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#269610 - 09/07/07 10:36 AM Where the "Christian" Bible Came From???
IRI Offline
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Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Canada
This is more of a question out of curiosity on my part. I had heard somewhere that the old and new testaments were actually loosely based on a work originally written by Plato or someone of his ilk. Apparently the similarities in both documents are so numerous that it is apparent to any sentient being that the stories told are pure fiction.

Does anyone know what this work is? This may be a good reference to provide to a real pesky person. ;\)

IRI
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#269617 - 09/07/07 11:10 AM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: IRI]
Mr_Atrox Offline
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Registered: 09/16/03
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Loc: Lycopolis
I would start with these guys: Sumerians

If you study the history of the peoples of the 'cradle of civilization' it isn't too hard a stretch to follow the evolution of all biblical fables. Before they were written, they were oral tales told around campfires, so to speak.

Ever played 'telephone'?

Now imagine what would happen playing that game over the course of a few millenia?

Here Too!!!


Edited by Crotalus_Atrox (09/07/07 11:43 AM)
Edit Reason: oh oh
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#269624 - 09/07/07 11:51 AM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: IRI]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Registered: 03/10/05
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Crotalus Atrox is correct about the Sumerians, as far as the Book of Genesis is concerned. I also see no reason to doubt that the seven days of creation are fashioned after the the Seven Babylonian Tablets of creation:the Enuma Elish http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/stc/index.htm

As for the New Testament, consider a search concerning the Roman man/god myths, rampant during the supposed time of Jesus. This includes a study of Julius Caesar.
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#269628 - 09/07/07 12:16 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
TECHNO Offline



Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 112
Loc: -31.955658,115.859928
Well you know the story of Jesus and his virgin mother is remarkably similar to the ancient Egyptian tale of Isis and Osiris.

You may find 'Holy Blood-Holy Grail' and also 'The Templar Revelation' (The books upon which Dan Brown based his novel 'The DaVinci Code') interesting reading if your are looking into this topic.

Aparently virgin-birth messiahs were all the rage back in the day too because I have heard of several other similar archaic myths.

Every age has it's spin doctors and it's own charismatic cult leaders (Saul of Tarsis being the real driving force behind the rise of christianity) and bada-bing once you have enough numbers behind you you gain credibility.

Enter Scientology.

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#269632 - 09/07/07 12:29 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1813
Loc: Denmark
The tale of Noah and the flood can supposedly (since I haven't read it myself and rely on secondary sources in this case) be found in the babylonian poem Gilgamesh. After being deported to Babylon the jewish people needed a boost for their national identity and incorporated some babylonian myths in their bible.

As for the new testament it seems that Mithraism which was around at the same time had some influence on the way early christians.

The influence from Plato is probably from his thoughts on ideas - that for instance that horses in this world are all derived from the abstract notion of some ideal horse that exists outside of our reality in a world of ideas. This moves the focus out if this world and into a realm that we ordinary people cannot access, much like the idea of having a god, heaven and so on who are outside our reality.

My source for these theories is in danish, so it probably wouldn't make much sense to you. If anybody knows of other writers who have similar theories I'd be very interested to hear about it.
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#269634 - 09/07/07 12:34 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: verszou]
Evil_Eve Offline
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Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
I will simply say this:

If you are dealing with a 'pesky Xtian' it won't matter what reference you give him/her.

These people are CONVINCED that the Bible is infallible on FAITH alone.

I know the book from Genesis to Revelation and anyone who TRULY believes what it says is in it needs to be put into a mental institution.

There are however, some good ol' Proverbs in there (in fact, there is a book called 'Proverbs', that gives some good advice such as:

"Never cast your pearls before swine".

I simply don't debate with these pesky people any longer. You can show one of them SCIENTIFIC evidence of something and they will say: "No, the Bible says......."

You can't debate with people like this. It is a never ending battle.

Choose your battles wisely.
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#269636 - 09/07/07 12:39 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: TECHNO]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1813
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: TECHNO
Every age has it's spin doctors and it's own charismatic cult leaders (Saul of Tarsis being the real driving force behind the rise of christianity) and bada-bing once you have enough numbers behind you you gain credibility.


It's interesting to note that Jesus flees into Egypt with his family, so that he can appear out of there like Moses, just like a lot of effort is put into linking him to the lineage of King David. People tend to get caught up in thinking that the bible is the word of god, when it's actually a number of eyewitness reports that are written down several years after the fact, each having a different agenda to serve. Elaine Pagels touches upon this in the book "The origins of Satan" which also goes into how the cristian notion of Satan was constructed.
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#269637 - 09/07/07 12:46 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: verszou]
Evil_Eve Offline
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Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
The fifth book of the Hebrew Bible had a very BIG political agenda for instance.

Deuteronomy.

I may add that this is the book that put a ban on 'walking through the fire' which is any sorcery, divination, or 'Witchery'. ;\)

_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#269646 - 09/07/07 01:13 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: Evil_Eve]
Kaotion Offline


Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 71
Loc: New Mexico
 Originally Posted By: Evil_Eve
I will simply say this:

These people are CONVINCED that the Bible is infallible on FAITH alone....

Choose your battles wisely.

Not all Eve, I've actually had one guy want to debate the scientific proof of archaeological findings that Jesus was real. Being I was shopping with the misses and my son on winter solstice I refused to give him his debate.
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#269647 - 09/07/07 01:16 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: Kaotion]
Evil_Eve Offline
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Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
They love to 'debate' actually, they are trying to 'convert'.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#269650 - 09/07/07 01:26 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: verszou]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: verszou


The influence from Plato is probably from his thoughts on ideas - that for instance that horses in this world are all derived from the abstract notion of some ideal horse that exists outside of our reality in a world of ideas. This moves the focus out if this world and into a realm that we ordinary people cannot access, much like the idea of having a god, heaven and so on who are outside our reality.






I agree with that. Christianity is the end product of Platonic thought.
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#269652 - 09/07/07 01:33 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: TECHNO]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
History is pregnant with Messiah stories. Most identical to the Jesus story.

I once read a list of 16 messiah stories, seperated by several centuries, and religious traditions. There is nothing new found in Christianity.
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#269657 - 09/07/07 01:51 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: Evil_Eve]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: Evil_Eve


There are however, some good ol' Proverbs in there (in fact, there is a book called 'Proverbs', that gives some good advice such as:

"Never cast your pearls before swine".




May I interject, with a thought. I have thought this thought before, whilst thinking on thoughts people having posted concerning The Bible.

I have oftimes seen apoplexy take place, right before my eyes, at the mention of the Bible. The thrust of the vehemence seems to be thought of as an indication of some form of "freedom" from "the word of god".

What amuses me, is that the emotional discomfort that the mere mention of this lowly tome belies a form of bondage denied with great earnestness.

In plain English, I have noticed that many seem very emotionally attached to this powerless book given power by their reaction to it.

It is just a book; a work of literature, arguably inferior to most. I suggest that the ability to casually quote from it, without need to interject cynicism, is the mark of one truly free of such connection to outdated ideas. It puts Christianity in it's rightful place...a quaint reminder of another failed ideology.

That is only my opinion. I may be out of place; however, I have thunk it.
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#269658 - 09/07/07 01:55 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: Evil_Eve]
Kaotion Offline


Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 71
Loc: New Mexico
True as I was in my screw with the squares mood and had on my Manson shirt of the parody of the Salvation (read Satanic instead) Army.
_________________________
"When Satanism becomes the major religion in the US, it will be complete with red, white and blue banners flying, accompanied by the blaring trombones of John Philip Sousa."-Anton LaVey

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#269660 - 09/07/07 02:37 PM Re: Where the "Christian" Bible Came From??? [Re: IRI]
G.F.V. Offline
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Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 1951
Loc: NYC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Criticism

This source is a definitely a good starting point to explore the historical, textual, authorship, and ethical inaccuracies of the Bible.

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