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#276912 - 10/13/07 12:40 PM Templars Reprieved?
Xaira Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 142
Loc: South Carolina
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071012/ts_nm/vatican_templars_dc

Seems like its a little overdue. But, so was an apology to a lot of "heretics."

Now, hopefully, they'll look over their own Bible and try to find and resolve the inconsistencies there.
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devilchili

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#276913 - 10/13/07 12:53 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
Now, hopefully, they'll look over their own Bible and try to find and resolve the inconsistencies there.

Why? If they did, would you convert to Christianity or something?
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#276915 - 10/13/07 01:03 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Xaira Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 142
Loc: South Carolina
No. It's just nice to see Xtians looking realistically at their own deeds, and acting accordingly. If they observe their own Bible, I believe, there will be very few Xtians at all.

Dream, I know, but one that could be enough to shift the world out of its heavily Judeo-Christian influenced culture.

Maybe they'll take a good look at Hammurabi for a change...
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devilchili

"You have to know how to accept rejection and reject acceptance." - Ray Bradbury

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#276917 - 10/13/07 01:11 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
August-Wolfe Offline


Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 144
Loc: Texas, USA
Actions like this are the Catholic Church's ongoing campaign to "apologise" for their atrocities, atrocities that actually continue today in the guise of pervert priests.
The history of the Catholic institution is so riddled with heinous atrocity that I don't see how it still exists. Officially "pardoning" or "exonerating" past victims of their crimes doesn't accomplish anything. Dead criminals pay for nothing and dead victims are afforded no restitution.
It's a PR campaign for a sagging, scandal ridden old power whose time to crumble has come. So be it!
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"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.".....Thomas Jefferson

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#276919 - 10/13/07 01:22 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3968
Loc: The Deep South
 Quote:
No. It's just nice to see Xtians looking realistically at their own deeds, and acting accordingly.


Most humans lack the ability to do that. That's why there are so many Christians, Muslims, Wiccans and whatever out there.

The very reason why there are religions is most people are incapable of analyzing simple facts from a logical stance.

If the Vatican admitted there are errors and contradiction in the Bible, that wouldn't change anything. As a matter of fact, religious authorities have publicly recognized errors in their dogma in several occasions and that didnít change anything.

Some years ago the Pope publicly admitted the concept of Evolution was not in contradiction with Christian faith... did we see any worldwide change in Christian's attitude?

In the same way, they have admitted some contradiction in their bible, but they immediately say the important thing is the "faith" and not the literal interpretation of the book.
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#276921 - 10/13/07 01:26 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Old_Pig]
Xaira Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 142
Loc: South Carolina
True.

Well, then, maybe it's just a little thing that caught my eye. One way or another, it does nothing for those who died 700 years ago.

Interesting, to say the least.
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"It is a sin to write this..." - Ayn Rand

devilchili

"You have to know how to accept rejection and reject acceptance." - Ray Bradbury

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#276928 - 10/13/07 01:50 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3968
Loc: The Deep South
Yes. It's not like the can "unburn" all those people now!
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#276936 - 10/13/07 02:56 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Old_Pig]
VictorWolf Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 237
I'd read it just because it sounds interesting and I like history. Still, people need to stop trying to make up for problems of the past like this. Whats the point of exonerating people who died because of injustice centuries ago when there's people today dying of injustice?

Satanism's concern for the here and now isn't just in reference to the White Light concern with death.
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#276938 - 10/13/07 03:08 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6344
 Quote:
Maybe they'll take a good look at Hammurabi for a change...


You mean the whole "eye for an eye" thing?
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#276939 - 10/13/07 03:19 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
It's an amusing historical reference point, but asking that Christians be realistic is firmly in the realm of "spiritual pipe dreams."

They're not unrealistic because they're Christians, they're Christians because they are fundamentally unrealistic.

That's like saying, "I wish murderers would re-examine their urge to kill and realize it is harmful to society."
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#277035 - 10/13/07 10:51 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: LKRice]
Xaira Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 142
Loc: South Carolina
The very thing.

Or, perhaps, "Lex Talonis"

Same difference.

If you want to, read the whole code.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM

I've felt that we could have done well to follow this for years, even before I ever even ran across a Satanic Bible.
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"It is a sin to write this..." - Ayn Rand

devilchili

"You have to know how to accept rejection and reject acceptance." - Ray Bradbury

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#277048 - 10/14/07 02:48 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
Majic Offline


Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 234
Loc: Sagittarius III
Wait... You Mean The Charges Weren't True?

My respect for the Knights Templar has just diminished dramatically.
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#277062 - 10/14/07 04:25 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6344
You realize that the same "eye for an eye" concept is found in the Bible, too, don't you?
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#277092 - 10/14/07 11:04 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: LKRice]
VictorWolf Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 237
The Code of Hammurabi is a lot rougher than Lex Talionis. The Code of Hammurabi violates Lex Talionis because punishment doesn't fit "in kind and degree" to the crime (What happens to women who backtalk their husbands? They're executed).

Lex Talionis, the world's oldest law code, was in fact semi private (meaning citizens tried to work things out, THEN they'd go to the State if they couldn't) in its heyday and the whole point was to have punishment fit in kind and degree. So if you broke a man's arm, you weren't executed (as was probable under Hammurabi, seeing as Hammurabi was bent on executing EVERYBODY), but you had your arm broken in return (though if you were rich you could just pay a fine, which I would say is one of the few instances in which this law code doesn't sound useful, but then this is just the history of it so we can't accept everything that the Sumerians did wholesale).
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#277094 - 10/14/07 11:07 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: LKRice]
Xaira Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 142
Loc: South Carolina
Yes, in the Old Testament. I believe that, in all actuality, much of Hammurabi's code was found in the law books (Deuteronomy, Leviticus, etc.), and for a very good reason. These laws are a powerful set, with highly structured social and economic guidelines, that allowed two similarly organized cultures (in this case, the early Babylonians and the early Jews)to function at a peak level for their time.

There was one major difference in the two, though, and that was delivery. And that difference, it seems, made the Babylonians a set of laws, and the Jews a religion.

Hammurabi's code was viewed as set down by a man, a fallible man, and could therefore have been revised at any point, had anyone (in power) seen that they were unacceptable in any way. On the other hand, the rules set down in the Jewish law books were the works of "God," a supposedly perfect entity, and one that did not often seem up for questioning or argument. The code of Hammurabi was set down as rules that one could, if one was willing to take the punishment, break. Basic calculated risk (i.e. if the reward is greater than the punishment, many will opt for the reward.) But the "God" made laws could not be broken unless one wished to not only be punished, but then left an outcast of society, and risk eternal damnation.

So, when both sets of laws are similar, it does not surprise me. As a matter of fact, it helps one see the logic in both sets of laws.

In sum, yes, both have many of the same concepts. But the delivery makes all the difference.
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"It is a sin to write this..." - Ayn Rand

devilchili

"You have to know how to accept rejection and reject acceptance." - Ray Bradbury

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#277096 - 10/14/07 11:18 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
VictorWolf Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 237
The Code of Hammurabi was "given" to Hammurabi by the God of the Sun and Justice, Shamash. It wasn't meant to be edited or revised.
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#277139 - 10/14/07 09:00 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
After studying history of western civilization I realized that the groups that were considered heretics were the ones that lost. The one that put up a fight and won weren't heretics.

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#277201 - 10/15/07 03:07 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: DickSteele]
Xaira Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 142
Loc: South Carolina
The conquerers write the history books...
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"It is a sin to write this..." - Ayn Rand

devilchili

"You have to know how to accept rejection and reject acceptance." - Ray Bradbury

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#277298 - 10/15/07 05:49 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: DickSteele]
Illuminatus Offline


Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 148
Loc: Hellsinki, Finland
The heresy that wins is canon...
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#277602 - 10/17/07 01:41 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Illuminatus]
Majic Offline


Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 234
Loc: Sagittarius III
He who laughs last, laughs best...
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#277603 - 10/17/07 01:46 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: DickSteele]
Max Faust Offline
Banned

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 419
Loc: Ultima Thule
 Originally Posted By: DickSteele
The one that put up a fight and won weren't heretics.


We can from this deduce that the mystic secret of heresy consists in not putting up a fight, or losing it if you do?

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#277715 - 10/17/07 01:48 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Max Faust]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
I'm still recovering from the Catholic Church's proclamation that those abused by its priests as children hadn't in fact done anything wrong and were absolved of any sin.

What. The. Fuck. I'm sorry, was this the sin of having sex outside of marriage or something? I think the whole definition of abuse is that the person its being done to are victims, so again by definition NOT IN THE WRONG. I don't know who was on PR duty in the Vatican that day but they were seriously off their nuts to think that was anything but a big own goal.
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All Hail Satan, for I shall ever be his mouth in this blessed and righteous Kingdom of the United!

"Don't you see? If the gays can get married then the whole institution of marriage will be destroyed! Society will crumble! Rivers will run red with blood! And Nazis will walk the earth riding dinosaurs!" Princess Clara, the unsung voice of the Christian right.

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#277765 - 10/17/07 05:33 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Scion]
PureLily Offline


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 135
Loc: UK
The catholic church are full of it. My Mother wanted to have me confirmed so approached her priest to ask about it. He told her that since she was divorced I could not be confirmed as I was a child of sin. This was after she had built up my ideas of confirmation and what a fantastic thing for me it would be as it meant my acceptance by god and the church. At the time even though I was only seven I was quite angry at this rejection for something that I had no personal responsibility for and it is not something I have forgotten.
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#277804 - 10/17/07 09:55 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: PureLily]
Majic Offline


Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 234
Loc: Sagittarius III
Condemned To HELL!

You say that like it's a bad thing.
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If you expect humanity to disappoint you, you'll never be disappointed.

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#277855 - 10/18/07 03:43 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Majic]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
I'm with Majic - you dodged the bullet there PureLily. I've been to Catholic first communion and a confirmation and they are dull dull DULL.
_________________________
All Hail Satan, for I shall ever be his mouth in this blessed and righteous Kingdom of the United!

"Don't you see? If the gays can get married then the whole institution of marriage will be destroyed! Society will crumble! Rivers will run red with blood! And Nazis will walk the earth riding dinosaurs!" Princess Clara, the unsung voice of the Christian right.

www.vampiretemple.com - are you one of us?

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#277962 - 10/18/07 06:18 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Scion]
ParaBellum Offline


Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 87
Loc: Plausibly deniable
Too true. BORING rituals.

The only upside is that the resultant opressive environment makes the Catholic school girls VERY fun to party with.


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#277994 - 10/18/07 10:16 PM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: ParaBellum]
Xaira Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 142
Loc: South Carolina
Very true.

I know a couple. Let's just say, "holy" isn't quite the right word, there. (Phonetically, maybe...)
_________________________
"It is a sin to write this..." - Ayn Rand

devilchili

"You have to know how to accept rejection and reject acceptance." - Ray Bradbury

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#279437 - 10/26/07 05:39 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
MagdaGraham Offline
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Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
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#279462 - 10/26/07 08:46 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Rodim Offline


Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 239
Yep. iv had a few good laughs at some of their spiritual in depth conversations, since my mother is a new-born. she calls her friends to come by. They just feel safe and secure in their perfectly invented fantasy so much, that they just cant let go. Hopeless case.
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#280026 - 10/29/07 12:01 AM Re: Templars Reprieved? [Re: Xaira]
Abbott Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 186
Loc: Atlantic City,NJ
As a Templar myself, I am happy that the ignorant Papacy and their never ending condemnation of others, while ignoring the deeds of their venerated "holy" pedophiles and sadistic flock. Jaques DeMolay has been avenged. There is a fine line between heretic and hero.
The Knights Templar were a loyal and honorable mercenary army who were betrayed by the greed of the power and wealth earned by the Order. The so called shroud of turin is the linen DeMolay was wrapped in after being tortured following the arrests of Friday October the 13th 1307. Another Xtian hoax for the herd.

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