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#299557 - 01/19/08 04:45 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: hellbent666]
Drakein Offline


Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 62
I understand what you're trying to tell. But you're also pretty much saying that murderers have it easy in prison, or even have status.
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Gather around me, Oh! ye death-defiant, and the earth itself shall be thine, to have and to hold!

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#299562 - 01/19/08 05:31 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: hellbent666]
Never Offline


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 187
Loc: Skien, Norway
Hellbent666

Seeing as you were cought with drugs, for me it would not be logical at all in prison. Maybe a fine, in worst case some road building or something.
But what you`re saying about the condition in the prisons in USA; it`s not like that everywhere. I wrote in an earlier post about how it is when you`re in prison in Norway, and probably in some other countries around here, to.

I think rapists and pedphiles should get fried. With NO POSSIBLE EXCUSE. Do that and you WILL die.
Spending a life in a prison might be worse, but it will not scare those who are commiting/thinking about commiting those crimes as much as instant death would.
I somewhat envy you for living in America - this might be because of the twisted look I get on the world through the news and papers of an american-loving society, but it seems to me that you have a gouvernement that ain`t just doing what will get them re-elected, but rather what society benefits from! Here in Norway, you cannot do anything that`s the slightest different from the commonly accepted ways before you`re corrupt, insane with power or something something!
Back on topic - you also said that one should decide ones own punishment.
This would`ve worked if everyone was pleasant, regretting induviduals that wanted no more than to repay their newly aquired debt to society as fast as possible so that they could go back to live their peacefull life with two cars, 2,7 somewhat symetrical kids and a dog which fight criminality at night. But it`s not. People, when commiting crimes, most of the times feel they are justified.
We NEED a strong gouvernement to redeem ourself - we need to be kept away from those who have done us wrong, `cause noone will benefit from having them around to do it again.
I`m realy for the penality of death! Realy! If you have planned and executed a murder - fry. If you rape someone, anyone - fry.
If you perform pedophilia - fry. Simple as that!
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Where I lay my head is home

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#299575 - 01/19/08 08:51 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: DickSteele]
ShadowDragon Offline



Registered: 03/30/07
Posts: 327
Loc: Where I have Always Been
I'm going to be brutally honest with the way I see it. Personally I think it's all this "Humane" Bullshit. Getting a little slap on the wrist versus having a punishment that would make someone highly think twice before committing any crimes such as murder, armed robbery, rape, etc.

If you've ever noticed how the "human right activists" probably react to say the electric chair. It has pretty much in almost all the States been declared "inhumane".

Then you look at how all the prisons are actually overcrowded (majority wise that is.) Apparently if the price was far higher then the crime is worth, I imagine the crap load of criminals would decrease immensely. This all starts with that "humane" punishment bullshit pretty much. It's painfully obvious it's not working. Hell some have a better life in prison then in the real world. Makes you wonder, WTF is up with that?

Though I doubt we'll ever see the "Humane" treatment and "punishment" go away, and of course there will always be that one idiot, regardless what the punishment would be.
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Hail Satan!
Shadow

To Light a Candle,is to Cast a Shadow.

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#299583 - 01/19/08 09:52 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: hellbent666]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Unfortunately, the victims and their families are likely not qualified to be dealing appropriate punishment. Maybe in an anarchist society something like this would make sense, but there is a reason a judicial system exists, and that is why. You seem to have some conoluted, mixed up ideas about "how things should work" and it seems ironic coming from a former criminal. (and I would swear you have mentioned that AT LEAST once in every one of your thirty or so posts, even when it has nothing to do with the subject at hand...what up with that?)

Your end statement is yet another eye-rolling self-victimization. Many people here express many opinions that are questioned, or generally unliked, and are given way harsher treatment for doing so. I think everyone has been perhaps TOO kind, considering you called everyone here "a prick" no more then five posts before this one.

Since your post is about NOT taking revenge, and NOT believing in "eye for an eye" which is stated VERY CLEARLY in The Satanic Bible as qualities to have, how would you expect any other kind of reacion? Don't ask a bunch of Satanists if they agree when you decide that these Satanic values are not for you.

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#299585 - 01/19/08 09:56 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: DickSteele]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1677
Loc: Denmark
Having serial killers on the street is an aberration that both their victims and in the end the entire community have to pay for, so accidentally executing an innocent person, even though I think it's tragic, is a price that a community has to pay to preserve itself and punish those who are destroying it.

I believe that criminals sentenced to death could be put to use by serving as replacement for the animal testing which so widely practiced all over the world.

There has been a lot a pressure on the pharmaceutical industry to stop animal testing, and they did, most of them, but very little pressure has been applied to the scientific research facilities. In science animals are used as a replacement for the real thing the human, they are used as only a model organism with the human organism in mind. So why not use the real thing in the case of criminals that are beyond rehabilitation?

I think that the medical industry would benefit greatly from this.

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#299595 - 01/19/08 10:19 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: hellbent666]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
The prison system is a machine. Its mission is far removed from what probably was its original purpose. Even that could be debated.

The doors of prisons all over the world are flung open for the redeemers. Capital punishment can't be that pressing when you have been forgiven by the ultimate judge and jury.

Most criminals were found with the cookies in there mouths, not just their hands in the jar. Most are guilty. The exception should not prevent the rule.

The other topic!

Never mistake self defense for revenge, but always remember the law allows a reasonable use of force, which to defend yourself.

When exacting revenge, Ill use all means to satisfy myself, and keep myself from being imprisoned. Ill spread rumors and gossip about you. If I have the means, you will lose your job. If I can, Ill sleep with your wife. I know a witch or two that will ruin your life.

Im not bound by ethics.

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#299596 - 01/19/08 10:23 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: hellbent666]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
This is an environment where you are supposed to give your opnions!



Which is what we did.

Your above post shows that you are intelligent.
That, combined with the fact that you began this thread with a quote from Gandhi, which was one of the cornerstones of a philosophy that is arguably an antithesis to Satanism indicates that you should not be surprised at the responses you have received...respectfully, for the most part, I might add. Strong disagreement obviously causes you some type of pain.

To knowing do something that will cause you pain...fairly consistently...makes one a...it's on the tip of my tongue...well, maybe it will come to me later. ;\)


I may have missed something; but, this is a board for Satanists...not "free thinkers".

If you had left the last paragraph out, this would have been a decent post.
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#299597 - 01/19/08 10:28 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: LightAngel]
Max Faust Offline
Banned

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 419
Loc: Ultima Thule
Well I don't support any "victim" mentality no matter how real. If you and your clan don't have the power to take revenge, you deserve to become extinct. No fucking "society" will ever change that (except for to the worse). Every such boo-hoo story fills me with disgust. Revenge it or shut up. I'ts nobody else's business.

That act which they call "death penalty" is little but a ritual sacrifice of evil so that every spectator can feel good and empowered by knowing that they are now a part of the good herd, unlike that bastard which just fried, who is evil.

Death penalty is the shivering excitement of simpletons.

It doesn't solve any problem. It's outlandishly expensive. It has no preventional effect on "crime" as such (judging from the countries that are practicing it). It only serves the function of invoking the idea of a powerful state that can decide on life and death.

However, if you are a person who was wronged, I totally think that your "crime of passion" should be let off easy. Say 2-3 years only for really justified murder, of the kind that everybody will be able to identify with in a "hell yeah!" manner.

But if you have no such powers or passions, then it is really not the business of "society" to deal with this. There is a severe lack of predators to tax the surviveability of mankind.

Kill your enemy! Yes I agree. But don't submit to any lame ass idea of a social structure which is supposed to carry out justice, because they just won't. The power you submit to them through the religious act of praising their human sacrifices will only empower them to fuck YOU next time around, unless you are a really good little nigger for massa.

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#299698 - 01/19/08 07:03 PM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: LightAngel]
Mr Avarice Offline



Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 991
Loc: Scandinavia
 Quote:
I believe that criminals sentenced to death could be put to use by serving as replacement for the animal testing which so widely practiced all over the world.

There has been a lot a pressure on the pharmaceutical industry to stop animal testing, and they did, most of them, but very little pressure has been applied to the scientific research facilities. In science animals are used as a replacement for the real thing the human, they are used as only a model organism with the human organism in mind. So why not use the real thing in the case of criminals that are beyond rehabilitation?

I think that the medical industry would benefit greatly from this.


Hahah...
I have been saying that for years! lovely to hear it from someone else for once!

Max Faust:
 Quote:

Death penalty is the shivering excitement of simpletons.

It doesn't solve any problem. It's outlandishly expensive. It has no preventional effect on "crime" as such (judging from the countries that are practicing it). It only serves the function of invoking the idea of a powerful state that can decide on life and death.

However, if you are a person who was wronged, I totally think that your "crime of passion" should be let off easy. Say 2-3 years only for really justified murder, of the kind that everybody will be able to identify with in a "hell yeah!" manner.

I'm gonna have to agree with you on this one, Max.

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#299737 - 01/19/08 09:27 PM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: hellbent666]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#299772 - 01/20/08 01:54 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: Lust]
hellbent666 Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Colorado
I thought Satanists were free thinkers because we subscribe to individualism. I thought that we were a productive group of people hence the topic at hand. I though we were intelligent people hence the quote from an intelligent man. I thought that some of your replies to this topic were very well thought out and articulate but I think that some of you might also be holding back (roho). Think what you want about me but I thought everyone could benefit from this observation. Which is more important...productivity or revenge? Just because it makes you feel better or maybe makes the victims feel better or even society feel better does not mean that is the most productive avenue. Do we propagate stupidity or do we break the cycle? I think agreeing with the death penalty could be considered falling into another herd or a herd theory, but I digress. Your politics are for you to decide, not me. Thanks for the responses!

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#299779 - 01/20/08 02:15 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: hellbent666]
Seeker Of Wisdom Offline


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 76
Loc: Buckholts, Tx
 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
Which is more important...productivity or revenge?


Ah, Mr. Hellbent 666, why is either more important? Do you feel it productive to mope about something that somebody did to you? Wouldn't that be counterproductive? That is why revenge is important. The level of revenge should match the action against you, but it should be taken. It helps relieve your mind of that want, that desire; and until you do so productive thoughts are normally put on hold or are not at 100%. So, revenge is productivity if it helps to move you forward. So Mr. Hellbent666, if a man smite thee on thy cheek, what action do you take? I personally am going to take revenge and get it out of my system, then turn the other cheek and dwell on it until it eats me up.HS!
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#299787 - 01/20/08 03:02 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: hellbent666]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
Revenge makes me feel better.

And in the end thats all that really matters.

Productive? well now who's to say it cant be productive as well.

Heres an example, someone annoys me one day and gets his proverbial ass handed to him he may not annoy someone else with less finesse in dealing with said annoying person, he may even hurt him badly and physically.

So Mr annoying goes to hospital and drains resources Mr angry person goes to jail and drains resources Mr angry's children go into care and drain resources, all because Mr annoying didn't get what was coming to him in the first place.

Shadowraven213, providing a service to society by teaching idiots a lesson when they need it.

"Be as a lion in the path!"
Anton Szandor LaVey
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#299811 - 01/20/08 07:46 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: Max Faust]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1677
Loc: Denmark
First of all, taking revenge on someone doesn't make the pain go away. For instance, if somebody killed your loved one and you took your revenge on them, even after you had killed them the pain because you lost someone you loved would not go away.

If you had a chance to kill the perpetrator in self-defense then murder would of course make perfect sense, but a successful revenge would still not eliminate pain. So it's kind of convenient to have the police running around hunting down criminals instead of you having to do it yourself if there was no police.

Victim mentality in the way that people just stay victims all their lives and then try to project their pain on everybody else instead of dealing with it themselves that is victim mentality, and that is something I do not support.

Avoiding pain can be done in a very simple way, if one wishes to do so denying one's emotions completely. If there is no love there is no pain. And as it saves one from emotional turmoil, it depraves one of joys of love. I personally do not want to deprave myself of any emotion, as it is emotion that brings joy into life, so of course I will also feel pain every now and then.

However, revenge is a dish best served cold, as they say, and there is a very good reason for that saying. I cannot afford spending 2-3 years in jail even if it is justified, this kind of behavior seems masochistic to me. There are many ways for vendetta, and not all of them include ending up in jail. Physical death is not the only kind of death one can deal as revenge.

Your principle would work if humans were scattered around some mountains. Your philosophy will indeed make the system mess with YOU the next time around, but that's because you haven't found a way to work around the system. Or you did, but you're not talking about it.

Today's organized community has many flaws, but it's a fact that people are organized in such a way. Seeing that there is 6 and half billion of them, and only one of you it is pure logic that you cannot fight against them physically or in any other similar way. Work around the system! And if you ever can make the system work for you! Brute force will not get you anywhere.

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#299817 - 01/20/08 08:37 AM Re: Revenge vs. Productivity [Re: hellbent666]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
You talk about herd mentality, yet you repeat every clich like "breaking the circle of violence" and "people can't kill but the state can" that are popular catch phrases among the propaganda-fed herdlings.

Your arguments against revenge and death penalty sound like a word by word repetition of what we have been hearing from the mouth of every bleeding heart pacifist since the sixties.

Basically you think retaliating violence with more violence is counterproductive.

So, how would you respond to violence directed toward you?

I asked you a question and you didn't answer it before. What do you do if someone purposely harms you? How do you respond to a direct attack from someone who is positively motivated to hurt you?
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You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
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