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#285338 - 11/23/07 04:13 PM "Nothing Unreal Exists"
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
“Nothing unreal exists.”

To avoid any hint of plagiarism, not to mention to conveniently segue to an underlying point of this post, please note that this line (and the title of the post) could refer either (and I beg pardon in advance for this) a partial quote from the first lines of “A Course in Miracles” which is not necessarily distasteful and is even quite humorous if considered for the work of fiction that it is … or from “Kiri-Kin-Tha’s First Law of Metaphysics” (a fictional work cited within a fictional work (movie), Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.)

Now, since ACIM was originally published ten years before Star Trek IV was made, one has to wonder, did the writers knowingly swipe the partial line, were they paying some sort of backhanded homage, were they honestly repeating what they thought was an original thought?

Regardless of the reality of its “real” origin (in a work of fiction pretending (and believed by thousands) to be true, cited as a work of fiction within another work of fiction, (would that in turn be a "reel origin"?) (SORRY) ) this quote, nonetheless, always reverberates within my mind as I consider philosophical metaphysics in general, and in particular, as that touches my process of self-education in Satanic thought, as originated of course by Dr. LaVey within the written words of the Satanic Bible, et. al.

(A work which in my own subjective experience, and in the relayed experience of many of you, seems to have the quality of “already there” … thoughts which you have thought all your life find voice in these written words. “Satanists are born not made.” Interestingly enough, in my case born May 8, 1966, 9 days into AS I)

Which came first, then, one might wonder … one might, but the exploration of that question is not necessarily the point of my post.

That is what it is not, this is what it is: What in your experience as Satanists is your philosophic basis of reality? Materialism? Empiricism? What forms the bedrock “givens” in understanding your personal cosmology as a Satanist?


Any time spent upon responses is welcomed and appreciated in advance.
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285342 - 11/23/07 04:24 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
"That is what it is not, this is what it is: What in your experience as Satanists is your philosophic basis of reality? Materialism? Empiricism? What forms the bedrock “givens” in understanding your personal cosmology as a Satanist?"

Why?

How will this information be of any use to you?

If X likes eggs, and Y likes toast, will you?
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#285347 - 11/23/07 04:51 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Lust]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Because in the hopes of eliciting the thoughts of others (most of whom I respect in varying degrees, if for no other reason, greater experiential duration living "as Satanists") I request additional data to compare and contrast with my own thought processes?

In turn I pose a question to you: why ask why?
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285351 - 11/23/07 05:04 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8257
Here is a curious idea for you: start LIVING as a Satanist and THEN compare notes after a few years of actually doing and accomplishing something. ;\)

A tiger doesn't ask other tigers how to be a tiger. If it has to, it's not a tiger to begin with. It behaves and acts like what it is, and learns from other tigers' actions.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#285352 - 11/23/07 05:10 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Phineas]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Here's another curious idea ... why would anyone waste their precious and limited time responding to a question to which they don't care to respond?

Waste (your time to post), multiplying upon implied waste (my time in asking)?

I'm not asking that any tell me how to live, or what to believe, merely positing what is to me an interesting question.

If it is not an interesting question to a true tiger in some regard, I would think the tiger would simply ignore it.

*shrug*
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285354 - 11/23/07 05:18 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Before you go, let me just remind you that you said "Any time spent upon responses is welcomed and appreciated in advance".

Is it not appreciated if you do not get the answer you had hoped for?

"Why ask why?"

"The Satanic Bible advises to "question all things"- but it helps to be able to think first."
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#285355 - 11/23/07 05:18 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8257
Careful now. Tweaking a tiger's tail can be detrimental to your health.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#285358 - 11/23/07 05:24 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Lust]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
I'm not going anywhere that I'm aware of ...

If the answer given is merely a comment on the motivations of one asking a question, rather than in any sense addressing the question itself, why not in turn ask the motivation for either side-stepping the topic or implying that the questioner isn't Satanic "enough"?

I would think that in a forum of honorable discussion, responses would be in the form of statements, rather than coy and oblique references to one's own subjective suppositions of another poster.

But, ultimately the question would remain, why ask why?
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285359 - 11/23/07 05:26 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Phineas]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Only if one can't outrun or kill the tiger ... sometimes, it's amusing. ;\)
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285363 - 11/23/07 05:44 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
Are you having problems defining reality?

I think therefore i am, and because i am a Satanist i can also change my reality whenever it suits me so "reality" is subjective to the individual.

I am quite uneasy with the words "philosophical metaphysics" and "Satanic thought" being so close together in your post, Satanists are indeed born and not made and i needed no self-education to know that i thought like a Satanist from day one, perhaps here is your problem.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#285365 - 11/23/07 05:48 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
Whats more amusing is watching a masochist in action.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#285368 - 11/23/07 06:11 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: shadowraven213]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
I fear that untoward assumptions are being made.

No, I have no trouble defining reality for myself. Again, I'm not asking anyone here to tell me "what it is" but rather "what they think."

The description of this forum is "Discussions & Questions related to the Satanic Philosophy as set forth by Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan." (Colored emphasis, of course, mine.)

I don't think I misread that; has anyone else?

Let me define my use of metaphysics here, perhaps that is the problem. I'll use something generic as a citation of reference:

"Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that investigates principles of reality transcending those of any particular science, traditionally, cosmology and ontology. It is also concerned with explaining the ultimate nature of being and the world.[1] Its name derives from the Greek words μετά (metá) (meaning "after") and φυσικά (physiká meaning "physics"), "physics" referring to those works on matter by Aristotle in antiquity. The prefix meta- ("after") simply meant the chapters in the Aristotle's work that physically followed after the chapter "physics". Aristotle called them "first philosophy" ... Etc. etc.

That's the first few lines from Wikipedia "Metaphysics"

In short, as used, the term denotes a branch of philosophy, not the mundane "hoochy-coochy" that occasionally masquerades under that name.

shadowraven213, we are all different. Again, my post is not asking anyone to tell me how to think, what to believe, etc. etc. If your process is not like mine, I appreciate the information.

I posed the question to Satanists, and honestly, (and suprisingly, I admit) some of you quite simply seem so intimidated by the matter that you are seeking to defract from the essence of my questions, and/or perform what you must imagine to be "toying" with a mouse ... perhaps dropping some of your errant pre-suppositions about what I am saying would be in order.

Or damn, if you're grumpy, go take a nap.

But, bleeding-jesus-on-a-cross, let the foolishness end.

If its a pointless question in terms of your Own experience as a Satanist (again, unique for each of us an individual experience) then just say so ... and that answer I can appreciate fully.

If you think that no "true" Satanist would ever bother with such considerations, just say so, and I even can appreciate that.

Unfortunately, coy ad hominem just acts as a lightning rod, and now to my chagrin I am participating in a metadiscussion and talking more about how and why we ask questions, and the questioners and respondents, rather than the topic as posed.

I have to say, so far, the discussion has tended more toward what I would expect asking the question in a Baptist sunday-school room. "You just know." Puleeze.

This implied thread of "is you or is you not right with Satan, boy" BS is not much more than that, is it?

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#285370 - 11/23/07 06:17 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: shadowraven213]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Humor is where one finds it, isn't it? I find it, at times in watching the supercilious posting of pointless snippets.

Ha. Mea culpa. *whack*
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285373 - 11/23/07 06:35 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
 Originally Posted By: Gryphon66
I posed the question to Satanists, and honestly, (and suprisingly, I admit) some of you quite simply seem so intimidated by the matter that you are seeking to defract from the essence of my questions


I answered your question totally and concisely, and you have ceased to amuse me by totally missing the point of my post (something i wasn't surprised to see), did i intimidate you with logic and sense? too bad, back to reading about reality instead of actually defining it by your own presence within it!.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#285374 - 11/23/07 06:41 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: shadowraven213]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
*yawn* I'm put in mind of that line from Hamlet "The Lady doth protest too much ..." Thanks for playing shadowraven213.

Now, again, through the clutter:

What in your experience as Satanists is your philosophic basis of reality? Materialism? Empiricism? What forms the bedrock “givens” in understanding your personal cosmology as a Satanist?



Edited by Gryphon66 (11/23/07 06:48 PM)
Edit Reason: Forgot the elipsis, silly me.

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