Greetings all, a quick question/thought. I assume that many of you are like me are in a relationship. But is it with a Satanist? A Non-Satanist? Or any other type of religion? What is your partners feelings regarding your interest and/or membership in the Church of Satan. My wife is not too fond of it, which is fine, she doesn’t hassle me over it (but then I haven’t submitted my Active Membership application, just yet). She cried when I first joined the Church, I guess because she finally had to admit it in her mind that I was an Atheist. She was raised a Jehovah’s Witness (I like to call them Jay Dub's). How have your spouse’s reacted? Favorably? Or Not? Have you kept it a secret?

I have never been in a relationship with a Satanist.

I don't think I have been out with any religious people at all... Aside from a wiccan girl who, for some reason lost all of her faith in her religion whilst seeing me.

I have never kept my religion a secret if asked by a partner.

I explain Satanism to my partners (if they ask) coherently, and in an easily digestible manner. They usually see it to be interesting and sensible, if not a little quirky for their particular tastes.

If a spouse had a problem with my religion then I would quite obviously be with the wrong sort of person...

I have stated the nature of my relationship many times on this forum. However, you are relatively new, so I will be glad to expound on a favorite subject.

My wife is not a Satanist. Like myself, she was once a member of the Christian clergy; and, she has no interest in any religious affiliations. Besides that, she simply is not a Satanist. She has many of our qualities. She took the test at the beginning of “The Satanic Witch”, and only answered two questions that in a way that did not suggest a witch. Indeed, she is a witch.

My wife is proud of me, which includes the fact that I am a Satanist. She was not surprised in the least when I told her I was a Satanist. She has read The Satanic Bible. While she generally agrees with it, that is not the same as being a Satanist. She even brings it to my attention when an action is not consistent with what I profess, so to speak. She has seen that my limited interactions with other members have strengthened the qualities that she had already admired. She has actually encouraged deeper involvement, on my part. She has had 15 years to get used to the fact that I have no god belief. She would be horrified if any should crop up. I am very fortunate, in this respect.

No one I've dated yet knows of my affiliation. However, as Adequate states above, those who I've explained it to from an academic perspective (because they all feign an interest in my studies when they're trying to lay me) reacted in a similar fashion. Interesting, many parts appealing, but maybe a little too weird to embrace fully.

Only one, so far, has been a de facto Satanist. But then again, it's not a requirement for me in a partner. For myself, there are far more important things in a dynamic with an intimate loved one.

I do however, recognize that certain aspects of my worldview would be implicitly understood by another Satanist. Occasionally my outlook on life has been described as "harsh" or "fierce", which sometimes surprises partners as I do not have an abrasive personality.

Once they grow accustomed to how I judge the world and my spheres of intimacy, they see my brutality towards transgressors as an aspect of my loyalty, as a defender of those I truly love.

While I haven't told anyone I've dated seriously, I doubt anyone who got to know me would be very surprised.

My girlfriend (We live together, are planning marriage) Is fully aware that I am a Satanist. She was baptized Catholic, but doubts it's legitamacy one hundred precent. She has hope in an afterlife, but does not believe in a heaven or a hell, she just likes to think that there is SOMEthing out there. She has read bits of the Satanic bible, and has listened with me to Magus Peter H. Gilmore on some interviews he has done with different television/radio shows, and she has agreed with much of the ideas behind Satanism. Again as roho pointed out, that does not make one a Satanist, indeed there seem to be many people who join this board claiming to be a Satanist, with a very good statement to back it up, but two posts later admit that "By the way, I don't believe in it 100 precent, there are a few things that bug me, and I smoke crack LOL" so in essence, she would be something like that(Except for the crack. We are a drug free household.)

We are not going to try to get a Satanic wedding, as only one of us is a Satanist, but it will MOST CERTAINLY not be a wedding through any sort of a church. A simple ceremony with us signing a paper will suffice. As for other family members, Satanism came up in conversation between my mother and I (Yes, it actually did randomly come up when she was trying to explain Wicca, and made the statement that "Not all Wiccans are evil, but every Satanist is") so I explained to her that I am a Satanist, and what it ACTUALLY means, and she accepted it as well. Once people get past the SCARY image of "Tha Devil", they are fine with it. Some people never get over that image, which is exactly why it is used, to act as a filter.

It is a shame your wife did not take it so easily when you told her...good luck, hopefully she is rational enough to see past what I assume is it's general imagery (and rejection of Theistic values) and see what a wonderful thing it really is.

I have explained it to her in a manner that was comfortable to her, and easy for her to understand. I think she thought I was one of those Devil Worshippers like on Geraldo. Another part that bothers her is the fear of no after life, and the fear of no after life for our children. But I don’t think it was much of a surprise to her when I joined the Church of Satan, I guess because I have always been this way. We have been together for 12 years, and I'm just realizing at this point in my life that I have always been a Satanist, I just hadn’t realized it yet. And, I'm sure she feels the same way. Either way we are a happy couple, and this does not interfere with our marriage. I'm proud to proclaim my allegiance to the Church and if asked I will admit my membership and my beliefs.

Thanks for your thoughts.

My wife Terese is not a Satanist she is a pagan. It, to me at least, is quite funny but she is the one who pointed out to me that I was a Satanist or at least should study the religion/ philosophy. We were watching a television show on Satanism that was well shot and actually one of the few that I have seen that shine a light on what it actually means to be a Satanist, filled with interviews with CoS members. If I remember correctly Magistra Barton and I believe Magister Church were also interviewed.

The whole time we were watching she was elbowing me saying "hey that's what you do" and "you think like that". It was true! I was seeing ideas that I have held my whole life right there in front of. So the next day she went to the local bookstore and when I got home from work she had a copy of The Satanic Bible and The Satanic Rituals on the coffee table for me to read. I read them both that night and saw myself completely in The Satanic Bible.

Since then I have studied the tenents of the Satanism and the CoS almost non-stop finding new ways that I can use them to my advantage, to better my life and that of my family. Throwing in my own flair and style to make my "version" work for me in every aspect of my life.

I consider myself very lucky to have my wife who is not a Satanist be so supportive of me. I love her very much the lengths she has gone to reading the literature having discussions, and the strength she exibits when she pounces on someone who questions my fitness as a husband and father because of my religious choice. Hell she has even served as my alter on a few occasions.

My wife grew up Catholic, but has had doubts all her life. She's leaning more toward Atheism these past few years.

She is aware of and supports my membership in the Church of Satan. In the beginning she had her doubts, but she knows I would never keep anything from her. The first time it was brought up, she was more worried that I would leave her and our children or I would change into some kind of monster. After discussing it, she came to realize that my affiliation wouldn't change me into something different. I have always been what I am, but never labeled myself a Satanist.

I would not recommend keeping something like this a secret from a spouse or a life partner. I'm all for open, honest communication with people who need to know. We are not only carnal beings, but intelligent and social animals.

An important question you might consider asking: "Is this relationship good for me?"

I am not comfortable with dysfunction in my relationships so I chose a partner who lets me be me. It's also important to me that my partner doesn't believe they have an imaginary friend with divine powers.

It's worth the search and the wait.

None of the girls I've ever been with really had a problem with me being a Satanist. Of course, none of them were too religious to begin with. I did however go with a girl once who's father had become a born again xian, and that caused some friction. The old "How could someone who worships the devil possibly love another person?!!" line came into play. Suffice it to say, that relationship didn't go very far.

I can't see how I could ever admire a non-Satanist… therefore, I can't see how I'd ever choose a non-Satanic mate.

I view Satanism as the ultimate disillusioned life-philosophy, and any deviation from it seems illogical to me.
For example, I could never be with a person who thinks there is such a thing as "equality" or "altruism", not to even mention someone who believes in any kind of entity other than himself.
I could never be with anyone who does not take responsibility over his life, has a weak-character and is prone to conforming behavior.
I could never admire such a person- therefore I would never consider him as a mate.

Even if the said person would think that the religious part is unnecessary (as in- the ritual-magic part), I would still expect him to agree with its logic (=psychological efficiency), and practice the philosophy of Satanism in his daily life (…Which would make him a de-facto Satanist anyhow…).

I'd like to point out that some of the people I love are *definitely* not Satanists, and I get along with them fine… but I feel they would never be able to understand me in the level I expect my partner to understand me.



Luckily, my true love is one hell of a Satanist… so life is well. ^-^

Each to his or her own, and that mentality is perfectly fine to me as well. Though my mate does not practice the philosophies that I do, certainly not in the same way I do, we are compatible in every other aspect of our lives, and have a very comfortable bond. She still surprises me in many ways with her intelligence, and occasionally sharp wit, and as we are constantly learning from eachother, I find her enriching to be with. Not only does she understand and respect all that I have taught her about Satanism, but she believes it all as well. She has never once disagreed with me about it (Not that it would change anything if she did...I'm all for a debate with her now and then) and understands the logic behind it perfectly.

Most importantly, she makes me happy, in obvious, and sometimes unexplainable ways. We are attracted to eachother on a mental, emotional, and physical level, and enjoy eachothers company greatly. If I felt one day I was not fulfilled anymore in the relationship, it would be swiftly ended, as it would cease to benefit me and become a burden on my life. I am the master of my own existence, and my own fate, so whether or not she supports me in my endeavours is rather unimportant, but if she ever became a direct hindrance, it would be a logical choice to move on. She supports all of my pet projects and interests, we work together to make a good income to live the way we want, and so...in less serious, short terms...everything is just peachy.

In the future, if the relationship were to end, I would never be OPPOSED to dating a Satanist, far from it. But as someone said on these boards, just because you agree with someones beleifs, and respect them for being a Satanist doesn't mean you can particularily stomach that person. A strong friendship/relationship would have to be developed FIRST to gain any real meaningful time spent with eachother, besides just both believing in the same thing.

For me, of course. it wasn't meant as a judgement on your post, The_Lightning, just trying to add to meaningful discussion.

Edit:
Just realized you already posted the information I asked for in this thread.

Anyhow, I guess that in this case- all I can say that- indeed- to each his own.

I, personally, would find it to be a weakness in a person's personality if he/she does not have the courage and self-honesty to admit there is no after-life, although intellectually he/she knows it.
I realize that in relationships you often have to compromise over all kinds of things- so I can't say I don't understand how a Satanist could be with a non-Satanist.

Again, I am speaking for myself alone when I say I personally can't make that kind of compromise.

Well, I suppose the answer to that is simply, she hasn't done her homework. As I said before, her and I have spent a bit of time on YouTube, watching various videos, mainly with Magus Gilmore talking to nobodies about what Satanism is, and isn't. (Some of them understand, some of them don't.) We would often pause in parts, and have a lengthy discussion about why part A or part B made so much sense, and just how logical it all was. She has picked up the Satanic Bible a few times, but never read through it all, just picking random points out of it to read. So maybe as you said, she herself is a "de-facto" Satanist, somewhat, but is not a self-proclaimed Satanist by any means. She does not believe in God, or Jesus, or any other deities to speak of, but is open to the possibility of some kind of spiritual cycle, though she would never be able to describe what the hell that could possibly mean. She lives her life the way she wants to, taking part in indulgence (But not compulsion) and certainly is not the type to turn the other cheek, really. So while I believe she embodies some of the fundamental viewpoints of Satanism, I think it would be a stretch to call her a Satanist.

Sorry if that seemed a bit skewed, it is the best way I can describe her without going off for fifty paragraphs! But I hope it has answered your question!

Yes, I apologize- I've noticed this just now.

I don't want to take this down to a personal level, since I don't want it to seem as though I'm criticizing your wide or your relationship with her. That is definitely not my intention.
From my very personal point of view, I think that any person who learns about Satanism but "just doesn't get it"- is a person who might not perceive certain levels of intellect I myself perceive. And that would bother me as someone who's looking for a companion that can reason with me on the highest levels.

The way I look at it, it's not the fact that a person doesn't agree a 100% with my religion per-se that bothers me, as much as what this implies about their personality and mentality in general.

Now, to make this very clear- I think that it's very possible for a Satanist to not necessarily need a cold-headed relational mate who "gets it". And I don't think every non-Satanist is somehow unworthy.
This is for the sake of discussion only. That's all.

No no not at all, it was never taken as criticism. She "gets it" in the way that she understands what it is, what it means, and WHY it exists...most importantly, why I feel the need to label myself as such. In essence, she has known for a long time already what I am, without calling myself Satanist, as after three years of being together, you learn exactly who a person is, whether you want to or not!

And I will clear up right now, I have not taken anything you said personally in any way, I just find this an interesting point of discussion, at it has been most entertaining to see the different points presented by everyone on the subject thus far!

I am a Satanist.
My girl is a Satanist.
Why you would ever keep something like that a secret, or tolerate a partner's disdain or unease of it, is beyond me.

But that's just me.

Why are we (many posters in this thread, not just specifically you) equating non-Satanists with theists?

I think I equated non-Satanists to more than just theists right here.

No matter what you explain to most people, they will never understand Satanism. Even when they do understand, if and when things get troubled in the relationship, it becomes either a convenient excuse for leaving you, or an easy means to vilify you to others involved.

I've dated girls who usually use the phrase "He was a Satanist" in a derogatory manner after we split, so this is quite true. But I'm also quite sure they used the phrase "He was an asshole!" as well, so that may skew my information.

As for the topic at hand, I haven't dated any girls that have been Satanic. My last girlfriend was a pseudo-Christian who was a stripper (it's weird how she justified working her job; it was an "art form" to her) so she wasn't too uppity about my religion of choice.

It doesn't really matter too much, to me anyway. I like pretty girls and religion doesn't stop me!

It's generally a really bad idea, in particular where children are involved.

If you date a non-Satanist and you later divorce (statistically a 50% probability) you will probably not get even partial custody of the children.

Marrying a theist is even worse. The problems arising with how to raise said children are too obvious to mention.

I don't have a problem with others doing it, but the happiest married Satanists I know are married to other Satanists.

Too true.

The stuff that people are "fine" with when things are going well becomes the stuff that people are not-so-fine with when there's tension.

I think I'd ultimately prefer to mate and date Satanists. I'm not solidly opposed to non-Satanists, mind you, especially if they are de-factos in some manner, but I've discovered that I often feel that much closer to Satanists and share more in common with them automatically.

I have found this to be absolutely true, and the scariest part about contemplating a serious relationship with a non-Satanist.

Before I realized I was a Satanist, I went through a custody battle with my ex and he used anything he could possible twist to make me look like an axe murderer. (Fortunately for me, he made himself look like such an asshole that I won complete custody.) I can just imagine in my worst nightmares, what he would have done with that little tidbit of info.

Makes me think long and hard before getting into serious relationships now.

~HS!~

Yeah good point dragondancer. Yeah I can see an angry spouse throwing that tidbit out. But then I could never keep my ideals and Satanism from her, as I dont think any Satanist should. She understands me, and besides being in a relationship is hard enough as it is, especially with me!!!

I'm not really sure what my husband considers himself, because religion is not a big deal to us. He sort of fluctuates between atheist/agnostic and pagan [I don't think he believes in "the gods", but he likes the symbolism and the norse mythology]. I think he'd agree with a lot of the Satanic Bible if he ever read it [he loved Might Is Right], but I don't really push it; it's there on the bookshelf if he has an interest.

He's cool with me being a Satanist. I think he's OK with me being any religion, so long as it's not Christianity [long story but there was about a year when we were going to a fundamentalist baptist church - we were both driving eachother crazy because of it]. He's already said that it seem like a very rational way to raise children, so there won't be any problems with that.

I don't think it's something I could, or would want to, keep a secret from him. We're very open with eachother anyway, but if my partner couldn't accept something that is so basic to who I am then I'd have to find another partner.

Personally if you are thinking about things such as this you probably have no business with that person to begin with.



Obviously this can be a tricky subject regardless of the situation. My wife who is a pagan and I have debated this subject quite a bit as we are in the early stages of parenthood. We came to the conclusion that it is important to not raise him under one banner or the other, but to responsibly teach him about both as well as other religions and philosophies and allow him the decission once he is older.

Hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it?

My boyfriend was my best friend before we started dating (still is my best friend), so he already knew what he was getting into when he started dating me. When I first told him back when we were the tender age of 18 he wasn't the least bit surprised.

Hes looked into it a bit himself. Hes interested, but wants to do a bit more research.

My wife is agnostic. So it is no big deal to her that I am a Satanist. Likewise it is no big deal to me that she is agnostic. Each must chose his/her own path.

Beyond that what you seem to be talking about is mixed marriages. Mixed marriage is often referred to when one is talking about race. However, mixed marriages exist in other realms as well. For instance if one spouse is a Democrat and the other a Republican they are in a mixed marriage. One could even say that if one spouse works first shift while the other works third it is a mixed marriage. Religion would also constitute a mixed marriage if the two view points were complete opposite as Satanist and Christianity.

I think when you get to the heart of this conversation the question becomes: Do mixed marriages work? The answer is entirely dependent of how much importance one or both of the people involved in a relationship (and in some cases their families) put on the issue at hand. For instance with race, if one or the other is always going to feel like the token white/black person in a relationship it will not work. If one's family is vehemently opposed to having a member of an opposite race with their son/daughter it might not work. If nobody has an issue with it it will definitely work.

Depending on how important that politics are a relationship may not work. A conservative friend of mine has always said he may view liberal women as a nice roll in the hay, but he would detest himself to be in a full blown relationship with one. On the other hand, James Carville and Mary Magdalene have both made careers in opposite parties. Yet they seem to have a solid marriage.

Sometimes opposite shifts work in marriage. Sometimes they don't. Issues of trust and straying are the most common cause of this.

Religion is similar to race. While the couple may be fine with the idea of a mixed marriage families may not be. At least with some religion such as Satanist and Christian it is pretty easy to hide if necessary. On the other hand if you had a Jew and a Muslim, well those differences would be apparent to all. Generally speaking though, mixed marriages can and do work with religions. Many Catholics marry Protestants and vice versa.

Finally, it is always important to be 100% honest with your spouse or potential spouse up front. If there is huge importance on certain issues that can't be agreed upon it is best to know from the beginning. That way you can part ways and move on. If there is secrecy you can rest assured that someone will find out and it will be much more painful when it ends.

Frankly, I feel that two people that are committed should put the relationship first anyway. After all, if one or both people aren't willing to do that then they aren't truly committed.

Hail Satan!

Personally if you are thinking about things such as this you probably have no business with that person to begin with.

Spoken like a man who has never had "the perfect thing" crash and burn before his eyes.

Also, if you think an interreligious marriage doesn't carry a fairly high risk, you're nuts. The more issues of deep personal incompatability you introduce into a relationship, the more likely it is to be ultimately flawed, which is yet another reason why endogamy is a wise choice.

We came to the conclusion that it is important to not raise him under one banner or the other, but to responsibly teach him about both as well as other religions and philosophies and allow him the decission once he is older.

So religion is just a banner with no implications other than a label? I don't suppose there could be a possibility of conflict over seemingly unrelated matters that are nevertheless influenced by the religions of the parents.

Indeed, Reverend.

I have just completed my divorce, and though I was awarded primary custodianship of our two children, it was an unpleasant experience being grilled on the stand for three hours. I am fortunate that my attorney had learned just enough about Satanism and the Church of Satan to know when opposing counsel was asking questions that didn't apply to Satanism outside of a B-movie script.

The four things that brought about my victory were: 1) my ex started stripping last year at a club that is well known in these parts as being a hub for drugs and prostitution, 2) I have a long established, and well documented, history of parental responsibility, 3) I documented my ex's irresponsibility and irrational selfishness over a seven-month period, and 4) my ex knew of my religion when we first met.

Again, it wasn't pleasant, but it did work out in my favor.

I have to agree as well. If my mate had different, very conflicting interests and beliefs, there would be no reason for ME to want to be with her either. I simply don't get on with people of Christian, Catholic, or other wise god-fearing beliefs, so I would see no reason other then "Derrr, she's perrty" To form a relationship with that person. And I don't need to tell you, that's no reason at all to be with anyone.

As for raising children, I am on the fence on this one. The general stance of Satanism seems to be each to his own. I would teach my kids my values, and since they AREN'T values that require fear, I would not worry about swaying them in the wrong direction. I will teach them the LEFT path, if they choose the RIGHT one, that is up to them. As human beings, I would like to give them enough credit to think that whatever the fuck I think about anything, they will eventually come to their OWN conclusion about it all. (Then again, with the general population of human beings, this may be far too much to expect!)

"Also, if you think an interreligious marriage doesn't carry a fairly high risk, you're nuts."

I agree that interreligious marriages do have there risk, but what relationship does not. That being said some choose to minimize that risk others embrace it. If our relationship were to fail do to religious reasons the blame would lie in my lap. I would have to accept that, yes there would be pain but there usually is when any marriage ends.

"So religion is just a banner with no implications other than a label?"

Not at all. My usage of banner was probably a poor choice of an adjective.

I've been pretty lucky in that I married a fellow atheist. When I told her I was a Satanist, her big concerns were some of the common misconceptions regarding the CoS. Once she understood it, she was fine with it.

However, she's not, nor will she ever be, a Satanist. It's just not her thing. She read The Satanic Bible, and identified aspects that were clearly not part of her self-definition.

Luckily, we have a pretty understanding relationship. We support each other to seek out and experience those aspects of life that we choose to experience - obviously within reason. Even if she would have had problems with Satanism, she wouldn't have interfered. We have more respect for each other than that.

This subject has come up a lot here.

In my experience: yes, inter-religion relationships CAN work. However, if at least one person believes the other person is in some sort of danger (metaphysical or otherwise) because of his or her choice of religion, it's not going to work.



That doesn't sound like a healthy relationship...

Another thing is that not all of us read The Satanic Bible while we were in college. Some had no idea of the contents until well after a family was established. What then? Personally, the fact that people change throughout life is a good reason that marriage contracts may be more useful if they were temporary; at least, that is what I have always thought. Why not one or five year contracts?

My policy has always been to let any prospective mates know immediately who and what I am. Just as with affiliation with the organization itself, my religion can act as a filter for prospective mates, business associates and friends.
I am in a marriage right now, and I told Delia exactly what the altar was for and what I stood for. I told her that that's how I am and I will not change that aspect of myself for anyone. She then knew I was serious, and felt that I was worthy enough to not make an issue out of it. (I had one previous mate who just agreed with me because come to find out she was very needy, I thought she agreed a little too quickly).
Delia was brought up strict Jehovah's Witness but has since let go of the formalities but still holds on to some the teachings that they forced onto her. At first she had a little problem with it but quickly realized she loved me and wanted to be with me. She didn't quite understand it, and still doesn't understand it thoroughly, and I don't expect her to. She is very supportive of me. She understands that Satanism is what has shaped me into who I am today, an outstanding person, loving father, humorous and intelligent person. We hadn't been together but several months when news of the Satanic Mass was delivered to me. She didn't really want me to go, I think more so because it was so far away, but also because she wasn't fully understanding the concept of Satanism. She still had preconceived beliefs of what Satanists were like. Now, she still doesn't quite understand but she will often tell me when I need a ritual. She will say that she doesn't know what I do "out there" but afterwards I act much differently, more calm.
Like I said, she still has some beliefs from how she was brought up, and I have my beliefs we just don't push them on each other. I have found out that in a relationship whether it be religious views or other values, you can keep most of them. You can agree to disagree. One person never absorbs the other in a marriage, you're a team.

It sounds like you understand what I am talking about. May I ask how long the two of you have been together? My union is 17 years old.

We've only been together now for a couple of years, we've only been married for a few months. We were doing all the things married couples do long before we were married. Someone else mentioned it here one time that "Satanists must be with satanists" is bunk. We know how to work together as a team and compromise. Differences that arise are only your personalities clashing. What is funny is that most of the time when Delia and I are in disagreement it is about details not the bigger picture. When we argue, it is often about petty shit not the bigger things. Religion aside let's look at it from this point. I like to be neat and orderly, Delia isn't an absolute slob by any means but sometimes not as neat as I like. There are times when we grind about this but I have had to learn that it's not my job to change her. If I don't like it, then I can leave. Sometimes I will talk to her about certain things and she will get better, but one thing I have learned to do is to hijack certain places to be mine. My computer desk is one of them, it stays neat and orderly and her desk can be as messy as she wants it to be. Although sometimes it spreads out to my dresser and that's where I draw the line!
Besides religion, cleanliness, and all those other life details, we know how to get along, we have a good time about 90% of the time and we really enjoy our lives together. That is very hard to come by.

Considering all of the things we have been through, our biggest fights have been because she told me where to turn, when I am driving. Seriously...I have always had a hard time with feeling controlled.

As for the issue of whether Satanists should only be with Satanists...if it is true that Satanists are as rare as a hen's teeth, that would pretty much mean that most of us would be alone.

Oh so true! I have a hard enough time finding decent people who AREN'T Satanists!

I suppose it all depends on the type of person you are and who you get with. Lesser magic that you apply could play a role on how your mate perceives Satanism as well.

Boy, that sure was true for me. When we were still together my ex-husband told my mother about my CoS affiliation under the pretense that he "was worried about me"... which was total bunk. He was just trying to start trouble and there was a mess of that.

As for being with a non-Satanic partner...People confuse me enough as it is. I like to keep things simple nowadays. And when I'm simpatico with someone, it's just easier.

To each their own, of course, but I tend to agree with you here.

I have no problem with casual relationships and just having fun with non-Satanists, but I don't think I would ever actually marry a non-Satanist. Maybe a de facto at the very least.

A lot of you are limiting yourselves greatly.

I would certainly not say "I'll only ever marry a Satanist."

How awful.

Religion is not a good basis on which you choose a mate.

Then again, I don't plan on getting married, so I'll pipe down.

No it shouldn't be the basis of choosing a mate, but it certainly does make a difference if their religion is in direct conflict with yours.

To me it's about a happy medium. I wouldn't marry a strict Catholic woman, but I wouldn't just limit myself to a Satanist...That's all.

I can safely say that my girlfriend and I have never had any qualms about religion. She had been raised as a Roman Catholic yet abandoned all affiliations with the temple of hypocrisy as soon as she started to question everything in the faith. She is an atheist and has even expressed interest in reading the Satanic Bible so that she can further understand my ongoing support of the Church of Satan and the pristine wisdom of Satanism as a whole. In conversation I have challenged the misconceptions of Satanism with my newfound knowledge and have brought her to a new level of understanding. Our arguments have never been over the subject of religion. In fact, we hardly have "arguments" over anything more than stupid shit. They always begin with the exchange of sarcasm and end in sheepish apology Concerns about my choice of religion have never been present and I have always been happy to answer her questions about it.

To me a Satanist's relationship can work with non-Satanists, but I do not see how that could go beyond agnostics and atheists. A Satanist with a theist... now that's quite the clash of faith.

If you were talking about every other religion- I might have agreed, but Satanism is first of all a definition of a specific type of human beings.
I think it should be obvious to Satanists that we are different from our very core, not just from the toppings.
As I said, I doubt if I could ever reach a truly deep understanding with a person who is not Satanic.
Am I limiting myself?
I think I would rather wait years for the right one than settle for anything less.
I don't see it as limiting- I see it as not compromising.

I've never been with a person who believes in fairy tales. Not to mention bleeding hearts.

I do not even want to imagine what my life would be if I were to hook up with a person of any religion other than my own. It simply will never happen.

I generally like to be with folks that are of sound mind and clear mental health.

Besides, I depend on my own senses for pleasure and if need be I can be perfectly content on my own for quite a long time.

Wise words indeed...

I was lucky enough to have met my significant other through the Church of Satan (thanks HP Gilmore for suggesting a visit to my old store.) Unlike the majority of members we were both public Satanists and it was inevitable that we would have met anyway. We were friends within the organization for years before formally becoming an item.

I gotta say, however, it cuts down on so much bullshit not to have to explain such fundamental life philosophy. We never had to ask each other basic questions or worry about how the other would take the information. Additionally we already had a ton of mutual friends and acquaintances so there was none of that weird attempting to merge friendships.

So, in my opinion, in the best of all possible worlds, becoming involved with a fellow Satanist is an optimum scenario. Then again, Voltaire is dead, and this isn't necessarily the best of all possible worlds.


Y~

*****Now, please note, the COS is not a dating service or a way to "hook-up." If you ask you will be denied and laughed at, not to mention being forever viewed as a total dork.

Little Miss Lightning, Your Hardcore, and that’s admirable. But although she is not a Satanist, she's still a keeper!

Ygraine what do you mean by HP Gilmore suggesting a visit to your old store? Did you own a store? I know this question may sound ridiculous but I'm new to this. And how are you or others public Satanist? I would also like to be public Satanist?

I think by public Satanist, she meant open to releasing the fact that she is a Satanist. Many Satanists do not talk freely about it, it is their little secret.

Understood.

For sure, I would avoid being involved with someone who values "a relationship with God" more than a relationship with ME.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Well, and come to think of it, Satanists are close to being the only people who can consistently tolerate me and really seem to appreciate me, anyway.

The muggles all too often turn their noses up at me, but a number of other Satanists have apparently found me sssssmokin' hot and/or heartwrenchingly cute (or so I am told).

So, that's another reason to fish for a Satanic mate, then---they're the fish that are actually biting!

It can certainly be a rough ride if the other person doesn't respect your boundaries. In a previous marriage, I had a wife who destroyed my music collection while I was at work (God told her to do it), constantly badgered me about praying, and constantly harrassed me about being a "man of God". This was quite the nightmare.

I don't personally care what my spouse believes, as long as there is a mutual respect allowing me to engage in my religion (or lack thereof) as I please. Again, I think it has more to do with mutual respect.

After a string of pair-bonds (3, 5, 12 years), I now tend to think of intimate relations as, at best, no matter the intensity of passions, simply Current Companions along the way. Mutual respect, good, enjoyable, "transactions", are mostly what can be expected.

When we will have completed the "rapid evolution" process of the last 50 years or so, I am fairly certain, relationships are another area which will be completely different at the "end" than they were at the beginning, or in the middle/now.

Business/household partnerships are another matter of course. Equity of understanding, if not agreement in conceptualization, is fairly required for any kind of success.

I look forward to society's maturation and the freedom to like/love/lust WHO you want WHEN you want without energy dispersion.

That's just me though, it's also nice to curl up at night with the Familiar.

G.

More power to you.

I certainly do not posses the patience to be so considerably unconvinced; that I would fake respect for someone whom I do not agree with on the most important things in life. Basically ALL the rules of the Earth!

Ok, let me set the record straight, I have had sexual partners who were defacto at best, and that is fine, but my patience wanes with the slightest hint of religious indoctrination that hasn’t been dropped off at my doorstep.

You know, maybe there's something to that. Hell, I think you're smokin' hot and I don't even have the slightest idea what you look like!

-Chess

Awww, you're a dear.

And, of course there are muggles who like me, too, but establishing a good and enjoyable rapport with them is often much harder, and much more of an arduous, precise, slow-going process.

I never said no relationships with non-Satanists, I said I don't think I'd be willing to enter the legal institution of marriage with a non-Satanist.


I'm in no hurry to get hitched any time soon anyway, so I can afford to very picky.

When I first met my husband, he was more agnostic than anything else...with a lot of Buddhist flavoring. When we started dating he taught me how to use a computer, so I suppose his first clue as to my religious beliefs was when "Satanism" was one of the first topics I typed in to a search engine.

Like most people I've known, his first thought at the word "Satanist" were of drunk or drugged up kids sticking their tongues out and flashing horns while trying to come up with new and exciting ways to piss off their parents. So, as I do with everyone else who worries about my religious beliefs that I give a damn about, I sat him down and told him otherwise.

It didn't surprise him when I joined the Church of Satan a few years later. It did surprise him how many interesting (and more importantly, intelligent) people he's met because of my affiliation, and he certainly doesn't complain when I tell him that we're having some "of those evil Satanists" over for dinner or that we're going out to catch up with a few of my friends.

I met Virus9 here on this message board, so religious affiliation wasn't an issue between us. When he moved in there were a few jokes about my husband being "outnumbered", but that's it.

Previous to these relationships, I've dated across the religious board but rarely was it an issue. One of my old boyfriends was Catholic, and he once told me that he felt I was more "advanced" than he was because I was someone who no longer needed an external god.

Come to think of it, I've never ended a relationship for reasons of religious differences.

It's been my experience that it boils down to how seriously someone of faith takes their religion as to how well they'll mix with a Satanist. Or how much they appreciate personal choice when it comes to faith. I've dated plenty of people who held their god very dearly but accept the idea that they can't "save" me and were content to just enjoy my company in the here and now. Although I have had a few people tell me that they're going to "put in a good word" for me at the pearly gates.

But keep in mind, I tend to move in some rather unusual and open-minded social circles.

Now mixing with someone who is of the bible-thumping variety, forget it. That's just asking for a world of trouble.

So I have a question to anyone willing to answer it:

I have never met another Satanist in person, and only one of my past romantic interests could be considered a de facto. Because of this, I'm finding it somewhat surprising that even if you are choosing to date Satanists exclusively, where exactly are you finding them?

This is not a question posed to encourage a "Satanic Dating Service", but more of a question of curiosity of how you meet the "others".

With the exception of a few de factos, Satanists do not abound in my immediate surroundings.

I think it is highly unlikely that a Satanist will meet another Satanist not via the internet.

As I said before, I see nothing wrong with using the internet to find mates- on the contrary, I think it saves a great deal of time and fruitless effort to just browse a site where you can find like-minded individuals.
I think the herd attitude of "date-finding through the internet is for dorks" if highly old-fashioned- and as time progresses, it would vanish completely.

I'd never have met the person I love most if it was not due to that technology. And I'm very grateful for it.

Really? How ever did we manage before the internet came about? The internet is but one tool. There are others. Placing all your eggs in one basket will limit your scope, and perhaps create a large scramble.

The only married Satanist I know of who met before the days of the internet met through the CoS.
And since I didn't want to discuss the CoS as a "dating service" (though I know it does often act as one unintentionally), I didn't mention it.
But how DO you meet another Satanist if not via wither of these?

I guess it is possible, but damn- it must be really hard.

I had my first relationship with a Satanist many years ago, and we happened to be introduced by mutual friends when he was visiting them from out of town. While I had identified myself as a Satanist years before I met him, he was actually the first CoS member that I ever came into contact with in real life. This came at a time when I really had no desire to seek out other Satanists, and didn't think of making any effort to do so. The fact that he was a member was really just the icing on the cake in our relationship, but I'm certain that we would have dated even if we didn't have that in common. It was not until years later that I joined the organization and developed other friendships with Satanists. Needless to say, most of my relationships have been with non Satanists... but they have been atheists. I've never just happened to stumble upon another member in any city I've lived in.

While I don't personally consider it an impossibility to have a successful relationship with an atheist, I will say that in my mind, the absolute ideal would be to have a companion that is a bona fide Satanist. As was stated already in this thread, it really makes it so much easier when there is not so much to explain.. even about the fundamentals of who you are and what makes you tick.

Yes, I agree. I have met so many people that are Satanists, folks familiar with Anton LaVey's works and respect him greatly, that I am boggled by the prospect of the circumstances impossibility.

I am only 22 and never leave the house, at that!

~raising eyebrows~
How the hell do you do it?

I have a deep bias against theists that I will probably hold dear to my empty heart until I cease to exist. Atheists have much more potential as life long mates in my eyes.

I don't know if I would marry another Satanist. If all the pieces fit then whether or not they are a Satanist shouldn't be an issue. Satanists are a diverse bunch. You shouldn't expect that such a quality, even as valuable as it is, would be a deciding factor. I can see how a common Satanic philosophy would make life really smooth for a couple.

Though from what I read here, Satanic couples are matches made in hell.

I believe that.

Without divulging too much of my private life, I would have to say that it is harder being in a relationship with a Theist. But, I know the difficultly in being with an Atheist or Satanist. The ego factor comes into play. Jealousy is some of it, too.

I have to say that I could not stay in any relationship without the lover knowing and accepting my Satanist views, values, and ways. It is who I am...so in essence, not accepting that is saying you don't accept ME.

Likewise. At most, they were vague agnostics, perhaps even deists. With the exception of the defacto man, none had a concrete idea, most didn't consider the question important.

Although thinking about the defacto man now, he was most definitely a magician, of both greater and lesser magic. Although he may not have used those terms.



Hm yes, I imagine this is so.

Although I have this very poetic and tragic image of breaking up with a Satanist and trying to date muggles after. Like feeling sad after great sex with someone who's leaving the country.

I have a suspicion that, once you experience it, it ain't easy to go back.

If he never leaves the house it must be via the inter-web.

If I could, I would like to go beyond the spouse-to-spouse understanding and then ask what about bringing up the children?

Of course, as wise individuals we have great confidence in our choices and our own upbringings so we often like to encourage and reflect these standards and values on to our children.

My partner, who was brought up a Catholic, proposed that she would like to raise her children as Catholic because 'that worked for her'. I sensed almost a panic of sorts to 'allocate' the child to a religion once passed the 'Loins of Life'. Is this really necessary?

Personally, I feel that a child should be brought into this world by loving parents or parent and be initially taught proper morals and values that will serve them well in life.

A child should be left free to devise their own thoughts and beliefs as they see beneficial to themselves whilst they grow and mature. All this under the watchful eye and guidance of their guardians.

The beauty of childhood is innocence and fantasy. It is these attributes or abilities that create new trains of thought and aid them in getting to know their emotions at the clearest levels, learning and developing their minds.

Children can teach us alot, especially in the use of Greater Magic

Excuse the tangent taken here from the original topic but I saw a branch to be taken


HS!

I have always thought, as stated earlier, that there is nothing wrong with TEACHING a child your viewpoints. As with any thing, I don't believe religion or philosophy should be IMPOSED on anyone, child or otherwise. My child will be taught about Satanism when they are old enough to comprehend it, but just as I discovered, if it does not reflect who they are already in it's entirity, they and I will both know they are not meant to be a Satanist. And thats fine, too.

I would HOPE that my kid have the common sense not to be some God fearing patsy, but you can never be too sure...

Remember, Satanists are born not made.

As we discovered the literature and found our own reflection, our kids one day may or may not do the same.

HS!

Not to worry.

All of the kids I grew up with that were educated in the Catholic school system turned out to be Atheists.

noordenzuid, that is exactly what I was trying to say. But as a Satanist, the kid is eventually going to stumble upon The Satanic Bible, or the Satanic Scriptures, and as the curious little fellow that he is, will wonder why daddy has books about "the devil" lying around...I will be more then happy to inform about what they are.

Speaking from experience, had I not been forced into religion from an early age (I resisted tooth and claw every step of the way) and given the chance to discover it on my own, I would have been much less conflicted through my teen years early adult life.

I think when children have questions you should answer them to the best of your ability or direct them to someone who can answer them better than you. This should apply to everything, including religion.

It is unfortunate that you had to go through that kind of shit, HoundDog. I was lucky to grow up in an atheist household, with an atheist family (Immediate, and extended.) So Satanism felt extremely natural to me when I first read about it, like a light bulb clicked on. No conversion necessary; whatever this book was saying, I already WAS.

When I told my mother about Satanism, and that I was Satanist, there was not a single chortle or angry look. It was nice and easy, and I should be one of the lucky ones; seems likely there are more then a few Satanists who's parents, etc, raised them in a strictly Catholic household (Or, insert X religion here) Telling THOSE parents you have joined the Church of Satan is an annoyance I sure wouldn't want to put up with.

Indeed, you are a lucky one. I somewhat envy you.

I simply must add My .02 cents to this discussion because.....

It is very relevant to what is NOW going on in My life.

I have been married for over ten years.

When I met My (soon to be husband) he was yes, a defacto at best.

Still, he respected My views and never questioned My rituals or My reading materials.

Then....

The god of all assholes moved in with Us. (How this happened is inconsequential).

The bottom line is this:

You cannot change a Leopards spots.

I tried very hard to live this holy life. To do these things in this 'holy book'.

I failed miserably and who wouldn't? The test are set up for anyone to fail!

Eventually I settled back into who I was and well, I suppose he didn't like that very much.

When I joined to CoS I think he had a hissy fit and expected Me to be struck down by god the father, the son and the freaking holy ghost.

Eve is single now if that tells you anything.

So, in the future (should I decide to have any other human companionship) I will be very careful to look for a Satanist.

They say that opposites attract. (Well, I say that too many opposite views= destruction).

I am still married...but My husband simply could not condone My heretic behavior.

He also has no understanding in My Scientific studies of prolonging human life.

I am very fortunate that We do NOT have children.

A bird and a fish can fall in love......but where.......do they make a home?

Well, lexiphanic, go ahead and call me poetic and tragic as well.

In my experience, that's very similar to what it's like. It's much easier to date non Satanists when you don't have that other relationship to compare it to.

Allow me a moment of your time.

I am only commenting on this because of my own past with Jehovah's Witnesses and my extensive knowledge of the inner workings of that particular religion. Most of which is hidden even from their own members.

For one, you've stated that she was raised in this cult. This presents unique problems different to other Christian religions. As I am sure you are aware she has never celebrated a single holiday, let alone her own birthday, and does not, will not, take up arms to defend her country. This presents problems in and of itself, especially if you have children and you want to raise them celebrating all the holidays.

Then there is this issue of blood transfusions. If she's dying on an emergency room gurney bleeding out, and a blood transfusion could save her life, she will die because her religion mandates Mosaic law stupidity. You will lose her for her religion. She will die, because stupid old men in New York City do not value her life more than she does, or you do.

If your children are ever in need of medical attention that requires treatment that originates or has anything to do with even derivatives of human blood. You can expect her and the MASSIVE legal department from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to decend upon your family like hawks and obtain court orders and injunctions preventing you from saving your child's life.

Should you ever divorce with children, again that massive legal department will intervene on her behalf and take your children away from you in a court of law. I've seen it done before.

And then there is the matter of the people that are involved with this religion in general.

The Catholic Church has NOTHING on pedophiles like the Jehovah's Witnesses do. In fact, the openly, and make an EFFORT to convert ex-convicts, the insane, and perverts. Then according to their own internal policies they will harbor and shelter them from the law when they re-offend. And that same massive legal department is there to get gag orders and silence any people victimised by other members of said religion. I've seen it done.

If two of them come knocking at your door you have a one in ten chance that that person your are talking to is either crazy, an ex-con, or likes to molest little kids. Don't even open the door to slam it in their face. They don't even deserve that much respect.

My advice to you is break it off unless she stops being a Jehovah's Witness. I've been with all kinds of religious girls, but you do NOT want a relationship with a practicing Jehovah's Witness. And getting her to quit her religion is going to be impossible. They are taught, no brainwashed, into having a persecution complex. The religion becomes central to their whole way of life. I'm surprised you two even hooked up because social association on a level other than extremely platonic with a "goat" or "worldly person" is frowned upon at best, if not strictly verboten.

You can deal with them in one fashion, cut them out of your life, or allow them to take it over. There is no middle ground with a Jehovah's Witness.

They're a suprisingly progressive religion. Instead of "Convert or Die!" it's "Convert or We Sue!".

This is simply an observation...I have noticed a large number of people here who either were once, or had parents who were, Jehovah Witnesses.

Felstorm,

Regardless of the reason that was an intriguing post.

I think I learned more about JW from your post than everything I've ever read about them put together.

Very cool and very disturbing.

Y~

I shivered when I read this. It may be 13 degrees Fahrenheit here, but that was damn scary.

RaSc, agreed, and I don't even know a single Jehova. I know the entire point behind Satanism is seperating yourself from the flock, so to speak, but it is both pathetic and terrifying to see so many other people who's lives are completely wasted on this meaningless garbage, to the point where they will let their own children DIE because the church tells them too. That is a mothers greatest instinct, (right after preservation of the self, which they also ignore) to protect her offspring. The fact that these assholes can take that away is as big a crime as murder to me, and they are doing it every day. If following some fake god means one has to give up, quite literally, their very nature as human beings, then count me out. I think after all the debates and conversation here, staying away from religious fanatics should not be a dispute, a point of contention in any way; every Satanist would be wise to listen to AT LEAST that advice.

If you couldn't tell, Felstorm, I really enjoyed that post.

My wife and I were discussing this thread last night. She doesn't post on or read this board, but I like to share relative topics with her. Interestingly enough, her thoughts on the CoS is that "at least you didn't tell me you were a Mormon!" I agreed.

My personal rule is that my religion is my own and no one else's. Regardless of my affiliation, I won't expect her (or my children) to adopt my non-beliefs. I see it as a non-issue. However, my wife has a valid point. Although my rule is non-invasive, which also happens to be the CoS stance (to clarify I mean non-proselytizing), this isn't the case with the majority (all?) of herd religions. Had I chosen such a corrosive religion as Mormonism, I might be tempted to control my wife and children in unfair ways. Just the thought of this makes me sick.

I'll make this even simpler.

Don't talk to them. Don't give them money. Don't take their pamphlets. Don't even give them the finger.

I was in two congregations that went through a massive shake-up over two "elders" that were fucking their teenage daughters, and anyone else under the legal age limit they could get isolated with long enough, including attempts on myself. I watched seven different families get torn apart because of their bullshit. And when they tried to go to the media about it, they were silenced with gag orders.

I will attend Catholic Mass before I'll go back into a "Kingdom Hall".

And you have no idea the amount of Orwellian "Newspeak" they have. The get a hold of a potential victim and they totally re-frame that person. It's not a church. It's the "Kingdom Hall". There are no crosses inside, that's "pagan", and they'll spend hours and hours explaining it to you until you want to throw up. There are 5 separate "Services" every week. That's not counting the time you are expected to spend out annoying people on the weekends.

The "Book study" 2 hours long and you better come prepared with all your shit highlighted and underlined. This is a Question and Answer event, active participation is a must. Jesus is watching you.

The "Theocratic Ministry School". 2 Hours. Literally a school where they teach people how to approach other people that don't want to be bothered with their shit and convert them. This becomes obligatory at a certain point, otherwise you get the "shunning". Public speaking is taught, and some "congregations" go as far as voice conditioning. People that "Go in Service" aka prostyltisng(sic) full-time 40 hours a week (No Shit!) are given a special title called "Pioneer". Only people that have "Pioneered" for sixth months can get to go work at "Bethel", the code word for their Brooklyn headquarters. And if they are REALLY special they can go to "Gilead" another more advanced version of The Theocratic Ministry School to be trained in foreign languages and be sent to places like Ghana, and Cambodia to convert more people.

This is then followed by discussion of a document called "The Kingdom Ministry" which often details how to downplay negative press. One Hour. It is basically the live-wire to WTBS central and the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" as the old fogeys that run the cult call themselves.

The "Sunday Talk". One hour. Some shmendrick gets on the podium and nags about some topic or another. Either how the world isn't good enough for them, or how ugly it is. And why Jehovah is going to get all pissed off at us "Goats" annihilate us all in a conflagration of doom and they can live happily ever after in a Paradise where no-one get sick or dies, and it's one big garden/Elysian Fields.

The "Watchtower Study". One hour. Another shmuck gets on the stage with a co-hort to read paragraphs from the Watchtower Magazine. This is a Question and Answer event and you had better have your shit underlined and participate! Or else Jehovah will send an elder to fuck your kids... I mean Satan will possess your cat and make your toast burn.

I personally didn't really realise how much double-talk there was and how much NLP-like programming they do to people until I was on the outside looking in. Jehovah's Witnesses wrote the books on it. Scientology may bring in more money, but the Jehovah's Witnesses are completely and totally self-sufficient and had this gig down pat before 1914. Scientology took more than a couple clues from these guys.

Their whole headquarters in Brooklyn is totally independant. They do everything except make their own electricity, and they can do that too if needed. There is a whole farm complex in upper New York State that literally grows all the food that they eat at the printing factories in Brooklyn. To work there is to them like it is a Muslim going to Medina. And people go there in droves. They get paid a living allowance of roughly $100 a year. They live, are fed by, clothed by, sleep in, and fuck there year round by the monolithic giant called The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. (Getting caught fucking there is like... you may as well kill yourself. I'm serious. The social ostracism is unbelievable.)

They have a very carefully manicured facade that they present to the public.

And don't rock the boat. You'll find yourself "Disfellowshipped" aka "Excommunicated" in a heartbeat. And they go the whole nine yards. Nobody in their organisation will talk to you. Ever. Again.

Which could be a really good thing.

We are all profoundly influenced, for good or ill, by what we've been exposed to religiously.

Your anger sounds completely warranted.

Now, though, it is up to you to file that understandable hatred, and refuse to allow it to define you. I say this because I can almost feel your anger/pain through your post.

Don't even give them that power---the power to press your buttons and become the opposite of them, because that is still granting them power.

I have a problem with this sort of thing also, and your posts have revealed to me that I, too, have allowed that which I abhor to have too big a place in my life.

I thank you for that, and thank you for all info that will assist all of us, and wish you well.

Y~

EXCELLENT POSTS!

Quote of the YEAR!

Excellent posts indeed Felstorm, and I thought my Southern Baptist upbringing was sinister. It never ceases to amaze me what insanity zealots are capable of. I really enjoyed reading your story, thank you for sharing that with us.

My wife has explained to me the inner workings of the kingdom halls, but not to such a degree. She has explained disfellowshipping to me. I can see where that would be a good thing. Delia also explained how they despise any "worldly" things, or outside teachings. I explained it to her as being the same reason why slave owners prohibited slaves from reading. They were afraid that if the slaves were to read they would become smarter and revolt. She hadn't thought of it in that way before. JW's are not much far removed from Jim Jones' people's temple. I wonder what's taking them so long?

Excellent posts, Felstorm...

Never before have I read such ghastly information regarding the Jehovah's Witnesses. Quite horrifying it is to know about the inner workings of this theist cult. Your anger toward these monsters permeates through your writing and for your thoughts I thank you for uncovering such details that were unbeknownst to me. Your every word drips with venom. I knew it was utterly shocking in the Catholic church yet I had no idea that it was so atrocious in the kingdom halls. My ignorance of that wretched path had made me think that hardly anything was going wrong with them. Crimes against humanity and children are what I despise. I am disgusted that these men, these liars, these masters of hypocrisy, these exalted "elders" who are nothing more than weavers of deceit would commit such abominable acts... Yet, I am not surprised.

It brings a tear to my eye wrought from wrath to read these things. For your past disturbances with these bastards you have my deepest condolences.

If you truly love and respect one another, nothing else matters.

Mass suicide will never happen. They won't get their "Earthly Reward" if they do.

I'll just explain the whole idea that is driving Jehovah's Witnesses.

It goes like this.

This is based largely upon the Book of Revelations. And it's lots and lots of weird speculation and mathematical backflipping they've gone through to validate it.

"Real Soon Now"(tm) there is going to be a "Great Tribulation" in where the United Nations is going sally forth and attempt to annihilate all religion on the planet. We are all living in the "End Times" which started in 1914. (And they can prove it!) How that is going to happen is beyond me, they can't even stop a slaughter in Darfur let alone start an organised war on religion. Supposedly at the end of this Great Tribulation the big bad mean United Nations is going to turn it's attention on the Jehovah's Witnesses. That's when all hell is going to break loose.

That is when Jehovah is going to send his son Jesus to annihilate all the "wicked" on the planet. Real fire and real sulphur will rain from the skies and Jesus and his army of angels are really going to like materialise and will go on a murderous rampage killing all the wicked people on the planet. Then after all that bloodshed he is going to hunt down Satan and his demons which are trapped on this planet because they lost the War in Heaven. Of course Satan loses. Then Jesus and all his angels will toss Satan and his demons into a mysterious "Abyss". Where this is, no-one knows, and if you ask them to speculate they'll simply tell you that they don't know or that they don't doubt the existence of it because it is in the infallible bible.

Hokay, so after all that slaughter is over with. And the only people left standing are Jehovah's Witnesses. Jehovah in all his omnipotent might declares that all 5 million or so of them have 1000 years to clean up the planet and turn it into a garden. But not to worry! Jehovah is ressurecting all of the dead people before 1914! If you died before that date, you're in luck, you're getting a free pass! Get out of jail, get $200! He's also going to cure all your sicknesses, and grant you "Everlasting Life" for your faithfullness. Also known as the "Earthly Reward".

But there's a hitch!

At the end of the "Thousand Year Reign", Satan is going to be let out of the Abyss to torment humanity once again. There are no details on what Satan is going to do for being locked up for so long, but making people "evil" and "wicked" again is his main goal. I recall artwork in one of their books where these "rebellious goats" are depicted as hippies. If the worst Satan can do is hippies, I'm disappointed.

(The artwork is actually really good, most of it is done in oils or watercolor by another small army classically trained artists in their Brooklyn headquarters. In fact they compose all the artwork in their literature, compose their own music with their own orchestra, write all their own hymns and songs.)

Then after Satan has had his undefined "day of wickedness" Jehovah is going to crush Satan like a bug, and all the wicked people too. Then they'll all live happily ever after.

But there is a hitch. Not EVERYONE is going to get to life forever. No no no. There is a special group of people. "The Annointed". And there are only 144,000 of them. And when they die, they get to go to heaven and serve in a massive senate like arrangement to help govern humans after Armageddon. "The Annointed" are the only ones allowed to partake of the "Emblems of Christ's Sacrifice" at true lunar Passover. Unlike Catholics that always take the wine and the cracker at Mass. Only a very select few people can partake of crackers and wine. And even then they have to go through a whole rigamarole of validation by the elders in the congregation, then the "Circuit Overseer" and then finally the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" in Brooklyn. But don't pay attention to the numbers, there are WAY over 144,000 of these people claiming that. But you'll never hear of it.

In fact, they have in the past gone so far as to predict the day and time of the start of the Great Tribulation. And that kind of thing was printed several times in several publications in the past. 1914 used to be the year when it was all going to end. When it came and went. They changed it. Then it was 1930. 1932 came and went. Then it was 1975. 1975 came and went and there was an uproar within the organisation then called "The Great Apostacy". All those people were summarily kicked out. So now they've gone to a "Real Soon Now, Any Minute." philosophy. They won't give an exact date anymore, and they went back and sanitised all their old literature. You used to be able to go into a Kingdom Hall and access ALL of the publications ever printed by the WBTS. You can't do that anymore. Anything printed before 1975 has been removed. Can't have people figuring it out like I did.

I didn't figure out that it was all a bunch of bullshit until I was locked in the Kingdom Hall library as punishment for not wanting to go "out in service" banging on people's doors.

What does a kid do with 8 hours and a library full of books? I started reading. I read everything. And that was the day I figured out they were full of it. And I had all the evidence in front of me. I even mentioned it to my parents, which got me punished further for questioning my religion. Big no no. At that point I was resigned to waiting until I was 18 and couldn't be forced to attend the meetings anymore and my parents didn't have a choke-hold on the material I was allowed to read.

Over the years they've also vacillated on their stance on blood and medicine. At one time you couldn't even let your kids get vaccines for common diseases. I wonder how many kids that killed. And then it was blood transfusions. They'd have articles in the Watchtower praising the parents of children for their faith after letting thier kids die on operating room tables and emergency rooms by denying them a blood transfusions. All the people that died because they couldn't get a bone marrow transplant.

What they've done to their own followers is criminal. It's worse than Jim Jones because it's killed more and it's doing it in slow motion.

Eighteen years of attending their services three times a week every week and hours upon hours upon hours of knocking on people's doors in the mornings. I was duly and righteously pissed off for several years after I left them.

Now I just try and educate people to what they are REALLY like, and what they really believe and what they'll do to you and your family if you let them in.

Don't talk to them. Don't even give them the grace of your time or the heat of your breath.

They are scum.

Wow! It is shocking for me to discover that you were once a Jehovah Witness. And that you went through all of that bullshit.

I met a woman once (she came to my door) who was an X Black Panther, she had given up a high powered executive position making oodles of money so that she could do her "pioneer" work. She was now doing janitorial work to pay her bills.

This was one of the most beautiful women I ever met. She was a black lady about 5'11" with a body to die for.

I had to talk to her...

I let her in my house and managed to get all that information after about one hour. She came around a few more times, she pretended to think I was going to buy into what she was saying, even though I made it perfectly clear I was an atheist and even though I flirted with her. (In a subtle way of course)

Eventually she stopped coming around, I heard she moved away to California. I sometimes wonder if I had anything to do with that.



What a crock - I'm glad you made it the hell out of that mess with all your mental capabilities in tact. You're one of my favorite people here on lttd.

Hail Satan!

Im not going to write anything lengthy here, this post has wowed me way to much, but I will say..

Have you written anything of length about this topic? Something so shocking (to me, anyways, though at the same time it SHOULDN'T be a surprise) deserves to be immortalized somehow...I'd hate to see this wonderful set of articles vanish due to lack of "Bumping".

Very fascinating, truly the best read I have found on these boards. I express almost fanatical enthusiasm about these forums, I know, but I have never seen such a place that contains so much fascinating articles, opinions, art, etc. If only the rest of the
"interweb" contained a quarter of the intelligent conversation that this board has.

But what else should one expect from a congregation of Satanists?

Wow. That's the best justification for the existence of the UN I've ever heard. Where can I get a blue beret?

More seriously, thanks for these details. Here I thought the main problem with the JWs was that they let their kids die and they ring my doorbell way too early in the morning. (I'm long past opening the door to slam it in their faces - if I don't see a friend's car or a UPS truck and I wasn't expecting any guests, I never answer the doorbell anyway.)

Thus is every organized religion basically revealed.

Do anything you have to do to preserve your Self.

I know how you feel. You find all these "applets" running in your mind and you just ache to rend and tear it out, and then go after the sons-of-bitches that put it in there.

The answer I find, as recommended here; give it time. You will prevail if your desire is strong.

Thank you for your kind words, Madame.

My ire for them has subsided many years ago. I have much bigger fish to fry. Why deal with minnows?

The only thing I could consider "contact" I have with them is with my mother, who still talks to me. And I guess she gets shit for that from her congregation. Since I'm such a "black sheep" and all. Maybe one day she'll get "burned at the stake" and I can resume a normal relationship with her. But as long as she remains loyal to them, I limit my contact to her.

As an aside, my posting "style" has a distinct edge. Harsh at times I suppose.

At least that is what I'm told.

I just brook no nonsense. A spade is a spade.

Your JW stories are fascinating and told in an excellent fashion. Maybe you should write a book?

The problem is that if I wrote a book about what has really happened in my life, it'd probably get me killed.

And I'm not kidding in the least.

I'm sorry to hear that.

On a positive note, though, I'll agree with others that it speaks immeasurably well of you to have gone through all that (and I'm sure MUCH more) and have still come as you did. Your intelligence and iron will are admirable and only more impressive when one considers your past.

Being raised a hardcore christian. Made me hate god. I even hate the name christian..... haha. What a curse to have been named that.

Felstorm: good thoughts thanks for your perspective. By the time I married her she had left the Jehovah's Witnesses, otherwise I would of never married her. She was forced into it as a child, and yes she did miss some holidays, like Christmas, Halloween, and missed some birthday parties. But she is human now, and we have fun. But the point still remains the same she is not a Satanist, but oh well I love her. And I'm raising my kids in a loving household, that just so happens to have one Satanic father. And yes when they are ready I will answer their questions, in a delicate manner they can understand, so as not to freak them out.

She would really be amused if she knew that me and my Satanic friends were discussing her! Apparently this is a good topic.

Yeah good piont Roho..

That is truly remarkable, Felstorm, and I agree that you should put your information together and publish it. I knew a little about them, but Damn! Maybe they could release a vidoe and call it "Sheep Gone Wild." (sinister grin)

Most excellent posts.

As is the age of this thread.

It invariably comes out in any relationship. If they have a problem with it, I will politely show them the door and we can remain friends, however if they refuse my friendship then to heaven with them (for I certainly wouldn't want them to visit me in hell lol). There have been very few who have ever had a problem with it, most of the women I choose to be with only want to learn more about it. Some have even said that their views were congruant with our beliefs, though none have had the intestinal fortitude to actually call themselves what they are.

If you are honest about your values, whether you use the "S" word in describing those values or not, then you will never have to wonder if a potential partner shares those values or not.

If your relationship is founded on mutual respect and caring, then labels will have little to do with the success of your relationship.

Satanism is a flamethrower word in our culture. It is an attention-getter and has numerous associations, many of which are simply untrue as Satanists know and our literature explains (over and over).

Any relationship that can pass through those flames is likely to be able to stand most anything else in the world as well.

Exactly!

I have a very big rule about screening the religious types before dating. I do most of my meeting of people online due to working third shift, so its very easy to use websites to clear out the bible bashers.

Interestingly enough, I have recently started to see a local girl who claims to be a christian, but her family is a bunch of bible bashers. Shes a bit younger then me, and displays quite a bit of quality's that makes me believe she just hasnt blossomed out of the christian upbringing she has been forced to suffer.

She is more or less only a christian in title so her family wont kick her out I think. Thats the only reason I have continued to see her, otherwise I doubt I would have any interest.

I dont like dating people I deem less intelligent then myself, and someone who prays to an imaginary friend who lives in the sky.......yeah....

After reading through all eight pages...

I must say that Magister Nemo said exactly what I was thinking, yet could not find the perfect words for.

(Seeing as it is almost three and I have been awake since six.)

Thank you for your wise words Magister.

For me, I am getting out of my relationship because we are not compatible. To me, I need my partner to be the same. If your not a Satanist then no way, no way. I have certain things I look for in women and being a Satanist is a most important quality.

Ritualistic expression is no joke. The woman that stands by my side MUST be a Satanic Magician, she MUST be a Witch. People who are brought up under spiritual teachings can deny it all they want, but until they proclaim Allegiance to the powers of darkness and Satan, then they are still a representative of their faith.

I'm engaged to someone who thinks Satanism is hokey, and he wouldn't care if I was Eckankar or Scientologist, as long as I don't try to preach to him.

His very fervent Christian family, though... they adore me now, but give me and my quirks a label like Satanist and they'd pitch a fit, burn me alive, who knows?

I had to go back and read this thread, as it's over a year old, to remember the context of my post.

Things have changed.

I can affirm to you all, that once you go black flame, you never go back.

True indeed!

Some folks have opined that it's stupid to call oneself a Satanist, because it opens the door to all kinds of drama and so many misunderstandings. This is true, but I also argue that the name acts as a filter. If someone allows a label to dictate who I am to them--when they should be following their own gut and their own wisdom on the matter--then that sort of tendency on their part is likely to lead to other problems in the future.

(Oddly, I've also found that you sometimes need to be careful of the people who are too incurious or apathetic when it comes to Satanism. In these cases, people's ears may not be properly hooked up to their brains, because they're too busy making twitterpated googly-faces at you. In other cases, people may not have strong principles or values of their own, and I'm just not really into people like that.)

I admit that I have not read all (most) of the posts in this thread. I am not sure I have read any stating that it is stupid to call yourself a Satanist. Admitting it perhaps.

I agree with the train of thought you and Magister Nemo have taken up. I know I have stated a zillion and one times that my wife is not a Satanist...but, she went to Catholic school, and once had preconceived ideas surrounding the word "Satanist". She has read The Satanic Bible, and understands that she was misinformed. In fact, for many reasons, I am not sure she could settle for a man who does NOT exhibit Satanic qualities. As my grandpappy would say...I done spoilt her.

That is absolutely genius!

That's because our wicks are bigger.

Right on Zaftig!

I reread a number of posts from this thread, to see if my feelings changes a year later. I still find myself agreeing with Bruja, who said:

"While I don't personally consider it an impossibility to have a successful relationship with an atheist, I will say that in my mind, the absolute ideal would be to have a companion that is a bona fide Satanist. As was stated already in this thread, it really makes it so much easier when there is not so much to explain.. even about the fundamentals of who you are and what makes you tick."

Since I'm involved in a relationship with another Satanist, I thought I would comment here. I don't have to sugar-coat anything and can speak my mind. Thoughts that I would normally censor to avoid causing shock and horror, are actually appreciated. You can get down to the discussions that really matter because an understanding exists that already runs deeper than anyone I've come in contact with on a daily basis.

That being said, just because two people are Satanists doesn't mean that it will 'work' or that that they'll even be able to stand each other. There is a distinction to be made though, as was pointed out by my boyfriend (I'm paraphrasing here): Just ANY Satanist won't do, it has to be the RIGHT Satanist.

The first person to call me a Satanist during a heated theology discussion was my high school sweetheart who was of all things... Mormon.

Since I've dated Catholics, Agnostics, Orthodox Christians, Druids, Protestants, Atheists and ended up marrying a Wiccan believed that people had to be roughly the same religion in order to marry. ie. Druid & Wiccan, ok - Wiccan & Anglican, not ok

Now BF2 is Asatru Pagan, but lax with it and very non-judgemental about my beliefs. We talk about it a lot.

BF1 is Atheist and very rigid about it. He believes that all religions are a joke even though I've tried to explain how Satanism is different.
He doesn't judge me. I could be any religion in his opinion as long as I don't discuss it with him. He doesn't even want to try to understand. He just wants to be left alone. I'm cool with that.

When I first met my wife, I did not mention anything about Satanism or being a Satanist.

One day in my home she happened to notice my collection of books, one being The Satanic Bible (among others). At first she was a bit taken aback and almost upset that I did not tell her my "affiliation" so to speak.

After I explained to her what Satanism was about and my reasoning for not informing her right away she saw that it was not what her Catholic upbringing had told her it was.

When she saw how I lived my life and how I viewed things, it really opened her eyes and made her realize, deep down, that she had many of the same thoughts.

Almost 6 years later, getting married, and having 2 beautiful children later, I would say she has shown many attributes of being one of the Elite. Although she has not come out and called herself a Satanist, and has not joined the CoS as of yet, I would consider her a Satanist.

And I like to think I helped open her eyes to it all!

I started "dating" my wife in 1971, when she was 14 and I was 16. We're still together 37 years later, having attended numerous churches during our relationship, me finally studying theology with the Church of England over 20 of those years. She's a social christian (small "c" deliberate) whilst I am what I am. My introduction to the codification of what I am came through my son, now a Warlock in the CoS. We spent hours discussing the philosophy, while my wife looked on with that "they'll grow out of it", slightly wistful air. I assured her that my son's involvement was probably just a phase, (it wasn't) but also admitted that most, ok, all of what he said made sense - to me at least. Reluctantly I think, she agreed.

What finally convinced her was my son's trip to LA in 2006 for the 666 celebrations. The incredible welcome he received coupled with the final understanding that people who profess Satanism don't do the baby sacrifice thing turned her.

Now she's a supporter. She still winces when either of us blaspheme, part of her history and conditioning she will admit, but every now and again she'll come out with a statement which is pure Satanism.

The reasons that we get along philosophically is because we have more than that going on. We are able to agree on most things, but it's no more important than having to agree on what TV programmes we like, or what our favourite colour is.

I also found her more accepting once I stopped wearing those little horns and the false tail. Especially at her mum's house.

1) I am married to a Christian whom I both love and look forward to divorcing.

2) It does not work.

3) Marriage is just the introduction of the State into Your personal relationships.

4) Despair, Inc., says it best "The only thing in common with all of Your failed relationships is You". (Or, thereabouts.)

5) The only thing in commond with My failed relationships is Me.

6) She unalphabetized My CDs, man!

7) Just kidding. The big difference between a Satanist and people of many other religions is "Who is the victim?".

8) Satanism holds no victims except those of their own actions, vice many other religions, and people.

9) Maybe she though God would realphebetize My CDs.

10) Just kidding, but My wife thinks God does many things. Too bad she does not reallize God does not, because God is busy sitting on her ass waiting for Someone else to make things happen.

11) I look forward to meeting a Satanist or other like-minded Individual after I divorce My wife.

Hope this information was helpful.

I'm in the same boat as you are interestingly enough. Right now as a matter of fact. Everything you write above minus the cd's applies to me as well.

The seed was planted way before I joined the Church of Satan.

I'll live though.

FC

Wise words, Magister.

When my wife and I were dating, we were honest about our values from the start. One day, I “discovered” Satanism online. My wife, who at the time was my live-in girlfriend, and I read the Satanic Bible. For both of us, it simply clicked; we were, and had always been, Satanists. We continued to read all the literature we could get our hands on and lurked on these boards for some time. It was obvious who here “got it” and who simply thought “being a Satanist” sounded nifty.

After studying Satanism for about two years, my wife and I decided to formalize our commitment to Satanism by joining the Church in May of 2006. We also sent in Active Membership applications at that time. Although we have not heard back about Active Membership, it has NOT barred us from meeting CoS members, some of the most intelligent, amicable, and enjoyable people ever. With every CoS member I have ever met I have felt an instant connection. As Witch TrojZyr wrote in this thread, “I've discovered that I often feel that much closer to Satanists and share more in common with them automatically.”

On June 30, 2007, we were wed in a Satanic Ceremony presided over by Reverend Malebranche. We had the honor of having in attendance the wise Magisters Nemo and Isabel, Jack’s hilarious partner, Warlock Fenriz and his sweet wife, the skilled mask maker Enki, the lovely Witch TrojZyr, the magical Luther Snow, the enticing Kallisto, and my younger brother. It was an unforgettable experience, and our “family farce” wedding paled in comparison despite the substitution of readings from Nietzsche’s Thus Spoke for Biblical scripture.

Although Satanism and the Church are an important part of my life, my wife and I would still have the same relationship and the same values if we had not “discovered” Satanism; as Magister Nemo stated above, Satanism is merely a label. However, without the Church, neither of us would have had the opportunity to develop skills in Greater Magic, which have proven fruitful. Prior to discovering Satanism, my wife was a witch using primarily Wicca as a tool but not buying in to the faith, and disenchanted with its hypocrisy and limitations. I identified as a pragmatic atheist; not a capital A atheist who is just as guilty as the fundamentalist for believing he is omnipotent. Pragmatic atheism (look for Magister Nemo’s explanation of the label, it’s here somewhere) is one part of Satanism, but there is much more and many more levels…. I feel as if I’m beginning to go on a tangent so I’ll cut myself off.

Oh, yeah, You will definitely live, as will I.

The great thing is that we both do still love each other, and we still get along quite well. In fact, I think we have been getting along much better with the prospect of divorce, and I would relish it to continue a friendly relationship after the divorce.

I was speaking mostly in jest about the CDs thing, but I am dead serious about the introduction of the State in My relationship. In terms of official public declaration and writ on paper, that is all marriage is. I will be hard pressed to get married again.

I've never had a relationship with a Satanist, and since I realized myself as a Satanist, all my relationships have fallen apart eventually because of differing beliefs.

Quite frankly, those relationships weren't very rewarding for me, and I would rather be single (I do like myself a lot).

I'm still young though, and on the everlasting hunt for a Satanist. I just want someone who I can be open with, with a mutual understanding.

If you can make a relationship with a non-Satanist work, then props to you. I would only object to being in a crappy relationship just to avoid being alone.