Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#292119 - 12/20/07 01:40 PM Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play
Storm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/30/07
Posts: 567
Loc: West Valley, UT, USA
I can't say I was necessarily surprised to read this. Leave it to the sheeple to prove that movies, television, and video games actually can influence their "real lives".
_______________________________

Associated Press *Source

Teens Charged in 'Mortal Kombat' Death
14 hours ago

JOHNSTOWN, Colo. (AP) — Two teens have been charged with killing the 7-year-old sister of one of them by beating her with imitations of moves from the "Mortal Kombat" video game, prosecutors said.

Lamar Roberts, 17, and Heather Trujillo, 16, were charged as adults on one count each of felony child abuse causing death, state prosecutor Robert Miller said in court documents released Wednesday and filed a day earlier.

According to a police affidavit, the teens were baby-sitting Trujillo's half-sister, Zoe Garcia, on Dec. 6 while the girl's mother was at work. Zoe lost consciousness and stopped breathing after the teens hit, kicked and body-slammed her, imitating moves used in the video game, the document said.

Trujillo and Roberts tried reviving the girl by putting her under running water and attempting CPR before they called her mother and 911, the affidavits stated. The girl died at a hospital.

An autopsy showed she had a broken wrist, more than 20 bruises, swelling of the brain, and bleeding in her neck muscles and under her spine, the affidavits said.

There were no listed phone numbers in the Weld County directory for either Roberts' mother, Linda Clark, or Trujillo's, Dana Trujillo. Sheriff's spokeswoman Margie Martinez said late Wednesday that she did not know whether either teen had an attorney. The teens were being held at the Weld County jail but were not permitted to accept phone calls, Martinez said.

Roberts said he was downstairs playing video games while the sisters wrestled upstairs, police said. But a witness quoted in the affidavit said Roberts told her he had kicked the girl.

The witness told police that Roberts said Zoe had told them to stop wrestling. According to the affidavit, when the witness asked why they didn't stop, he responded, "I don't know; I was drunk."

If convicted, the teens could be sentenced to 48 years in prison.
_________________________
"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters."
~Francisco Goya

"When Hell is Full of Souls, The Tattooed Will Walk the Earth."
~Bob Tyrrell, The Night Gallery Tattoo

Facebook: facebook.com/artonyoustudios

Top
#292123 - 12/20/07 01:58 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Video games have nothing to do with it.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9710

These kids were pricks with or without the games.
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

Top
#292124 - 12/20/07 02:01 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
JustinR Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 1509
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
It's been awhile since I've heard "Mortal Kombat" used as a scapegoat. Seems like the "Grand Theft Auto" games have received most of the recent blame over the past few years.
_________________________
"If you're going to be a sinner, be the best sinner on the block." - Anton Szandor LaVey

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George S. Patton

JustinR on The Undercroft


Top
#292127 - 12/20/07 02:10 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: JustinR]
VitalMcCorkle Offline


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 15
 Quote:
hit, kicked and body-slammed


Sounds like some old fashioned wrastlin' to me!

 Quote:
Lamar, Trujillo, Garcia


Parents gone, no listed phone number, babysitter drunk... sounds more like a cultural, and thus environmental, issue to me. It would be politically incorrect to approach as such, so let's blame it on a game.

Misdirection of blame. Blame in general. The bane of our society.

Top
#292142 - 12/20/07 03:52 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Valek Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 1022
Loc: Non-local
Regardless of the "reason", there is no excuse for that sort of behavior. I hope they serve every one of those 48 years.
_________________________
Gravity seems weak until you look down.

Top
#292153 - 12/20/07 04:20 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Danny Mc. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2143
Loc: Taxationland
My take. Most people on this world is insane(99.9%). Just protect your own mental health, kick back and enjoy the show( use the crazy fuckers for your own gain)!
_________________________
"To be born into this world a sentient, self-conscious and reasoning being, surrounded by inexhaustible glories in Nature, which we may comprehend, possess,enjoy; to be able to rise on the wings of a lofty imagination; to be able to get glimpses of the ideally perfect; to apprehend the Divine; it is to the development and enjoyment of these high powers that the young man is invited. How dare he refuse to qualify himself by the most perfect training of all his powers." Lyman J. Gage 1910


"Follow Me!", John M. (Delta).

"I've learned that you shouldn't compare yourself to others - they are more screwed up than you think." Something Magistra Isabel posted. laugh

Top
#292159 - 12/20/07 04:30 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: JustinR]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Yeah, when I first heard this, I checked the date to make sure I hadn't time-traveled back to the 90s.

It strikes me that this is quite similar to when that kid claimed he killed his sister (?) using a wrestling move. Kids tend to be surprisingly shrewd when it comes to trying to avoid responsibility, and adults all-too-often play into their hands.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#292165 - 12/20/07 05:52 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: TrojZyr]
VitalMcCorkle Offline


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 15
 Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
Kids tend to be surprisingly shrewd when it comes to trying to avoid responsibility, and adults all-too-often play into their hands.


Very well put. I agree with this statement.

Top
#292176 - 12/20/07 06:40 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Valek]
RottenBonnie Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 546
Loc: The West Coast, USA
 Originally Posted By: Valek
Regardless of the "reason", there is no excuse for that sort of behavior. I hope they serve every one of those 48 years.


I second that. This was socially unacceptable behavior at its finest. Now, excuse me. I must go upstairs and tell my 17 year old son not to beat his younger brothers to death; he is an avid video game player. Oh, and not to be drunk while babysitting. Bad move. Sounds like bad parenting (of the teenagers and the child that was killed) might be at the root of this problem.

Bonnie
_________________________
"The smartest, most passionate, most beautiful women I've met have been Satanists. I don't mean "beautiful on the inside where it really counts;" I mean gorgeous, vibrant, curvy women." Blanche Barton

"There's no such thing as too many books." Poetaster

Top
#292177 - 12/20/07 06:42 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: VitalMcCorkle]
TheNaturalForce Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 511
Loc: The Vibrant Garden




The finger is mine.
_________________________
SNAP!

Top
#292200 - 12/20/07 07:50 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
Most of the world's newspapers are written on a 5th grade level. Rather than say "Bad parenting caused teens to murder" it gets more looks when the headline reads "T.V. causes deaths". As a student of psychology I am aware of Albert Bandura's research into observational behavior. It is his work that people will refer to and they will jump the gap and say-"T.V causes it". You can't blame the TV for bad behavior anymore than you blame shoddy carpentry on a hammer. I grew up watching Tom & Jerry and in my teens I watched all of the slasher films-I never felt the need to drop an anvil on someone's head nor run someone through with a chainsaw. My parents explained to me that TV was not real and that if I were to copy things that weren't acceptable that there would consequences.
Bad parenting=Bad Behavior

Top
#292206 - 12/20/07 08:35 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
I just read this news story very carefully. I do not see where they blamed the video games for the behavior. The prosecutor said that they used moves that they saw in the video game. The prosecutor was not using that as a defense; nor, was he laying blame on the video game. He blamed the teenagers, and I can only assume that the prosecutor, who mentioned the video game, is going for the whole enchilada. Of course, that doesn’t mean others won’t make that connection.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

Top
#292214 - 12/20/07 09:50 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: DickSteele]
RottenBonnie Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 546
Loc: The West Coast, USA
 Originally Posted By: DickSteele
Bad parenting=Bad Behavior


I agree, but only to a point. In this case the culprits are 16 and 17 years old. Despite the fact that their parenting was probably questionable, they are nearly adults and should be in the stage of learning to make adult decisions (good parenting helps toward this, but there are other avenues such as school and peers). I would give this a 75% personal responsibility 25% parental responsibility equation. I mean, however bad their parents may have been it is unlikely that they beat someone to death in front of them and called that a good decision.

I think the parents of the girl who was killed are also to blame, not for the homicide, but for putting their daughter in such questionable care. Negligent homicide or something like that.
_________________________
"The smartest, most passionate, most beautiful women I've met have been Satanists. I don't mean "beautiful on the inside where it really counts;" I mean gorgeous, vibrant, curvy women." Blanche Barton

"There's no such thing as too many books." Poetaster

Top
#292218 - 12/20/07 10:21 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: RottenBonnie]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Just to add an addendum to this response, I find it disgusting when people are so quick to lay blame solely upon the parents. Great parents can have children that turn out to be monsters, just as terrible parents can have children that are plain ol' Saints. I think this mentality stems from the PC culture that covers society like some sickly fog, and it has a lot to do with being afraid to call a spade a spade. Some kids are just fucked up, with or without proper parenting.

We certainly don't know enough about this story to automatically assume that the parents are worthless scum who bred a shit for brains teenager. Responsibility to the fucking responsible, not blame placed on the absent. Where is the line in the sand that simply can't be crossed; that says eventually, mommy and daddy can't be crucified for the asshole that shoots up the local bank? When is a moron just a moron? These are the kind of questions that people need to start asking themselves, instead of speculating on how many fucking hugs these pieces of shit got.

The buck has to stop with the individual at some point.


Edited by Poetaster (12/21/07 06:52 PM)
Edit Reason: After some more thought, I'm not in 100% agreement.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





Top
#292219 - 12/20/07 10:26 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: DickSteele]
Storm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/30/07
Posts: 567
Loc: West Valley, UT, USA
I agree that there are always groups searching for scapegoats for society's "problem children". I definately don't blame "Mortal Kombat". I played that game quite a bit in college and never thought it could influence kids toward violence anymore than Mary Shelley influenced anyone to actually raise the dead. Thus I say leave it to the Sheeple to promote these sorts of ideas.

I also agree that these pieces of shit should most certainly be tried as adults and serve maximum sentences. However, I believe more than the bad parents - it's also bad peers. It seems that "Generation Y" is filled with this overinflated "fuck you" attitude and they are justifying their out-of-control actions with ridiculous statements such as, "I do it 'cause I can and nunyas gonna do shit 'bout it". Whatever happened to the attitudes of yore? I have a serious appreciation for the past ideals that my parents (Baby Boomers) were raised on.
_________________________
"The sleep of reason brings forth monsters."
~Francisco Goya

"When Hell is Full of Souls, The Tattooed Will Walk the Earth."
~Bob Tyrrell, The Night Gallery Tattoo

Facebook: facebook.com/artonyoustudios

Top
#292229 - 12/21/07 12:18 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Leske Offline


Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 48
Loc: Iraq - Usually Kansas City
The worst part about this entire situation is the continued inability for people to take responsibility for their own actions. Even if you did attempt to take responsibility, people would always look for a reason why.

Granted, the headline did its job in grabbing peoples attention. It's unfortunate that most people won't read past the headline, let alone critically examine the story.
_________________________
"Six seconds left until your eyes turn green and you begin to question everything you've ever seen."

Top
#292235 - 12/21/07 01:10 AM What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Storm]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
When I was 17 years old I worked in a factory taking care of industrial machines big enough for me to crawl inside to check the oil level.

I know in America young people are not as mature as in other places... but I'm sure at 16 a person’s level of reasoning is almost the same as an adult. Maybe not as experienced, but definitely old enough to understand something as elemental as the difference between playing a game and hurting a living person.

I could understand a 5 year old kid who doesn't know the difference between reality and fiction would mimic dangerous stunts he sees on TV or games.

But 16-17 year olds?

These two had to be completely retarded not to realize hitting and kicking a younger child is not right. Maybe the game was the inspiration... but the real source of his tragedy is two teenagers with the I.Q. of a lobotomized baboon and probably their equally brainless parents.
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


Top
#292236 - 12/21/07 01:17 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Boman Offline


Registered: 12/17/07
Posts: 8
I don't think watching violent videos or playing video games such as Mortal Kombat are soley responsible for the actions of people doing nutty things like killing siblings.

But i do think it has a certain infulence such as in this case.
I remember one case some years ago of a shool shooter in the US who took out fellow students in a hallway with a pistol.
His aiming and hits were incrediable, almost 95% head shots at moving targets.
This was atributed to the fact he played a shoot 'em up game for hours a day thus improving his skill of aiming at moving targets.
The end result was instead of going hunting in the forest he went hunting at school.

Top
#292260 - 12/21/07 06:17 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Grima Offline


Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Netherlands
It's always easier for the masses to lay the blame on something that's clearly visible to them. It makes them feel safer; knowing that it were those evil, hidious video-games that did it and not two retards who are wasting precious oxygen.

Top
#292308 - 12/21/07 11:45 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Poetaster]
RottenBonnie Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 546
Loc: The West Coast, USA
 Originally Posted By: Poetaster
Some kids are just fucked up, with or without proper parenting.


True, some people are fucked up, with or whithout proper parenting. That being said, though, these murderers were still technically children themselves. They didn't even reach the age of 18 before committing murder. Therein lies my 25% parental blame equation.

 Originally Posted By: Poetaster
We certainly don't know enough about this story to automatically assume that the parents are worthless scum who bred a shit for brains teenager. Responsibility to the fucking responsible, not blame placed on the absent.

The buck has to stop with the individual at some point.


This is also true, but when a teenager beats a little kid to death you have to see that as a parental failure. It isn't blaming the parents for the murder itself to say that obviously they failed to raise a productive member of society.

There isn't a magic cut-off age where the parent no longer has influence over their child, but 16 and 17 isn't even close. Again, when a person doesn't even reach adulthood without murder on their record that is a parental failure somehow, somewhere. Big time.
_________________________
"The smartest, most passionate, most beautiful women I've met have been Satanists. I don't mean "beautiful on the inside where it really counts;" I mean gorgeous, vibrant, curvy women." Blanche Barton

"There's no such thing as too many books." Poetaster

Top
#292315 - 12/21/07 12:02 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: RottenBonnie]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Video games may help to "inspire" ideas for these acts of violence, but I doubt they do much to instigate them. If it wasn't kids using a sawed off shot gun they saw in Doom, then it could have been the sawed off shotgun from Evil Dead.

It is hard for us to say at this point what the truth is on this issue, because there has been no real objective scientific study done on the matter. Most of what we "know" about video game related murder is conjecture and hearsay at this point.

As Bonnie pointed out, the parents, at least until that child turns eighteen, should be held more accountable then they are for these incidents occuring. If that is not acceptable, then the "legal age" concerning the law should be lowered.

I do not think kids get enough credit so to speak, and that many of them are underestimated. I am as "smart" now as I was when I was thirteen, if not a lot wiser. I can tell you though, I sure knew better then to beat up a four year old, or take a damn gun to school.

I personally believe, and always believe that the age and other factors should not have an effect on sentencing. A crime is a crime, whether it be committed by a ten year old, or a fourty year old. I think a parent should share this punishment if the suspect is of a very young age.

It is a convoluted topic, but individuals like Jack Thompson who are trying to prevent, it seems, even adults from indulging in adult content, are not helping the problem any. In the future, if the crackdown gets any harder, and as we see the ratings slip from M to AO, who knows; maybe someday these games will be sold in "Adult Game Stores" with any kind of content allowed?

Top
#292317 - 12/21/07 12:05 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: TheDegenerate]
Auge Offline


Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Germany
Viseo Games and real life violence are a big issue here in Germany, too. There has been a number of scientific studies concerning the connection of the two, yet no scientific proof has yet been found that such a connection exists.

Of course, this doesn't keep people from claiming the contrary.
_________________________
Alle Wesen bisher schufen etwas über sich hinaus: und ihr wollt die Ebbe dieser großen Flut sein und lieber noch zum Tiere zurückgehn, als den Menschen überwinden?
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Top
#292323 - 12/21/07 12:13 PM Re: What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Old_Pig]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
20th Century: The Devil made me do it!

21th Century: Video Games made me do it!

The more things change, the more they remain the same...
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


Top
#292373 - 12/21/07 05:58 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: RottenBonnie]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
 Quote:
That being said, though, these murderers were still technically children themselves. They didn't even reach the age of 18 before committing murder. Therein lies my 25% parental blame equation.


They were old enough to know better.

An idiot is an idiot, with or without great parenting. I place responsibility where it is supposed to be, not on a scapegoat. I don't know that the parents of these wretched pukes did a bad job raising their children. For all I know, they could have had every opportunity to succeed placed on a silver platter for them, and simply pissed it away as a lot of kids do. Hell, for all we really know, these two assholes could have murdered on purpose and just be plain ol' nuts. I'll let the people that are paid to sort it out, sort it out.

Parents can't be expected to bare the brunt of every stupid decision that their teenagers make; 16 and 17, hardly children. If we start allowing that people aren't accountable for their actions until they reach an arbitrary number, then we just as well toss the idea of responsibility right out of the fucking window. I certainly agree that young children need guidance, but 16 and 17? They didn't know that body-slamming a small child is a bad idea? Give me a break.

When an eight year old starts selling drugs on the street, stealing cars and committing drive-by shootings, then we can probably assume that the parents aren't doing something right. But people seem to forget that children are naturally rebellious and are going to push boundaries, unfortunately some just push too far. It isn't a parents job to walk hand-in-hand with their children every second of the day, that's just logistically impossible and quite ludicrous. Teach them morals, love them and care for them, do your best to keep them safe and strive to provide opportunities for success. But what else can a parent really do? No matter what, some kids are going to be bad apples and it's a real shame that society is so quick to crucify the parents.

 Quote:
but when a teenager beats a little kid to death you have to see that as a parental failure.


I don't have to see that as a parental failure, it could be, but it doesn't follow that it absolutely is. I don't buy it. Maybe I'm giving teenagers too much credit, but I think at some point an understanding of ethical right and wrong, as well as criminal and lawful behavior, has surely sunk in for those that are going to fly by those rules, and went right over the head of those that aren't.

Besides, some people are just really, really stupid, and age has no bearing on that.

Personally, I come from a broken home, but I turned out alright and I've never blamed my parents for any mistakes that I've made. Of course, I was never dumb enough to do anything criminal in the first place. On second thought, I think I stole a pack of gum when I was nine, but my mother had already taught me that stealing was wrong and illegal. Should she be hung out to dry because I was a little shit head? She did her job, and she went further in her job description by disciplining me once she found out, but I did it anyway because that's what kids do.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





Top
#292384 - 12/21/07 07:06 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I have yet to read through the other posts, but this reminds me of when Judas Priest was on trial.

"String em up!"
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

Top
#292460 - 12/22/07 03:19 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Poetaster]
RottenBonnie Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 546
Loc: The West Coast, USA
I don't think the parents were responsible for the murder per se. You're right; they weren't present and they didn't commit the acts that led to the death of a child. However, there is no doubt in my mind that they are culpable.

When you bring a child into the world your job is to produce a well adjusted, productive member of society. Sometimes that doesn't happen due to circumstances beyond anyone's control. This was not one of those circumstances. These kids made horrible, life altering decisions. Because of those decisions their parents will not be introducing well adjusted, productive adults into society; their kids will be in prison for murder instead. That is parental failure.

Certainly if my 17 year old son were to kill his 6 year old brother I would feel responsible; I would have to. In fact, it would be irresponsible of me to just shrug and say, "Well some kids are bad apples, what can you do? I did my best." No, I didn't do my best, obviously. I failed as a parent. FAILED. I can't say how these people failed, but they definitely failed.

Your mom didn't fail; she did her job and you, other than being a conservative Republican , seem pretty well adjusted and productive.

Believe me, I'm not out to crucify parents for the actions of their kids; I'd be setting myself up to be crucified! But the amount of bad parenting in the world astounds me. It is horrible to see the complete abdication of parental responsibility that is absolutely rampant in the world today. I take my job as a parent very seriously. I see it as my responsibility to my children, and to myself, to raise my kids up to be the best that they can be. And if they made a decision that sent them to prison before they turned 18 I would consider it a personal failure. Did these parents take the same amount of responsibility for raising their child? I strongly doubt it.
_________________________
"The smartest, most passionate, most beautiful women I've met have been Satanists. I don't mean "beautiful on the inside where it really counts;" I mean gorgeous, vibrant, curvy women." Blanche Barton

"There's no such thing as too many books." Poetaster

Top
#292483 - 12/22/07 08:43 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
I totally and unrestrictedly lay the blame squarely at Jack Thomson. Purely because he stuck this crap into the collective consciousness and does his best to keep it there (causing a lot of pain in the process), how christian of him.

Well actually no I don't but it would be nice if he did get the blame once in his life, it would be a nice change.

I agree very much with what Rottenbonnie wrote, kids have minds of their own but they are shaped by their parents.

Ask a child under 10 if killing someone else is wrong, they will tell you it is if their parents have done their job properly.

Just another case of idiot children have idiot parents so they do something idiotic and someone dies.

Tragic.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

Top
#292492 - 12/22/07 09:45 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: RottenBonnie]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
 Quote:
However, there is no doubt in my mind that they are culpable.


There's the rub, because you don't know enough about this story to place that kind of weight on these parents. It is quite possible that the parents are great parents, and they unfortunately have stupid "children". It's this kind of nonsense that perpetuates the 'rough childhood' legal defense, and that's just bunk. It's a convenient excuse that completely negates the idea of responsibility.

 Quote:
This was not one of those circumstances.


How do you know that?

This story reads like a classic case of two teenagers finding an opportunity to throw a few back while mommy and daddy aren't around to bust their ass. They got drunk, did something stupid, just like a lot of kids do while sneaking around behind their parents backs to get wasted, and now they deserve the full repercussions of their actions.

If this were a story about a prepubescent child picking up a gun and blowing someone away because he saw it in a film and thought it was cool, then I would be willing to concede that the parents were irresponsible, but it wasn't. Instead you have two retards making a stupid decision, and now people are going to start questioning if they have good parents. Bullshit, let them rot in prison where they belong.

We will likely need to agree to disagree.





Edited by Poetaster (12/22/07 09:50 AM)
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





Top
#292513 - 12/22/07 11:44 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Poetaster]
RottenBonnie Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 546
Loc: The West Coast, USA
 Originally Posted By: Poetaster
It's this kind of nonsense that perpetuates the 'rough childhood' legal defense, and that's just bunk. It's a convenient excuse that completely negates the idea of responsibility.


You seem to think that I feel they shouldn't pay the price for what they did. That is not the case. They need to go to prison forever as they are obviously unable to function in society. They deserve nothing less than the full force of the law coming down upon their heads. I don't allow that their potential "rough childhood" is an excuse at all. There is no excuse. These two took someone's life and now they must pay the consequences.

I don't think that the parent's should be punished by the law because they did not commit the crime. However, they are legally responsible for their children until they reach the age of adulthood. That is the law and therefore they are culpable. Whether they were "good parents," or not, is now irrelevant. A child is dead and, the parents of all children involved now have to live with what happened and that is punishment enough.

 Originally Posted By: poetaster
This story reads like a classic case of two teenagers finding an opportunity to throw a few back while mommy and daddy aren't around to bust their ass. They got drunk, did something stupid, just like a lot of kids do while sneaking around behind their parents backs to get wasted, and now they deserve the full repercussions of their actions.


I don't read it that way and this is where we will have to agree to disagree. Usually a juvenile will not just commit murder out of the blue. One day a perfectly normal kid, the next day 7 year old beaten to death. No, this wasn't just "something stupid" that the kids did while they were drunk. In fact, if it were "merely an accident" they would deserve LESS reprecussions for their actions. However, repeatedly hitting someone much smaller than oneself shows a tendency for violence that doesn't just manifest itself one day out of the blue.

There are risk factors involved with juveniles that commit serious offenses. Here is a great website that talks about those risk factors here and one of them is "family problems...including a lack of parental control over the child."

Again, my bleeding liberal heart in no way advocates that they shouldn't be prosecuted for their actions. They should be. They have to be. My contention is that given the risk factors these children were likely showing why were they responsible for the safety and well-being of a seven year old? That was some adult's decision. A very stupid adult.

 Originally Posted By: poetaster
Instead you have two retards making a stupid decision, and now people are going to start questioning if they have good parents. Bullshit, let them rot in prison where they belong.


Yes, let them rot in prison. And let their parents live with the fact that they made some serious mistakes.



Edited by RottenBonnie (12/22/07 12:19 PM)
Edit Reason: I figured out how to add that cool url "here" thing.
_________________________
"The smartest, most passionate, most beautiful women I've met have been Satanists. I don't mean "beautiful on the inside where it really counts;" I mean gorgeous, vibrant, curvy women." Blanche Barton

"There's no such thing as too many books." Poetaster

Top
#292533 - 12/22/07 01:25 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
In this story, and others like it, what is usually missing? A Father! Parenting is pluralistic, and with few exceptions, the traditional rolls serve the child best.

Clearly, at 16 and 17, you should be held accountable for murder. Their parents do not deserve a free pass at all.

The only victim in this story, never will see her 8th birthday.

Top
#292598 - 12/22/07 08:46 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: RottenBonnie]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
 Quote:
Usually a juvenile will not just commit murder out of the blue. One day a perfectly normal kid, the next day 7 year old beaten to death. No, this wasn't just "something stupid" that the kids did while they were drunk. In fact, if it were "merely an accident" they would deserve LESS reprecussions for their actions. However, repeatedly hitting someone much smaller than oneself shows a tendency for violence that doesn't just manifest itself one day out of the blue.


Couple idiocy with alcohol, and it is quite possible to commit murder "out of the blue". It happens all of the time. But it was certainly no accident in this case, and I never said that it was. The two committed murder as sure as I'm sitting here typing this. But there is nothing in this story that even suggests prior signs of violence or criminal behavior, so there's no reason for myself, or you, to start lynching the parents for allowing these two to babysit.

Basically, this all boils down to not making hasty judgment calls about a story that we really know nothing about. I know that the two teenagers did something heinous, I know that at least one was intoxicated, and I know that they deserve to face the jury, however, that's the extent of what I know. It does me no no good to assume that the parents made a bad call or neglected some facet of their parenting duties. And although it could turn out that they did just that, jumping to conclusions is never the right way to go when searching for answers.

Let the truth come out in trial, lest it start warping through speculation.

I do see your position, and in many cases it is absolutely correct I'm sure, however, I don't think that we can safely assume such to be the case right now, considering the limited knowledge we have about the incident in question. And my main contention is not that parents are never culpable, it is how fast some people are to cast stones before the dust has even settled.

Knee-jerk reactions are fairly ugly and rarely correct.

But hey, at least we agree that these jerk-offs deserve some fine Justice Department housing. ;\)
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





Top
#292697 - 12/23/07 08:01 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Poetaster]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2054
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
There are a lot of horrid parents out there, that is unfortunately a fact that cannot be argued. That being said, I don't agree with the sentiment that any individual who raises a child that displays criminal behavior (or is simply an idiot) necessarily failed as a parent, was neglectful, or did a terrible job raising them.

As a mother, my job is to protect and nurture my children, help them discover who they are so they can find their own path in life, and guide them into adulthood. As they develop and mature, I can only hope that they choose to make smart choices for themselves and society, but it is essentially out of my hands. I am raising individuals who have the ability to make their own decisions, and they must take the consequences of those choices, good or bad. Such is life.

Trust me, once your child hits a certain age, you learn fairly quickly that the game changes and it's not about you having the "control" over them. I've known plenty of attentive, loving and devoted parents who had children that grew to follow an ugly path. If my older teen decided to go off the deep end, it would of course be heartbreaking for me, but it sure as hell doesn't make me a bad parent or give anyone the right to automatically blame me for his choices.

Just my thoughts.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Bruja

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young" - Oscar Wilde

Top
#292701 - 12/23/07 08:19 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Bruja]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
 Quote:
If my older teen decided to go off the deep end, it would of course be heartbreaking for me, but it sure as hell doesn't make me a bad parent or give anyone the right to automatically blame me for his choices.


Exactly!

That's what gets my goat, so many people are so quick to burn parents at the stake. I just don't like it when people make knee-jerk reactions and consider it some grand truth about the universe. That's basically what I've been beating over the head in this entire exchange, and I thank you, as a parent, for weighing in with your opinion.

Hail Responsibility where it belongs!
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





Top
#292702 - 12/23/07 08:33 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Poetaster]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2054
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
You're welcome.

I agree with your viewpoint in this thread.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Bruja

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young" - Oscar Wilde

Top
#292708 - 12/23/07 09:13 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Bruja]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: Bruja
There are a lot of horrid parents out there, that is unfortunately a fact that cannot be argued. That being said, I don't agree with the sentiment that any individual who raises a child that displays criminal behavior (or is simply an idiot) necessarily failed as a parent, was neglectful, or did a terrible job raising them.


I think that on the average good parenting will create better children - but average doesn't make it a universal rule. I think that most of us who have lived to a certain age have seen examples of good parents ending up with children who make all the wrong choices, and the reverse is true also. I am one of those who choose not to let bad parenting, a dysfunctional family etc. be what determined my path in life.

I think you have the right idea - set them on the right path, but at a certain age it becomes their own responsibility to stay there or choose another path that seems right for them, parents don't always know what is best for their offspring. We shouldn't have boys in their thirties still relying on their mother to do their laundry or mothers who still try to micromanage the lives of their daughters well into their forties as I've seem it happen around me.
_________________________
While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

Top
#292709 - 12/23/07 09:23 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: verszou]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
As usual, it's not an "always or never" deal. I would tend to agree that good, attentive parenting will be more likely to succeed than fail, and bad or negligent parenting will be more likely to create a little shithead or psychopath than a concert pianist.

But, for whatever reasons, by whatever causes--peer pressure, mental illness, bad decisions, rebellion, just plain individuation/making different choices--children sometimes do things that will shame their generally-competent parents.

I usually like to watch and see who or what the parents blame, and how shrilly. That can tell you a lot.

_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#292710 - 12/23/07 09:25 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: TheDegenerate]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
I personally believe, and always believe that the age and other factors should not have an effect on sentencing. A crime is a crime, whether it be committed by a ten year old, or a fourty year old. I think a parent should share this punishment if the suspect is of a very young age.


I disagree. A few years ago there was a 6 year old who brought a gun to school. He shot one of his classmates. He had no comprehension that the little girl died and wasn't coming back to school. Yes, shooting someone is certainly wrong, and the little boy deserved an appropriate punishment (as did the parents who were careless enough to allow a 6 year old access of a gun).

There is a HUGE difference between a 6 year old killing someone because he saw it on tv or in a video game and did not have the cognitive functioning to understand what he had done versus teens. The reason that I make this distinction is because around the age of 13 or 14 a child has reached the final stage of cognitive development (although their experience and decision-making skills will become more refined with experience). A teenager has the ability to identify right from wrong and to understand repercussions of their actions. I'm all for charging teenagers as adults. However, it would be unfair to charge a 10 year old who lacks the mental capacity of an adult, as an adult.
_________________________
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

Top
#292715 - 12/23/07 09:48 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Bruja]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
I do think it's true that children indeed have a strong personality of their own, and the best a parent can do is try to nurture and encourage them to find heir own path.

Just to add some anecdotal stories to the thread topic, on the flip side, even somewhat "neglected" children can turn out well. My mother wasn't necessarily neglectful, but she was, say, sometimes a little blind (I'll put it nicely, as none of her children doubt her love, just her damn foolish reasoning).

But we all turned out quite well, despite being in the prime statistical group to either get into crime, welfare dependency or have babies well before we were even remotely prepared. Somehow the balance in my childhood household shifted, and we partly took care of her. So responsibility and consequences were learned at a young age.

Top
#292718 - 12/23/07 09:50 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: AurEum]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Naturally, it depends on the nature of the crime.

A 6-year-old who shoots somebody probably didn't know what he was doing. In most cases, 6-year-olds do not know what they're doing, period. Children can do lots of dumb, horrible things in one quick movement and one fell swoop, because they typically lack the wisdom, development, and sophistication to do otherwise.

Now, a 10-year-old who drags a toddler down to the railroad tracks and beats them to death--that's another matter. A 6-year-old who habitually and sadistically hurts people and animals--that's a cause for real concern. Certainly, a 16-year-old ought to know better than to go full "mortal kombat" on a small child or animal (and I'd argue that even goes for if they're drunk).

(To the judge who will preside over this particular case, I say, "FINISH THEM!")

People who do those sorts of things are typically either too psychopathic to be allowed to roam, or too retarded to be left alone. I might tend to argue that even a normal-seeming kid who--in a moment of childish wrath and poor common sense--commits a really, profoundly sadistic or gory crime has been changed for the worse by that event, not unlike a bear or a tiger that has had a taste of human flesh. I would love to see more research on this, because I have always wondered just how much one's wicked childhood acts come to bear on one's attitude, productivity, or conduct as an adult.

And, I really do wish adults would stop blaming music, games, and movies. Yes, these things can heighten aggression, but the job of adults is to help kids navigate safely and intelligently through a world that makes them feel angry, pouty, and aggressive sometimes. The idea that something else "makes you" do something against your will is not a very productive one.

"I'm sorry, Officer, I was practicing my fatality moves when I punched that old lady in the spine. Oh, and I was mad that she had 12 items in the 10-items-or-less aisle, because I don't want to miss 'Grey's Anatomy.'"
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#292725 - 12/23/07 10:20 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Zaftig]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2054
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
 Quote:
Just to add some anecdotal stories to the thread topic, on the flip side, even somewhat "neglected" children can turn out well.


Absolutely, that's an important flip side of the coin. While the home environment often has a substantial impact on how a person will develop, it's not the only factor. Just as wonderful parents can have children that end up being losers, parents that may not do the best of jobs have been known to have children that shine despite that fact. The cream always rises to the top.

What I always find interesting is hearing how an adult views how their upbringing impacted their life , particulary if they had negative experiences growing up. Everyone I know has a sad story to tell somewhere along the way. That doesn't make anyone special or give them a free pass to go through life whining about how they got the short end of the stick. Observing an individual define themselves by their tragedies or hardships, constantly throwing blame on others for their lack of success and all around playing the victim usually indicates to me that they probably wouldn't have had the strength of character to make it in this world even with an ideal childhood.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Bruja

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young" - Oscar Wilde

Top
#292729 - 12/23/07 10:43 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Bruja]
HiddenHorror Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 54
Loc: USA
The world has a victim mentality. They are never at fault, and are always the victim.

I personally have persevered through much adversity in my life. I never recall them for pity or for a good story, only if the conversation would warrant my personal experience to lead others in the correct path.

You are defined by what you overcome.

It is a shame that people look for a way out instead of a way to improve themselves these days.

I find it hard to believe that people cannot realize that existence is random and meaningless. Out of the chaos a few shine, but even more fall into oblivion. Good riddance.
_________________________
Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror. -- François-Marie Arouet (Voltaire)

Top
#292980 - 12/24/07 08:53 AM Re: What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Old_Pig]
Allison Offline


Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 31
Loc: nyc
Agreed...quite certain that 16, 17 year old people get that they shouldn't be punching, kicking and bodyslamming little girls (or anyone, for that matter, if not in self defense!). So, while I think that the responsibility fo this "event" falls squarely on the shoulders of the perpetrators, I would bet nearly my last buck that you can find horible parenting, lack of personal responsibilty, etc. rippled throughout their lineage. Scum breeds scum...are there exceptions to this rule? Sure there are, but in my opinion, not many.
_________________________
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true." Samuel Clemens

Top
#292987 - 12/24/07 09:53 AM Re: What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Allison]
Adversaryan Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Seattle WA
Sometimes I swear I am the only one who remembers being a kid. i remember beating other kids up over game play. I remember why. Good old flat out anger and jealousy. I remember how when I was a kid I could do something and completely wipe it from my memory at the same time so I didn't even know I did it. There are things people swear I did to this day that I still honestly don't remember doing.
not to mention no actual understanding of consequence because I wasn't doing anything in the first place. there was never any real concept of right and wrong just caught an uncaught and it wasn't because I wasn't told right from wrong it was because everything was only right and wrong some of the time. No consistency in anything. I could beat up a kid one day and not be in trouble and do it again another day and be in trouble. The only lesson learned was everything is fair game as long as your parents don't catch any flack.
So I naturally have to put the blame on the child's lack of reality and the parents fault for there lack of reality. I have a son now as well so I don't like to hear bad parent shit either but its still true. I have never met any great parents with fucked up kids. I don't care how much you like them as people. Fucked up parents have fucked up kids.
All you can do is try to make sure they understand reality and reality's consequences. If you let your son get away with something because you feel sorry for him or you believe his lie or any other reason all he learns is to get away with things, and theres no reason he wouldn't temporarily think he could get away with killing someone. because he might.
_________________________
Nothing is absolute!! ~me~

Top
#292995 - 12/24/07 10:44 AM Re: What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Adversaryan]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2054
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
 Quote:
I have never met any great parents with fucked up kids. I don't care how much you like them as people. Fucked up parents have fucked up kids.


I'm quite sure I'm not the only one that would argue these statements. But hey, as long as it's been your life experience, it must be true.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Bruja

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young" - Oscar Wilde

Top
#292998 - 12/24/07 10:55 AM Re: What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Bruja]
Adversaryan Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Seattle WA
Lol That aside.

Thats just how it works. The only great parents I have ever met are the ones who are talking about how they would raise there kids. As apposed to how they end up raising there kids. i imagine this probibly more depends on what your and my opinion of a great kid is. but yeah in my life experience from Seattle to Italy and back and all the states in between, family and friends and acquaintances in the last 29 years. All the fucked up kids had a bit fucked up if not equally to more fucked up parents.
_________________________
Nothing is absolute!! ~me~

Top
#293003 - 12/24/07 11:16 AM Re: What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Adversaryan]
Adversaryan Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Seattle WA
I am going to go ahead and indulge myself in complimenting your beauty btw. You make the world a better place to gaze oppon =)
_________________________
Nothing is absolute!! ~me~

Top
#293004 - 12/24/07 11:28 AM Re: What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Adversaryan]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
 Quote:
Thats just how it works.


That's not how it works. Your comment is undeniably spacious, lacks perspective and completely ignores reality. Continue making such categorical assertions, and it will probably guarantee that nobody takes you seriously.

You can start by researching Dr. Norman E. Hoffman, however, spending ten minutes on Google alone will net you enough information to keep you busy for a long time. Solipsism is a nasty disease, but the cure is readily available, and it's right at your fingertips.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





Top
#293044 - 12/24/07 04:57 PM Re: What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Adversaryan]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
 Originally Posted By: Adversaryan
I am going to go ahead and indulge myself in complimenting your beauty btw. You make the world a better place to gaze oppon =)


Won't be the first, won't be the last.
_________________________
All Hail Satan, for I shall ever be his mouth in this blessed and righteous Kingdom of the United!

"Don't you see? If the gays can get married then the whole institution of marriage will be destroyed! Society will crumble! Rivers will run red with blood! And Nazis will walk the earth riding dinosaurs!" Princess Clara, the unsung voice of the Christian right.

www.vampiretemple.com - are you one of us?

Top
#293061 - 12/24/07 06:04 PM Re: What kind of retards were those two? [Re: Bruja]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
 Originally Posted By: Bruja
 Quote:
I have never met any great parents with fucked up kids. I don't care how much you like them as people. Fucked up parents have fucked up kids.


I'm quite sure I'm not the only one that would argue these statements. But hey, as long as it's been your life experience, it must be true.


You certainly are not the only one who would argue such a statement.

There have been Nobel Prize winners, and great inventors that have come from less than humble backgrounds with.....less than savory parents.

My own Mother who I have severed ties with completely was a horrid parent and yet, I do not repeat the mistakes that she has made in her life.

If anything, I have learned from 'her' mistakes.

It is also important to ask the question:

"What is a horrible/F'd up parent"?

What is the definition of that term?

I am sure it varies.

To some it could be......I did not get the toy I wanted on My Birthday....

To others? I got kicked and locked in a closet.

Not every child's actions are an end result of their upbringing.

I am reminded of the comedy of Chris Rock where he mentions....

"Whatever happened to 'just plain crazy?'.

Some folks are simply that. Crazy.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


Top
#293086 - 12/24/07 08:29 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
Sideshowtuper Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 464
Loc: NY, USA
What a bunch of crap, I have been watching gruesome horror movies since I was old enough to turn on the television. I have been an avid player of the "Mortal Kombat" series since I was 10.

I'm soon to be 26 and haven't had any voilent episodes.

Are we the only sane people left?
_________________________
"All animals except man know that the principal business of life is to enjoy it."
- Samuel Butler


Sideshow Tuper on Undercroft

13 Moons Occult Supplies

Top
#293088 - 12/24/07 08:40 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Sideshowtuper]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
"Don't you blame the movies, Sid! Movies don't create psychos. Movies just make psychos more creative!" ~Scream
 Quote:
Are we the only sane people left?


Yup. I did/do the same (watch alot of gruesome horror movies) and I'm perfectly normal.

Seriously though, this is a great angle for a defense lawyer (the weird Videodrome-"The Game Made Me Do It" thing). I'm sure juries eat this shit up.
_________________________
"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

We're Just Regular People

Top
#293105 - 12/24/07 10:26 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Sideshowtuper]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
I absolutely agree. I watched monster movies when I was a kid. They were not as graphic as movies are now; but, I always read books that were meant for an older audience. I read The Exorcist in grade school, and the one teacher thought I was terrible for it. I have yet to be possessed. I read all manner of violent material without turning into a killer. I was constantly caught with adult magazines while growing up. I did not turn out to be a pervert. Hell…I even read Cracked, Mad and Sick magazines religiously, and, as far as I can tell, I never turned into a moron. If you look as far back as there has been popular entertainment…often disguised as religious stories…there have been killing, torture and gore.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

Top
#293149 - 12/25/07 10:22 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Yep, I practically bathe in violent media in some sense, and while I can be sadistic-sounding in word sometimes (particularly where my sense of humor's concerned), everyone who knows me or who would happen to meet me would say that I am typically gentle and nice in deed. I've never physically harmed another person.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#293264 - 12/26/07 04:08 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Bruja]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10566
Loc: England
>> As a mother, my job is to protect and nurture my children, help them discover who they are so they can find their own path in life, and guide them into adulthood.<<

You already know that I hold you in high regard as a mother, Twinkle Toes.

But one thing that makes my fucking blood boil with these parents is the complete handing over of resonsibility for their children's education and nurturing.

In effect, home education is always required. Yes, children can learn things at school - the parameters of which extend well beyond academics - however, the point I am driving at is when these parents bitterly complain about the education system failing their half-illiterate offspring.

The school has failed them. The education system is failing us all - that is what's at fault, that is what's to blame. They completely entrust the whole spectrum of educating children to the school when ultimatley it begins and ends with them.

How often do we hear parents whinging "I don't know what's wrong with these kids. What on earth are they teaching them in school these days?"

When will the fucking dolts realise it's their own resonsibility?

Just as I know you do. And that undertaking is the crux of good parenting.
_________________________
"Spiral Out: a bleak, page-turning, unforgettable read. Existentialism at its most hardcore" - www.uvray.moonfruit.com





Top
#293271 - 12/26/07 06:33 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Vestiphobic Offline


Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 99
Loc: Minnesota
"The school has failed them. The education system is failing us all - that is what's at fault, that is what's to blame. They completely entrust the whole spectrum of educating children to the school when ultimatley it begins and ends with them."


Indeed.
The school systems in America seem to be the biggest breeding ground for stupidity.
Whats worse, is that they are so limiting.
When i was in High School, my senior year, I was going to remove physics from my class schedule, because, I had already gotten accepted into a very prestigious art school, and wanted to take as many art classes in order to lessen the load in college, and because I had already taken college level biology/chemistry, and didnt really need the science credit.
My "genius" counselor wouldnt let me do that, because (and this is a direct quote "The school gets more money, if a girl is in a Science or math class than if she is in an art course. "

Its sad I think, that most parents dont realize this, nor do they take the time to know that its not just a weak system, but school advisiors look at children like little, walking wallets.

And, even more unfortunately, have you ever looked into private schools? Theyre a band-aid solution in my opinion, where, yes the child is learning more, but, at least in Minnesota, I cant find a single private school that ISNT Catholic.
_________________________
"Painting gave meaning to my life which without it it would not have had" -Francis Bacon

Top
#293273 - 12/26/07 06:44 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Vestiphobic]
Taubmann Offline


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Basque Country
In spanish (I don´t know if this happen in english too) to educate and to teach aren´t exactly synonyms. To educate has a deeper sense that involves values, politeness and how to live your life while to teach just means to provide academic knowledge.

So, having that in mind, I would say parents should educate and teachers should teach. A lot of children arrive at the educative system being just barbarians because their parents haven´t been able to educate them in any sense.
_________________________
“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”

Kierkegaard

Top
#293285 - 12/26/07 08:29 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: TrojZyr]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
I know I have told this story before; probably on this forum; but I am at the age where I repeat my favorite stories over and over again. Pity my poor wife.

On a “family” movie trip, my wife and son went to a children’s movie, and I saw “Hostel”. At least half of the already small audience left before the movie ended. After the movie was over, those of us left stood around and talked a little. We were complete strangers, and we were talking to each other.

My wife’s experience, on the other hand, was horrible. People bumped into her. Poured soda down her back took phone calls during the movie and was rude when she asked them to converse outside the theater. These were adults who were acting like this. Everyone was miserable. I found it very interesting that, after watching a movie about people who paid money to torture and kill left feeling good, talking to people we did not know…and those who saw a children’s movie were wretched. I say, turn off the damned Barney, Elmo and Telletubbies, and sit the little tikes in front of some Quentin Tarantino. Apparently, watching people getting whacked is good for you!
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

Top
#293288 - 12/26/07 08:38 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Vestiphobic]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10566
Loc: England
>> Indeed.
The school systems in America seem to be the biggest breeding ground for stupidity. <<

It can be, yes, but that's not the point I am making.

What I am saying is that parents are handing over responsibility to the education system. Education ultimately begins and ends with the parents themselves.

It is typical of victim mentality to then blame the system having handed over the reins.

The system is there to produce stupid, easily controlled drones tailored for the 9 - 5 world. The trick is to use the system, rather than be subservient to it.
_________________________
"Spiral Out: a bleak, page-turning, unforgettable read. Existentialism at its most hardcore" - www.uvray.moonfruit.com





Top
#293289 - 12/26/07 08:46 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2054
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
 Quote:
In effect, home education is always required. Yes, children can learn things at school - the parameters of which extend well beyond academics - however, the point I am driving at is when these parents bitterly complain about the education system failing their half-illiterate offspring.


Yes, it's essential that they go hand in hand. A young child that has never been taught manners and listening skills before beginning school makes it an immeasurable task for teachers to even begin to try and instill the basic foundation of academics in a class of twenty .... which hardly matters, as the child is destined to struggle if those basics are not reinforced and built upon at home. It's a shame really.

As an aside, I don't see the point of a parent complaining about the school system, public or private. The very logical solution is to remove the child from that system and handle their education at home if it's so very bad. It's interesting when this is suggested to a parent and they openly scoff and lament that they couldn't handle being around their child that much..... very telling, that statement is. ;\)
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Bruja

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young" - Oscar Wilde

Top
#293292 - 12/26/07 08:55 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
In other words, do not complain about something you can do something about. There is a mentality that many have when it comes to “experts”. Professions such as doctors and teachers often go without being questioned by their clients.

There are some things I know that I would not do well trying to teach someone else. Mathematics, for instance, I have no idea how to teach. I can do it; but I am not sure how to tell someone else to do it. Reading and writing fall into that category. Better to let someone who is better able do that. I am not sure I would have the patience. But, education is a product. What other product would you purchase without checking the contents? None.

But, there are other things that we have to teach our son. And, there are things that we have to un-teach our son. The teachers give him homework; but it is up to us to teach our son how to accomplish tasks given to him. It is up to us to equip him with study skills, and how to prioritize his time. Also, he is taught things that are just plain stupid. There is a new law that says if a child is bullied, he or she is not allowed to hit back. They are literally told to hold their arms at their sides, not to raise their arms, even to defend themselves from a blow. We have told our son that there is no shame in walking away from a situation that is getting violent; but, if someone hits him, he is to defend himself. The school is trying to train him to turn the other cheek
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

Top
#293305 - 12/26/07 10:35 AM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Colonel Kurtz]
Happy Birthday Spike Offline


Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 13
Loc: Hells Kitchen, NY
Video games are just the latest in a long line of scapegoats. In the 1940s, comic books took the blame for juvenile delinquency. Since then, TV, music, movies, and video games have all been blamed. It seems as if something other than socialization is always at fault.

Top
#293390 - 12/26/07 05:46 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
 Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
There is a new law that says if a child is bullied, he or she is not allowed to hit back. They are literally told to hold their arms at their sides, not to raise their arms, even to defend themselves from a blow.


WHAT?!?!?

Falls off chair

And I thought the UK was bad for nannyism - what possible basis could that law have? Doesn't that completely undermine the whole notion of self defence and in effect legitimise aggression towards others? "Hey, it's okay for me to hit people mom and dad, they're not allowed to fight back". Unbelievable.
_________________________
All Hail Satan, for I shall ever be his mouth in this blessed and righteous Kingdom of the United!

"Don't you see? If the gays can get married then the whole institution of marriage will be destroyed! Society will crumble! Rivers will run red with blood! And Nazis will walk the earth riding dinosaurs!" Princess Clara, the unsung voice of the Christian right.

www.vampiretemple.com - are you one of us?

Top
#293393 - 12/26/07 05:48 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Scion]
Taubmann Offline


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Basque Country
 Originally Posted By: Scion
 Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
There is a new law that says if a child is bullied, he or she is not allowed to hit back. They are literally told to hold their arms at their sides, not to raise their arms, even to defend themselves from a blow.


WHAT?!?!?

Falls off chair

And I thought the UK was bad for nannyism - what possible basis could that law have? Doesn't that completely undermine the whole notion of self defence and in effect legitimise aggression towards others? "Hey, it's okay for me to hit people mom and dad, they're not allowed to fight back". Unbelievable.


I survived high school because I fought back like a rabid dog (and because I made some huge skinhead friends).
That law is just...plain stupid.
_________________________
“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”

Kierkegaard

Top
#293397 - 12/26/07 05:56 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Taubmann]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I will also say WHAAAAAT?

When I was a kid, there used to be a a violent little brat who liked to lash out at people when they made him mad. So, this means he sometimes lashed out at yours truly. He was very strong, but small and young, so adults who hadn't tangled with him didn't think he was a threat.

One day, I took my karate teacher's advice and training to heart---and remembered that, since he was smaller than me, wailing on him back could get me into trouble--and just held a defensive stance while he hit me on the arm with a big stick. He continued to hit me for several minutes, without either of us giving up.

Ended up with a big damn bruise on my arm.

I got better results when I learned to wear a belt around the neighborhood and take it off crack it like a whip. ;\)



_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#293401 - 12/26/07 06:04 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: TrojZyr]
Taubmann Offline


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Basque Country
Well, a long story made short.

When I was 16 I was sent to a private high school, I was small back then and a nerd. The local bullies thought I was some kind of fresh meat to beat down, I wasn´t strong at all but I defended myself however I could and fought back. They had never confronted someone who wasn´t scared of them and who tried to fight back, they were just big coward assholes who liked to attack defenseless kids. Some days later some friends of me gave me a ride to school so the bullies could see what kind of friends I had.

They never attacked or bullied me again, never. Bullies are cowards, bullied boys must defend themselves.


Edited by Taubmann (12/26/07 06:06 PM)
_________________________
“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”

Kierkegaard

Top
#293402 - 12/26/07 06:08 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: TrojZyr]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
I need to find what level that law is found. I am not sure if it is state or local. I do know that notices were sent home telling us of this, and that our child would be suspended if he fought back. They were told, in class, to either leave the situation, or hold their arms to their sides.
I checked with parents in other districts, and their children were told the exact same thing, word for word.
If it is something the schools in the state have decided upon, "law" may be too strong a word. But, this IS New Jersey. They haven't met a law they don't like around here...common sense be damned!
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

Top
#293443 - 12/26/07 08:06 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
RottenBonnie Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 546
Loc: The West Coast, USA
 Originally Posted By: Dr_Shaadriq_Aliz
What I am saying is that parents are handing over responsibility to the education system. Education ultimately begins and ends with the parents themselves.


Well said! And with few words too, you are a poet indeed, sir.

I think my initial lament had to do more with the general lack of responsibility that parents take not only for their children, but also for their own actions. Poetaster is right, I don't know that in this situation the parents made bad decisions. But I do know that it is far too common for people not to take responsibility for their own actions, and they pass it on to their children like a genetic mutation.
_________________________
"The smartest, most passionate, most beautiful women I've met have been Satanists. I don't mean "beautiful on the inside where it really counts;" I mean gorgeous, vibrant, curvy women." Blanche Barton

"There's no such thing as too many books." Poetaster

Top
#293446 - 12/26/07 08:21 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: Storm]
ingo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 31
Loc: Iceland
It's seems that many children and teens are simply too stupid to realize that actions have consequences.

But noone is willing to say; "I'm just that stupid, I had no idea that breaking her back and choking her would be harmful to her".
But that is the sad truth...

Stories like this one allways make me sad, not because someone died or because they commited a crime, but because it shows how dumb and intellectually numb the majority of the world is.
_________________________
when people say that god talked to them, I always wonder how that's different from the the son of Sam, and why they aren't medicated....

Top
#293468 - 12/26/07 09:06 PM Re: Children Actually are Killing Due to Video Game Play [Re: ingo]
Adversaryan Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Seattle WA
LMAO. did everyone skip how to teach reality?
_________________________
Nothing is absolute!! ~me~

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >


Forum Stats
12116 Members
73 Forums
43872 Topics
405548 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements