Page 2 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#292229 - 12/21/07 12:18 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Leske Offline


Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 48
Loc: Iraq - Usually Kansas City
The worst part about this entire situation is the continued inability for people to take responsibility for their own actions. Even if you did attempt to take responsibility, people would always look for a reason why.

Granted, the headline did its job in grabbing peoples attention. It's unfortunate that most people won't read past the headline, let alone critically examine the story.
_________________________
"Six seconds left until your eyes turn green and you begin to question everything you've ever seen."

Top
#292235 - 12/21/07 01:10 AM What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Storm]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3968
Loc: The Deep South
When I was 17 years old I worked in a factory taking care of industrial machines big enough for me to crawl inside to check the oil level.

I know in America young people are not as mature as in other places... but I'm sure at 16 a person’s level of reasoning is almost the same as an adult. Maybe not as experienced, but definitely old enough to understand something as elemental as the difference between playing a game and hurting a living person.

I could understand a 5 year old kid who doesn't know the difference between reality and fiction would mimic dangerous stunts he sees on TV or games.

But 16-17 year olds?

These two had to be completely retarded not to realize hitting and kicking a younger child is not right. Maybe the game was the inspiration... but the real source of his tragedy is two teenagers with the I.Q. of a lobotomized baboon and probably their equally brainless parents.
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


Top
#292236 - 12/21/07 01:17 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Boman Offline


Registered: 12/17/07
Posts: 8
I don't think watching violent videos or playing video games such as Mortal Kombat are soley responsible for the actions of people doing nutty things like killing siblings.

But i do think it has a certain infulence such as in this case.
I remember one case some years ago of a shool shooter in the US who took out fellow students in a hallway with a pistol.
His aiming and hits were incrediable, almost 95% head shots at moving targets.
This was atributed to the fact he played a shoot 'em up game for hours a day thus improving his skill of aiming at moving targets.
The end result was instead of going hunting in the forest he went hunting at school.

Top
#292260 - 12/21/07 06:17 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Grima Offline


Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Netherlands
It's always easier for the masses to lay the blame on something that's clearly visible to them. It makes them feel safer; knowing that it were those evil, hidious video-games that did it and not two retards who are wasting precious oxygen.

Top
#292308 - 12/21/07 11:45 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Poetaster]
RottenBonnie Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 546
Loc: The West Coast, USA
 Originally Posted By: Poetaster
Some kids are just fucked up, with or without proper parenting.


True, some people are fucked up, with or whithout proper parenting. That being said, though, these murderers were still technically children themselves. They didn't even reach the age of 18 before committing murder. Therein lies my 25% parental blame equation.

 Originally Posted By: Poetaster
We certainly don't know enough about this story to automatically assume that the parents are worthless scum who bred a shit for brains teenager. Responsibility to the fucking responsible, not blame placed on the absent.

The buck has to stop with the individual at some point.


This is also true, but when a teenager beats a little kid to death you have to see that as a parental failure. It isn't blaming the parents for the murder itself to say that obviously they failed to raise a productive member of society.

There isn't a magic cut-off age where the parent no longer has influence over their child, but 16 and 17 isn't even close. Again, when a person doesn't even reach adulthood without murder on their record that is a parental failure somehow, somewhere. Big time.
_________________________
"The smartest, most passionate, most beautiful women I've met have been Satanists. I don't mean "beautiful on the inside where it really counts;" I mean gorgeous, vibrant, curvy women." Blanche Barton

"There's no such thing as too many books." Poetaster

Top
#292315 - 12/21/07 12:02 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: RottenBonnie]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Video games may help to "inspire" ideas for these acts of violence, but I doubt they do much to instigate them. If it wasn't kids using a sawed off shot gun they saw in Doom, then it could have been the sawed off shotgun from Evil Dead.

It is hard for us to say at this point what the truth is on this issue, because there has been no real objective scientific study done on the matter. Most of what we "know" about video game related murder is conjecture and hearsay at this point.

As Bonnie pointed out, the parents, at least until that child turns eighteen, should be held more accountable then they are for these incidents occuring. If that is not acceptable, then the "legal age" concerning the law should be lowered.

I do not think kids get enough credit so to speak, and that many of them are underestimated. I am as "smart" now as I was when I was thirteen, if not a lot wiser. I can tell you though, I sure knew better then to beat up a four year old, or take a damn gun to school.

I personally believe, and always believe that the age and other factors should not have an effect on sentencing. A crime is a crime, whether it be committed by a ten year old, or a fourty year old. I think a parent should share this punishment if the suspect is of a very young age.

It is a convoluted topic, but individuals like Jack Thompson who are trying to prevent, it seems, even adults from indulging in adult content, are not helping the problem any. In the future, if the crackdown gets any harder, and as we see the ratings slip from M to AO, who knows; maybe someday these games will be sold in "Adult Game Stores" with any kind of content allowed?

Top
#292317 - 12/21/07 12:05 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: TheDegenerate]
Auge Offline


Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Germany
Viseo Games and real life violence are a big issue here in Germany, too. There has been a number of scientific studies concerning the connection of the two, yet no scientific proof has yet been found that such a connection exists.

Of course, this doesn't keep people from claiming the contrary.
_________________________
Alle Wesen bisher schufen etwas über sich hinaus: und ihr wollt die Ebbe dieser großen Flut sein und lieber noch zum Tiere zurückgehn, als den Menschen überwinden?
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Top
#292323 - 12/21/07 12:13 PM Re: What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Old_Pig]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3968
Loc: The Deep South
20th Century: The Devil made me do it!

21th Century: Video Games made me do it!

The more things change, the more they remain the same...
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


Top
#292373 - 12/21/07 05:58 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: RottenBonnie]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2333
Loc: East Coast, USA.
 Quote:
That being said, though, these murderers were still technically children themselves. They didn't even reach the age of 18 before committing murder. Therein lies my 25% parental blame equation.


They were old enough to know better.

An idiot is an idiot, with or without great parenting. I place responsibility where it is supposed to be, not on a scapegoat. I don't know that the parents of these wretched pukes did a bad job raising their children. For all I know, they could have had every opportunity to succeed placed on a silver platter for them, and simply pissed it away as a lot of kids do. Hell, for all we really know, these two assholes could have murdered on purpose and just be plain ol' nuts. I'll let the people that are paid to sort it out, sort it out.

Parents can't be expected to bare the brunt of every stupid decision that their teenagers make; 16 and 17, hardly children. If we start allowing that people aren't accountable for their actions until they reach an arbitrary number, then we just as well toss the idea of responsibility right out of the fucking window. I certainly agree that young children need guidance, but 16 and 17? They didn't know that body-slamming a small child is a bad idea? Give me a break.

When an eight year old starts selling drugs on the street, stealing cars and committing drive-by shootings, then we can probably assume that the parents aren't doing something right. But people seem to forget that children are naturally rebellious and are going to push boundaries, unfortunately some just push too far. It isn't a parents job to walk hand-in-hand with their children every second of the day, that's just logistically impossible and quite ludicrous. Teach them morals, love them and care for them, do your best to keep them safe and strive to provide opportunities for success. But what else can a parent really do? No matter what, some kids are going to be bad apples and it's a real shame that society is so quick to crucify the parents.

 Quote:
but when a teenager beats a little kid to death you have to see that as a parental failure.


I don't have to see that as a parental failure, it could be, but it doesn't follow that it absolutely is. I don't buy it. Maybe I'm giving teenagers too much credit, but I think at some point an understanding of ethical right and wrong, as well as criminal and lawful behavior, has surely sunk in for those that are going to fly by those rules, and went right over the head of those that aren't.

Besides, some people are just really, really stupid, and age has no bearing on that.

Personally, I come from a broken home, but I turned out alright and I've never blamed my parents for any mistakes that I've made. Of course, I was never dumb enough to do anything criminal in the first place. On second thought, I think I stole a pack of gum when I was nine, but my mother had already taught me that stealing was wrong and illegal. Should she be hung out to dry because I was a little shit head? She did her job, and she went further in her job description by disciplining me once she found out, but I did it anyway because that's what kids do.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





Top
#292384 - 12/21/07 07:06 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I have yet to read through the other posts, but this reminds me of when Judas Priest was on trial.

"String em up!"
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

Top
#292460 - 12/22/07 03:19 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Poetaster]
RottenBonnie Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 546
Loc: The West Coast, USA
I don't think the parents were responsible for the murder per se. You're right; they weren't present and they didn't commit the acts that led to the death of a child. However, there is no doubt in my mind that they are culpable.

When you bring a child into the world your job is to produce a well adjusted, productive member of society. Sometimes that doesn't happen due to circumstances beyond anyone's control. This was not one of those circumstances. These kids made horrible, life altering decisions. Because of those decisions their parents will not be introducing well adjusted, productive adults into society; their kids will be in prison for murder instead. That is parental failure.

Certainly if my 17 year old son were to kill his 6 year old brother I would feel responsible; I would have to. In fact, it would be irresponsible of me to just shrug and say, "Well some kids are bad apples, what can you do? I did my best." No, I didn't do my best, obviously. I failed as a parent. FAILED. I can't say how these people failed, but they definitely failed.

Your mom didn't fail; she did her job and you, other than being a conservative Republican , seem pretty well adjusted and productive.

Believe me, I'm not out to crucify parents for the actions of their kids; I'd be setting myself up to be crucified! But the amount of bad parenting in the world astounds me. It is horrible to see the complete abdication of parental responsibility that is absolutely rampant in the world today. I take my job as a parent very seriously. I see it as my responsibility to my children, and to myself, to raise my kids up to be the best that they can be. And if they made a decision that sent them to prison before they turned 18 I would consider it a personal failure. Did these parents take the same amount of responsibility for raising their child? I strongly doubt it.
_________________________
"The smartest, most passionate, most beautiful women I've met have been Satanists. I don't mean "beautiful on the inside where it really counts;" I mean gorgeous, vibrant, curvy women." Blanche Barton

"There's no such thing as too many books." Poetaster

Top
#292483 - 12/22/07 08:43 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
I totally and unrestrictedly lay the blame squarely at Jack Thomson. Purely because he stuck this crap into the collective consciousness and does his best to keep it there (causing a lot of pain in the process), how christian of him.

Well actually no I don't but it would be nice if he did get the blame once in his life, it would be a nice change.

I agree very much with what Rottenbonnie wrote, kids have minds of their own but they are shaped by their parents.

Ask a child under 10 if killing someone else is wrong, they will tell you it is if their parents have done their job properly.

Just another case of idiot children have idiot parents so they do something idiotic and someone dies.

Tragic.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

Top
#292492 - 12/22/07 09:45 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: RottenBonnie]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2333
Loc: East Coast, USA.
 Quote:
However, there is no doubt in my mind that they are culpable.


There's the rub, because you don't know enough about this story to place that kind of weight on these parents. It is quite possible that the parents are great parents, and they unfortunately have stupid "children". It's this kind of nonsense that perpetuates the 'rough childhood' legal defense, and that's just bunk. It's a convenient excuse that completely negates the idea of responsibility.

 Quote:
This was not one of those circumstances.


How do you know that?

This story reads like a classic case of two teenagers finding an opportunity to throw a few back while mommy and daddy aren't around to bust their ass. They got drunk, did something stupid, just like a lot of kids do while sneaking around behind their parents backs to get wasted, and now they deserve the full repercussions of their actions.

If this were a story about a prepubescent child picking up a gun and blowing someone away because he saw it in a film and thought it was cool, then I would be willing to concede that the parents were irresponsible, but it wasn't. Instead you have two retards making a stupid decision, and now people are going to start questioning if they have good parents. Bullshit, let them rot in prison where they belong.

We will likely need to agree to disagree.





Edited by Poetaster (12/22/07 09:50 AM)
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





Top
#292513 - 12/22/07 11:44 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Poetaster]
RottenBonnie Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 546
Loc: The West Coast, USA
 Originally Posted By: Poetaster
It's this kind of nonsense that perpetuates the 'rough childhood' legal defense, and that's just bunk. It's a convenient excuse that completely negates the idea of responsibility.


You seem to think that I feel they shouldn't pay the price for what they did. That is not the case. They need to go to prison forever as they are obviously unable to function in society. They deserve nothing less than the full force of the law coming down upon their heads. I don't allow that their potential "rough childhood" is an excuse at all. There is no excuse. These two took someone's life and now they must pay the consequences.

I don't think that the parent's should be punished by the law because they did not commit the crime. However, they are legally responsible for their children until they reach the age of adulthood. That is the law and therefore they are culpable. Whether they were "good parents," or not, is now irrelevant. A child is dead and, the parents of all children involved now have to live with what happened and that is punishment enough.

 Originally Posted By: poetaster
This story reads like a classic case of two teenagers finding an opportunity to throw a few back while mommy and daddy aren't around to bust their ass. They got drunk, did something stupid, just like a lot of kids do while sneaking around behind their parents backs to get wasted, and now they deserve the full repercussions of their actions.


I don't read it that way and this is where we will have to agree to disagree. Usually a juvenile will not just commit murder out of the blue. One day a perfectly normal kid, the next day 7 year old beaten to death. No, this wasn't just "something stupid" that the kids did while they were drunk. In fact, if it were "merely an accident" they would deserve LESS reprecussions for their actions. However, repeatedly hitting someone much smaller than oneself shows a tendency for violence that doesn't just manifest itself one day out of the blue.

There are risk factors involved with juveniles that commit serious offenses. Here is a great website that talks about those risk factors here and one of them is "family problems...including a lack of parental control over the child."

Again, my bleeding liberal heart in no way advocates that they shouldn't be prosecuted for their actions. They should be. They have to be. My contention is that given the risk factors these children were likely showing why were they responsible for the safety and well-being of a seven year old? That was some adult's decision. A very stupid adult.

 Originally Posted By: poetaster
Instead you have two retards making a stupid decision, and now people are going to start questioning if they have good parents. Bullshit, let them rot in prison where they belong.


Yes, let them rot in prison. And let their parents live with the fact that they made some serious mistakes.



Edited by RottenBonnie (12/22/07 12:19 PM)
Edit Reason: I figured out how to add that cool url "here" thing.
_________________________
"The smartest, most passionate, most beautiful women I've met have been Satanists. I don't mean "beautiful on the inside where it really counts;" I mean gorgeous, vibrant, curvy women." Blanche Barton

"There's no such thing as too many books." Poetaster

Top
#292533 - 12/22/07 01:25 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
In this story, and others like it, what is usually missing? A Father! Parenting is pluralistic, and with few exceptions, the traditional rolls serve the child best.

Clearly, at 16 and 17, you should be held accountable for murder. Their parents do not deserve a free pass at all.

The only victim in this story, never will see her 8th birthday.

Top
Page 2 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >


Forum Stats
12019 Members
73 Forums
43828 Topics
405224 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements