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#301980 - 01/28/08 03:07 PM Is it just verbage?
Aulus Offline


Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 5
I just got back from Borders books and sat down with a copy of the Satanic Bible.
To sum up without having a wordy post: I feel a connection with a lot of the ideals of Satanism.
But what I can't seem to swallow is how on one hand there is an atheist belief of no God, no Satan, as external beings, etc. but yet on same token I keep seeing the word 'magic'.
I understand how something like a destruction ritual can be a self therapy, or venting to get something off your chest. But then I read a passage that claims (paraphrasing) 'be careful to respect magic, be careful to really mean what you do.'
I don't know it just struck me as all the warnings I have read over the years in every other mumbo-jumbo book on magic, witchcraft, etc....

I read on the COS's website, the 'Youth Communiqué' part. And it described a "simple ritual" in which a black candle and some sort of medalion was needed.
See here is where it all just goes down the drain with me. What would it matter if a candle is used at all? Or the color of the candle? Or a goat headed medalion?
I just can't get into the "boogie-boogie" (no disrespect intended) that it strikes me as.

I guess what it comes down to is, I don't want ANYTHING that relates to what I would refer to as 'mumbo jumbo', 'voodoo', etc. Because then it just reminds me of what I can't stand. Then it just gives creedence to those made up by man, totally myth ideas.

Not sure if I am making a clear point here but man SO many of the ideals of Satanism were just agreeing with me, it was turning into the "seeing myself in a mirror" thing. But then when all the magic things, etc. especially connected with warnings about them, it was like letting the air out of a balloon.



Edited by Aulus (01/28/08 03:10 PM)
Edit Reason: misspelling

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#301982 - 01/28/08 03:13 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Aulus]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
It doesn't matter if you use a candle or what color it is or anything else. In fact it doesn't matter if you use magic at all if it doesn't please you. To each his own.
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#301983 - 01/28/08 03:17 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Aulus]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
'llo,

So what to do then ?

Keeping what you like and deny the rest by calling it "boogie-boogie" ?


Edited by Assabrah (01/28/08 03:35 PM)
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#301984 - 01/28/08 03:20 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Aulus Offline


Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 5
I understand. But I guess the point I was trying to make is: if Satanism is a form (for lack of better words) of atheism, then why the pretense of 'magic'? In other words is it just a word used? Like for whatever reasons more "hip" to say magic rather than theraputic?
And if so what about the warnings? If it is just a psychodrama thing then why would I have to worry about doing a destruction ritual and not really mean it, or change my mind afterwards?


Edited by Aulus (01/28/08 03:21 PM)
Edit Reason: word correction

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#301987 - 01/28/08 03:24 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Aulus]
RaSc Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 484
Loc: PA
Your questions are answered in the Satanic Bible. There's a lot of good info in there. I recommend re-reading it and, of course, posting an introduction so we can get an idea of who / what you are.

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#301988 - 01/28/08 03:32 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Aulus]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
You have received good answers to your quandery.
I can only add one thing...read the Preface to "The Satanic Bible". Now, ask yourself who defines magic, in the Satanic context.
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#301991 - 01/28/08 03:44 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Aulus]
spook show Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 356
Loc: under your bed
Did you consider the fact that maybe you're not a Satanist? If someone reads The Satanic Bible, but can't wrap their head around the concept of magic, maybe it's not the religion they should be looking into.

I know several people that call themselves atheists and not Satanists because they don't have any need for rituals or magic. They think it's all a lot of nonsense.

There's nothing wrong with not being a Satanist, just as long as you're honest with yourself and realize you're barking up the wrong tree.
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#301993 - 01/28/08 03:51 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Aulus Offline


Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 5
I did read the Preface but please forgive me for not remembering every idea contained in it.

I guess I just have to wonder why are there "warnings" associated with the "magic"? I mean if it's an idea that your mind has the power to will things outside of your body then sorry that's mumbo jumbo to me. That is sort of like that new (well not so sure how new it really is) book out there called "The Secret Book" by Rhonda Byrne. That basically says anything you imagine hard enough will happen. Again, mumbo jumbo to me in as far as your mind actually manifesting itself outwardly, like telepathy, projecting one's will so it actually has form to do something outside the confines of your own body, etc.

Now as far as one's mind being able to change him/herself internally that is more tangible of an idea to me. I do believe that one can change themself internally by imagination, self therapy, like I said in origianl post, I can see the destruction ritual being a great way to release a heavy burden. But when the warnings about it start creeping into the picture it (for me) starts going the way of, shall I say, Karma type thing. And sorry I don't believe in Karma either, it's too frought with mumbo jumbo.

A poster here said 'to just take what I want from the philosophy and ignore the rest' (paraphrasing). But man, that's what most Christians do. They pick and choose what fits them from their bible and what ever they don't like convieniently dismiss.
I don't know, I guess I am the type that if one piece is ignored or is allowed to be ignored it stains the whole structure.





Edited by Aulus (01/28/08 03:54 PM)

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#301995 - 01/28/08 03:57 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: spook show]
Aulus Offline


Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 5
2thenight excellent response. You could be right. But man I was SO excited when I started reading the COS's website and seeing the videos on Youtube of Mr. LaVey and Mr. Gilmore because they things the talked about in the many videos hit me like a ton of bricks (in a good way) : )


Edited by Aulus (01/28/08 03:59 PM)

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#301997 - 01/28/08 04:02 PM just dig deeper [Re: Aulus]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
 Quote:
A poster here said 'to just take what I want from the philosophy and ignore the rest' (paraphrasing). But man, that's what most Christians do. They pick and choose what fits them from their bible and what ever they don't like convieniently dismiss.


So it is up to you to don't do this then. it is up to you to read more the Satanic Literature and fill the big holes ( as I see many in your statements ). Nothing wrong, but here it shows that Satanism is a lifetime study.

People who pick up what they want, change the bedrock in order to make it fit to themselves are not in tune with Satanism.

I do not say now that a Satanist MUST apply magic, BUT if he is enough honest with himself and feel that this won't work with him, he'll just explore something else in this huge world and that's it. BUT again, there is a difference between this and denying something that doesn't need to be debated into that realm of Satanism : magic.

Satanism is not based on beliefs, and the magic used in this area is dealing with something else than the "ocus pocus" world.

The Church of Satan is not a Ghetto circle of Palo Monte !


Edited by Assabrah (01/28/08 04:15 PM)
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#302002 - 01/28/08 04:32 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Aulus]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
Satanism is a form (for lack of better words) of atheism, then why the pretense of 'magic'?


If one wants atheism, as is, it is available. It is not, however, a religion. Religions generally require 2 things, ritual and dogma. You seem to easily comprehend our dogma, but not unlike many, have a trouble with ritual. That is ok. Lots of people from lots of religions embrace their dogma but do not ritualize it. Yet, to be a Satanist, one should at least understand it.

For some Satanists, magic is negotiable--they either do not require anything beyond Lesser Magic (aka psychology), or are uncomfortable with magic as a parctice . For others, the knowledge that today's science was yesterday's magic implies that today's workings could possibly be tomorrow's science (say that ten times fast.)

More than that magic is like a psychological re-boot for the practitioner. For that reason there is danger---deleting old files, etc....could turn out unpleasantly for the magician if the goal isn't well defined.

 Quote:
If it is just a psychodrama thing then why would I have to worry about doing a destruction ritual and not really mean it, or change my mind afterwards?


Why any Satanist would waste time doing a rite that doesn't have meaning to them is beyond me--but again, the psyche is interesting---for shits and giggles you do a destruction rite, the recipient meets an ugly end (coincidentally or not, hmmm)---how would the psyche take that?

I love magic and have practiced it for decades, but that is my personal choice. I may do 20 rites in one month and not do another for 3 years. As for being hip, I haven't a clue. I don't often tell anyone what I do, so whether they would find it hip or not doesn't enter into my thinking.

I think the main thing, for me, is that my rites/spells/etc...are not requesting any help from external entities. I am empowering my God, which is myself, to do my bidding. I am doing this by utilizing archetypes that resonate with me---aspects of myself that are normally buried away during the day to day being of life.

We use the metaphor/archetype of Satan to define us religiously. We can likewise use whatever lies within to define our power to ourselves.


Y~
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#302006 - 01/28/08 04:38 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Aulus]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
Try reading the whole book from the beginning. The answer to your question is very near the front.
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#302010 - 01/28/08 04:46 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Aulus]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
How does the refutation of "God" automatically entail the refutation of magic?

Does the non-existence of the tooth fairy refute dental care?

Re-read the Youth Communique - it also says the outward trappings of ritual are not essential to the practice of magic - that it can be done in the "Theater of the Mind."
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#302011 - 01/28/08 04:52 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Virus9]
Aulus Offline


Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 5
Thank you all for your responses. I did not at one time feel bashed or ridiculed as I have been on other philosphy sites that I was interested in.

That in of itself means a lot to me and speaks volumes for Satanists.

May all of you have good health and prosperous lives.

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#302030 - 01/28/08 06:30 PM Re: Is it just verbage? [Re: Aulus]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
I mean if it's an idea that your mind has the power to will things outside of your body then sorry that's mumbo jumbo to me.

Our current High Priest Peter Gilmore has defined magic as "self-transformative psychodrama". Notice, two parts. "Psychodrama" implies something purgative and cathartic, as well as something indulgent and theatrical. But "self-transformative" implies something pragmatic and productive.

The point of greater magic is to tap into competencies that most people do not recognize in themselves. WHAT exactly those competencies are - well, that's open to some debate and discussion. I will say that a lot of posters here have experience with "self-transformative" effects that are not strictly understood by science.

That doesn't make them supernatural - there are big blank spots in our knowledge of basic natural powers. For example, lucid dreaming, or posthypnotic self-suggestion, are not yet well understood. This is just the tip of the ice berg.


Edited by reprobate (01/28/08 06:31 PM)
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