because you have a flawed and incomplete comprehension of Satanism and an obstinate need to quibble from that foundation. Why would we want you here? You have demonstrated nothing of value.

And actually I do have special authority to speak about Satanism and on behalf of the Church of Satan.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#265631 - 08/18/07 10:31 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Helian]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Helian
Are you that afraid of disagreement that you need to ride people out on a goat for not sharing your view?


Rather to not waste time quibbling over things that should be self-evident.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#265632 - 08/18/07 10:34 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Svengali]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#265634 - 08/18/07 10:40 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Helian]
Magister_Harris Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 07/01/01
Posts: 1851
Loc: Long Island
 Quote:
I'm not intent on breaking the law, or inclined to.


If you are a pot smoker, then this statement is a lie on your part. You ARE intent on breaking the law, and you do so everytime you light up.

 Quote:
If one's tent is in a remote oasis so that the probability of detection approaches zero?


So... you're saying that it's okay to break the law if you don't/can't get caught? This speaks volumes about you.

Using your "remote oasis" example, I've read many a news story about horny old men who go to the remote oasises of Thailand and Vietnam to have sex with young children. It's illegal for them to do so in Thailand and Vietnam... but the laws there are rarely enforced, so I suppose that you think that's acceptable as well.

And before you go off on some "how can you compare pot-smoking to child molestation" rant, let me save you the trouble. I CAN compare the two, because they're both illegal.

 Quote:
If the only reason to obey the law is the fear of getting caught and punished, then it's hard to see the advantage of our legal system over Saudi Arabia's.


If that's genuinely how you feel, then perhaps you would prefer to live in Saudi Arabia.

The desert sun and sand are calling you. Praise Allah!
_________________________
Hail the Citizens of the Infernal Empire!
Hail Satan!
Magister David Harris
Host - Hate Speech Radio
http://www.hatespeechradio.com

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#265637 - 08/18/07 10:52 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Magister_Harris]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
"So... you're saying that it's okay to break the law if you don't/can't get caught?"

NO. I'm making a point about pragmatism. On purely pragmatic grounds, it is ok. In my view it's often not ok to break the law even if you CAN'T get caught. Therefore an answer solely in pragmatic terms is unsatisfying.

I don't smoke pot. When I said I am a drug addict I was referring to coffee, in jest but also in truth. I said that I know people who do smoke pot who do not fit the generalizations that were being made. That is a criticism of the generalizations -- not an endorsement of pot, although I do have a very libertarian attitude toward it. If this conversation were about my habits and vices, it would bore you with tales of buying more books than I can read and eating too many sweets. A discussion can turn on lively disagreement without being about the person who disagrees with you.

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#265642 - 08/18/07 11:05 AM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Svengali]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
Thanks for taking the time to point out the obvious and managing to keep it irrelevant and condescending in the process.


I apologize if I came across as condescending. That was certainly not my intention.

I already admitted that I was splitting hairs over generalities, which is why I offered to drop the subject. I probably should have just shut the fuck up after your parting joke. ;\)
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#265643 - 08/18/07 11:07 AM Re: Satanism and Laws [Re: Virus9]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
I'm sure I'll survive!

.... and of course I NEVER come off as condescending! ;\)
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#265646 - 08/18/07 11:12 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Helian]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
If the law bothers you - change it.

Until then, the bulk of your responses are moot.

On a philosophical level, no one gains anything from smoking pot. Smoking (anything) has harmful health affects. So even if smoking pot is only as harmful as smoking cigarettes - it's still stupid.



Edited by Drimlybunk (08/18/07 11:13 AM)
Edit Reason: An over-due emoticon.
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#265647 - 08/18/07 11:16 AM Re: Why illegal drug use is not Satanic. [Re: Drimlybunk]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Exactly!

Also for "recreational" pot smokers; if your "normal" frame of mind is so poor that pot is an improvement, or if you can't improve your frame of mind without a crutch, you should seek qualified psychiatric counseling.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#265673 - 08/18/07 01:17 PM Though your name is now blackened... [Re: Helian]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12407
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
...I wish to reply to your statement for the benefit of other readers.

 Quote:
it follows that in China or Saudi Arabia, being a Satanist is unsatanic.


To declare yourself a Satanist in a country where religious groups are actively persecuted by government policy such as in China is not merely not Satanic, it is stupid and suicidal.

Satanism is highly pragmatic.

If doing something is tantamount to suicide or setting yourself up for probable imprisonment then this may be popular in the faith-based religions of the world but not for Satanists.

Splitting hairs over what is "right" or "wrong" about legal systems is the equivalent of playing solitaire.

It means nothing in the real world.

Anything that could result in needless imprisonment or death is simply stupid.

Using illegal drugs can result in death or imprisonment.

Once that is understood, there is really nothing else that matters on the subject that is of actual importance to the Satanist.

Anything more is just verbal masturbation.

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