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#30579 - 03/09/04 10:13 AM A rose by any other name?
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
I always wonder when I see Satanists refrain from using certain words. For example, I often see the word "xtian" instead of "christian". I wonder why some do this, are they too lazy to type the entire word? Are they afraid to use the word, for one reason or another?
(Niether of those traits are very Satanic in my opinion)

No mythologic name or image holds any sort of reverence for me (except in the ritual chamber, and then it's a conscious choice....I could even choose to use my own name if the fancy struck me)

On one site, I even saw the word "xtoid", now even fully spelled out "christoid", this makes no sense to me whatsoever. Is this another created word like "wiccan" that someone is trying to introduce to an already intellectually lacking society and it's pollitically corect vocabulary?

Why should we, as Satanist, worry about possibly offending christians, or especially othr Satanists by using the word "christian"?


Edited by DavidP (03/09/04 10:24 AM)

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#30580 - 03/09/04 10:21 AM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
Mr_Scary Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 192
Loc: Colorado springs, Colorado
I agree with you, but some Satanists tend to be less bold than others. All I would suggest to you, no offense intended, is to check your spelling. I had a friend that once told me that it was hard to take another persons writing seriously if it is not correct.
Hail Satan and be BOLD
Scary

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#30581 - 03/09/04 10:23 AM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: Mr_Scary]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
My mistake...I have been awake for 27 hours, just came off a long nights work and wanted to get the stuff down before i went to bed.

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#30582 - 03/09/04 11:00 AM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
RobertE Offline


Registered: 08/31/03
Posts: 607
Loc: Michigan
How is being lazy "un-Satanic" when Sloth is one of the 7 virtues by which one should enjoy life?
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#30583 - 03/09/04 11:06 AM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: RobertE]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
Lazy can equal stupid when the material to learn has been around since 1968, and the person doesn't take the time to read about what they are pretending to be.

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#30584 - 03/09/04 11:22 AM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10574
Loc: England
>>material to learn has been around since 1968<<

Why? What exactly happened in 1968 then, Mr DavidP?

I mean apart from "2001 - A Space Odyssey" and the assassinations of Martin Luther and Robert Kennedy.

What is it specifically that happened in this year are you refering to?
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#30585 - 03/09/04 11:29 AM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
sCara Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 1223
Quote:

Why should we, as Satanist, worry about possibly offending christians, or especially othr Satanists by using the word "christian"?




I don't think some type Christian as Xtian because they are "afraid of possibly offending" anyone. I think most mean it as a blatant offense. One way to see it is that there is a big bold X (as in crossing something out} there. I personally just type Christian. I have been known to type XXXmas, however, as that gives a clearer description of how I approach said holiday..

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#30586 - 03/09/04 11:30 AM The Most Important Event in History!!! [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mr. Mullah,

He must be referring to my birth in the year 1968!!! I must be his idol.


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#30587 - 03/09/04 11:35 AM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
sCara Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 1223
Quote:

Lazy can equal stupid..




By using can, you will surely agree that this is but one interpretation.

What I think RobertE means is that the so-called Seven Deadly Sins are more of a checks and balances for the Satanist.

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#30588 - 03/09/04 11:55 AM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
okay....1969.

My point still stands.

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#30589 - 03/09/04 11:56 AM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
sCara Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 1223
Quote:

My point still stands.




How?

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#30590 - 03/09/04 12:03 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
That's just a mater of personal tastes. I don't like to use that kind of abbreviations, because I like to call things by their names. I always spell Christian, Christmas...

I must also say this way to speak is not unique of Satanists (or even pseudo-Satanists) Christians themselves use the abbreviated form "Marry Xmas" in greeting cards and they don't intend it as offensive.

Also, the most important event that happened in 1968, besides the ones mentioned above, was my arrival to this planet.
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#30591 - 03/09/04 12:05 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
MagisterRose Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 2404
Don't read too much into these things. Xian or Xtian is a contraction for Christian. Nothing more than a way of dropping a few keystrokes while conveying the same idea. Just like Xmas. There is no fear of the word or concern at offending anyone involved.
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#30592 - 03/09/04 12:34 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Some people have a sense of humor.
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#30593 - 03/09/04 12:46 PM The pope says... [Re: DavidP]
Shiboleth Offline


Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 113
Loc: Alberta, Canada
...its OK! X corresponds with the Greek letter kristos if I'm not mistaken it therefore fits. Besides as I said the pope says its ok, he has even used it on occasion as shorthand. Another thing Satanists think is Satanic is really Christian or Xian is the inverted cross. St. Peter didn't want to be crucified right side up or so the story goes because he felt it would be an affront to Jesus. So they did him upside down. If you take a close look at the pope's chair, you'll see an inverted cross on it. Thats why many American Xian sects see catholics as not Xian because they don't know any better.
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#30594 - 03/09/04 12:51 PM Re: The pope says... [Re: Shiboleth]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
What's funny is if you ever look at conspiracy sites on the web, some think the pope is the anti-christ

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#30595 - 03/09/04 12:54 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: Discipline]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
"I got a sense of Humor, I gotta Hell of a sense of humor."
-Sgt Hulka (Stripes)

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#30596 - 03/09/04 01:01 PM Re: The pope says... [Re: DavidP]
Shiboleth Offline


Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 113
Loc: Alberta, Canada
(ex Catholic here) the reason for that I suspect is that according to Roman Catholic doctrine, the pope is Jesus' direct represtentative on Earth, that chaffes many Protestant and Baptist/Pentecostal sects. Most of these sects do not regard Catholics as Christians anyhow due to their high respect for Mary. In my home province, Newfoundland, Mary is almost equal to God in that she's regarded as the Queen of Heaven. Prayers go to her before Jesus or God for that matter. Its an interesting throwback to Goddess worship and coresponds directly to Nuit or Nut in Thelemic doctrine. Neat huh?


Edited by Shiboleth (03/09/04 01:02 PM)
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#30597 - 03/09/04 01:11 PM Re: The pope says... [Re: Shiboleth]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
Very!

Thanks for the post..very informative, and did not rub me the wrong way...very little chaf'ing...unlike my posts so it seems.

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#30598 - 03/09/04 01:46 PM Why "X" isn't inherantly offensive [Re: Shiboleth]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11561
Loc: New England, USA
>X corresponds with the Greek letter kristos if I'm not
>mistaken it therefore fits.

Actually, you're confusing the word with the first letter of that word. Cristos ("Kristos") is the Greek WORD for "Christ". The first letter of that word is called chi, which looks like an "X".

The use of "X" to stand for "Christ" was developed by Xtians centuries ago, and they continue to use it. Some sects use the first two letters, chi and rho (which looks like a "P"). That's why you'll see a lot of Catholic churches displaying what looks like an "X" drawn over a "P".

I use words like "Xtian" or "Xtianity" for one simple reason: it's short-hand. And it's a habit I got into from years of posting to religion-themed forums. If people take offense to that, then they're obviously ignorant of the subject and I'd say they thus deserve to be offended.

Besides, since the original New Testament was in Greek, wouldn't it be less offensive to use the first initial of the original name, rather than the name "Jesus"? "Jesus" doesn't even mention the "Christ" (divinity) part, but is itself just a translation of a translation of a translation. I've seen coffe mugs with my so-called "Hawaiian name" on them, but calling me "B" seems closer to the truth than using some foreign translation of my name.

>Another thing Satanists think is Satanic is really
>Christian or Xian is the inverted cross. St. Peter didn't
>want to be crucified right side up or so the story goes
>because he felt it would be an affront to Jesus.

Yes, in fact many sources call this "the Cross of St. Peter". That would be fun to say the next time I see somebody wearing and inverted cross. "Hey, the cross of St. Peter! Are you Catholic?"
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#30599 - 03/09/04 02:26 PM Re: Why "X" isn't inherantly offensive [Re: Bill_M]
Shiboleth Offline


Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 113
Loc: Alberta, Canada
ah I stand corrected, thank you.

"That would be fun to say the next time I see somebody wearing and inverted cross. "Hey, the cross of St. Peter! Are you Catholic?" "

I've done that, the motherfucker got pissed and started ranting "you christians this and that" how little he knew.
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#30600 - 03/09/04 02:29 PM Re: Why "X" isn't inherantly offensive [Re: Bill_M]
Powaqqatsi Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 396
Loc: Hungary
Quote:

Yes, in fact many sources call this "the Cross of St. Peter". That would be fun to say the next time I see somebody wearing and inverted cross. "Hey, the cross of St. Peter! Are you Catholic?"




Caravaggio, who lived around the 1600s, painted "The Crucifiction of St. Peter".

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#30601 - 03/09/04 03:10 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
C_D_McKinna Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 777
Loc: San Diego, CA
I think you are a little confused.

The "X" in the Xtian spelling is the crossing out of Christ.

"Xtoid" (though I never use the term myself) would be similar in meaning as mongaloid.

Why should we, as Satanist, worry about possibly offending christians, or especially othr Satanists by using the word "christian"?

I think these terms are used in the name of bieng offensive, rather than a fear of offending.

In short, those who do use these terms and spellings do so for the sake of fun...and I see nothing wrong with that at all.



Edited by C_D_McKinna (03/09/04 04:18 PM)
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#30602 - 03/09/04 03:41 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: C_D_McKinna]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

In short, those who do thse terms and spellings do so for the sake of fun...and I see nothing wrong with that at all.




I think this depends on the person. Magister Nemo made a few posts a while back about calling a group what they prefer to be called. It was in reference to calling CoS members "pinkies" - but it applies here as well.

I, personally, think that by spelling the name out, just as you would for the name of any other religion, you put it in a completely neutral position. It equalizes. I don't see people abbreviating the name of any other religion frequently, and yes - much in the way that not capitalizing the word "I" may denote a certain kind of insecurity or self depreciation - Xian (etc.) can denote that the user feels threatened by Christianity and feels the need to undermine it in some way. "Christ" is a powerful word for a lot of people in the world. To pretend that, in effect (if not by intent), "X"ing it out is not making a small negative statement about your feelings toward that powerful word and the idea that it represents seems somewhat naive.

With regards to communication, it is not so much what you mean that matters - it's what you say.

I know many people here do simply use this as an abbreviation. And I am not implying that they necessarily feel 'threatened' or 'insecure' about the use of the word Christ. However, no doubt, some do. And that is, like it or not, how it reads to an outsider. Mr. Padgett simply picked this up and mentioned it.

There's no harm in doing it, and I don't think less of other Satanists for doing so.

But this is not the last time this question will be asked. There is a reason why people think this way - no matter what the intent of the author. It will read, to a majority of the population, like you are avoiding using the word Christ, or trying to undermine Christians in some way via language.

Christians undermine themselves, when forced to hold a discussion within a rational framework. This is, I think, much more satisfying.

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#30603 - 03/09/04 04:18 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
I sometimes don't capitalize a word on purpose. I don't respect christianity for example enough to do so, etc. I'll use " x-tianity " sometimes also, if I'm in a funky mood.

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#30604 - 03/09/04 04:28 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
C_D_McKinna Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 777
Loc: San Diego, CA
Quote:

In short, those who do thse terms and spellings do so for the sake of fun...and I see nothing wrong with that at all.




That was an interesting contraction of the words "use" and "these," don't you think?

On a more serious note, your post was very well stated, and you made some excellent points.

I do think that the "X" has it's place. Much like the Black Mass and the Infernal Diatribe, treating the terms Christ and Christian in a deragoatory manner can be liberating.

People have good reason to be angry with the Christian Church after all, and the releasing of such pent up anger, even in seemingly insignificant gestures as crossing out the Mad Redeemers name, can help one to move on to bigger and better things.
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