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#30480 - 03/13/04 09:22 AM Re: A Common Misconception
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
The person who is commonly referred to as Jesus of Nazareth may have lived and he may have not. At this point, it doesn't matter.

You need to step outside the cultural conditioning in which you grew up (or are still growing up in). Christian teachings are emotional and sentimental in its "outreach", and the longer you allow it room, it will do all it can to manipulate that about you. Entertaining ideas like "sin" will get you no where but caught in their web of unseeming deceit. If that's what you want, if that's what you are, then good luck...you're going to need it.
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#30481 - 03/13/04 12:58 PM Re: A Common Misconception
ochsenschaedel Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 1132
Loc: Nürnberg, Germany
I do belive however that Jesus did exist and that he did die for man's sin.

That makes you a Christian and not by any means a Satanist. That statement of yours is the foundation of the Christian religion.

You probably know this already, but you are not a Satanist.
You may like to think so but it's simply not the case.
By the way, your grammar is downright horrible.
I think you really need to work on using the shift key and a spellchecker.
Either way, this is obviously not the place for you.
Don't take this as aggression on my part. I'm only trying to save you some grief.

HS!
Markus

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#30482 - 03/13/04 01:44 PM Re: A Common Misconception
GloryS9 Offline
Banned

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 1736
Loc: Houston, Texas
Look into actualy history, anthropology and archeology. Roman law would give you quite an insight into the supposed Jesus. Roman Historians of that time period, as well as the actual history of the new testament (and old testament). Search everything in history about it! This will take you all the way back to the really beginnings of civilization, the Sumerians. You will come away with the actual history of humans. What you will find will be actual, not what followers believe. That is, if you really want to know.
What is sin? You say jesus died for your sins? What is a sin? What is a sin?!

Glory
_________________________
"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"
Mark Twain

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#30483 - 03/13/04 04:07 PM Re: A Common Misconception [Re: Dracul]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

"I do belive however that Jesus did exist and that he did die for man's sin."

What makes you say that? The stories in the xtian bible?
Why would he die for my sin? Why am I a sinner? What is sin and why does it has to be paid by someone's death?
If he paid for something I did, why doesn't he let me know that he did so? Are you a satanist? If so, have you understand the Satanic Bible?

Please answer politely or do not answer at all.




Darling im always polite!!

All those questions you asked i have been asking myself for a few years now and i stil not sure of the answers,I can however answer what made me say that and yes it is because of the christian bible,though god know's why because i really don't belive in the rest of it, so i don't understand why i belive that!! (hey at least im honest!)

Am i a satanist? well im more of a satanist than a christian but problebly less a satanist than a satanist who has never had a christian (or any religious) up bringing

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#30484 - 03/13/04 04:11 PM Re: A Common Misconception [Re: Caesar]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

The person who is commonly referred to as Jesus of Nazareth may have lived and he may have not. At this point, it doesn't matter.

You need to step outside the cultural conditioning in which you grew up (or are still growing up in). Christian teachings are emotional and sentimental in its "outreach", and the longer you allow it room, it will do all it can to manipulate that about you. Entertaining ideas like "sin" will get you no where but caught in their web of unseeming deceit. If that's what you want, if that's what you are, then good luck...you're going to need it.




Yes i so agree with you!!

i admit that i still carry a lot of baggage from christianity,some ideas are harder to dump than others.

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#30485 - 03/13/04 04:27 PM Re: A Common Misconception [Re: GloryS9]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Look into actualy history, anthropology and archeology. Roman law would give you quite an insight into the supposed Jesus. Roman Historians of that time period, as well as the actual history of the new testament (and old testament). Search everything in history about it! This will take you all the way back to the really beginnings of civilization, the Sumerians. You will come away with the actual history of humans. What you will find will be actual, not what followers believe. That is, if you really want to know.
What is sin? You say jesus died for your sins? What is a sin? What is a sin?!

Glory




That's a great idea glory, i have never thought of doing that i think i will do that,got any ideas where to start?

What is sin? that is a question i have asked my self over and over again for years,according to the bible just being born is a sin,everything we do since being born is a sin. Which is oneof the reason i got so pissed off with christianity. i was sick of feeling guilty for somthing i have no reason to feel guilty for.

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#30486 - 03/13/04 05:50 PM Re: A Common Misconception
Pluk Offline


Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 8
Loc: the Netherlands
Chocolategirl,

I have also been a very fanatical Christian, and had been believing that Jesus died for my sins, sometimes I was very full of deep emotions that god was so much mankind-loving that he would give his own son for us, I was really, and it also took a long time for me to be able to emotionally break with Christianity.
But there are just a few problems that are so obvious with the case of 'dying for man's sins'

At first it is not clear what a sin really means. You can see it as a deed on which a label (for some kind of reason) is put, a label with emotional content; guilt. A sin is nothing less, nothing more. The Christian churches have designed the sins (=putting those labels in a particular manner) in a way that no one could ever escape sin, (e.g. even sexual thoughts before marriage are a sin in their definition, there is an excellent explanation in the SB) so that everyone would feel guilty, and that gave the church power over people. Truly, a sin says more about those people who defined or labelled in a particular way a deed as sinful, than about the deed itself.

Second, if sins would truly exist, and were not just a deed with a label, but truly something 'supernatural', than why would god not just forgive?
Every Christian agrees that no human being (except for Jesus) has ever lived without committing one sin, and also that it is not in the power of any human being to live 'sin free'.
It is very illogical (and sick) to blame someone for something that is out of his/her power. That is the same as blaming a blind man for not being able to see something (except for that god would demand humans to be blind like that).

Third, what is the logic of offering as a sacrifice your own son to yourself, to be able to forgive mankind? Even I, pluk, can forgive people when they do something to me, and just simply say sorry (in most cases). I don't first have to kill someone whom I love before I forgive. I can just simply forgive, so in that way even I am much mightier than that 'almighty and merciful' god.

Fourth, if you listen to your deep nature, and would put the labels of good and evil on deeds yourself, don't you than feel that offering your own son as a sacrifice to yourself is actually the most disgusting thing imaginable? The excellent example of sinful (when you label yourself deeds as sinful, according to your own nature)? I felt it like that in anyway, and deep, deep disgust opened my eyes and made me run away from Christianity (although it still took a long time). If you want to come loose from your Christian background, sometimes even just reading the Christian bible can help, at least it helped me.


Edited by pluk (03/13/04 05:53 PM)

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#30487 - 03/13/04 06:15 PM Re: A Common Misconception
RustySpring Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 1109
Any confusion you have will be, I'm sure, a direct result of trying to mix two (clearly un-mixable) Religions together.

Supposing this character - Jesus, could die for your sins. How could it possibly work? How could his death free us from sin? And why are they sins in the first place!?

For any of that to be possible, you would have to accept the existence of God; an external deity, whom decided, for no logical reason that his son should die and this, somehow, would forgive sins like "being born", as you put it.

Utter poppycock!

You poor confused thing! – It has been said 1000 times before Satanists are born not made! Many Satanists were raised as Christians, but very few ever (happily) accepted any truth in it. It is apparent you were not born a Satanist as you still hold on to these falsehoods as truths!

Moreover, it seems that you are looking for an Identity to subscribe to.

I seriously doubt if this is for you!

HS!

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#30488 - 03/13/04 06:32 PM Re: A Common Misconception
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Am i a satanist? well im more of a satanist than a christian but problebly less a satanist than a satanist who has never had a christian (or any religious) up bringing

You can't be "a little bit of this and a little bit of that" You either are a Satanist or not. What you are saying is like "I'm a strict vegetarian, except I eat roast beef"

The concept of "sin", "being born in sin" and that someone "died for your sins" are all opposite to the very core of Satanic philosophy. If you read the Satanic Bible, you'll find that clearly explained. If after reading it, think you identify yourself with Satanism, that means you already got over the concept of "living in sin".

I think you should sit and re-think what you really are and what you really feel. Perhaps you are just confused.
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You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


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#30489 - 03/13/04 06:37 PM Re: A Common Misconception
Solomon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 499
Loc: Cincinnati
Coming from a Roman Catholic background, I can say that knowledge in the dogmatic practice of "Christianity" has lent itself to my intrigue of other cultures, religions, and ultimately what brought me to the Church of Satan, this board, and Satanism. I will still go to mass once in a great while to observe the architecture of the churches, and see what is going on on the other side of the fence. I enjoy the artistic works of crucifixes, and find the similarities in catholic and pagan masses to be interesting. I too am interested in the mythos of Christ, but it runs along the same lines as my interest in Cthulu, Odin, Cernunnos, the Kabalah, Torah, Koran, Buddhism, Hindu, Islam etc. I find enjoyment in studying these things, so therefore I study them. Does that make me less of Satanist? For those that would answer yes, I have one word for you...Stratification. Also, let us not forget past orthodoxes. Not only my own (Roman Catholic) but a full study of others as well.

This brings me to your post. Is it because you believe in the teachings of the Christian Bible that makes you uncertain in this place? If it is what you believe, and what makes you happy, then go for it. Satanism isn't for everyone, and to be honest, I would rather hold council with a christian who is sure of themselves, and happy in their beliefs than with someone who is trying to pass as a Satanist although they do not resonate with the philosophy thereof.

Or perhaps you are neither, perhaps you are looking to identify with something that you are not finding in Christianity. Are you finding it in Satanism? If not, that's fine, it just means you are looking in the wrong place. There are hundreds of different beliefs around the world, take your pick! or do as I did when I "left the fold behind", make up your own religion.

You see, religion is there to serve a purpose inherent in every human. That is a need for ritual, and dogma. In some sense, it also gives the adherent a feeling of belonging. So to quote a notable TV show (at least I think he's still on) "How's that workin' for ya?" If you are a Satanist, there will be no doubt. You'll know, believe me. If not, again, that's fine, just stop spending time here not gaining anything, utilize your time more towards your goals, and go enjoy yourself.

Best of Luck,
Solomon
_________________________
Dodge Swinger 1973, Galaxy 500,

All the way stars' green, gotta go.

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#30490 - 03/14/04 01:53 AM Re: A Common Misconception [Re: Solomon]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have read and re read the Sb a few times,not just reading it but stopping to think about the things that was written in it. i cam to the conclussion that i DO belive what is written in there,not just belive but have held most of those opinions myslef for years. i do belive i am a satanist,granted i still have emotinal ties to the christian church but that's to be expected.

Im not trying to combine 2 diffrent religions,i don't want the best of both worlds, i just still have a wee bit of christian dogma in me (i have been brain washed after all lol)

solomon,

you are right i am searching because i not finding anything i can identify with in the christian church, i am finding it in Satanism though,and have found it in satanism.

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#30491 - 03/14/04 03:07 AM Re: A Common Misconception
Powaqqatsi Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 396
Loc: Hungary
Perhaps some research would help you clean your brain. Did you know that Jesus was assembled from earlier mythical characters and events, and there's not a single evidence of that he ever lived?

Have you ever heard of Mithras, who was born on December 25th of a virgin mother, who died and who rose again from the dead, and who was called "Son of God" and "Saviour"?

Have you ever heard of Krishna, the second person in the Hindu Trinity, who was born of the virgin Devaki in a cave, which at the time of his birth was miraculously illuminated?
Did you know that the crucified Krishna is pictured on the cross with arms extended? Pierced by an arrow while hanging on the cross, Krishna died, but descended into Hell from which he rose again on the third day and ascended into Heaven...

And Osiris, the "Anointed One", who came to fulfill the law, who walked on water, and who was born of a virgin mother at (surprise!) December 25th, with his birth announced by a star and attended by three wise men? Betrayed by Typhon, crucified between two thieves on the 17th day of the month of Athyr. Buried in a tomb from which he arose on the third day (19th Athyr) and was resurrected. His suffering, death, and resurrection celebrated each year by his disciples on the Vernal Equinox -- Easter.

Well, do you find all this familiar? Maybe you'll find this site interesting as well: Pagan Christs.

As of the so called sins, if one actually read the book of Genesis, this person will see that what is commonly called "sin", is in fact a petty trap set by an imperfect and evil being (google for "Ialdabaoth"), who was terrified that his creations, his slaves would "become one of them"... It's like if one mad teacher in the kindergarten would put a bomb decorated with candies and flashing lights into the center of the sandbox, and would tell the three years old children NOT to touch the flashing red button with the skull, and then she would just leave the children, and when one of them, driven by his natural curiosity, would blow themselves up, the teacher would accuse the dead children and shift the responsibility to them...

And finally, I would like to suggest a site by the CoS-member Vexen Crabtree: Bane of Monotheism.

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#30492 - 03/14/04 04:59 AM Re: A Common Misconception
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
problebly less a satanist than a satanist who has never had a christian (or any religious) up bringing

What does that have do to with anything?

There is no less Satanic or more Satanic. You are either a Satanist or you are not.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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