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#262314 - 08/05/07 01:34 AM 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule?
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
The Left Hand Path is a path for the individual to be completely free. So lets say you decide to not follow number four and just simply ask that person to leave in a polite manner. Does that make you more satanic or less satanic?? And whos right is it to tell you what is satanic and what is not?? I was under the impression that satanists were to question all doctrines and social codes. Why are the ones from the COS any different???? If I go against my nature torture someone in my home even though I do not wish to isn't that a form of herd mentality?

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#262317 - 08/05/07 01:41 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
VictorWolf Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 237
There aren't degrees of how Satanic a person is. You are or you aren't.

I wasn't aware that the rules mandated that you torture the person. Just that you treat them without mercy. Which is different. I believe Rule 4 goes back to personal responsibility and Lex Talionis. If a person does something that mandates you asking them to leave politely, then that is what you should do. Its practical and its in accordance with the crime. If the man shoots you in the leg, then obviously asking them to leave politely would be unSatanic because it wouldn't be practical. The man obviously doesn't seem too keen on politeness. "Without mercy" suggests not extreme punishments for small misdemeanors, but pushing the full punishment that is deserved.

I think your problem is with the language used, not the rules. But then, go ahead and question the system. The "code." If its really not practical, it would stand up to scrutiny. You just don't seem to like rules.

Feel free to correct me if you find my assessment of you wrong.


Edited by VictorWolf (08/05/07 01:41 AM)
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#262321 - 08/05/07 01:48 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Phineas Offline
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Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8267
 Originally Posted By: LuminousMind
The Left Hand Path is a path for the individual to be completely free.


Do not confuse this with a free for all.

The Eleven Rules are guidelines. Here in the book titled The Satanic Life you will find an essay on those rules that should clear things up a bit.

As far as who has the right to decide what and who is Satanic...Dr. LaVey, for one, and since his passing those individuals who are highly evolved Satanists that he placed in positions of trust, that's who.


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#262323 - 08/05/07 01:51 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Satanism is not an anything goes philosophy.

However, how you deal with people in your own home is your business, as long as you obey all laws of your city, state and nation. If not then it becomes law enforcements business.

Feel free to question, but to question compulsively wastes the time of those giving answers, if anyone that is, comes along to bother to explain anything to you. If you identify as a Satanist then it pretty much goes without saying that you have already questioned the dogma, philosophy and religion of Satanism and found it to be totally awsome. At least it should.

So, the dogma, philosophy and religion of Satanism is not open for arguement. If Satanism does not appeal to you, simply move on, label yourself as something else, and find what works for you. Please.
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#262324 - 08/05/07 01:51 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
statementofnine Offline


Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 93
Loc: Portland, OR
Okay, let's deal in a hypothetical situation, shall we?

Using your example.

Someone is being less than cordial and respectful in your home and you ask them politely to leave. They refuse, laugh heartily, and continue to be disrespectful to you and your home. What do you do then? Continue to take the abuse or eject them from your home?

I look forward to your response to this situation.

HS!

~9
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Everyone learns faster on fire.

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#262326 - 08/05/07 01:54 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: VictorWolf]
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
well it says "annoys you" shooting someone is more than an annoyance and that would be an obvious given on how to react. I only interpret on what is stated. I do not need any satanic statement to tell me how to react if someone shot me in the leg. However I do question the notion of treating someone without mercy for "annoying" me. "WITHOUT MERCY" means just that "without mercy" implying that you do not hold back in anyway in retaliating on someone for something they have done to simply "annoy" you. There is no "levels of no mercy" Because if that was true then it wouldnt be "no mercy" if you let the punishment fit the crime. No mercy means just that not having the punishment fit the crime. Yes you are correct I HAVE A PROBLEM FOLLOWING A SET OF RULES!!!!!!!!!! I DO NOT DO OR ACT IN ANY WAY I DO NOT WISH!!

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#262327 - 08/05/07 01:59 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Phineas Offline
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Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8267
It seems your problem is not so much that you don't want to follow rules, it's that you don't understand them in the first place and want everything in black and white, when in fact there are many shades in between.
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"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#262328 - 08/05/07 02:00 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
gypsy Offline
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Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
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#262331 - 08/05/07 02:04 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
Who says that without mercy= violently cruel?

Without mercy means without consideration of another's feelings.

I really don't see why this is so hard to understand.

Edit:
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Rebels.html


Edited by The_Lightning (08/05/07 02:13 AM)
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#262333 - 08/05/07 02:06 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
VictorWolf Offline
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Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 237
If these rules were restrictive, I'd understand your objection. But they're really just common sense.
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#262334 - 08/05/07 02:07 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: gypsy]
Shade Offline
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Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
That can't be the same person.
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#262335 - 08/05/07 02:09 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: gypsy]
Sigurthr Offline

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Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 184
Loc: U.P. of MI, USA
Quite a conundrum we have here!
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#262337 - 08/05/07 02:13 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Shade]
gypsy Offline
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Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Agreed! But WTF
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"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#262339 - 08/05/07 02:16 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Phineas]
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
I agree that the term should be "Guidelines" not rules. I will also say that you cant call something a guideline and a rule. Similar yes the same no. Call it a rule or call it a guideline. Dont call it a rule thats a guideline........doesnt work. Rules are set in stone (and I could say very campy and cliched "meant to be broken") guidelines are simply strong suggestions that don't necessarily have to be followed.


I respect Magus Gilmore a great deal but I will also say that I speak my mind on everything without hesitation you could say I'm the anti-kissass. If one labels another as to what is "satanic" and what is not "satanic" then that person is confining to that person to and defining that person by their own personal moral code. I would never tell someone what is the left hand path and what is not the left hand path. If following the 11 rules is what you wish to do then so be it. Im all for that but the problem I have is that I feel that if I did make it vocal (which I apparently am at the moment) that I do not wish to follow one of the "Rules" then I feel on that basis alone that I would have my back turned on me by my satanic brethern and that frightens the shit out of me greatly. Dr. Lavey's Bible inspires me a great great great deal I guess I just liked that part about questioning all doctrines.

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#262340 - 08/05/07 02:20 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: gypsy]
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
I went to that link. Why is my picture up as someone named NOEL?? THIS IS NOT ME!!! I DID NOT TYPE THAT AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!! OKAY LETS TAKE A BREAK FROM THIS DEBATE!!! SOMEONE IS USING MY AVATAR THAT IS A PERSONAL PICTURE OF ME!!!!!!!!!

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#262343 - 08/05/07 02:26 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
THEY ARE RULES.
Rules of the Earth— meaning, those are the natural rules every man and woman should follow if he/she wants things to go right for him/her in life.


NOTHING about the Satanic writings should change.
Everything is perfectly well fit.

And again I stress.

Questioning all doctrines means being logical enough to understand what the fuck you are questioning in the first place.


Edit:
OH D'OH!
I'm feeding the monkey.
I'm sorry
_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#262344 - 08/05/07 02:27 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8267
Someone who registered in 2004 is using your personal picture?!?
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#262345 - 08/05/07 02:30 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Phineas]
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
Yes Magister that is correct. I already notified the Moderator. That is why I didnt understand at first why Gypsy said that I needed to read my own words and gave me a link.

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#262346 - 08/05/07 02:30 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
A Satanist doesn’t follow the rules at all. He just acts naturally and uses his common sense.

If he is a real Satanist, his acts will naturally be in accordance with the Satanic rules of Earth, even if he hasn’t read them yet.

If a person feels that acting according with the principles of Satanism means forcing himself into a code of conduct that’s not his, then this person is not a Satanist.
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You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
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#262347 - 08/05/07 02:35 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: The_Lightning]
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
I agree they shouldnt change because they work for alot of people. I must stress again I didnt say I didnt follow any of them. I follow most of them. I just have questions about number 4. But later on if I feel another doesnt work for me then I wont follow that one either. I follow what I feel is right for me. I am being respectful to you I would appreciate the same.

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#262348 - 08/05/07 02:37 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Phineas Offline
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Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8267
 Originally Posted By: LuminousMind



If one labels another as to what is "satanic" and what is not "satanic" then that person is confining to that person to and defining that person by their own personal moral code.


Wrong.

If a person who has been a piano maker for 30 years tells you that a particular piano isn't good, would you tell them to mind their own business, who are they to say that? Does their experience and knowledge not count?

Satanists judge. And evolved Satanists who have a Hell of a lot more experience than you do are perfectly qualified to tell you or anyone else what and who is Satanic.

Stratification is a fact of Satanism. Understand this, and you'll have a better idea of why your arguments are superfluous.

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#262349 - 08/05/07 02:40 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
If one labels another as to what is "satanic" and what is not "satanic" then that person is confining to that person to and defining that person by their own personal moral code. I would never tell someone what is the left hand path and what is not the left hand path.


Why? Because everyone should get to call themselves whatever they want to call themselves? I want to call myself Don Juan, it ain't gonna make it so.

Anton LaVey was the first to call himself a "Satanist" publically. He reserved the right to define what it meant for someone to call themselves a Satanist, because nobody else had the balls to do it. He defined the concept in The Satanic Bible and other writings. We're all here because we're satisfied with his definition, and we apply it to ourselves. If you don't, then why are you here? Why would you call yourself a Satanist if it's not by his definition?

 Quote:
I will also say that I speak my mind on everything without hesitation


Unbidden? You might not care about the Rules of the Earth, but #1 is, I like to think, not just a guideline, but a real rule of etiquette and morality.
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#262350 - 08/05/07 02:41 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Probably a bug in the board's image reference? That wasn't Noel's icon last time I looked.
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#262351 - 08/05/07 02:42 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Phineas]
LuminousMind Offline
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Posts: 44
The Right Hand Path judges. I thought Satanists were supposed to let other Satanists follow their own path and not pass judgement on what is correct and what is not correct. I feel that if something works for you then let it work for you. Magister if you told me for example that you ate frogs I wouldnt say "what the fuck are you doing!!!!!! You cant do that!! Look at Magister eating frogs what does he/she think shes doing!!" I would simply say to myself hmmm eating frogs huh?? Well its not on my menu but if thats what you want to eat then eat it." If it works for me then let it work for me but do not judge me on the values that I hold true because I will not do that to you. I simply have questions that I struggle with and I want answers from fellow satanists. Ive learned alot already tonight and this is my first night. I don't expect people to agree with me. I simply want to become a better satanist and the only way I feel I can take it to the next level is by having these debates.

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#262352 - 08/05/07 02:43 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8267
No.

Christians also brush their teeth. Am I supposed to be the adversary of that?


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#262353 - 08/05/07 02:44 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10123
I believe it is a glitch. Noel has much better taste than to use that avatar.
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"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#262354 - 08/05/07 02:49 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
 Originally Posted By: LuminousMind
Christians judge. Isnt this supposed to be the adversary to that??


Christians eat. Would you starve just to be different?

Satanism is not reverse Christianity.
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You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
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#262355 - 08/05/07 02:52 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: VictorWolf]
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
see restrictive is how Ive been looking at it.

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#262356 - 08/05/07 02:53 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Phineas]
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
thats just grasping at straws.

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#262357 - 08/05/07 02:54 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
Thanks.

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#262358 - 08/05/07 03:01 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: reprobate]
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
what if you gave advice to someone that was too shy to ask for it and the end result was that person having a revelation that completly changed their outlook and spring boarded them to greatness wouldnt that be worth it to them becoming the best human the could be?

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#262359 - 08/05/07 03:05 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10123
What would it profit me? Somehow, I have this suspicion that the ungrateful lout wouldn't even give me a tip for the advice that made him a success. He probably wouldn't even give me credit.

Fuck him. He can come up with his own recipe for success.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#262361 - 08/05/07 03:15 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
what if you gave advice to someone that was too shy to ask for it and the end result was that person having a revelation that completly changed their outlook and spring boarded them to greatness wouldnt that be worth it to them becoming the best human the could be?


1. Does Magus Gilmore strike you as the kind of guy who's too shy to ask for advice? Do any of us?

2. Do you often go around springboarding the meek to greatness with your outlook-changing revelations?

3. As with any rule, context is everything. There's lots of room for implied or tacit consent, or for mutual understandings. What do you think they're supposed to be, divine commandments?
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#262362 - 08/05/07 03:15 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
LuminousMind Offline
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Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
well thats always a possibility but who cares if you gain from it. I'd prefer the satisfaction that Iknew that I made them a stronger human being and wouldn't care at all who else knew it. Even if they did tell other people is that going to profit you?? So who cares if they do or not nothing changes except the fact that you know that you enriched someone's power.

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#262363 - 08/05/07 03:18 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10123
I'll pass on enriching others, thanks. Only bottom line I'm worried about is my own.

If anything I'd be shooting myself in the foot. If I had such a great idea, hogging it for myself would be the wisest choice.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#262364 - 08/05/07 03:25 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: reprobate]
LuminousMind Offline
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Posts: 44
1. No. No. 2.Possibly turning the meek into the strong is a good thing. I would only say one thing to benefit them if they didnt act on it its their own problem and would not try again. We need more strong and less meek. 3. Finally we get to the subject of context. See thats kindve how I felt the Church of Satan viewed these rules of the earth like absolute "divine" law in a sense. Look the second question on the Active Membership Form is what do you hope to gain from joining the COS? I responded to gain the knowlege of other COS members and to discuss. I feel I'am already doing that. Im not here to prove myself as some know it all badass. Im here to learn and to grow. Also I will not throw insults at anyone here. I simply want to better myself in here and learn from the Heirarchy so I can ascend myself.

AVE SATANAS!!!!!!!! AVE ANTON SZANDOR LAVEY!!!!!!!!! AVE PETER GILMORE!!!!!!!!!!

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#262365 - 08/05/07 03:26 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
LuminousMind Offline
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Posts: 44
well if the great idea was for you then yeah go for it it was yours first I agree. If its something you had knowledge of that didnt really apply to you then I'd pass it on.

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#262367 - 08/05/07 03:35 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
DataLore Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 441
Loc: Holodeck 3
Remember it is: Rules of the Earth not "Rules for the Satanist".

The principle is similar to the laws of physics; they are not regulations passed by a legislative body, but it is just how things naturally are. (take into observation animal behavior both human and non-human) The 11 Satanic Rules of the Earth are sort of like a set of tips that would benefit someone to follow.
It is common sense for the most part, however I think that you are over-analyzing it a bit off course.

;\)




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#262368 - 08/05/07 03:38 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: DataLore]
LuminousMind Offline
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Posts: 44
Agreed. I tend to do that on just about everything but you know what?? Doing that results in gaining other peoples perspectives because no matter if they get pissed of at me or agree with me I still take something from it. I've been corrected a few times in here already and thats what I need. Honest criticism to better myself.

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#262369 - 08/05/07 03:40 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Think of it this way. The Rules are a standard of conduct. They're good guidelines for etiquette and for protecting your interests. They leave lots of room for your own judgment and discretion as to how you are going to construe and apply the rules on a case by case basis.

We take themseriously because if you are going to call yourself a Satanist, how you present yourself reflects on the movement, on the Church of Satan, and on other Satanists. So, the rules are there to say, "Here is the kind of behavior we want to be known for."

Also, we take them seriously because the underlying message is, "Don't be an asshat", and we don't like asshats.

Make sense?
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#262371 - 08/05/07 03:47 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: reprobate]
LuminousMind Offline
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Posts: 44
yes it does make sense and now I understand that there is room for to make your own decisions. I was viewing it as black and white and set in stone. See reprobate I questioned something and look you and I have an understanding and that has made us both better satanists.

Im going to bed now its almost 5 here. Ill be right back here tomorrow same Satanic Time Same Satanic Channel.


AVE SATANAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Okay so that was a bit over the top on exclamation. Who cares thats how I feel.

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#262372 - 08/05/07 03:47 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10123
I wouldn't. I'd make him earn it.

You seem bizarrely altruistic. Would you like to send me $2000?
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#262373 - 08/05/07 03:49 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
See reprobate I questioned something and look you and I have an understanding and that has made us both better satanists.


You are too quick to flatter yourself. Don't do me any favors.
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reprobate

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#262378 - 08/05/07 04:52 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Svengali Offline
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Noel also has a highly functional brain, unlike this one.
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"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#262395 - 08/05/07 08:00 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
 Quote:
...turning the meek into the strong is a good thing.

No it isn't. They are meek for a reason. They would only become strong by relying on the strength of others. That is parasitic and a thoroughly bad idea. It already happens too much.

 Quote:
We need more strong and less meek.

Wrong. Let sheep be sheep. The strong need wool.

 Quote:
Im not here to prove myself as some know it all badass.

Good, because you would be failing.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#262398 - 08/05/07 08:11 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
If you do not follow the rules, you are not a Satanist.

The rules do not tell you what you should and shouldn't do, they tell you what a Satanist does and doesn't do.

A Satanist will follow the rules because these are the basic principles of being a Satanist, they will not restrict them. The rules define who is or isn't a Satanist.

Much like the rule for being a Vertebrate is that you must have a backbone.

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#262401 - 08/05/07 08:21 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
ShadowDragon Offline



Registered: 03/30/07
Posts: 327
Loc: Where I have Always Been
I haven't read all the replies, but If you read things closely you'll see the word Nature. As others have stated up to where I've read, they are Rules of the Earth, which can also be viewed as, Natural Laws.


Edited by CravenDesmont (08/05/07 08:21 AM)
Edit Reason: Slight correction.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Shadow

To Light a Candle,is to Cast a Shadow.

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#262414 - 08/05/07 10:07 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
Satanism has never been an "anything goes" religion, and each Satanist makes his own judgments to suit the situation at hand.

"To each, his own" can be a fine motto under some circumstances.
But how will you react when someone else's way of life requires them to piss on your's?

To be truly non-judgmental would demand fostering a fake and boring doctrine of blind egalitarianism. Discrimination simply means the ability to tell two different things apart. I'd like to think I have discriminating tastes and judge the things I like and do not like accordingly.

I prefer Ayn Rand's maxim:

"Judge, and prepare to be judged."


Edited by Mr. Obsidian (08/05/07 10:15 AM)
Edit Reason: errors
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#262419 - 08/05/07 10:25 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Forgive me if I do not get caught up in "what if's".
I have a child, and have grown bored with that.
My post is redundant. Those with more knowledge and authority have already responded.
You can call yourself anything you want. There are groups that welcome your kind of thinking.
The CoS has standards. It is like New York...if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere.
You can call yourself a Satanist and have no rules.
You cannot be a member of the CoS and follow no rules.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#262420 - 08/05/07 10:26 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: reprobate]
LuminousMind Offline
Banned

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
hmmmm you have issues.

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#262421 - 08/05/07 10:28 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
LuminousMind Offline
Banned

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
I do not give handouts like you describe. I am not that altruistic.

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#262422 - 08/05/07 10:32 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
LuminousMind Offline
Banned

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
"Judge, and prepare to be judged." I like that.

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#262425 - 08/05/07 10:42 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Minus]
CWH Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/23/05
Posts: 3746
 Originally Posted By: Minus


 Quote:
Im not here to prove myself as some know it all badass.

Good, because you would be failing.





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#262427 - 08/05/07 10:45 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: CWH]
LuminousMind Offline
Banned

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
anyone that tried to do that would be failing.

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#262428 - 08/05/07 10:46 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Can you guys believe this kid?
_________________________
reprobate

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#262431 - 08/05/07 10:57 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: reprobate]
LuminousMind Offline
Banned

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 44
I'd find a new thread this has become a dead horse.

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#262459 - 08/05/07 02:08 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: reprobate]
Ekwensu Offline
Amon666

Registered: 07/27/07
Posts: 15
Loc: The Black Nation
 Quote:
Can you guys believe this kid?


No.
_________________________
Adam ~ Al Asad, Malek Al Ghaba!


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#262488 - 08/05/07 04:51 PM Wrong. [Re: LuminousMind]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12560
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
 Quote:
The Left Hand Path is a path for the individual to be completely free.


Wrong.

More study is required.

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#262507 - 08/05/07 07:30 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
CatlikeJoe Offline


Registered: 06/26/07
Posts: 191
Loc: Dominican Republic
 Originally Posted By: LuminousMind
I'd find a new thread this has become a dead horse.


Did he actually think he would suddenly have a point if he made a new thread of the same topic?

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#262557 - 08/05/07 10:40 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
G.F.V. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 1951
Loc: NYC
Consider an example using the Fourth Rule of the Earth:

For instance, if it is late at night, and a person is unknowingly overstaying his/her welcome at your house, you would not be treating him/her "cruelly" by saying "listen, I think you should be going, it's getting late".

If, however, you have a person over your house who's causing trouble, making a mess, being loud and obnoxious with no consideration, then it would only be wise to say something on the order of "you're in trouble if you don't get out right now."

(The very best thing to do is to not invite people like this in the first place.)

The Rules of the Earth all boil down to using good judgment, and knowing who you're dealing with. And, like previously stated, there are shades of grey in each different situation one may find him/herself in.

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#262764 - 08/06/07 06:55 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: The_Lightning]
Opeth Offline


Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 5
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
 Originally Posted By: The_Lightning
Who says that without mercy= violently cruel?

Without mercy means without consideration of another's feelings.

I really don't see why this is so hard to understand.

Edit:
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Rebels.html


No it`s not hard to understand.......if someone treats you unjust, in your home especially, by all means no not hold back...kick them out and if it means using force..then so be it....use your own judgement......
_________________________
99% of it is what you make of it....so if your life sucks....You suck......

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#263426 - 08/09/07 08:31 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
Satanism is not a dogma, philosophy, or religion. It celebrates a kind of intellectual freedom and vigor that are inconsistent with dogmatic belief ("no stifling dogma shall encramp my pen. . . . I question all things"--TSB). It is not a philosophy, at least not in the sense of "philosophy" that applies to what someone whose day job is philosophy does and what someone in a philosophy class studies, because it does not attempt to analyze, systematize, or justify anything in any coherently principled way. And "religion" is just another word for dogma. Stodginess about what Satanists believe or may question is therefore somewhat comically self-stultifying. The "rules" and "statements" are part of an ironic, theatrical, critical, and above all playful literary approach to social criticism; it would miss the point to try to derive from them a consistent set of principles for living. They were not worked out with a logician's, or even a theologian's, will to systematicity. Consider no. 3, "When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there." How can you not go there, when by hypothesis you're already there? And would an intelligent reading of this stuff take no. 11 as seriously contemplating killing a persistent panhandler? All of these texts that look like rules are ways of criticizing and celebrating different types of personalities, values, and practices. They take the form of rules (and myth, and psalm) because they are in part a reaction against a tradition that purports to follow rules set by spirit-beings. Trying to evaluate your own practices and values to see whether they "conform" to texts that are only rules in form and on an ironic, metaphorical level makes about as much sense as trying to decipher the meaning of the parts of The Satanic Bible that are cryptoglot gobbledygook.

What would make you less "Satanic" would be going against your nature in the situation you describe, if your nature is to laugh it off and make a civilized excuse to end the social occasion. More generally, to ask "Am I following or must I follow rule x in doing y" is antisatanic, because in asking such questions we look outside ourselves for a source of value--an illusory goal, if you embrace the moral skepticism in Nietzsche, which is where The Satanic Bible gets most of is more philosophical- and polemical-looking material. The Satanic Bible is a fun read penned by a sparkling wit and master showman. It is not a dense or deep text that merits brow-furrowing study or exegesis. If parts of it seem unclear or inconsistent, your guess is as good as anyone else's, whether or not you answered the ad in the comic book and paid the $25 for the plastic card.

I would certainly not abuse an annoying guest unless it became necessary, because such behavior is upsetting and amounts to abuse of the self. Now, uninvited entrants--that's what guns are for, and Satanists love guns! (Hos epi to polu, as Aristotle would say--for the most part, being careful to avoid the dogmatic generalization that you MUST love guns to be a Satanist.) :-)

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#263439 - 08/09/07 09:38 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
You miss the point.

I think I just wrote a whole post on this type of behavior, but I will re-iterate.

Satanists agree with -EVERYTHING- in the Satanic Bible. We do not need convincing or discussion. We just do. Agreeing with the Satanic Bible makes us Satanists. If you disagree with any part of the Satanic Bible (including and highlighted by Eleven Satanic Rules of Earth, Nine Satanic Statements, or Nine Satanic Sins) you are not a Satanist. Sorry, if you wanted the title but no Satanist needs to pick and choose what to agree with.

The Satanic Bible sets forth our rules. Either agree with them, or not. There is no gray area. LaVey wrote the Satanic Bible be clear and direct - he did not intend for his readers to water it down to make it more palatable.

 Quote:
And would an intelligent reading of this stuff take no. 11 as seriously contemplating killing a persistent panhandler?


An intelligent reader would not read rule #11 and think that it implies murder. Destruction is a creative process - treat it as such.

 Quote:
. . . trying to decipher the meaning of the parts of The Satanic Bible that are cryptoglot gobbledygook.


Which parts would those be?
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#263441 - 08/09/07 09:47 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8267
 Quote:
The Satanic Bible....is not a dense or deep text that merits brow-furrowing study or exegisis.


...... \:>

This is why you fail to grasp what Satanism is about. As Magister Nemo pointed out below, more study is required.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#263449 - 08/09/07 10:09 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Oi Vey! Satanism is a religion. It isn't a philosophy, but it has a philosophy.

Capice?
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#263458 - 08/09/07 10:27 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Re-read the Satanic Bible.

Satanism IS a religion and a philosophy and also possesses some "dogma" (be careful in what sense you use that term).

Satanism is NOT "anything goes."

The Satanic Sins, Rules of Earth, etc. are not "rules" or "laws" in the sense that Christians, Jews and Muslims slavishly follow the "laws" and "commandments" of their religion.

The Satanic Rules and Laws are more of a clearly defined and distinct ETHOS that Satanists resonate with NATURALLY. They define what could be called "the code of the Satanists." If you find you don't resonate with them NATURALLY it is a good sign that you are not a Satanist, even if it is by close margin.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#263463 - 08/09/07 10:47 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
D. Macabre Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 1539
Loc: The South Bay, CA
 Originally Posted By: Helian
It is not a dense or deep text that merits brow-furrowing study or exegesis.


I think Dr. LaVey said it best when he said:

"Satanism demands study, not worship!"
_________________________
D. Macabre
Believe Nothing. Test Everything.
Watch Society Crumble!
The Social Cesspool!
The Grumpy Sergeant

"A man who limits his interests, limits his life." --Vincent Price

“Do what you want as long as it's paying off for you. But once it's become a liability, then something is wrong and you better find out what it is.” --Anton Szandor LaVey

"I have only ONE thing to say to trendy brain-dead music-centered youth: “ARBEIT MACHT FREI” SHITHEADS – PULL UP YOUR STUPID PANTS AND FORM A LINE AT THE PLATFORMS, THE TRAINS WILL BE ARRIVING SOON." --Magister James D. Sass

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#263466 - 08/09/07 10:50 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: D. Macabre]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
The Satanic Bible is actually written to be readily understood by someone of "average" intelligence.

That is what makes it so easy to identify people of below average intelligence when they don't get it. ;\)
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#263472 - 08/09/07 11:00 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Svengali]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
My main reason for not calling Satanism a religion is that it is neither prescriptive nor faith-based. That is, it does not tell people what to do, and it does not require beliefs unfounded by evidence or reason. It does not much matter whether it is called a religion. If resonating naturally with something means finding it appealing, then I resonate. But one can't resonate with a code--a code is a set of laws.

"Philosophy" is even more ambiguous than "religion" and has many loose and popular uses. I once heard the philosopher Simon Blackburn relate overhearing on a bus in London one woman saying to another, "I try to be philosophical and just not think about it." When I said Satanism is not a philosophy, I had in mind the discipline that goes by that name, not "philosophy" in any loose sense of a collection of opinions or attitudes. Philosophy the discipline has standards of clarity and rigor that are simply not met by the "canonical" writings of Satanism, however enjoyable and otherwise meritorious they certainly are. But again, terminology doesn't much matter, as long as one knows what is being asserted.

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#263474 - 08/09/07 11:01 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Svengali]
D. Macabre Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 1539
Loc: The South Bay, CA
 Originally Posted By: Svengali
The Satanic Bible is actually written to be readily understood by someone of "average" intelligence.

That is what makes it so easy to identify people of below average intelligence when they don't get it. ;\)


They stick out like a sore thumb.
_________________________
D. Macabre
Believe Nothing. Test Everything.
Watch Society Crumble!
The Social Cesspool!
The Grumpy Sergeant

"A man who limits his interests, limits his life." --Vincent Price

“Do what you want as long as it's paying off for you. But once it's become a liability, then something is wrong and you better find out what it is.” --Anton Szandor LaVey

"I have only ONE thing to say to trendy brain-dead music-centered youth: “ARBEIT MACHT FREI” SHITHEADS – PULL UP YOUR STUPID PANTS AND FORM A LINE AT THE PLATFORMS, THE TRAINS WILL BE ARRIVING SOON." --Magister James D. Sass

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#263479 - 08/09/07 11:08 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Helian
My main reason for not calling Satanism a religion is that it is neither prescriptive nor faith-based. That is, it does not tell people what to do, and it does not require beliefs unfounded by evidence or reason. It does not much matter whether it is called a religion. If resonating naturally with something means finding it appealing, then I resonate. But one can't resonate with a code--a code is a set of laws.

"Philosophy" is even more ambiguous than "religion" and has many loose and popular uses. I once heard the philosopher Simon Blackburn relate overhearing on a bus in London one woman saying to another, "I try to be philosophical and just not think about it." When I said Satanism is not a philosophy, I had in mind the discipline that goes by that name, not "philosophy" in any loose sense of a collection of opinions or attitudes. Philosophy the discipline has standards of clarity and rigor that are simply not met by the "canonical" writings of Satanism, however enjoyable and otherwise meritorious they certainly are. But again, terminology doesn't much matter, as long as one knows what is being asserted.



Define your terms before you apply them.

If you are using narrow or special definitions without stating so, you may as well just talk to yourself.

There are coherent and viable definitions of philosophy and religion that would include Satanism. They may or may not coincide with whatever current philosophy textbook you have been assigned.

Terminology is not irrelevent.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#263482 - 08/09/07 11:13 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Drimlybunk]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
>>Satanists agree with -EVERYTHING- in the Satanic Bible. We do not need convincing or discussion. We just do. Agreeing with the Satanic Bible makes us Satanists. If you disagree with any part of the Satanic Bible (including and highlighted by Eleven Satanic Rules of Earth, Nine Satanic Statements, or Nine Satanic Sins) you are not a Satanist. Sorry, if you wanted the title but no Satanist needs to pick and choose what to agree with.<<

If that is so, then you must agree that "religions must be put to the question," since that is in The Satanic Bible; therefore, if you think Satanism is a religion, you must agree that Satanism must be put to the question. So your dogmatic stance makes a contradiction--not a Satanist.

>>The Satanic Bible sets forth our rules. Either agree with them, or not. There is no gray area. LaVey wrote the Satanic Bible be clear and direct - he did not intend for his readers to water it down to make it more palatable.<<

If there is anything clearer in it than the rejection of being a follower, I don't know what it is. It is not watering it down to distinguish it from dogmas.

 Quote:
And would an intelligent reading of this stuff take no. 11 as seriously contemplating killing a persistent panhandler?


An intelligent reader would not read rule #11 and think that it implies murder. Destruction is a creative process - treat it as such.

If you read "destruction" to mean creation, then you're interpreting the text nonliterally--but is that not against the "rules"? If one can agree with something by contradicting it, then it's hardly surprising if one agrees with everything.

 Quote:
. . . trying to decipher the meaning of the parts of The Satanic Bible that are cryptoglot gobbledygook.


Which parts would those be?
[/quote]

Now I know you're pulling my leg!

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#263486 - 08/09/07 11:18 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Phineas]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
Disagreeing with you about what it's about doesn't entail that I fail to grasp what it's about. "You fail to grasp the idea we are disagreeing about" is just a verbose way of saying "you're wrong." As for more study, if reading something leaves no questions or puzzles about its content, rereading it is not the best use of one's study time. I don't find the book dense or brow-furrowing, but that is in the context of things I have studied, other books I have enjoyed and puzzled over. If someone sees more depth in it than I do and enjoys plumbing it, more power to him or her.

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#263490 - 08/09/07 11:23 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Svengali]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
It's hard to see anything narrow or special about using "philosophy" to mean what philosophers do. The context indicated that I wasn't using it in the broader sense of anything someone might opine on the "big questions."

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#263494 - 08/09/07 11:29 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Helian
It's hard to see anything narrow or special about using "philosophy" to mean what philosophers do. The context indicated that I wasn't using it in the broader sense of anything someone might opine on the "big questions."


Your definition of "religion" was narrow and special.

While the literature of Satanism is not rigorous philosophy in the formal academic sense, and does not pretend to be, there are definite philosophical underpinings of Satanism that are coherent and non contradictory, and within the literature there are rationally argued positions, so it is not entirely true to say that Satanism does not have philosophical content or positions.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#263505 - 08/09/07 11:47 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: gypsy]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
I think it's just a disagreement about tone. I'm happy to call Satanism a religion as long as that term is completely divorced from the connotation of sheepthink, fraud, and the rationalization of atrocities that attaches to "religion" in my mind. (Some of the most spaced-out and confused judicial writing is in First Amendment opinions trying to decide whether something is a "religion"!) I like "has a philosophy." I think Satanism also has a style--maybe because in so many ways it radiates from the heart of one magnetic, elegant, witty personality.

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#263509 - 08/09/07 11:57 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Svengali]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
I agree with you about the sense in which it has philosophical content. As for religion, maybe the word "religion" just stinks to me because of OTHER applications, so I hesitate to apply it to anything cool.

Before our discussion I'd never thought to wonder where the word "religion" comes from. I just peeked in the OED and discovered that the earliest recorded sense is "A state of life bound by monastic vows; the condition of one who is a member of a religious order, esp. in the Roman Catholic Church." It is interesting (to me at least, I love words) that a word that denoted such stringencies has evolved to be so supple and vague. We have litigation in the Supreme Court about whether something is a religion, but whether someone is a monk or not is pretty easy to figure out.

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#263510 - 08/09/07 11:59 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Look up "virtue."
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#263514 - 08/09/07 12:08 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Svengali]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
Very cool (I paste the etymology and first definition below). A godlikeness rooted in manliness.

Someone could probably write an illuminating history of our religious and legal traditions, and maybe more, by tracing as "story arcs" the development of a few key words from earliest use to now.

>>[a. AF. and OF. vertu (F. vertu, = It. virtù, Sp. virtud, Pg. virtude), ad. L. virt{umac}t-, virtus manliness, valour, worth, etc., f. vir man.]

I. As a quality of persons.

1. a. The power or operative influence inherent in a supernatural or divine being. Now arch. or Obs.<<

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#263516 - 08/09/07 12:14 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Someone once pointed out the irony of a term originally refering to the strength and courage of a man coming to refer to the chastity of a woman.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#263517 - 08/09/07 12:17 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Svengali]
Helian Offline


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Chicago
I've even heard it used euphemistically for a body part--when someone "covered her virtue," she was covering something not usually associated through language with strong and courageous men.... :-D

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#263518 - 08/09/07 12:19 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Svengali]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
 Originally Posted By: Svengali
Someone once pointed out the irony of a term originally refering to the strength and courage of a man coming to refer to the chastity of a woman.

It's probably because it takes so much strength to remain chaste. ;\)
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#263549 - 08/09/07 02:05 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
When I said Satanism is not a philosophy, I had in mind the discipline that goes by that name, not "philosophy" in any loose sense of a collection of opinions or attitudes. Philosophy the discipline has standards of clarity and rigor that are simply not met by the "canonical" writings of Satanism, however enjoyable and otherwise meritorious they certainly are.


I beg to differ. The core writings of Satanism want for nothing of clarity or rigor. The difference between the canonical writings of Satanism, and the practice of philosophers, lies elsewhere.
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reprobate

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#263598 - 08/09/07 06:18 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
Questioning religions does not imply dismissing them. I questioned the logic in the Satanic Bible. I found that it contained logically sound premises and conclusions.

If I agree, I am not following. You would agree with me that this message board is useful? Are you following me?

Destruction does not mean murder.
Creative - 2: having the quality of something created rather than imitated : imaginative <the creative arts>
Process - 2 a (1): a natural phenomenon marked by gradual changes that lead toward a particular result <the process of growth> (2): a continuing natural or biological activity or function <such life processes as breathing> b: a series of actions or operations conducing to an end; especially : a continuous operation or treatment especially in manufacture
Source
I create a process which destroys my annoyance.

And I am not pulling your leg. I am serious. Your lack of an answer casts you in poor light.

Your passive writing reflects both a lack of understanding and literacy.




Edited by Drimlybunk (08/09/07 06:20 PM)
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#263644 - 08/09/07 11:19 PM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Helian]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8267
Very well then, have it your way:

YOU ARE WRONG! INCREDIBLY WRONG!


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#263693 - 08/10/07 04:12 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: Drimlybunk]
Fala Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 264
 Originally Posted By: Drimlybunk

Satanists agree with -EVERYTHING- in the Satanic Bible. We do not need convincing or discussion. We just do. Agreeing with the Satanic Bible makes us Satanists. If you disagree with any part of the Satanic Bible (including and highlighted by Eleven Satanic Rules of Earth, Nine Satanic Statements, or Nine Satanic Sins) you are not a Satanist.


Exactly.

It was never a question of me "agreeing" with anything in The Satanic Bible, because to "disagree" would mean that I denied who I am.

So the whole idea of skipping or twisting any parts of The Satanic Bible is pointless.

You either are, or you aren't. Nothing to worry about.

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#264623 - 08/14/07 04:20 AM Re: 11 Satanic Rules What if you dont follow a rule? [Re: LuminousMind]
Thos Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 161
Loc: Pacific NW
If a government sprang up, using the 11 Rules of the Earth as its Bill of Rights or what have you, that's a country I'm moving to, post haste.

Herd Mentality or no, those rules make sense from an animalistic, pragmatic standpoint. Someone coming to my house to offend me has no business being there, nor do I ever seek to go somewhere where I will not be welcome.

C'mon, if he wrote these out with any less teeth, they wouldn't be as fun. This is Anton LaVey we're talkin about, who felt himself as a religious leader more in tune with Vlad the Impaler, then Mother Theresa :P
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