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#294647 - 12/30/07 04:07 PM Greater Magic - question
LadyVixen Offline


Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 8
Hey all, am trying to give it a go regarding greater magic. But I do have a problem. I live in a dorm with 3 other girls and setting up an altar would be impossible. Also some of the materials that LaVey described would be nearly impossible for me to get. Sorry if it sounds like I'm complaining.

I'm asking the more experienced magician if it is possible to still indulge in greater magic without all the materials LaVey described in TSB, as long as the basics are followed?

Thanks in advance.

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#294649 - 12/30/07 04:19 PM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: LadyVixen]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
A ritual is like a performance, a play. How good a performance can you put on without a whole lot of props? Just think it through. You don't have to have anything, just collect what you can, find a private area and see what you can do with it.


Edited by Jack_Lantern (12/30/07 04:21 PM)
Edit Reason: Minor grammer correction
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#294651 - 12/30/07 04:22 PM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: LadyVixen]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8274
Yes.
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#294661 - 12/30/07 05:13 PM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: Phineas]
LadyVixen Offline


Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 8
Thank you Jack_Lantern and Magister Phineas.


Edited by LadyVixen (12/30/07 05:13 PM)

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#294742 - 12/30/07 11:18 PM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: LadyVixen]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Well, and not only do you need all of the tools, necessarily, remember that you don't even necessarily need to use your dorm room. I remember my campus had some nice secluded wooded areas, for example. However, this being said, don't do anything stupid, risky (since campus police or others may not take kindly to somebody chanting in the lounge, on the lawn, or in the chapel) or illegal! Use your best sense, and don't get into trouble.

I've only ritualized in the comfort of my own room at home, or in the homes of fellow Satanists, just to be safe and secure.

But, in any case, the point remains, your rituals can be whatever you need them to be.
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#294753 - 12/31/07 12:09 AM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: LadyVixen]
Danny Mc. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2143
Loc: Taxationland
 Quote:
I'm asking the more experienced magician if it is possible to still indulge in greater magic without all the materials LaVey described in TSB, as long as the basics are followed?


Being I have more than 20 years experience in such matters, I think there's a few questions you should ask yourself.

1. Are you emotionally passionate towards this goal?

2. Is the results of ritual something you are prepared to live with?

3. Can you live without or make an effective change without using Greater Magic?

Back to your question...

My answer is yes. If you have enough emotional passion for your desired outcome then you can effect a change. But I should warn you against half hearted attempts. If you call upon the darkness with an half hearted attempt and are not prepared for outcomes other than your desired goal it may cost you. But if you are sure of what you want and truly desire the outcome; Greater Magic is a very powerful tool.

I have used Greater Magic with great affect, by just sitting alone in the dark. Yes, it is possible and it's all up to you. Do you want to use it? It's there, but it's up to you to use it.

I hope this helps. H.S.!
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#294763 - 12/31/07 03:28 AM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: LadyVixen]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10580
Loc: England
I consider Sigil Magic one of the most simple yet effective forms of greater magic.

Also often referred to as pop magic or chaos magic, I prefer sigil magic since that seems to best describe it in its employment of symbols through which we can focus the will.

Quick, simple and, I have found, powerfully effective.

Discriminate with keenness and eliminate the bullshit and you will find much regarding this matter on the net.

There is more than one way to wash a baby's bottom.




Edited by Dr_Shaadriq_Aliz (12/31/07 03:33 AM)
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#294772 - 12/31/07 06:04 AM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Taubmann Offline


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Basque Country
 Originally Posted By: Dr_Shaadriq_Aliz
I consider Sigil Magic one of the most simple yet effective forms of greater magic.

Also often referred to as pop magic or chaos magic, I prefer sigil magic since that seems to best describe it in its employment of symbols through which we can focus the will.

Quick, simple and, I have found, powerfully effective.

Discriminate with keenness and eliminate the bullshit and you will find much regarding this matter on the net.

There is more than one way to wash a baby's bottom.




And charging a sigil may be a pretty pleasant experience too...

But, yes, sigil techniques are easy to learn and can be very usefull, I have also used other mnemotechnic tools to improve their results and it´s worked pretty well.


Edited by Taubmann (12/31/07 06:05 AM)
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#296147 - 01/06/08 06:15 PM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: Taubmann]
Atom Offline


Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Holland
Don't waste your time with altars or any ingredients other then what's already within yourself. See the outcome before proceeding.

May it be love, pain or sorrow, how can one invoke it without comprehending the words feeling.

Don't rely on items you have no control about. May it be a cross, sigil, altar or a cup of blood, it just represents a physical state of matter with a shape and whatever meaning you give it or decide to do with it is entirelly up to you.

And if you don't know any other way of achieving your desire, never use recepies without knowledge of the ingredients and why they need to be used in first place.
_________________________
"Cooked in the ovens of creation, by the recipe of unknown, we belong to it as it belongs to us. The knowledge is within you, try not to make a fool out of yourself by denying it's existence."

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#296155 - 01/06/08 06:46 PM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: LadyVixen]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: LadyVixen
Hey all, am trying to give it a go regarding greater magic. But I do have a problem. I live in a dorm with 3 other girls and setting up an altar would be impossible.

No it's not. An altar doesn't have to be a permanent set-up. Take out the tools, do what you got to do when you have the room to yourself (and your room mates know), then put away your stuff when you're done. Or just find a different private place entirely. You think the only people who practice greater magic are people without roommates?

 Originally Posted By: LadyVixen
Also some of the materials that LaVey described would be nearly impossible for me to get.

No, they aren't. I wrote an article last year on just how simple this is, in issue #2 of The Ninth Gate. If you think this is hard, you've obviously never read another "spell book" in your life. The standard Satanic ritual in The Satanic Bible is a cakewalk compared to the needless scavenger hunts that other occult books would have you go through.

Re-read the list of tools, paying particular attention what what is "only necessary for group rituals". Is it REALLY that hard to draw a baphomet to hang on the wall, burn a couple of black candles, and just...GO with it?

 Originally Posted By: LadyVixen
I'm asking the more experienced magician if it is possible to still indulge in greater magic without all the materials LaVey described in TSB, as long as the basics are followed?


"A ritual area doesn't need to be elaborate, dressed up with all the items I mention in The Satanic Bible. For some secretly timid types, that's a convenient excuse -- 'Well, I can't find a gong,' or 'I don't know how to pronounce the Enochian right.' I wrote the basic ritual framework so that anyone brave enough could try their hand at magic right away. [...] I wrote my books containing simple, accessible instructions, with a minimum of equipment so people can get the feeling of performing Greater Magic and getting results."
- Anton LaVey, as quoted in Magistra Blanche Barton's book Church of Satan
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#296159 - 01/06/08 06:56 PM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: Atom]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: Atom
Don't waste your time with altars or any ingredients other then what's already within yourself. See the outcome before proceeding.

In my experience, people who say this are usually too disorganized and undisciplined to gather tools in the first place. It's true that the power and focus ultimately comes from within, but to throw away the ritual tools is like saying that a musician should never listen to anybody else's work, learn music theory, nor be discerning about instrument quality, for the sake of "art".

While Satanic rituals are fully customizable, this isn't an "anything goes, without exception" experience. There are still parameters to make an effective ritual: a distinct beginning and end, an establishment of an "intellectual decompression" environment, and the other key factors (desire, balance factor, etc.) listed in The Satanic Bible.

Surely, you've read the second half of that book?
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#296172 - 01/06/08 07:59 PM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: Bill_M]
Atom Offline


Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Holland
Yes Bill, i've read the book. I've read many books concerning many cults and occults, magic, chants and even qur'an. One can never know too much unless proven otherwise.
However, they were just books written by people and their knowledge at that time. May it be limited or not, one can never judge the autor and his writings with utmost certainty of truth.

A smith can forge a weapon with the presence of fire, blanket, an anvil and a hammer. Does he really need a blueprint to forge it to his desire? Or is his knowledge enough to fulfill his needs.

In my experience, people that have to rely on simple items and ingredients as instructed with a predecided value of meaning attached to it, lack the knowledge and ability to grasp the entire picture of magic within it.
Unless ofcourse i want to be a good cook or an alchemist and brew a fertile potion, i would definatelly need some scarce ingredients, some tools and a recipe if the knowledge isn't there.

Ofcourse to start with things like magic you need to rely on others experience and work, follow the path untill you know where you going and why you going there in first place. It's not because you were told thus or read so, it's because you want to.

You could use a simple spoon, give it a meaning other then it was designed for and value it as an extension of yourself. If there is just desire, all you're missing is a cup of soupe.Add will and 'faith' to that desire and the spoon will be what you want it to be, a tool, your sigil or just a special spoon. To others it will remain just a spoon.

The point is Bill, if others use the tools and ingredients specified in a recipe, it doesn't mean you always need them. They may help you to strengten your will but if you already have it, the tools are just obsolete.
_________________________
"Cooked in the ovens of creation, by the recipe of unknown, we belong to it as it belongs to us. The knowledge is within you, try not to make a fool out of yourself by denying it's existence."

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#296194 - 01/06/08 10:39 PM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: Atom]
Adveser Offline


Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 429
Loc: California
What people don't seem to realise and I have no idea why, since it has been repeated ad nauseum is that a ritual can be any damn thing you want it to be. Period. Doktor LaVey's rituals are a starting place and the rituals he used personally. If you wanna hang up a poster of a porn star and ask he advice on how to get more chicks, do it if it works. The answer is to do what gets you results.

Edit: just read your post Bill and I must say that it should go without saying that one would do a ritual for the sake of it's results which is that you must be able to muster up some kind of emotion to release or harness and of course it must be fantastical in nature to effectively fool you into believing in it. But as far as "what to use" I absolutely think it should be the thing that works the best for each of us. Furthermore, one would have to take all the Satan stuff quite literally to believe they must do it that specific way for it to work.


Edited by Adveser (01/06/08 10:44 PM)

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#296196 - 01/06/08 10:47 PM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: Atom]
Mr Avarice Offline



Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 991
Loc: Scandinavia
 Quote:
A smith can forge a weapon with the presence of fire, blanket, an anvil and a hammer. Does he really need a blueprint to forge it to his desire? Or is his knowledge enough to fulfill his needs.

Should he not have basic training before starting to hammer away on the anvil. Never mind some metal. ;\)

And where is your introduction? I can't find it anywhere...

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#296208 - 01/07/08 12:02 AM Re: Greater Magic - question [Re: Atom]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
A smith can forge a weapon with the presence of fire, blanket, an anvil and a hammer. Does he really need a blueprint to forge it to his desire? Or is his knowledge enough to fulfill his needs.


I'm a smith (silversmith, goldsmith, platinumsmith, and have dabbled in a bit of blacksmithing). I plan out every hammer stroke, and sometimes even mark metal in specific places with a marker, so in effect I do use a blueprint. Knowledge is a starting place. Trial & error, further study, and professional networking allow me to create new and more intricate designs.

I don't feel like your analogy accounts for the intricacies of smithing, there are many ways and techniques one can use to move and form metal. While I could probably anneal metal with a fire I would much rather use my torch and more than one hammer would be nice. ;\)
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