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#30550 - 03/09/04 10:03 AM Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
"Herd-Conformity- That's obvious from a Satanic stance. It's alright to conform to a person's wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of many."------The 5th Satanic Sin

Most wanna-be Satanists and many new Satanists fall into the trap of trappings. Take, for example, Black clothes, now I enjoy wearing black as much as the next person, but if you wear black all the time, just to draw attention to your "supposed" evilness, you might be a lemming.

Satanism is about being your own god, not following blindly the fashion sense, or lack of it, of others, while trying to gain some form of attention. As a Satanist, you are part of the alien-elite, apart from what is expected, above what others perceive, and therefore you should wear, read, listen to, whatever YOU find pleasing, and to hell with what others think or care.

We have all seen the heavy metal, goth, (choose your own descrription), people, all trying to be as individualistic as possoble, all thinking that they are unique, and all dresing alike. Reminds me of a bunch of Jehovah's witnesses out for a day of evangelizing.

A Satanist should be physically undefineable, but mentally should be, self confident, intelligent, and posess a high self-esteem.

Some Satanists must wear certain clothes when we work as a job requirement. Some have long hair, some short, it is either a personal preference, or a job requirement. Personally I work in the security field, this dictates my grooming standards and dress while at work, but in no way defines Me as a Satanist. A Satanist should not be easy to spot, we are predators and as such, we must be able to hide amongst our prey if we so choose to.

Satanist can find pleasure in most any form of entertainment and learn something from it, even if the only thing they learn is that they do not care for it.

Pseudo-Satanists tend to be the most vocal, as was said very distinctly elsewhere in this forum, "The empty can rattles the loudest", the sad thing is that pseudo-Satanists are usually so caught up in acting "evil" that they are sometimes too lazt to take the time to study what they supposedly represent.

A Satanist knows the truth, understands who they are, what motivates them, what they are doing, where they wish to go and how to get there. But, some new to Satanism follow others blindly or even worse, allow a stereotype to become their archetype. Playing into the christians feeble hands of making Satanist easy to identify and predict, which makes them an easy target.

The public tries to pidgeon-hole the Satanist, and unfortunately, some Satanists are far too eager to jump in the hole.

The general public makes the mistake of thinking Satanism is about darkenss and death, you see it in almost every form of media. Why?...go to any "Satanic" website and you'll know why.

Satanism, as you know, is about life and living life to it's fullest, here and now. As Satanists WE are the only ones truly free to love who WE choose, if they deserve it.

Don't get me wrong, I do NOT think outward displays of Satanic pride are in any way wrong, but, they should be done for the right reason, for Yourself, not to fit in with a group, and not for shock value, and not if it will negatively impact your livelyhood or happiness. Satanism does not need martyrs, it needs warriors and leaders.

So many pseudo-Satanists would rather wear a baphomet strickly for the shock value, than actually do something with their lives, actually make their individual mark on the world. Some would rather follow blindly the path of the "dark-lemming"than blaze their own trail.

A lemming cannot truly consider themself a Satanist, and a Satanist should not strive to be a lemming.

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#30551 - 03/09/04 11:56 AM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: DavidP]
Siatris Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/22/01
Posts: 489
Loc: Northern Colorado
Learn to spell… now on with my post.

A new Baphomet tattoo does not make one a Satanist.
There is no dress code for Satanism, black or not.

You are not more of a Satanist if you recognize and PREACH that some Satanists do not wear all black while some do.
A Satanist develops their own aesthetics; lack of them would be a sin.

You speak against herd conformity here while preaching that one might find it necessary to blend in with the herd and sacrifice their aesthetics. Why are you preaching against one style of conformity and promoting another?

I have seen many pseudo-Satanic people, all trying to be as individualistic as possible, all thinking that they are unique, because they don’t wear black all the time. Sound familiar.

It’s silly! Find what you like, and pursue it. Others may not have the same opinion, but that’s all just opinions and not philosophy.

Or as my girlfriend would put it, who cares as long as you look good!

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#30552 - 03/09/04 11:59 AM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: DavidP]
HLGwyn Offline


Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 128
Loc: Colorado
Hello DavidP.

Sometimes I get caught up in the presentation of others, blindly forgetting the ways I have presented myself, and that *reason* is sometimes different than *perception*.

Some Satanists wear black because it is very pleasing, and they can do it in style, or as a substitute for holding the middle finger aloft for the world to get a picture of a currend mindset.

Even though Satanism is a merit based religion, physical identifiers enable a calling card for like-to-recognise-like more readily. Not all of the people that exhibit Satanic qualities identify with Satanism on any level, and would take offense at being lumped in with even a small portion of Satanism. Fine. They get their props just by being who they are, and doing what they do, regardless.
But if we consider the nature of people (any and all) common identifiers have been in use since the time some rolled in white mud, and others smeared themselves with ochre paint. Even those that refuse adornment make their own statements.

What needs to be remembered is that people take their actions unto themselves, for their own reasons. Some young buck who strides around in solid black is sending signals that may or may not be in accord with anyones' perception, but the only one who knows for sure what context the black signifies, is the one who wears it. Period.

If the majority lump such personal adornment into definable categories that is their problem...lack of solid knowledge...rather than second guessing what the viewed persons life may really entail.

What would be a better way of knowing another persons habits and motivations? Since you stated that Satanists are hunters in a world of prey, I must think that wolves look like wolves no matter what, though they may blend with the world to get closer to their prey, they do not wear sheeps clothing.

The one definable way to grasp character is to watch habits and actions. Hunters seldom throw themselves at a target without some form of tracking and positioning for the advantage. And if we make the mistake of living on perception alone, it is a loss. Take for instance the large Mule Deer buck. He may just be food, but did anyone notice the patch of wolf-hide stuck on one of the tines of his massive rack? Did anyone notice that he just does not flinch at small sounds or predator scent that he catches whiffs of? He goes on within his kingdom waiting for the fight he knows will come. He is not food after-all, even though he is of the kind that food comes from.

When some Satanists wear their identifiers, it is their responsibility. When I wear mine, sure I get side-long glances, and whispers...but when those that see me have to interact with me, often their concerns about me seem rather unfounded to them after the experience.

On a last note, physical presentation is subjective to purpose or character. It can attract, it can push away, it can confuse, it can anger, it can deceive, it can tell the whole story...but the magician who controls his environment through his style and behaviour cannot be lumped into a single group based on looks alone, except to those of the herd mindset. To nit-pick, sure some Satanists might wear their baphomet and their blacks to ward off others and appear as wannabes set on being "evil"...I guess it worked for them as they intended...but by no means did they show their telling hand in all of its' interpersonal glory.

What matters is not style but substance.

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#30553 - 03/09/04 12:04 PM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: Siatris]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
My post, my opinion.

Paragraph 3 of my post agrees with the next to the last statement of yours...I'm sure though that you were so concerened with my spelling that it escaped you.

The rest was my opinion, not yours. Agree or not, it doesn't matter.

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#30554 - 03/09/04 12:14 PM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: HLGwyn]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
Thank you for an excellent response, and not dwelling on my mispelled words, lack of sleep has its drawbacks.

You brought up many points I did not think of while trying to compose my thoughts.

You stated:
"To nit-pick, sure some Satanists might wear their baphomet and their blacks to ward off others and appear as wannabes set on being "evil"...I guess it worked for them as they intended...but by no means did they show their telling hand in all of its' interpersonal glory."

And I agree.

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#30555 - 03/09/04 12:17 PM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: DavidP]
Siatris Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/22/01
Posts: 489
Loc: Northern Colorado
My post was more intended to point out logical fallacies in your argument. If you wish I could go back and give the Latin names for the ones I find (Ad Hominem, etc.).

Paragraph three tells us that we are to look as we wish according to our own aesthetics while the ones before it are blasting any who might look similar to certain styles.

Watch yourself. I can stand a little hypocrisy, that’s expected of human nature. However I do have a breaking point, especially when opinion is slanted off as “all or nothing” philosophy.

I must be off to class so good day, look tomorrow or later on today, if you decide to reply to my message. Don’t be angry with this, instead learn from this. I once had problems spelling and creating solid arguments as well.

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#30556 - 03/09/04 12:22 PM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: Siatris]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
I will just let this drop.
Opinions are opinions, and sometimes I voice mine strongly.
We all do at times.

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#30557 - 03/09/04 12:22 PM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: DavidP]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Satanism does not need martyrs, it needs warriors and leaders.

Satanism does not need warriors or leaders. Satanism needs to be lived and not taught. A Satanist should not be trying to "lead" other Satanists. Satanists are individuals with individual needs and wants.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#30558 - 03/09/04 01:44 PM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: Discipline]
Foxy_Ramirez Offline


Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 207
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Well, I wouldn't go as far to say that one Satanist shouldn't lead another because that would undermine the entire idea of the hierarchy. Some are better leaders than others, and they will take the reins regardless of what they are told.
Although, if one doesn't wish to lead, manipulation always becomes a second choice. Even though there is a bit of Satanic pride and sibblingship going on, if needed, I would not be afraid to use my manipulative abilities on anybody, Satanist or not. And as a human preditor, that is my right!

Hail Satan!
_________________________
"There is a beast in man that should be exercised, not exorcised." ~ Anton Szandor LaVey

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#30559 - 03/09/04 05:22 PM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: DavidP]
Perndog Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 558
Loc: USA
If by "opinions are opinions" you mean that "all opinions are equally valid," I don't think you've quite got it.

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#30560 - 03/09/04 05:40 PM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: DavidP]
DCAdam22 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 238
Loc: Washington, DC
I praise your post, if only because you've made an important observation I think goes over many people's heads here. I don't think you were critical of kindergoths and spooky-kid types just to be nasty, but rather because there are people in all organizations (this board has its share too) who have deluded themselves into thinking they are being rebellious when they are playing an old game in a new disguise. An analogy can be drawn between, as you put it, "psuedo- satanic herd" conformists and some suburban skater boys and Hot-Topic-shopping dumpy-looking girls who think they are rebelling against the mainstream, yet wind up looking like three-million other bored kids across America. I can see the same thing in the all-black wearing pseudo-vampire shit. If that's your thing, that's your thing. Just remember, sometimes black is NOT a flattering color and there is a time and place for everything!
For example: wearing all black, black makeup etc. will get you no job of any worth (besides say, working at Hot Topic ) and I would wager won't bewitch any guy/girl who's got what you want. Some people need to go back and re-read The Satanic Witch. And I think, in short, that's what you were trying to say, no?

Adam



Edited by DCAdam22 (03/09/04 05:41 PM)
_________________________
"It's too bad stupidity isn't painful." -Anton Szandor LaVey

"We are all animals, my lady!" -Darkness, "Legend"

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#30561 - 03/09/04 07:48 PM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: Discipline]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:


A Satanist should not be trying to "lead" other Satanists. Satanists are individuals with individual needs and wants




And by making this statement, you aren't making a statement about what Satanists 'should' do?How is that any different than what you are speaking against?
To lead or be led is only human nature.
I would say (and TSB would agree) that there is nothing wrong with falling in line with anothers ideas or wishes, as long as it benifits you.
On the flip side, to desire to make others fall in line with your own wishes is the epitome of Satanic principle. How is it you see that as unSatanic?
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#30562 - 03/09/04 10:19 PM ... in addition [Re: Discipline]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'd like to add to your statement, Discipline...

Satanism does not need martyrs, it needs warriors and leaders.

Satanism needs? I don't care what Satanism needs, if it doesn't benefit me then what good is it? I'm certainly not going to sacrifice my time and life for the benefit of others with no personal gain of equal value. I could actually care less about the rest of the "Satanists" or what they choose to do. They're Satanists, they're perfectly capable of taking care of their own affairs. If they aren't, then life will grant them the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. If they can succeed in problem-solving, as any intelligent and supposedly "elite" human being can, then they will require no admonition to become a leader or warrior. Things will happen automatically.

What I see many people mistaking for being an "individual who leads" is one who inherits or usurps the pre-established power and then wields it. I think more or less the idea is to create your own power, one which exists completely seperate from the pre-established one that others might seek to commendeer. Being at the top of the ladder isn't as egotistically rewarding if you didn't create the ladder.

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#30563 - 03/10/04 12:26 AM Re: Pseudo-Satanic herd conformity [Re: Dan_Dread]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
When I said "lead" I was not implying that leadership is a worthless thing. By no means did I mean to imply that. What I was saying is if by leading you are drifting away from what truly matters, yourself. Leadership is a great quality especially when it is career related.

If a individual wishes to lead others in a social climate that is their business. But what are your motives? Are you selfishly leading them? I can understand leading a friend or a loved one through hard times. I understand the importance of taking charge and leading those at work. But I would not say that by wasting my time and leading those whom I personally don't know is worth my time. Unless, of course, I can directly benefit from it. I have seen those who spend countless hours helping and leading others just to have all their energy drained away.

If by leading others you gain something out of it then by all means do so. Those who step up to the plate just because they believe it is their place to are a little off the mark. You either are a leader or a follower.

Satanism has it's leaders but to say that all Satanists should lead other Satanists is a little silly. For one, not all Satanists have the same opinions and enjoy the same pleasures. One Satanist proclaiming one thing to be unsatanic will not be for another.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#30564 - 03/10/04 12:38 AM Re: ... in addition
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
What I see many people mistaking for being an "individual who leads" is one who inherits or usurps the pre-established power and then wields it. I think more or less the idea is to create your own power, one which exists completely seperate from the pre-established one that others might seek to commendeer. Being at the top of the ladder isn't as egotistically rewarding if you didn't create the ladder.

Agreed.

I will follow a man if he has measured up. If it benefits me (I use the word "benefit" a little too much) to do so. I see nothing wrong with leading or being lead.

It's those pseudo-leaders that I can't stand and I have meet some that have promised wealth and happiness only to be full of crap. I don't understand the reasoning of why some who find Satanism automatically believe it is their place to preach and to fight a Satanic war. Then they see those that choose not to follow to be weak and unsatanic.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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