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#275424 - 10/05/07 04:48 AM Re: If you had free will... [Re: reprobate]
Insurgent Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2318
My thoughts exactly. To me, free-will simply means the reasoning abilities to decide upon a correct (or incorrect) series of actions out of a variety of possible actions in accordance with what best suits ones needs and this choice according to biological mechanisms is, essentially, up to the sentient orgasm and not an external "puppet master" deity.

But that's kind of silly to say and is a bit inflated. Brevity dictates the term "free-will."

My other thoughts are is this thread merely ego masturbation (no disrespect intended because it seems to have been implied by Mr. Leviathan)? If so, that's fine, there's simply no choice in the matter as we've already discussed here.

Or, rather, is there an actual goal aside from being right in one way or another? What's the target, what is there to expose, in whom and why?

I just don't see much of a point. Sure, it's a valid topic.

But anyone that has ever studied philosophy with any seriousness already knows the problems with the notion of absolute free-will. This, to me, is as killed as the subject of "The color blue might be the color red to you!"
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#275430 - 10/05/07 06:46 AM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Insurgent]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
I think fucking with what makes human beings feel comfortable and in control is FUN.
It exposes the inability of many to deal with the supreme irony of life.

We might as well talk about;
• The blunt fact that we are all utterly meaningless, and all humans ARE equal in that meaninglessness of their lives.

• That it does not matter what you do in your life- your actual true self would be forgotten and you'll remain only a myth (if not completely forgotten) in the minds of other meaningless people.

• That we Satanist who think we are somehow better are actually greatly inferior to Muslims on a biological scale since they reproduce far more than we do.

• That love, like hunger or thirst, is merely a pre-determined chemical reaction of a body enslaved to nature, and there's nothing really romantic about it…

• That no matter what- you're always alone, and all sense of unity is delusional.

The list goes on, but I guess most Satanists are aware of some of those other points that would depress the shit out of most human beings (like the inexistence of god and of "fairness", indisputable moral truths and objectivity altogether etc etc….).

But it's actually kinda' comforting to know that all this life we take so seriously is a laughable matter.
Don't you think?


And yes, I just say this because I was chemically compelled to do so by my psychological structure (which is determined by nature and nurture, and not free will. [which, by the way, does not make me less responsible for all the above bullshit ;P ]).
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#275433 - 10/05/07 07:09 AM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
I never said suicide implied free will.
That chemical reactions and/or a "sick" state of mind can lead to suicide is obvious.


Everyone jumped in to answer the first question, but not one reply is directed towards the latter, more substantial one.
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Olio/Etcetera

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“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#275466 - 10/05/07 12:32 PM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Fall from heaven!

I could never co-exist with that asshole!



HS!
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�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#275471 - 10/05/07 02:26 PM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
I'd stop thinking about free will.

(Maybe it was your recent 'baby beluga' comment but I keep thinking of that goddamn movie, Free Willy )
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#275473 - 10/05/07 02:39 PM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: LeviathanXIII
what would you do with it?



Jennifer Love Hewitt.

Wait...Jessica Alba!

Wait...hmm...I can't decide.

Okay both. That is how I would squander...I mean...use my super power of free will.
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#275474 - 10/05/07 03:04 PM p.s. [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Just in case my response is mistaken for a deep philosophical discourse, I should make clear that "Free Will" is the pet name given to "Little Roho". By "Little Roho" I mean my man part.
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#275482 - 10/05/07 03:32 PM Re: p.s. [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1813
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: roho_the_rooster
Just in case my response is mistaken for a deep philosophical discourse, I should make clear that "Free Will" is the pet name given to "Little Roho". By "Little Roho" I mean my man part.



Well, since you already seem to have made your getaway with the two hotties I would like to trade in my "Free Will" for a "Free Grace" since I kinda like Debra Messing \:D
And by like, I mean like a lot, and by ... oh well, you get the drift \:\)
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#275484 - 10/05/07 04:01 PM Re: p.s. [Re: verszou]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: verszou
 Originally Posted By: roho_the_rooster
Just in case my response is mistaken for a deep philosophical discourse, I should make clear that "Free Will" is the pet name given to "Little Roho". By "Little Roho" I mean my man part.



Well, since you already seem to have made your getaway with the two hotties I would like to trade in my "Free Will" for a "Free Grace" since I kinda like Debra Messing \:D
And by like, I mean like a lot, and by ... oh well, you get the drift \:\)




I will say this...Debra Messing and Gwen Stefani shows us just how good looking a woman can be without breasts. Really! It's all about legs.
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"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#275485 - 10/05/07 04:02 PM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062


My thought on this thread is that this speaks about Greater Magic again, but in another aesthetic.

Greater Magic is about the will. No will = nothing.
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#275492 - 10/05/07 04:40 PM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Assabrah]
Max Faust Offline
Banned

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 419
Loc: Ultima Thule
 Originally Posted By: Assabrah
No will = nothing.


Agreed.

I think the question itself is flawed, much like "Is there a God?" is a preposterous question to ask a human being.

["I have no fucking idea.")

Rather than ask if there is a "free will" we should perhaps ask if we have a will that is exclusively our own, or if this is a clever illusion that is covering up the real dynamics of our situation.

"Is there a free will?" is too much of a chicken-and-egg problem. It is going nowhere, no matter how much you think about it. However, it is an interesting problem to bout with for the sheer mind exercise value. It can create some rather interesting ideas about ontology and being.

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#275518 - 10/05/07 07:09 PM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Max Faust]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
 Quote:
a preposterous question to ask a human being.


Yes, indeed... which is why trying to answer it is funny. =p

As I said, it's just some irony of life…. wondering over it is an obviously smart-ass exercise of fucking around with everything we hold as true and indisputable, for fun's sake. Human beings are funny like that.

Anyhow, in practice, it really REALLY does not matter rather we have free will or not. We would do what we do either way.

 Quote:
Rather than ask if there is a "free will" we should perhaps ask if we have a will that is exclusively our own, or if this is a clever illusion that is covering up the real dynamics of our situation.


I'm not sure I get the difference between the two forms of this question....?


Edited by The_Lightning (10/05/07 07:19 PM)
Edit Reason: Paraphrased
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#275524 - 10/05/07 07:53 PM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Babydoll]
Jen Offline


Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
I would have to agree with you, I would cut out my body's need to sleep. It wastes so much time that I could be using learning, experiencing, indulging...

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#275526 - 10/05/07 08:38 PM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10130
Perhaps not "free will" ; but will as the ability to consciously choose between limited, preexisting options?

By all means, let me answer that as well.

Yes, your choices are limited - by the laws of physics, by your chemistry, by a lot of things, and eventually by your biological urges.

However, it's pretty easy to deduce that whatever you choose, however much you think it was against biological urge, was in fact simply the one that your particular (possibly imbalanced) biology demanded most. If you really did refuse to piss for two weeks to prove to me that you could negate biology, all you did was prove that your mentality placed a higher priority on the comfort of attempting (in vain) to prove me wrong than it did on urination - and also proving you're a dumbass.
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"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#275527 - 10/05/07 08:42 PM Re: If you had free will... [Re: Babydoll]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10130
All you're saying is that you'd prefer to obey the more comfortable aspects of your biology.
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"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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