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#29942 - 03/05/04 06:09 AM The Great Abstinence.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, we're all gonna die! Really though, that's okay. As far as we can tell we will be abstaining from our cherished Earthly pleasures, yet it seems foolish to assume that we will experience nothing or otherwise cease to exist entirely when we die. Why do I bring this up? By telling someone that you know for a fact what happens to you after your vital signs fade is to be as pretentious as someone who thinks that they have all of life's answers simply because they think that millions of other idiots who were told WHAT to think can't be wrong. It is completely instinctive to want to prolong life, but to accept death as a transition rather than an end makes the minute portion of time allotted to us in life seem like a lot less pathetic reward for all of the shit we go through on a day to day basis. While it is pointless to build up false expectations for ourselves concerning what actually will happen, it is equally pointless to spend time fearing the reaper who will be bringing on "The Great Abstinence." So then it shall be a transition onto whatever it is that will happen next. Just don't be scared if the lights go out!

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#29943 - 03/05/04 07:39 AM Re: The Great Abstinence.
mattevans Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Japan
I have absolutely no idea what appens after death, apart from decomposition, nor do I care. Life is good and I will fight tooth and nail to hang on for as long as possible.

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#29944 - 03/05/04 10:57 AM Re: The Great Abstinence.
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
As far as we can tell we will be abstaining from our cherished Earthly pleasures, yet it seems foolish to assume that we will experience nothing or otherwise cease to exist entirely when we die.

It would be foolish to assume anything...but intelligent people can make an educated guess. Satanism is not concerned with belief, it is a religion of knowing, and a religion of observing the results. We know that when something dies, everything it is ceases to be, save the body which also sticks around for a finite amount of time. This suggests that any amount of consciousness does the same. It's not an assumption, it's an educated guess.

There is no proof, nor even an indication that humans have something more (a soul) than what is their physical manifestation (body) and a result of the physical manifestation (intellect). To assume that there is a soul or something else that lives beyond a body that has ceased to function is by far the more foolish assumption.

While I can't remember the exact person, a very wise woman I believe once said "Life should be lived in such a way that want or need of an afterlife is unecessary."

What a Satanist knows rather than simply believes is that first, he or she loves life, and second, his or her life will end. That is what the Satanist is concerned with, not esoteric and faith based "what ifs" that are neither her nor there.

The hope for an afterlife stems from the herd's inability to deal with a reality that is staring themselves in the face. They have egos that they have never learned to properly take care of, and so they invent an alternative reality where something loves them unconditionally (for they are unable to love themselves in such a way), someone will punish their enemies (for they are too scared and/or unimaginative to take the matters into their own hands), and also, a place where they can find nothing but bliss and pleasure when they die (for they are too stupid to see that they can have that here and now!)

By telling someone that you know for a fact what happens to you after your vital signs fade is to be as pretentious as someone who thinks that they have all of life's answers simply because they think that millions of other idiots who were told WHAT to think can't be wrong.

Once again, it's not presented as fact, but an educated guess, which holds much more water than the alternative which is a myth at best.

It is completely instinctive to want to prolong life, but to accept death as a transition rather than an end makes the minute portion of time allotted to us in life seem like a lot less pathetic reward for all of the shit we go through on a day to day basis.

If that's the way you feel, please, enjoy your pipe dream and get the most out of it. I feel quite differently. I like knowing that there is an end in sight. It urges me to make more valuable use of my time here and now. It wakes me up any time I consider my own mortality. I take that which tempts, I burn through my life with a passion, and I try my best to leave no unfinished business be it folly or foul. Perhaps the reason the herd is such an unsavory and uninteresting bunch is because they assume that they have all the time in the world, and all seem to assume that though not "perfect", their seats in Heaven are assured. Because they believe that there is no "game over" in their future, they procrastinate their very lives away. If they don't lose weight now, no bother, they'll be thin in Heaven. There'll be time to read the classics in Heaven. Why work hard to save up enough money to see the countries of the world now when they can much more easily view them all once they get to Heaven. Thus, a lifetime is spent taking the easiest road possible, which always leads to the same place: couch, TV, horrid snacks.

If anything, reluctance to believe in any afterlife has only prolonged my own.
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#29945 - 03/05/04 02:21 PM A couple of quick comments. [Re: Mason_Rust]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I fail to see how any guess at what will happen when we die is in any way educated beyond the evaluation of severely limited "evidence." The so-called facts that the human race has collected over thousands of years for the purpose of building a knowledge base can be judged as primitive and naive when trying to estimate it's completeness and accuracy. I am not going to try to represent myself as an example of an especially knowledgeable being, but even I realize that we are archaic in our methods compared to our own vision of what is possible.

In all fairness, I will maintain that there is a possibility of another form of existence after life on Earth (my pipe dream as you put it). You can continue to find security in being pretty damned sure through educated guesses that I suffer from a false sense of hope because the human race is lacking evidence.

Thank you for expressing your firm position on the matter. It is in no way my intent to encourage you to think beyond our carnal existence. What actually happens to us does not concern me much since it appears to be out of my control. It is my destiny to find out with certainty... all in good time.

I commend you on your attitude and zest for life.

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#29946 - 03/05/04 04:08 PM Re: A couple of quick comments.
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
I never said it was impossible. Sure, an afterlife is a possibility. However, I treat that possibility the same way I treat other "possibilities" (alien created crop circles, functioning Ouija boards, etc.) that currently have zero evidence to support them--I give them no concern.

From your original post:
...but to accept death as a transition rather than an end makes the minute portion of time allotted to us in life seem like a lot less pathetic reward for all of the shit we go through on a day to day basis.


Let me ask you a question. Even if there is an afterlife, what makes you think it would be a reward? What makes you think the afterlife would be any better than this one? What makes you not think that it would be even worse?

You've read The Satanic Bible right?
"There is no heaven of glory bright, and no hell where sinners roast. Here and now is our day of torment! Here and now is our day of joy!"

"Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!"

If you aren't in line with those ideas, which are foundations of Satanic philosophy, just what are you doing here?

Also, if you don't see existence itself as a good enough reward for the "shit" you go through on a day to day basis, maybe you should wise up and start making your life a more rewarding one instead of pining for an afterlife to even things out in the end. Your life is what you make of it. If it's not full of enough "rewards" for your liking, do something about it besides whining.

Satanism is a religion of the flesh, a religion concerned with what is, not with what is hoped to be.
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#29947 - 03/05/04 07:15 PM Re: The Great Abstinence.
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
Quote:

By telling someone that you know for a fact what happens to you after your vital signs fade is to be as pretentious as someone who thinks that they have all of life's answers simply because they think that millions of other idiots who were told WHAT to think can't be wrong.




Telling someone something is a fact and that no matter what, whatever they may think is false is pretentious anyways. Not just about the afterlife. But I can safely tell you what I think and try to convince you to believe it. That's what a good conversation (or debate?) is about (for me anyways). Two sides trying to prove themselves to be right. Ofcourse in the end almost surely both sides will leave thinking the same way they did before, but atleast now they both have a new opinion/theory to chew on.

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#29948 - 03/05/04 07:19 PM Be convinced... [Re: Mason_Rust]
Anonymous
Unregistered


My wording may have been confusing. Our time alive with the ability to indulge is the reward for the negative aspects of life, and our short stay here (the length of it) is what I was refering to as pathetic. The possibility of continued life after death would mean that you still exist to experience things as you see fit. What I was suggesting by the original post was that things will be different after we die. I never meant to imply that things will be getting better and we should look forward to a possible reward.

You've misinterpreted my post and drawn conclusions on my own philosophies and proceeded to chastise me.
I didn't whine, so don't lecture me.

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#29949 - 03/05/04 07:29 PM Oh, debate... [Re: Stanton_Vetalas]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree, people tend to like to present their arguements as fact. For me, it is a lot less important in conversation to try to convince someone of something when they just won't accept any of your input. I would rather just listen to them make their points and watch them gloat over their own knowledge and wisdom. I save a lot of energy and learn something in the process. After all, knowledge is power and if someone is unwilling to accept a free gift of knowledge or ideas, then why try to force it on them? I usually let them be right.

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#29950 - 03/05/04 07:33 PM Re: Be convinced...
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
My wording may have been confusing. Our time alive with the ability to indulge is the reward for the negative aspects of life, and our short stay here (the length of it) is what I was refering to as pathetic.

Not confusing at all, I got it the first time. You clearly stated that the life span we're given is a pathetic reward for the "shit" one has to put up with on a day to day basis.

Re-read your own words again, for it's clear as day:
..to accept death as a transition rather than an end makes the minute portion of time allotted to us in life seem like a lot less pathetic reward for all of the shit we go through on a day to day basis.

And I'm telling you that if the "rewards" of your life are pathetic compared to the "shit" you go through daily then you need to do a better job at life in general. Sounds like you need less "shit" and better "rewards", both of which are (or should be, if you're a Satanist) things that you have an amount of control over.

You've misinterpreted my post and drawn conclusions on my own philosophies and proceeded to chastise me.

I didn't interpret anything--I read your post literally. If it was misunderstood it is because you didn't express yourself very efficiently.

You feel chastised? Funny...I only felt like I was having an intelligent discussion. What's the psychology of that?
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#29952 - 03/05/04 07:36 PM Re: Oh, debate...
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
It's a vice of mine. If someone's a complete idiot when talking to me (if they're not trying to debate what they're stupid about with me I don't care, but if we're having a discussion about it) I can't just let it go. I have to atleast try to convince them otherwise. It drives me crazy, it'll just echo in my head untill I finally say it to someone.

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#29953 - 03/05/04 07:48 PM You've made a good point. [Re: Mason_Rust]
Anonymous
Unregistered


There is a large degree of dissatisfaction in my life which is quite equally balanced by pleasure and contentment. Thanks for encouraging me to minimize the things that I am not happy about.

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#29954 - 03/05/04 07:52 PM Re: You've made a good point.
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
You weren't motivated to minimize this dissatisfaction before?


....I know that when I'm not happy I try to get happy...



Yeah, I'm just being a smart ass though.

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#29955 - 03/05/04 07:55 PM Re: You've made a good point.
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
Well, I honestly don't know whether to believe that or not.

I would rather just listen to them make their points and watch them gloat over their own knowledge and wisdom...I usually let them be right."

I speculate that a belief in (aka, hope for) an afterlife stems from a dissatisfaction with one's current earthly life. If you don't like your life, change it! Take the necessary steps to make it something you want it to be.

At any rate, I've enjoyed this discussion. Chastising was never a goal, and not intended.
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#29956 - 03/05/04 08:10 PM My observation on Satanists being chastised. [Re: Mason_Rust]
Anonymous
Unregistered


This does not apply to you alone Mason Rust, but it occurs to me that quite often people are told about Satanism in such a way that it comes across as another religion of following rather than individuality. (IE: The SB says ___ so either you agree or you are wrong.) Personally I believe in religious foundation with encouragement to expand and modify views. When it comes down to Satanic definition, I think that it is important that we think similarly rather than too differently.

HS.

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#29957 - 03/05/04 08:14 PM I'm working on it. [Re: Stanton_Vetalas]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Some issues cannot be resolved swiftly, but encouragement helps as well as information/stimulation provided by other fine Satanists.

HS.

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