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#30594 - 03/09/04 12:51 PM Re: The pope says... [Re: Shiboleth]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
What's funny is if you ever look at conspiracy sites on the web, some think the pope is the anti-christ

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#30595 - 03/09/04 12:54 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: Discipline]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
"I got a sense of Humor, I gotta Hell of a sense of humor."
-Sgt Hulka (Stripes)

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#30596 - 03/09/04 01:01 PM Re: The pope says... [Re: DavidP]
Shiboleth Offline


Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 113
Loc: Alberta, Canada
(ex Catholic here) the reason for that I suspect is that according to Roman Catholic doctrine, the pope is Jesus' direct represtentative on Earth, that chaffes many Protestant and Baptist/Pentecostal sects. Most of these sects do not regard Catholics as Christians anyhow due to their high respect for Mary. In my home province, Newfoundland, Mary is almost equal to God in that she's regarded as the Queen of Heaven. Prayers go to her before Jesus or God for that matter. Its an interesting throwback to Goddess worship and coresponds directly to Nuit or Nut in Thelemic doctrine. Neat huh?


Edited by Shiboleth (03/09/04 01:02 PM)
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#30597 - 03/09/04 01:11 PM Re: The pope says... [Re: Shiboleth]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
Very!

Thanks for the post..very informative, and did not rub me the wrong way...very little chaf'ing...unlike my posts so it seems.

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#30598 - 03/09/04 01:46 PM Why "X" isn't inherantly offensive [Re: Shiboleth]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
>X corresponds with the Greek letter kristos if I'm not
>mistaken it therefore fits.

Actually, you're confusing the word with the first letter of that word. Cristos ("Kristos") is the Greek WORD for "Christ". The first letter of that word is called chi, which looks like an "X".

The use of "X" to stand for "Christ" was developed by Xtians centuries ago, and they continue to use it. Some sects use the first two letters, chi and rho (which looks like a "P"). That's why you'll see a lot of Catholic churches displaying what looks like an "X" drawn over a "P".

I use words like "Xtian" or "Xtianity" for one simple reason: it's short-hand. And it's a habit I got into from years of posting to religion-themed forums. If people take offense to that, then they're obviously ignorant of the subject and I'd say they thus deserve to be offended.

Besides, since the original New Testament was in Greek, wouldn't it be less offensive to use the first initial of the original name, rather than the name "Jesus"? "Jesus" doesn't even mention the "Christ" (divinity) part, but is itself just a translation of a translation of a translation. I've seen coffe mugs with my so-called "Hawaiian name" on them, but calling me "B" seems closer to the truth than using some foreign translation of my name.

>Another thing Satanists think is Satanic is really
>Christian or Xian is the inverted cross. St. Peter didn't
>want to be crucified right side up or so the story goes
>because he felt it would be an affront to Jesus.

Yes, in fact many sources call this "the Cross of St. Peter". That would be fun to say the next time I see somebody wearing and inverted cross. "Hey, the cross of St. Peter! Are you Catholic?"
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#30599 - 03/09/04 02:26 PM Re: Why "X" isn't inherantly offensive [Re: Bill_M]
Shiboleth Offline


Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 113
Loc: Alberta, Canada
ah I stand corrected, thank you.

"That would be fun to say the next time I see somebody wearing and inverted cross. "Hey, the cross of St. Peter! Are you Catholic?" "

I've done that, the motherfucker got pissed and started ranting "you christians this and that" how little he knew.
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#30600 - 03/09/04 02:29 PM Re: Why "X" isn't inherantly offensive [Re: Bill_M]
Powaqqatsi Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 396
Loc: Hungary
Quote:

Yes, in fact many sources call this "the Cross of St. Peter". That would be fun to say the next time I see somebody wearing and inverted cross. "Hey, the cross of St. Peter! Are you Catholic?"




Caravaggio, who lived around the 1600s, painted "The Crucifiction of St. Peter".

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#30601 - 03/09/04 03:10 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
C_D_McKinna Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 777
Loc: San Diego, CA
I think you are a little confused.

The "X" in the Xtian spelling is the crossing out of Christ.

"Xtoid" (though I never use the term myself) would be similar in meaning as mongaloid.

Why should we, as Satanist, worry about possibly offending christians, or especially othr Satanists by using the word "christian"?

I think these terms are used in the name of bieng offensive, rather than a fear of offending.

In short, those who do use these terms and spellings do so for the sake of fun...and I see nothing wrong with that at all.



Edited by C_D_McKinna (03/09/04 04:18 PM)
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#30602 - 03/09/04 03:41 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: C_D_McKinna]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

In short, those who do thse terms and spellings do so for the sake of fun...and I see nothing wrong with that at all.




I think this depends on the person. Magister Nemo made a few posts a while back about calling a group what they prefer to be called. It was in reference to calling CoS members "pinkies" - but it applies here as well.

I, personally, think that by spelling the name out, just as you would for the name of any other religion, you put it in a completely neutral position. It equalizes. I don't see people abbreviating the name of any other religion frequently, and yes - much in the way that not capitalizing the word "I" may denote a certain kind of insecurity or self depreciation - Xian (etc.) can denote that the user feels threatened by Christianity and feels the need to undermine it in some way. "Christ" is a powerful word for a lot of people in the world. To pretend that, in effect (if not by intent), "X"ing it out is not making a small negative statement about your feelings toward that powerful word and the idea that it represents seems somewhat naive.

With regards to communication, it is not so much what you mean that matters - it's what you say.

I know many people here do simply use this as an abbreviation. And I am not implying that they necessarily feel 'threatened' or 'insecure' about the use of the word Christ. However, no doubt, some do. And that is, like it or not, how it reads to an outsider. Mr. Padgett simply picked this up and mentioned it.

There's no harm in doing it, and I don't think less of other Satanists for doing so.

But this is not the last time this question will be asked. There is a reason why people think this way - no matter what the intent of the author. It will read, to a majority of the population, like you are avoiding using the word Christ, or trying to undermine Christians in some way via language.

Christians undermine themselves, when forced to hold a discussion within a rational framework. This is, I think, much more satisfying.

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#30603 - 03/09/04 04:18 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: DavidP]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
I sometimes don't capitalize a word on purpose. I don't respect christianity for example enough to do so, etc. I'll use " x-tianity " sometimes also, if I'm in a funky mood.

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#30604 - 03/09/04 04:28 PM Re: A rose by any other name? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
C_D_McKinna Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 777
Loc: San Diego, CA
Quote:

In short, those who do thse terms and spellings do so for the sake of fun...and I see nothing wrong with that at all.




That was an interesting contraction of the words "use" and "these," don't you think?

On a more serious note, your post was very well stated, and you made some excellent points.

I do think that the "X" has it's place. Much like the Black Mass and the Infernal Diatribe, treating the terms Christ and Christian in a deragoatory manner can be liberating.

People have good reason to be angry with the Christian Church after all, and the releasing of such pent up anger, even in seemingly insignificant gestures as crossing out the Mad Redeemers name, can help one to move on to bigger and better things.
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