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#292623 - 12/22/07 10:33 PM Motorcycle Clubs
Goat Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Central California
I've been wondering how satanists feel about clubs in general, and motorcycle clubs specifically.

I have an intense desire to join a motorcycle club (a particular club, mind you), and I've been wondering how "satanic" it would or would not be for me to do so.

I understand satanists by nature are not joiners, and I am normally not either... But a motorcycle club is an entirely different animal than most other clubs/activities one could join.

I don't believe my desire to be a member of this club is an indication of the herd mentality creeping in. On the contrary, I think affiliating myself with like minded brothers in order to work together toward specific common purposes can help each of us attain our goals more effectively, which seems totally satanic to me.

I was curious if anyone here has ever had any exposure to motorcycle clubs (1%er clubs and their support clubs) and if so, what input you might have. Thanks.


Edited by Goat (12/22/07 10:41 PM)
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#292627 - 12/22/07 10:52 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
TheNaturalForce Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 511
Loc: The Vibrant Garden
I've never been one to join clubs. Although I have on occasion seen a few car shows. It can be fun to take a look at the restored classics and do a time warp. I can see the benefits of such clubs as it would bring together people with the same interests.
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#292630 - 12/22/07 11:00 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: TheNaturalForce]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
As long as whatever clubs you are joining are not breaking the laws, then I can't see there being a single issue. If it is something you would enjoy, go for it!

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#292650 - 12/23/07 02:12 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: TheDegenerate]
AztecRed Offline


Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Oklahoma
Herd mentality only applies when you're joining a herd as a result of an insecurity of some sort. If you're joining a club because it's actually going to benefit you in some way outside of "I just want to belong", then I see nothing unsatanic about it.

I've been a member of a few car clubs and from my own personal experience, I can say that even in the "herd" I still felt like an outsider. A lot of car clubs are as bad as churches with the politics and rivalries. I stayed away from those aspects and just enjoyed the discounted parts and track days.
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#292654 - 12/23/07 02:45 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
It's not a secret that most 1% and their support clubs are involved in criminal activities. What kind of club are you talking about actually?
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#292657 - 12/23/07 03:09 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Why not just do what is best for you?

If you need "brothers" to run around with and you enjoy the feeling of acceptance, just do it. It should be your choice.

I've ridden with a motorcycle club before but I'd never do what ever it is people do to become a member. I like to ride and get what I want from just doing that with no need for brotherhood, acceptance or identity.

Are you having a tough time making this decision on your own?

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#292671 - 12/23/07 03:49 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
Lord Xolothi Offline


Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 38
Loc: Italia
Well
The Satanism is based on the free choise and on the personal freedom,but also on the personal responsability.
You know what do you want do it,nobody know best of you the answer at this question,if you ardently desire to join in an Motorcycle Club,well,DO IT
The Satanists for nature are not joiners,this is relative.In some istances the Satanist can decide to join in an group of whatever sort or club or other like means for accomplish their personal scopes.
Now the true question which you must to give to yourself is:
Because i want to join in this Club?
What are my personal Objective?
Joining in this Club I can really accomplish my desire
And in especially way:
It this case,the end justify really the means?
You must evalutate also if the game is worth the candle.
The choices is yours

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#292682 - 12/23/07 05:47 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
 Originally Posted By: Goat
I was curious if anyone here has ever had any exposure to motorcycle clubs (1%er clubs and their support clubs) and if so, what input you might have. Thanks.


Simply being a "Known Associate" or a "Hang Around" the Police view you to be in collusion. Your name will be found on the Police "Gang List" and you'll be treated as a criminal. Weather you are or not!

The two major clubs in California are still at war with each other. People are still being murdered. These clubs are still active in the drug trade. This is all very attractive to the young street tough asshole. If you want this kind of association, feel free.

Not all members are criminals, but plenty are. You'll be painted with those same colors. All for a vest.





Edited by VonDeth (12/23/07 10:40 AM)

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#292685 - 12/23/07 06:16 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Colonel Kurtz]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: VonDeth
The two major clubs in California are still at war with each other.


We have had the same thing going on over here some years ago. At the height of the escalating event known as the "biker war" one group tried to take out the headquarters of the other with a rocket launcher. This happened while there was some sort of party going on, but by sheer luck the damage was minimal.

But afterwards a lot of those "civilians" present there were in shock because they somehow thought that not being criminals or members would make them immune to anything that was going on.

These days police seems to be using the "Al Capone" method in getting to criminals who belong to motorcycle clubs, so one should probably also factor in the added attention of the IRS when joining up. Which of course is no problem if you always pay your taxes and never make any mistakes when filing. Using lesser magic to get a really good deal on a car or a new TV may suddenly look like something else if people you associate with are known to launder drug money.
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#292695 - 12/23/07 08:00 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
Leo_V Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 517
I have always felt that riding in a group is safer because a group of bikes is more visible than one.

Simple logic.

Keep in mind that you must ride as an individual for your own protection anyway, group or not.

I will ride with friends or veteran groups on certain holidays or parades but never be a "vest wearer" again.

It is also my opinion that motorcycle clubs aren't different from other clubs, as you have said.

Care to share the name of this particular club?
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#292721 - 12/23/07 10:00 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I like your avatar.

Groups and clubs can allow us to delve deeper into certain topics or hobbies than we could by ourselves. Other people can teach us more about a given subject, and can help us to hone our skills--and we, in turn, can do that for others, and this can provide a profound sense of satisfaction.

I can't even ride a bike, so motorcycles are out for me. (Unless they have a motorcycle with training wheels ;\) ).

You must ensure that the club you are joining is not a criminal organization, and that you are not going to arouse the suspicions or prejudices--warranted or unwarranted--of the authorities or other clubs.
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#292733 - 12/23/07 10:52 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: TrojZyr]
HiddenHorror Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 54
Loc: USA
I own a bike, and just by owning a Harley I am more or less seen as a "Biker Gang" member. I don't have any affiliations with any riders groups, but I do ride for fun and I participate in some of the charity rides.

I guess my point, that I've taken such a roundabout way to getting to is...

You don't have to be an actual member of a gang to be pegged as one. Although it will bring back a good deal of trouble from the authorities and the general population, the image is classic lesser magic. You just have to accept the stigma for enjoying the feeling of freedom and power only a bike can provide.
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#292735 - 12/23/07 10:54 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: verszou]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
These days police seems to be using the "Al Capone" method in getting to criminals who belong to motorcycle clubs...

Because of TV exposure, juries tend to be sympathetic to Bikers. At least to the whole "Criminal Organization" thing. I have plenty of experience with 1% MC'S or "Outlaw Bikers". These clubs are top heavy with criminals, but the mob, it's not.

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#292737 - 12/23/07 11:01 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Colonel Kurtz]
Goat Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Central California
Thank you all for your terrific feedback.

Phosis: Frequently members of motorcycle clubs do break the law, but the way I see it is I'm only responsible for my own actions (not those of anyone else), and as long as my actions are in line with my values, I'm ok.

Aztec Red: I'm really glad to hear you say that. That's how I have felt, but was hoping to find out if other satanists agree with that view point, or if my viewpoint was predominantly seen as "unsatanic."

x9x: I don't think it's accurate to say "most 1% clubs and their support clubs are involved in criminal activities," anymore than it's accurate to say "it's no secret satanists participate in animal sacrafice and satanic ritual abuse."

Surely there are wierdos and wackos who call theirselves satanists who probably do all sorts of things, but anyone who really knows anything about Satanism knows that's not an accurate description of the CoS or most people who consider theirselves Satanists. I've found that's very similar (to a lesser extent) with motorcycle clubs.

Like most people, I had some pretty crazy misconceptions about MC's before I became a "known associate" of the club I eventually propsected for and became a member of. As a known associate, I got to know the club (as much as an outsider can) and it's members and realized they are nothing like what I had heard/read/previously thought. Then, when I became a member myself, they were very clear about the rules. They told me upfront...

1. We will never ask you to do anything that jeapordizes you legally, financially, or jeapordizes your family or your relationship with your family.
2. You will not consume any drugs that you cannot grow yourself and smoke. If you're caught, you're out in bad standing. They said that goes for your old lady also. Her drug use can get you thrown out of the club also. They were very serious and very strict about this rule. I was really impressed with that.

Granted, some clubs are still involved in criminal activities, and many members are involved in criminal activities, but some of the clubs have really smartened up and have realized that in order to survive, they must obey the law (as much as possible) and they must contribute something positive to their communities. Infact, most serious motorcycle clubs (like red and white clubs and red and gold clubs and their support clubs) are very polite when they encounter members of the larger public. I was in a bar last weekend and there was a club there I had never seen before. One of the members walked past where I was seated and stepped on my foot as he walked by. He abruptly stopped and turned around (which put me on guard because this club was unknown to me) and in a very sincere tone he apologized. He did that because it's important to him the public generally has a positive image in mind when they hear of or think of their club. Essentially the clubs have almost learned they have to practice lesser magic, to a much lesser extent, in order to change perceptions of them in their communities in order to survive.

RandomStranger: No, I'm not having a difficult time making this decision. My decision has been made. I'm just really curious what other satanists have to say on the topic. Joining this message board is really my first contact with other "serious" satanists, and while I make and am responsible for my own decisions, it doesn't hurt to hear input from people you trust/respect while making your decisions. Granted I don't know anyone of you, let alone know you well enough to really trust you, but I still value the input, and am intelligent enough to evaluate the merits of the input myself without necessarily having to really trust you. The fact that you are satanists is enough to initially earn quite a bit of respect from me and my trust that you are going to give me sincere feedback, or none at all, so I'm fortunate to receive any feedback any of you feel inclined to provide.

VonDeth and verszou: Yes, the Ricco laws are something to consider. In my opinion they are bullshit and unconstitutional, yet they exist and are something that must be delt with. I don't think I would ever be in danger of a ricco prosecution though, because those laws are normally used to bring down leaders of organizations and key players, and I can't imagine I would be either in a MC. Not because I don't have leadership skills/qualities or because I wouldn't step up if I were needed, but because even in MC's those positions are esteamed and really political and I'm not much of a politician.

I've been trying hard to work on my political skills because I see that as my only weakness when engaging in lesser magic, but even as I improve those skills I find engaging in politics to be very distasteful.

When it comes to being "painted with those same colors," I really don't care what people think of me (unless ofcourse the person being discussed is a target of lesser magic). I do my own thing in my own time regardless of what anyone thinks of me. This causes alot of the sheep to dislike me but some people recognize the strength and indpendence that I posess and view them as admirable qualities. Regardless of what they think, people's perception of me is not one of my motivators.

There are three main motivators in my life...

1. Squeezing every drop of pleasure out of my life as possible before it ends.
2. Increasing my position in the world as much as I can, while I still can.
3. Protecting and serving the interests/needs of myself, and those I love/care about.

Leo_V: Unfortunately I don't think it's appropriate to drop club names around, especially in a pseudo-anonymous forum, so I'd rather not, and I hope that doesn't seem offensive to you. I will tell you the club I'm interested in joining is not a "territorial" club, they are nationwide, and are one of the oldest, most well known clubs in existance. That much info will probably tell you exactly who it is if you know anything about MC's, lol.

One of the things that I love about motorcycle clubs is they very satanic in many ways, they just don't realize it. I really enjoy associating, socializing, and working cooperatively with people who share my interests, my values, and my ideas.

In my opinion the only thing better than being a member of a motorcycle club and being a satanist would be to be a member of a satanic motorcycle club, lol. Yeah I know, that'll be the day.

Thank you all for your valuable feedback. I'm really glad I joined this discussion forum.


Edited by Goat (12/23/07 11:19 AM)
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt

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#292738 - 12/23/07 11:09 AM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Colonel Kurtz]
London Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 965
Loc: The Inmost Dens
 Quote:
Simply being a "Known Associate" or a "Hang Around" the Police view you to be in collusion. Your name will be found on the Police "Gang List" and you'll be treated as a criminal. Weather you are or not!


Yes, this is not to be underestimated. I have a neighbor who is currently experiencing police harassment due to the fact that he lives next to a Bandido and rides motorcycles. He is the furthest thing from a trouble-maker possible, but the local Sheriffs are convinced he is a Bandido as well and do eveything possible to make life Hell for him.
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