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#285338 - 11/23/07 04:13 PM "Nothing Unreal Exists"
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
“Nothing unreal exists.”

To avoid any hint of plagiarism, not to mention to conveniently segue to an underlying point of this post, please note that this line (and the title of the post) could refer either (and I beg pardon in advance for this) a partial quote from the first lines of “A Course in Miracles” which is not necessarily distasteful and is even quite humorous if considered for the work of fiction that it is … or from “Kiri-Kin-Tha’s First Law of Metaphysics” (a fictional work cited within a fictional work (movie), Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.)

Now, since ACIM was originally published ten years before Star Trek IV was made, one has to wonder, did the writers knowingly swipe the partial line, were they paying some sort of backhanded homage, were they honestly repeating what they thought was an original thought?

Regardless of the reality of its “real” origin (in a work of fiction pretending (and believed by thousands) to be true, cited as a work of fiction within another work of fiction, (would that in turn be a "reel origin"?) (SORRY) ) this quote, nonetheless, always reverberates within my mind as I consider philosophical metaphysics in general, and in particular, as that touches my process of self-education in Satanic thought, as originated of course by Dr. LaVey within the written words of the Satanic Bible, et. al.

(A work which in my own subjective experience, and in the relayed experience of many of you, seems to have the quality of “already there” … thoughts which you have thought all your life find voice in these written words. “Satanists are born not made.” Interestingly enough, in my case born May 8, 1966, 9 days into AS I)

Which came first, then, one might wonder … one might, but the exploration of that question is not necessarily the point of my post.

That is what it is not, this is what it is: What in your experience as Satanists is your philosophic basis of reality? Materialism? Empiricism? What forms the bedrock “givens” in understanding your personal cosmology as a Satanist?


Any time spent upon responses is welcomed and appreciated in advance.
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285342 - 11/23/07 04:24 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
"That is what it is not, this is what it is: What in your experience as Satanists is your philosophic basis of reality? Materialism? Empiricism? What forms the bedrock “givens” in understanding your personal cosmology as a Satanist?"

Why?

How will this information be of any use to you?

If X likes eggs, and Y likes toast, will you?
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#285347 - 11/23/07 04:51 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Lust]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Because in the hopes of eliciting the thoughts of others (most of whom I respect in varying degrees, if for no other reason, greater experiential duration living "as Satanists") I request additional data to compare and contrast with my own thought processes?

In turn I pose a question to you: why ask why?
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285351 - 11/23/07 05:04 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
Here is a curious idea for you: start LIVING as a Satanist and THEN compare notes after a few years of actually doing and accomplishing something. ;\)

A tiger doesn't ask other tigers how to be a tiger. If it has to, it's not a tiger to begin with. It behaves and acts like what it is, and learns from other tigers' actions.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#285352 - 11/23/07 05:10 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Phineas]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Here's another curious idea ... why would anyone waste their precious and limited time responding to a question to which they don't care to respond?

Waste (your time to post), multiplying upon implied waste (my time in asking)?

I'm not asking that any tell me how to live, or what to believe, merely positing what is to me an interesting question.

If it is not an interesting question to a true tiger in some regard, I would think the tiger would simply ignore it.

*shrug*
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285354 - 11/23/07 05:18 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Before you go, let me just remind you that you said "Any time spent upon responses is welcomed and appreciated in advance".

Is it not appreciated if you do not get the answer you had hoped for?

"Why ask why?"

"The Satanic Bible advises to "question all things"- but it helps to be able to think first."
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#285355 - 11/23/07 05:18 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
Careful now. Tweaking a tiger's tail can be detrimental to your health.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#285358 - 11/23/07 05:24 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Lust]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
I'm not going anywhere that I'm aware of ...

If the answer given is merely a comment on the motivations of one asking a question, rather than in any sense addressing the question itself, why not in turn ask the motivation for either side-stepping the topic or implying that the questioner isn't Satanic "enough"?

I would think that in a forum of honorable discussion, responses would be in the form of statements, rather than coy and oblique references to one's own subjective suppositions of another poster.

But, ultimately the question would remain, why ask why?
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285359 - 11/23/07 05:26 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Phineas]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Only if one can't outrun or kill the tiger ... sometimes, it's amusing. ;\)
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285363 - 11/23/07 05:44 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
Are you having problems defining reality?

I think therefore i am, and because i am a Satanist i can also change my reality whenever it suits me so "reality" is subjective to the individual.

I am quite uneasy with the words "philosophical metaphysics" and "Satanic thought" being so close together in your post, Satanists are indeed born and not made and i needed no self-education to know that i thought like a Satanist from day one, perhaps here is your problem.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#285365 - 11/23/07 05:48 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
Whats more amusing is watching a masochist in action.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#285368 - 11/23/07 06:11 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: shadowraven213]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
I fear that untoward assumptions are being made.

No, I have no trouble defining reality for myself. Again, I'm not asking anyone here to tell me "what it is" but rather "what they think."

The description of this forum is "Discussions & Questions related to the Satanic Philosophy as set forth by Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan." (Colored emphasis, of course, mine.)

I don't think I misread that; has anyone else?

Let me define my use of metaphysics here, perhaps that is the problem. I'll use something generic as a citation of reference:

"Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that investigates principles of reality transcending those of any particular science, traditionally, cosmology and ontology. It is also concerned with explaining the ultimate nature of being and the world.[1] Its name derives from the Greek words μετά (metá) (meaning "after") and φυσικά (physiká meaning "physics"), "physics" referring to those works on matter by Aristotle in antiquity. The prefix meta- ("after") simply meant the chapters in the Aristotle's work that physically followed after the chapter "physics". Aristotle called them "first philosophy" ... Etc. etc.

That's the first few lines from Wikipedia "Metaphysics"

In short, as used, the term denotes a branch of philosophy, not the mundane "hoochy-coochy" that occasionally masquerades under that name.

shadowraven213, we are all different. Again, my post is not asking anyone to tell me how to think, what to believe, etc. etc. If your process is not like mine, I appreciate the information.

I posed the question to Satanists, and honestly, (and suprisingly, I admit) some of you quite simply seem so intimidated by the matter that you are seeking to defract from the essence of my questions, and/or perform what you must imagine to be "toying" with a mouse ... perhaps dropping some of your errant pre-suppositions about what I am saying would be in order.

Or damn, if you're grumpy, go take a nap.

But, bleeding-jesus-on-a-cross, let the foolishness end.

If its a pointless question in terms of your Own experience as a Satanist (again, unique for each of us an individual experience) then just say so ... and that answer I can appreciate fully.

If you think that no "true" Satanist would ever bother with such considerations, just say so, and I even can appreciate that.

Unfortunately, coy ad hominem just acts as a lightning rod, and now to my chagrin I am participating in a metadiscussion and talking more about how and why we ask questions, and the questioners and respondents, rather than the topic as posed.

I have to say, so far, the discussion has tended more toward what I would expect asking the question in a Baptist sunday-school room. "You just know." Puleeze.

This implied thread of "is you or is you not right with Satan, boy" BS is not much more than that, is it?

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#285370 - 11/23/07 06:17 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: shadowraven213]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Humor is where one finds it, isn't it? I find it, at times in watching the supercilious posting of pointless snippets.

Ha. Mea culpa. *whack*
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285373 - 11/23/07 06:35 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
 Originally Posted By: Gryphon66
I posed the question to Satanists, and honestly, (and suprisingly, I admit) some of you quite simply seem so intimidated by the matter that you are seeking to defract from the essence of my questions


I answered your question totally and concisely, and you have ceased to amuse me by totally missing the point of my post (something i wasn't surprised to see), did i intimidate you with logic and sense? too bad, back to reading about reality instead of actually defining it by your own presence within it!.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#285374 - 11/23/07 06:41 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: shadowraven213]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
*yawn* I'm put in mind of that line from Hamlet "The Lady doth protest too much ..." Thanks for playing shadowraven213.

Now, again, through the clutter:

What in your experience as Satanists is your philosophic basis of reality? Materialism? Empiricism? What forms the bedrock “givens” in understanding your personal cosmology as a Satanist?



Edited by Gryphon66 (11/23/07 06:48 PM)
Edit Reason: Forgot the elipsis, silly me.

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#285377 - 11/23/07 06:55 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
That which annoys me makes me more cranky.


Existential ignorism.
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#285379 - 11/23/07 07:05 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Ygraine]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Are you saying, Magistra, that such questions in themselves annoy you? If so, may I ask why? Are they pointless? Have you found your answers long ago, but simply have no interest in sharing them in a discussion? Do these questions not occur to you?

Also, I am familiar with the term "existential" but I cannot seem to find "ignorism" in any dictionary, though I must confess, it has certain poetic innovation. Could you point to an accepted definition? (Note that I'm not just trying to be a bitch here; I find the term used in many places, and I'm amazed that it's not defined. Useful term-- I just wonder where it comes from.)


Edited by Gryphon66 (11/23/07 07:12 PM)
Edit Reason: 'cause.
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285388 - 11/23/07 08:53 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
I'll just be honest about it- your style of writing reeks of pretentiousness- hence the negative responses.

Satanists have a common tendency to highly appreciate the "no-bullshit" approach to things.
Not being able to communicate ideas in a simple fashion does not make you look sophisticated.
On the contrary, it takes a true genius to simplify the complex, rather than complicate the simple.

Your point, from what I gathered, is asking what is the subjectively objective reality of each Satanist on board… ?
Did I get that about right?

Most Satanists are not concerned with the objective nature of reality, because we are modest enough to realize we cannot perceive it, so we simply adopt the subjectivity that works best for us.
Do what works for you as an individual; what you naturally feel must be done for your own good.
If you want to intellectually-masturbate about "objective reality"- if that what turns you on- go ahead and do it.
As long as it serves your selfish interests well...
_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#285389 - 11/23/07 09:02 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8269
To all who view this thread I call your attention upon Magister Nemo's post from another thread, where he uncovers a bait.

This post is also baited, but in a different manner.

How do we know? One clue is the open ended question, implying there are no right answers. Another is the appearance of inviting and appreciating all answers.

Do not be fooled.

The answers are not relevant to the poster. All that matters is the process of arguing for the sake of arguing. No matter what anyone else replies, it is deemed wrong.

There is a reason for this. The poster wears a badge that is called "Pseudo Intellectualism".

One can readily recognize these ones. In person, they talk incessantly. They just love listening to themselves talk. On a message board, they take three paragraphs to say what could be said in one sentence. And usually with fastidious verbosity.

You see, what matters to them is not the answer to their question, but to brag and show off their vocabulary and attempt to demonstrate how superior they are. All those words and twists and turns usually amount to a big hill of nothingness.

In person, they wear a smirk every time they make what they are convinced is a clever quip. In writing, they carefully choose words that veil an insult.

One may deal with their kind by ignoring them. Or, if you are in a playful mood, you may BAIT THEM instead. The manner in which they respond will let you know who you are dealing with.

Thank you for your time!

_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#285391 - 11/23/07 09:09 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: The_Lightning]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
A simple answer; thanks for your time.
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285392 - 11/23/07 09:13 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Phineas]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Funny, before I came to this board, I had never heard that kind of behaviour described as Phineas described it, let alone labelled.

Not only have I known people like that in the past, but I know them in the present. I just kind of dealt with them before, always thinking they were irritating, but not willing to say it, or act on it. My relatively new found sense of empowerment has allowed me to avoid them at all costs; I am much happier for it, and they are slowly running out of people to talk to.

Out of this entire thread, I really enjoyed that last post the most. It taught me something new, thank you Phineas.

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#285393 - 11/23/07 09:25 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
 Originally Posted By: Gryphon66
Note that I'm not just trying to be a bitch here


Just when i thought you couldn't amuse me further, you certainly surprised me this time!.

I think you need to spend some more time on your posts, your spelling isn't perfect and your vocabulary seems a little limited, try harder please.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#285396 - 11/23/07 09:36 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Phineas]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Magister, actually, I just write the way I write. I happen to enjoy words and language. If you, and Lightning, and others find my language pretentious and wordy, then so be it. You find it that way; makes no real difference to me. There's no ulterior motive, aside from what I had thought could be somewhat pleasant conversation on a holiday afternoon. That seems to have been a mistake on my part, at least in this context.

Your recommendation at the outset of the thread had merit. Live the life. Learn by doing. Produce something on your own, and then you won't have to ask for it. Pertinent if I had asked how to live my life, which, is nowhere to be found in what I wrote.

However, you left that behind and merely wandered into literary critique. You haven't made any point except to express your own opinion, not of the question, or what I said about the question, but simply of me. You don't like the way I write or express myself, fine, but damn, why make a capital case of it? Why not just mutter "dumbass" and move on? Again, why waste the time?

Inflating your response (and still, you make no response to the original question and intended topic of the post, which doesn't per se have any universal "right" answers as you indicate, but was merely intended for discussion of topic(s) that might be interesting to some and not others, but hey that's philosophy.) into an "object lesson" for others on the board ... just denotes intellectual dishonesty, pure and simple.

I'm a wordy bastard, yes, and I know it, but you; you're quite simply bloated on your sense of yourself, regardless of position. I don't think you recognize that, and I don't think you ever will.
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285399 - 11/23/07 09:44 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
 Originally Posted By: Gryphon66
A simple answer; thanks for your time.


If that's the kind of answer you were looking for, it makes one wonder if you've really looked into Satanism.
What I've said is very obvious for anyone who read LaVey's works..
So what you've succeeded on doing is asking a question with a very obvious answer, in a manner which you thought might disguise the ignorance behind it (but obviously didn't).

People who beg to be spoon-fed are not welcomed here, naturally, because they tend to waste people's time.

Bottom line:
Magister Phineas is spot-on.
_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#285400 - 11/23/07 09:45 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
You ARE the question. You asked the question, and your writing represents who you are, and what you think.

You then went on to respond to a few individuals critque of the question with veiled insults, and petty assumptions.

You failed to answer questions from some, and mocked them ouright (Does the *yawn* thing ring a bell?)

Phineas very rationally pointed out the underlying theme of your post, and you went on to call him pompous (Or, implied it at least)

You then complain how this post became overblown, when you yourself contributed to that many times.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but it just doesn't seem to add up.

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#285402 - 11/23/07 09:50 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
On Black Friday, shovels are half-price for hypocrites.

Stratification in motion is a beautiful thing to behold.

\:>


Edited by Poetaster (11/23/07 09:56 PM)
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#285403 - 11/23/07 09:51 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: TheDegenerate]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Anyways, as puzzling as this thread is (As in, why it exists to begin with) I think I will take Phineas' advice and ignore this completely. I may be inadvertently feeding the fire, so I digress, and apologize in advance if the user replies with seven or eight more paragraphs about LttD user failures/inadequacies, using my name in place of Phineas, or The Lightning, or Ygraine, etc, etc, etc.

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#285405 - 11/23/07 09:56 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: TheDegenerate]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
You're all absolutely right. Can't put a thing past you.

Enjoy the club.

FINIS
_________________________
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another, nor ask another to live for mine. (paraphrase of Ayn Rand)

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#285407 - 11/23/07 10:04 PM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
 Originally Posted By: Gryphon66
I am quite simply bloated on my sense of Importance, regardless of anyone else. I don't think i recognize that, and I don't think i ever will no matter how many times i am told.


Fixed it for you dear Gryphon66.

\:\/
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#285418 - 11/23/07 11:35 PM No one cares. [Re: Gryphon66]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Your assumption is that the "bedrock" of a philosophy must be its metaphysics.

I discussed this assumption also made by Ayn Rand here.

Satanism revolves around its ethics - not its metaphysics nor even its epistemology.

This is a pragmatic religious philosophy - not an ivory tower armchair discussion group.

This is an engineering religion focused on what is useful rather than what is "truth".

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#285425 - 11/24/07 12:02 AM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
 Originally Posted By: Gryphon66
“Nothing unreal exists.”

To avoid any hint of plagiarism, not to mention to conveniently segue to an underlying point of this post, please note that this line (and the title of the post) could refer either (and I beg pardon in advance for this) a partial quote from the first lines of “A Course in Miracles” which is not necessarily distasteful and is even quite humorous if considered for the work of fiction that it is … or from “Kiri-Kin-Tha’s First Law of Metaphysics” (a fictional work cited within a fictional work (movie), Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.)

*snip*

Which came first, then, one might wonder … one might, but the exploration of that question is not necessarily the point of my post.

That is what it is not, this is what it is: What in your experience as Satanists is your philosophic basis of reality? Materialism? Empiricism? What forms the bedrock “givens” in understanding your personal cosmology as a Satanist?


Any time spent upon responses is welcomed and appreciated in advance.


After reading this I can only conclude that you spend too much time inside your head. And slightly to the left.

Poetry has it's place, and as far as your looping manner of questioning left me wanting to untangle your writing so you could simply get to your point without the extra lines of text jumbling up what you had written.

Save the MENSA overlinguistics for some other forum. It's not going to impress anyone here. Unless it happens to actually be a poem about something deserving poetic language.

I'll say this. Materialist objectivism is dead. Doubt me? Go read some recent books on quantum mechanics and entanglement theory and you'll find that all that unravels rather quickly. There are many who are all too eager to take some popular version of atheistic materialism, slap a Baphomet and some horns on it and call it Satanism.

While that is all well and good for those that can make use of it, it does NOT represent Satanism or "real" reality for that matter.

Satanism is simply about what is useful and what is useless.

Discard what is useless, utilise what is useful. Set goals and attain them. Should you fail, re-plan, and/or find more useful tools to get where you want to be.

If materialism gets you where you want to be. Good. But there is no need to call yourself a Satanist, because Satanism entails an acceptance of MORE than just the colored lights that impact the little lumps of goo and meat you call eyes.

"How many times do I have to tell you?! Use the right tool for the right job!" ~ Han Solo.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#285428 - 11/24/07 12:29 AM Pseudo-Intellectuals [Re: Phineas]
G.F.V. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 1951
Loc: NYC
 Quote:

You see, what matters to them is not the answer to their question, but to brag and show off their vocabulary and attempt to demonstrate how superior they are. All those words and twists and turns usually amount to a big hill of nothingness.


I come across Pseudo-Intellectuals in real life all the time. Not only are they annoying, but are also entertaining.

For example, I love when someone tries to impress others with their $6,000,000 vocabulary words and uses the wrong word. I usually wind up giggling out loud, and eventually repeating the mistake to myself over and over to laugh even harder. It makes for some great stories during my family dinners.

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#285431 - 11/24/07 12:58 AM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
 Quote:
What in your experience as Satanists is your philosophic basis of reality? Materialism? Empiricism? What forms the bedrock “givens” in understanding your personal cosmology as a Satanist?

I was talking with my sister-in-law this evening about fried plantains. She's Cuban so I thought she might have been exposed to them and didn't assume she actually liked them but it's a cultural thing right? I could have said something like, "Golly, fried plantains really are swell," to try to get a response from her in a feeble attempt at indirect communication. I thought it might be nice to see if she had this food in common with me and maybe even get a few pointers on preparation, if she new how, so I started out by telling her what interested me-- a conversational gambit.

We talked briefly about how they make great desert and I got to mention that there's a fast food joint near where I live that has them on their menu board. It was nice for me to be able to relate to her with similar tastes for a food. I didn't once say to her, "As an American of Cuban Decent, what is our opinion on fried plantains?" Then, we had some scones and coffee. It was a nice visit and I got to tell her about the W. H. Hudson first edition book that I just found (she likes books too).

Oh, before I forget... why does it mater what my basis for reality is? Are you shopping around for one of your own?
_________________________




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#285432 - 11/24/07 12:58 AM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
Matthew_Whitby Offline
Banned

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 150
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
Any time spent upon responses is welcomed and appreciated in advance.


Clearly, it's not. The vipers have responded, stated their opinion in relation to your article, and now you're complaining because you got bitten.

You seem to have great difficulty comprehending and understanding reality.

 Quote:
Now, since ACIM was originally published ten years before Star Trek IV was made, one has to wonder, did the writers knowingly swipe the partial line, were they paying some sort of backhanded homage, were they honestly repeating what they thought was an original thought?


And? If they were, congratulations to them. They've managed to fool and manipulate, and get the copyright to an article they never had the rights to.

Have you ever thought that the saying may have just coincidently been the same, if not similar?

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#285434 - 11/24/07 01:10 AM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: Gryphon66]
TheNaturalForce Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 511
Loc: The Vibrant Garden
 Quote:
What in your experience as Satanists is your philosophic basis of reality?


I am inseparable from nature. Acquiring anything that contributes to my comfort is my first concern, be it material or symbolic wealth.

I experience "Survival Of The Fittest" and "Might Is Right" on a near constant basis while interacting with others, or just watching. Satanism has pulled me from the midst of it all and allowed me to see it from a distance. This is the basis of my reality. Knowing what is happening while it is happening, while others do not.

 Quote:
What forms the bedrock “givens” in understanding your personal cosmology as a Satanist?


I am an animal. I am never satisfied. I stop at nothing, short of illegal actions, to obtain what I want. I do my best to know what the reach of my powers are and learn to strengthen them.


EDIT: Well, I responded before reading the replies, so I guess I missed the bait boat. I enjoyed responding nonetheless.


Edited by HoundDog (11/24/07 01:25 AM)
Edit Reason: didn't see the black hole
_________________________
SNAP!

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#285453 - 11/24/07 05:27 AM Re: "Nothing Unreal Exists" [Re: TheNaturalForce]
Gryphon66 Offline


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Georgia, USA
Abating my "FINIS" briefly:

1. Thanks to those who critiqued my writing style. Gaining objectivity regarding one's own expression is valuable if not always necessarily pleasant.

2. Thanks to those who demonstrated the LTTD cultural gestalt so immediately and completely.

3. Thanks to those who spent time out of your life to post your answers to the questions as posed, meaningless or not.

I always found a strict materialist/empiricist view of existence distinctly as unsatisfying and incomplete as the entirely belief-based bovine systems of any category. There may well be "more in heaven an earth than is dreampt of" and entertaining those thoughts can be interesting at times (though not among you, sheesh), but day-to-day existence and achivement is always more abrupt and must be responded to just as abruptly for maximum profitability.

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