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#292770 - 12/23/07 12:19 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Svengali]
Goat Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Central California
>>>How things "should" or "ought to" be don't mean shit.

--->As a young man, I had to learn that lesson the hard way, and I can assure you, it wasn't an easy lesson for me to learn (I can be pretty dam stubborn, sometimes that's good for me, in this case it wasn't, lol).

I totally agree with that statement, and I have found MC's understand that as well. Generally speaking, they also believe in stratification and survival of the fittest/smartest, even though they don't use those terms like you or I would.
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt

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#292772 - 12/23/07 12:23 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Goat
Lol. Yes I was not worried about having to choose between the two, but your comments do bring up an interesting question.

>>>the CoS would not approve of any kind of criminal behaviour

--->It's my understanding the CoS doesn't sanction or choose to not sanction any kind of specific behavior, other than to provide general guidelines about the way members should typically act (which is very general and certainly doesn't cover all, or even most situations). Am I incorrect about this?

I have always pictured the CoS specifically, and satanists generally, as people who try hard to obey the law when they can, willing to work to change bad laws if the situation called for it, but were willing to break the law if necessary when the law conflicted with a satanists own personal values.

Is this not an accurate description of the perspective of a good number of satanists? I know the law and obeying the law as much as possible is important to satanists, as it is to me... But I am an individual first and a member of my community second, and when it comes down right down to it I serve myself first, and I always thought most/many satanists had a similar point of view, but my access to other satanists has been very limited so I'm interested in learning how you all feel about this.


You are INCORRECT.

The Church of Satan does NOT tolerate or condone ILLEGAL activity.

There is NO middle ground on this.

Splitting hairs on this issue is a fast-track to having your account deleted.

You asked if belonging to a criminal or quasi-criminal organization is compatible with Satanism and the Church of Satan.

The answer is NO.

They are NOT compatible.

Seek mix-and match symbols and fashion statements elsewhere.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#292773 - 12/23/07 12:24 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Svengali]
Goat Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Central California
>>>What you imagine to be association for self-preservation can be self-defeating.

--->I think I understand the point you're making, and I agree with it.

My goals for joining though really aren't self-preservation, although in a pinch, that could be an added benefit, it isn't something I expect. I expect to have to be able to take care of myself, and so far I've done a pretty good job of it.
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt

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#292774 - 12/23/07 12:24 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
 Quote:
but were willing to break the law if necessary when the law conflicted with a satanists own personal values.


No.
_________________________
Hell of All Hells

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#292775 - 12/23/07 12:24 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
IRI Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Canada
Stereotypical criminal tendencies aside, as a Satanist you must put your own survival first, and that of course means taking every step possible to avoid any activity (even by association) that would be detrimental to your survival (and freedom).

Having satisfied that, you would do well to always keep in mind that any relationship (whether via a club or a one-on-one situation) must be of mutual benefit to both parties. If only one benefits, it is not a relationship and will be rather short lived. Do what you will to further your own agenda but realize that you must either contribute or give the appearance of contribution if you intend to use the relationship as a resource of personal indulgence.

When you join any group, as a Satanist you join to further your own agenda and as a side benefit, the group will typically benefit. However, once your agenda has been satisfied, you tip your hat, take your bow and graciously exit.

IRI
_________________________
"Sheep to the right, Goats to the left"

"Where do people in Hell tell each other to go?"

"If we are all gods children, why is Christ so special?"

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#292776 - 12/23/07 12:26 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Goat
>>>What you imagine to be association for self-preservation can be self-defeating.

--->I think I understand the point you're making, and I agree with it.

My goals for joining though really aren't self-preservation, although in a pinch, that could be an added benefit, it isn't something I expect. I expect to have to be able to take care of myself, and so far I've done a pretty good job of it.


So basically you are looking for a "tough guy" image? Or an identity prop?

Why not do it on your own.

Why people are impressed with this idiotic bovine gregarious subculture is beyond me.

Biker culture is stupid and aesthetically bankrupt.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#292777 - 12/23/07 12:27 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Svengali]
Goat Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Central California
>>>Splitting hairs on this issue is a fast-track to having your account deleted.

--->I'm certainly not trying to split hairs. Simply inquiring about your perspective, and if someone in a position to do cares to respond, the position of the CoS.

Thank you for your direct response to my question.
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt

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#292778 - 12/23/07 12:28 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
I just told you the position of the CoS.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#292779 - 12/23/07 12:29 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
Let's make this simple.

Getting together with a bunch of grannies on the weekend to ride motorcycles is one thing, but if you associate with anyone who could in some way be affiliated with GANG activities, then you are a moron and deserve whatever shit you get into.
_________________________
Hell of All Hells

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#292780 - 12/23/07 12:30 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: IRI]
Goat Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Central California
Thank you Iri, I think that is very good advice and it's well taken.
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt

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#292781 - 12/23/07 12:30 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Svengali]
Goat Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Central California
Indeed. Thank you.
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt

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#292783 - 12/23/07 12:32 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Goat]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6359
 Originally Posted By: Goat
Simply inquiring about your perspective, and if someone in a position to do cares to respond, the position of the CoS.


Please note the words "CoS Magister" under Magister Svengali's screenname.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#292789 - 12/23/07 12:38 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Svengali]
Goat Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Central California
No, I have nothing to prove to anyone.

That sounds like it might be another stereotype. As such, it might applicable to many bikers, but not to me, because I don't care what most people think of me.

I understand that position is contrary to being successful at lesser magic, and I haven't worked that out yet. The truth is, unless I have found myself to care or respect a person, I really don't care what they think of me.

>>>Biker culture is stupid and aesthetically bankrupt.

--->I do understand why you feel that way. For me it is aesthetically pleasing in many ways, and while there are frequently occasions where I come across things that I dont find pleasing, most of it is at least compatible with, and usually completely in line with who I've become personally as a satanist.

I don't expect you to be able to understand that without my going into tiresome (tiresome for you, not for me, lol) detail, or without you having walked where I have walked, and it doesn't bother me at all if we don't agree on everything, all the time, and I take no offense to the fact there are probably many ways in which we see things differently.

I view that as the real strength of the satanic community and the true weekness of the herd.
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt

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#292791 - 12/23/07 12:40 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: LKRice]
Goat Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Central California
I did take note, even before I said that. My implication was toward my intent in making the inquiry, not directed at the answsers received.

Thank you.
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt

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#292795 - 12/23/07 12:49 PM Re: Motorcycle Clubs [Re: Svengali]
Goat Offline


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Central California
>>>Seek mix-and match symbols and fashion statements elsewhere.

--->Not to worry, my intent to join a motorcycle club and my desire to associate with fellow satanists have nothing to do with symbols and/or fashion statments.

I do enjoy symbols, but that is a deeply personal thing, and I wouldn't expect those symbols to mean anything to anyone else but me.

And I truly have no use for fashion statements.
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt

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