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#303886 - 02/04/08 12:33 PM Philosophical question.
Arvid Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Hey there.

After lurking on the forum I noticed something that caught my attention and decided to ask for some answers.
I hope you wont mind if I quote from the threads as its relevant for my question(s)

 Originally Posted By: bannedmember
I personaly enjoyed some weed now and then......



 Originally Posted By: LeviathanXIII
Also, thanks for admitting to the illegal activity. Makes it simple to remove you.


My first question is regarding the posts above...
Wouldn't this put you in a dilemma regarding international members who live in a country where it is legal?


 Originally Posted By: Nemo
In a sense it all comes down to this.

Anton LaVey was a street smart and very wise man.

He was not a fool.

He was not a slave to his passions.

Drugs are for slaves.


Is alcohol considered to be a 'drug'? Alcohol can lead to addiction just like drugs if not used properly. Naturally heroin *is* much stronger, but Canabis is considered to be softer than hard liquor.

So if drugs are for slaves, are alcohol also for slaves? Because I see no difference between someone smoking pot like the banned member, and someone like me who drinks three glasses of vine.

Finally, I was a bit suprised for the harsh treatment of our former stoner friend regardless of how pointless his thread was. That type of response would be something I would expect from Christian evangelicals, the non tolerant type. I was under the distinct impression that a satanist minds his own business without judging others. Basically if someone feels like
doing something stupid then a satanist would sit back and allow them. (unless it was close family)

This thread might be offensive, but I assure you my intention is not to insult but to satisfy my curiosity about the COS as an organization. I'm learning more about COS for each day and considering becoming a member. However non tolerant policies for individual freedom is something I shun.

-Arvid.

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#303890 - 02/04/08 12:46 PM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Arvid]
Magister_Harris Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 07/01/01
Posts: 1851
Loc: Long Island
 Quote:
Wouldn't this put you in a dilemma regarding international members who live in a country where it is legal?


No. This forum is hosted in the United States, where drugs are illegal.

 Quote:
Is alcohol considered to be a 'drug'? Alcohol can lead to addiction just like drugs if not used properly. Naturally heroin *is* much stronger, but Canabis is considered to be softer than hard liquor.

So if drugs are for slaves, are alcohol also for slaves? Because I see no difference between someone smoking pot like the banned member, and someone like me who drinks three glasses of vine.


Asked and answered many, many, MANY times on this forum before.

 Quote:
Finally, I was a bit suprised for the harsh treatment of our former stoner friend regardless of how pointless his thread was. That type of response would be something I would expect from Christian evangelicals, the non tolerant type. I was under the distinct impression that a satanist minds his own business without judging others. Basically if someone feels like
doing something stupid then a satanist would sit back and allow them. (unless it was close family)


When it comes to people publicly acknowledging their desire to engage in illegal activities, we're quite intolerant, and proud to be so.
_________________________
Hail the Citizens of the Infernal Empire!
Hail Satan!
Magister David Harris
Host - Hate Speech Radio
http://www.hatespeechradio.com

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#303893 - 02/04/08 12:58 PM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Magister_Harris]
Arvid Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Oslo, Norway
I see. Thank you for your informative reply.

 Quote:
Asked and answered many, many, MANY times on this forum before.


Looks like I got some searching to do!

edit : Hm..yes. I was under the impression that satanists were free thinkers who followed their own convictions rather than blindly following something because someone said so. I now realize I'm an atheist, or anti-theist rather than Satanist.

I, and my set of beliefs and convictions could be altered tomorrow if I was presented with evidence that disproved what I thought was 'right' while doing a better job presenting some form of 'truth'. Thats an open mind for you.

It seams Satanism (or at least in its form here at the forum) is the exact oposite. It seams the reason people are getting banned for admiting smoking pot as the stoner mentioned above is because its against what LaVey said/wrote. Blind dogma anyone? The moral zeitgeist changes with generations, and to stick with a firm set of rules WITHOUT questioning nor considering the posibility that what was right yestruday might not be right tomorrow, is to deny logic.

So can someone explain to me in a polite and elequant way what the difference between breaking the 'law of god' (any of them!) and the law of man witch is dynamic and changing depending of where and when in the world you live? I ask for a polite answer because it seams people love to answer ad hominem. I would also like to know what makes physical violence any better than the use of Canabis? LaVey himself wrote 'When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him'. So by destroy I take it he means physical actions? Seams like an oxymorn to me.

I won't become a member of COS as reading the Satanic Bible gave me a different view on Satanism that whats being presented here. My first impression is that it's a bit too stuck up, kind of like the catholic church, and Islam.

I guess I'll stick to good old fashion atheism. To question everything, and accept nothing as 'final'.

I wish you all the best.
Bye bye.





Edited by Arvid (02/04/08 01:31 PM)
Edit Reason: done searching

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#303930 - 02/04/08 02:33 PM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Arvid]
Magister_Harris Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 07/01/01
Posts: 1851
Loc: Long Island
 Quote:
So can someone explain to me in a polite and elequant way what the difference between breaking the 'law of god' (any of them!) and the law of man witch is dynamic and changing depending of where and when in the world you live?


It's really simple:

Breaking the law of "God(s)": No real world consequence.
Breaking the law of man: leads to monetary fine, incarceration, or death... none of which are conducive to an indulgent, Satanic lifestyle.

 Quote:
I would also like to know what makes physical violence any better than the use of Canabis? LaVey himself wrote 'When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him'. So by destroy I take it he means physical actions?


In manners of self-defense, it is vital that you defend yourself. If the situation does not call for violence, well, surely someone of your superior intelligence can think of non-violent ways to "destroy" someone.

Clear and polite enough for you?

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
_________________________
Hail the Citizens of the Infernal Empire!
Hail Satan!
Magister David Harris
Host - Hate Speech Radio
http://www.hatespeechradio.com

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#303934 - 02/04/08 02:52 PM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Arvid]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Arvid
I would also like to know what makes physical violence any better than the use of Canabis? LaVey himself wrote 'When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him'. So by destroy I take it he means physical actions? Seams like an oxymorn to me.


We (us, not you) agree that recreational drugs are undesirable for legal and other reasons.

Physical self-defense and self-preservation IS desirable for many reasons.

Self-preservation also being one of the reasons illegal/recreational drugs are NOT desirable.

If that "seams like an oxymorn" to you, that is your limitation, not ours.

Good Riddance.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#303986 - 02/04/08 04:36 PM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Arvid]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
It is nice to see someone who gets it!

 Quote:
My first impression is that it's a bit too stuck up,


If our following the law, and not apologizing for it is stuck up---you win! We're stuck up.

 Quote:
kind of like the catholic church, and Islam.


They are far too open minded for us---all that love the sinner, hate the sin stuff, and confession washing away mistakes...too namby pamby for the likes of us.

Islam--well, equal in vehemence, but again, they'll ignore laws of man for laws of God---seeing as man is his own god, we don't have that luxury.

And again---I ask, beg, desperately want to know, why everyone wants to promote illegal drug use, but doesn't say boo to thousands of other laws that they may break or that they feel are impinging on their liberties? Why have I not seen the post "In Defense of Jaywalking," or "Tax Evasion Can Be Fun?"

Y~
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#304113 - 02/05/08 12:28 AM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Ygraine]
Arvid Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Quote:
And again---I ask, beg, desperately want to know, why everyone wants to promote illegal drug use, but doesn't say boo to thousands of other laws that they may break or that they feel are impinging on their liberties? Why have I not seen the post "In Defense of Jaywalking," or "Tax Evasion Can Be Fun?"


Because there are logical reason to why the ban of Canabis could be ready for review? And there is a difference between promoting the use of class A drugs, and saying that Canabis have positive effects such as revealing people with Aids and Cancer from pain. So clearly comparing a class C drug with a class A drug is not very rational, especially not when you cant be addicted to Canabis AND alcohol being a more serious threat to your health if abused.

The reasons why you haven't seen post in defense of jay walking or tax evasion is because those are static laws and there isn't really any good reasons to cancel them.

Now I enjoy a good and civil debate like everyone else, so if you are going to reply then please be so kind to use real arguments because I have yet to see any reason besides 'LaVey says so' ;\)

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#304115 - 02/05/08 12:37 AM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Arvid]
Arvid Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Quote:
We (us, not you) agree that recreational drugs are undesirable for legal and other reasons.


I did a search on the forum and did not find any reason to why Canabis should be illegal and while alcohol is fully legal. Alcohol causes more damage both socially and physically than Canabis.


 Quote:

Physical self-defense and self-preservation IS desirable for many reasons.


LaVey writes 'bother you'. I did not know 'bother' ment anything physical. If you 'destroy' someone then thats assault. According to law you cant use self defense unless your life is in danger so please explain to me magister Svengali, what makes physical assault any more acceptable than inhaling Canabis?

 Quote:

Self-preservation also being one of the reasons illegal/recreational drugs are NOT desirable.


Again, alcohol is more damaging to the body than Canabis. The ONLY reason Canabis is illegal and alcohol is not is simply for the reason that we have historical and cultural ties with alcohol. If ancient monasteries were growing Canabis instead of making vine then Canabis would be legal while alcohol would be banned.

 Quote:

If that "seams like an oxymorn" to you, that is your limitation, not ours.


Why, because you say so? Please elaborate and give some logical reasons to my limitation.

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#304122 - 02/05/08 01:22 AM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Arvid]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
I'm not real tolerant of drunks either, in case you're wondering.

Clouding your mind with drugs is a moronic thing to do no matter what country you live in or what the "zeitgeist" is. Satanism and being a moron don't mix. Pretty simple solution here.

Why not try to justify other idiotic behaviors, such as cutting your wrists, or dipping your genitals in gravy and dancing naked around a pack of hungry rottweilers? At least then I'd be amused by your creativity rather than disdained at a dead horse beaten.

Just so you're aware of what a Satanist is:

Free thinker: Everyone on earth is a free thinker. They just don't think they way you'd like them to think.

Follow their own convictions: Sure they do, just so happens our convictions match what's written in the works of Dr. LaVey. If they don't match, then they're not Satanists. Funny thing is, everyone on earth also follows their own convictions, they just don't follow the convictions you'd like them to follow.

Ain't it funny how what this really amounts to is the fact that you want us to think the way you do and think there's something wrong with us if we don't?
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#304124 - 02/05/08 01:31 AM Pointless question. [Re: Arvid]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Satanism is not involved with "shoulds".

Satanism is involved with reality.

Illegal drugs are illegal.

People go to prison because they are illegal.

It does not matter whether this or that drug should be illegal.

What is, is.

The name of the religion here is Satanism, not Stupidity.

If you want to argue about what should be, you are welcome to do that most anywhere.

We are far more interested about what is and try very hard to never confuse the two.

You do not even have to subscribe to Satanism to do that.

It just is a very wise thing to do.

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#304127 - 02/05/08 01:41 AM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Arvid]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10562
Loc: England
What a thread. Again.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest if people wish to go and addle their minds with drugs.

It's to be expected. It is a herd pursuit and has become an intrinsic element of mass culture that has gained momentum because life has become such a cycle of laborious tedium for most people that they need an escape. It used to be spiritual religion in which people found themselves, now it's drugs they turn to for their spiritual experiences.


However, I always make the assertion that the Satanist, in enjoying his vital existence, does not share the same dreary world and thus has no need of such escape.

I once met a fellow who said he discovered Jesus through LSD. So off he went and became a Christian.

Alchies, druggies, thieves, murderers and all manner of other wastrels - isn't that exactly what the bible asserts the Christian church's doors are wide open to?

They are welcome to embrace them. We're The Church of Satan, not the fucking Salvation Army.

You've got it ass backwards. Must be all those cold, miserable, looooong winters you get in Norway.





Edited by Dr_Shaadriq_Aliz (02/05/08 11:30 AM)
Edit Reason: Typin Eros
_________________________
"Spiral Out: a bleak, page-turning, unforgettable read. Existentialism at its most hardcore" - www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#304133 - 02/05/08 02:16 AM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Arvid]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
If you want it legalized, go lobby for legalization.

The Church of Satan is not a drug-legalization lobby group.

If you want to take drugs, do it elsewhere.

I don't have time to hold your hand while you learn how to read and think for yourself.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#304136 - 02/05/08 03:57 AM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Arvid Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: LeviathanXIII
I'm not real tolerant of drunks either, in case you're wondering.


Neither am I. Do you describe someone who drinks as a drunk regardless of quantities? Because whats the difference between drinking modest amounts and smoking modest amounts?

 Quote:

Clouding your mind with drugs is a moronic thing to do no matter what country you live in or what the "zeitgeist" is. Satanism and being a moron don't mix. Pretty simple solution here.


Clouding your mind with alcohol is also a moronic thing to do yet its fully legal.


 Quote:

Why not try to justify other idiotic behaviors, such as cutting your wrists, or dipping your genitals in gravy and dancing naked around a pack of hungry rottweilers?


Why would I? To make such a comparisment is pretty absurd.


 Quote:

Just so you're aware of what a Satanist is:

Free thinker: Everyone on earth is a free thinker. They just don't think they way you'd like them to think.


I'm not asking for anyone to think any different. I'm simply asking some pretty valid questions. You say free thinker, but leave no room for other free thinkers who doesn't think like you want them to. Kinda ironic no?

 Quote:

Follow their own convictions: Sure they do, just so happens our convictions match what's written in the works of Dr. LaVey. If they don't match, then they're not Satanists.


Thats pretty much the definition of blind dogma witch excludes free thinking. A free thinking person would consider possibilities, make observations, and draw conclusions.

 Quote:

Funny thing is, everyone on earth also follows their own convictions, they just don't follow the convictions you'd like them to follow.


I follow my own convictions and expect people to follow theirs. I have no difficulties accepting YOUR convictions, but you have difficulties explaining yours with other arguments than 'because its written in a book'.

 Quote:

Ain't it funny how what this really amounts to is the fact that you want us to think the way you do and think there's something wrong with us if we don't?


Not at all. Not at all. I don't think there anything wrong with you, nor have I said so or implied it. Its fully possible to disagree with someone WITHOUT thinking theres something wrong with them. I wish you would one day would come to that conclusion.

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#304137 - 02/05/08 03:58 AM Re: Pointless question. [Re: Nemo]
Arvid Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Nemo
Satanism is not involved with "shoulds".

Satanism is involved with reality.

Illegal drugs are illegal.

People go to prison because they are illegal.

It does not matter whether this or that drug should be illegal.

What is, is.

The name of the religion here is Satanism, not Stupidity.

If you want to argue about what should be, you are welcome to do that most anywhere.

We are far more interested about what is and try very hard to never confuse the two.

You do not even have to subscribe to Satanism to do that.

It just is a very wise thing to do.



Fair points. Would you mind pointing out where the stupidity is?

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#304138 - 02/05/08 04:02 AM Re: Philosophical question. [Re: Svengali]
Arvid Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Svengali
If you want it legalized, go lobby for legalization.

The Church of Satan is not a drug-legalization lobby group.

If you want to take drugs, do it elsewhere.

I don't have time to hold your hand while you learn how to read and think for yourself.



I can think for myself just fine thank you. I'm not lobbying for the legalization of drugs either. If you want to hold my hand, you should at least present some (any!) type of intelligent argument witch will cause me to ponder, instead of your uninformative, dull, not very productive posts witch consists of 50% ad hominem.

So far, the only reasoning you use is 'I'm right because I'm smart, you are wrong because you are stupid'.

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