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#30682 - 03/09/04 08:54 PM They just can't get on with their lives...
Magister Frost Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 4627
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Quote:

Those who disparage and belittle the Church of Satan to an obsessive degree reveal their fetish. In reality and practice, by their consuming interest, they reveal their true religion to be—the Church of Satan. Otherwise, they would turn on their heel, walk away, and refuse to subject themselves to that which they need not. Clearly, they need us. We don’t need them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: THE WORLD’S MOST POWERFUL RELIGION by Anton Szandor LaVey




While re-reading this passage it really struck home. Over the last few months there has been an increase in shit-disturbers and general idiots who cannot seem to leave the Church of Satan or its members well enough alone. The above passage really defines the whole reason why. So the next time you notice someone paying a little too much attention to us... you can just sit back and smile knowing full well that they are just wasting their time and accomplishing nothing of significance in their life.
_________________________
=======================================

From Hell,

Magister Frost


---------------------------------------
We're all around you, are you one of Us?
---------------------------------------
- The Church of Satan Emporium
- Satannet.com
- churchofsatan.com

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#30683 - 03/10/04 12:17 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister Frost]
DCAdam22 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 238
Loc: Washington, DC
What boggles my mind is that these people stay in business. I am referring to certain "churches" that I will not dignify with naming here.
Their silly websites remind me of the Ides of March...they pay tribute to Anton LaVey while stabbing his memory in the back.
_________________________
"It's too bad stupidity isn't painful." -Anton Szandor LaVey

"We are all animals, my lady!" -Darkness, "Legend"

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#30684 - 03/10/04 04:17 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister Frost]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Indeed, this particular breed of CoS/LaVey baiter is one of my pet peeves. People that vehemently rant and rave to anyone that will listen that the good docktor was this or that (We all know the textbook baiting routines by now, they are never original) while at the same time attempting to live by a philosophy he codified.
This behavior is interesting in that it displays all 9 Satanic sins at one time.
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#30685 - 03/10/04 04:45 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: DCAdam22]
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
It's an insane cycle.


Party A says: "You're gay cuz you suck and I dont and thats just the way it is" to make himself feel better about his waste of a life, because he knows he has no real ability to fix anything that's wrong with him.

Party B starts a group that facilitates such idiocy, and broadcasts it no less

Party A tells his friend, C, that he found a new group to be a part of that is ten times better than whatever the original is (...Church of Satan), and C, being friends with A is probably just as pathetic and mindless as A and jumps on, with no knowledge of either side, and in the end all you have is a giant pit in your yard full of idiots screaming with angst and no decent way to relieve themselves.


Then again, we're sitting here complaining about them, giving them things to talk shit about. Definitely a no-win situation. Next thing you know their new thing will be "God all they do is sit around and bitch about us", and again with the sycophant remarks. Because that's what we are right, a big group of sycophants and LaVey groupies?

Not that it isn't fun to discuss.


Edited by MentalPause (03/10/04 04:58 AM)

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#30686 - 03/10/04 05:02 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister Frost]
Wile_E_Quixote Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 2493
What I've noticed is that a lot of the most virulant CoS-baiting is a bunch of 2nd hand claims spouted from people that have read certain sites on the internet.


"The Church of Satan is rudderless and lacking in direction since LaVey died."
Strange that people latch onto this rumour as there's a wealth of evidence out there even to the layman that the CoS is alive, well and thriving. Even just viewing this site shows a great many Satanists co-operating for mutual benefit.


"The Church of Satan only has a couple of hundred members."
Where do people get these figures? Surely a more cliched one would be to say that the CoS only has 666 members? Certainly due to CoS secrecy they can only be entirely uneducated guesses,


"The Church of Satan are arrogant individuals who believe that only their Satanism is the true Satanism."
This one's right on the money. 'Arrogance' is probably not the most accurate term, but anyone making that accussation as an attack simply hasn't grasped what Satanism is about.


"LaVey was a con man."
An excellent con man. He conned all the right people.

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#30687 - 03/10/04 05:07 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Wile_E_Quixote]
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
Quote:

"The Church of Satan only has a couple of hundred members."
Where do people get these figures? Surely a more cliched one would be to say that the CoS only has 666 members? Certainly due to CoS secrecy they can only be entirely uneducated guesses,





What's funny is that there's 1257 members on THIS board alone.

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#30688 - 03/10/04 05:18 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Stanton_Vetalas]
Wile_E_Quixote Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 2493
A lot of the "breakaway" groups seem to have built in warning signs into their titles that just scream out pseudo. "The Satanic Reds" are one of the more amusing examples. Satanism doesn't have a political identity, but the individuality defying doctrines of Communism certainly can't be reconciled with Satanic thought. Communism is basically Christian ethics applied to politics. The last thing a Satanist needs is the myth of equality enshrined in law more than it already is.

"The Church Of Satanic Liberation". "The Satanic Kindred Organisation". The next thing will no doubt be "The Church Of Satanic Egalitarianism". Ooops! There I go giving out such good ideas.

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#30689 - 03/10/04 05:21 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Wile_E_Quixote]
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
"Satanic Reds" does seem extremely contradictory.

...........I can't believe there's groups called satanic liberation and kindred organisation. I swear these people will never get over themselves.

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#30690 - 03/10/04 08:30 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister Frost]
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
I agree wholeheartedly.

One site, while claiming to follow what the CoS was originally supposed to be like, has had affiliation with NAMBLA, and if you read their faq section, believe that the age of consent is when a person reached puberty.

How far off track, and how damaging to the name of Satanism are they trying to get?

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#30691 - 03/10/04 11:08 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Wile_E_Quixote]
Shiboleth Offline


Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 113
Loc: Alberta, Canada
** forms First Church of Communist Satanic Egalitarian Onyx Kindred**
_________________________
this is a recording...

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#30692 - 03/10/04 11:11 AM How about.... [Re: Shiboleth]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The First Satanic Popsicle and Diet Pepsi Interdenominational Square-Dancing Evangelical Comedy Club


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#30693 - 03/10/04 11:45 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister Frost]
Isabel23 Offline
CoS Magistra

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 2041
Yessss!

Dr. LaVey certainly zeroes in on the underlying point.

Thank you for reminding me of this, Rev.
_________________________
Isabel
CoS Magistra

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#30694 - 03/10/04 01:27 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister Frost]
Siatris Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/22/01
Posts: 489
Loc: Northern Colorado
How very correct. This has been my attitude towards these organizations and people for a while.

Nice to know the Doktor agrees..

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#30695 - 03/10/04 02:40 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Isabel23]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, that is so true. I don't understand people who hate the CoS. I highly respect the CoS.

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#30696 - 03/10/04 02:58 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Wile_E_Quixote]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Good observations.

Yes, I have run into the people who seem to have been rooting constantly through the anti-CoS material, and for whatever reason, have fallen in love with it. There could be an infinite number of motives behind this. Many of these people seem to want to practice their own brand of (pseudo)Satanism and devil worship and feel peeved at the CoS for not sharing its toys with them, or they realize at some level that they fall below the "Satanic bar," despite their yearnings to reach for it.

Then, there are those who aren't really involved with Satanism or pseudo-Satanism much, yet, for whatever reason, like to think the worst things possible about LaVey and the CoS. Jesus was a great teacher, Buddha was too, and oh, that LaVey guy was a carnie huckster.

Besides that, many of the vehement anti-CoSers I've observed seem to fall into two central groups: the first group consists of those who fell below the "Satanic bar" and are mad that the bar won't and can't come down to meet where they're at, while the second consists primarily of those who had certain standards for the CoS or for Satanists--such as that everybody in the CoS was going to be really bright or really elite, etc.,--and were let down.

A subgroup of the second group consists of those who actually have a vendetta or a beef against one or two CoS members, but who have extended that dislike to encompass the whole church.

I have known a few people who gracefully and nobly left the CoS and/or decided that they weren't even Satanists, so I am not implying that all who don't identify with the CoS or with Satanism are automatically grouped in with the aforementioned crybabies and gits. But these people knew who/what to blame and who/what not to blame for various failings and problems, and took responsibility for their own roles in that. They were able to brush the dust from their feet and move on entirely. They just realized that the CoS didn't have the keys to the door they wanted to open, and, speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

The crybabies and gits, meanwhile, blame others for everything, resent the CoS for not meeting all of their standards and fulfilling every single one of their dreams, and, most revealing of all, continue to hang around and continue to stress about the crappy CoS and all those shitty Satanists, days, weeks, years, and even DECADES later.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#30697 - 03/10/04 03:04 PM Those arrogant Satanists. [Re: Wile_E_Quixote]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
On that subject, for some reason, I've run into people lately who have challenged me on my claims that this brand of Satanism is the only legitimate one. I argue that's it's the only form of the ideology that was formally codified and organized, but that doesn't seem to satisfy people.

I'd like to know, how can I better support my arguments and supply even some hard data so I can feel confident that it's their stupid pigheadedness and not my lack of clarity that is causing disagreements and sparking arguments?
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#30698 - 03/10/04 03:07 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister Frost]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Call it a hunch, Reverend, but if you could or would check some of those shit disturbers' IP addresses, you'd most likely find that it isn't so much that there are lots of them, but that there's a small group of them that are very persistent.

That in itself illustrates the point.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#30699 - 03/10/04 03:32 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: TrojZyr]
Dracul Offline


Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Romania
Maybe some group of xtian fanatics thought that it is their divine quest to recover the lost souls that will end in hell if they spend to much time writting Letters to the Devil.

Since their god Jesus didn't fight to defend himself when he was killed by romans and jews, why do his followers continue to fight here on the internet not to defed but to attack us on this Satanic Domain?

By the way ...their attack sux, since I don't think they managed to convert any of the satanic citizens.

My point is that thay should learn that it is against their bible to wage war agains anybody (even if it is a religious war fought on the internet) and that they have no chance in acomplishing anythnig.
_________________________
"Liberate Tuteme Ex Inferis!"

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#30700 - 03/10/04 03:33 PM Re: Those arrogant Satanists. [Re: TrojZyr]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
1: LaVey was the first to express the principles he did in an explicitly religious context, and it is these principles specifically that he called "Satanism". A deviation from those principles would need a further rationale for using a word already associated with these principles.

2: LaVey had certain specific reasons for calling his principles "Satanism". Most derivative groups either crib his reasons, or ride on the momentum of an association LaVey made. In other words, either their reasons are LaVey's reasons, or else their reason is implicitly "because LaVey did it". Or, as a third option, they believe in Satan as a real entity. I have never seen an original contribution in this respect.

But really, who are you trying to satisfy, and why?

ps. I don't really see it as an issue of "legitimacy". LaVey's Satanism is the only credible flavor for me, and the Church of Satan is the only organization to have distinguished itself to any degree.


Edited by reprobate (03/10/04 03:38 PM)
_________________________
reprobate

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#30701 - 03/10/04 03:38 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives...
Dracul Offline


Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Romania
Is is said by the xtian bible to love everybody, not to hate.
Well then, ...those fellows that disturb us here, certainly do not love us.

Isn't their god who said to bless the ones that curses you. If they would follow this simple rule ...from their bible ...then let us just curse them for we're going to get us blessed.
_________________________
"Liberate Tuteme Ex Inferis!"

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#30702 - 03/10/04 04:10 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: DCAdam22]
Dracul Offline


Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Romania
Those churches will allways stay in business, as there will allways be stupid sheeps attending to their herd.

As I noticed, most of them are the same as xtians ...they just need a god to worship and ...because "the Allmighty Satan" allows them to do things that other religions don't, they just become satanists. But after a while they realize what bad folks they were and they turn to the "good and virtuous xtian god" to ask for forgivness.

But who built those churches?
I notticed that most of their leaders were in some sort of contact with the CoS but because they failed in getting themselves accepted here they preffered to transform their garden shed into a church so they can meet there to worship the big, red, horny guy they call Satan. How can they still clame they follow LaVey?

As for me ...I'd better get buy myself a red suit and a set of horns so they could also pray to me and bring me their offerings ...and maybe I will forgive their sins.

I belive that their websites are too much for what they really are ...like the claims that they have powers and they hold assemblies ...actualy they assemble 2 persons with enough power to turn on the light by pressing the swich.
_________________________
"Liberate Tuteme Ex Inferis!"

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#30703 - 03/10/04 04:22 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Dracul]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
On the contrary they do not disturb me personally at all. I just delete them while drinking my morning coffee.

Really though the Internet has just provided them with a larger soapbox. Shitdisturbers have been here all along except now they just have a bigger mouth and are easier to find. They serve a useful purpose. Those who cannot show the good judgement, intelligence and research skills to see through these morons are certainly not the kind of people the Church of Satan wants anyway. Pseudo Satanic faux internet organizations serve as an idiot filter of sorts. These people are all welcome to go and join an Internet whine fest about how mean the COS is. They can take on names like Imperial Shithead of the Order of the more Enlightened Wise Satanists if they wish. In the end all they are in the real world is a chatroom of malcontent Grimer Wormtongue wannabee's. They will be dealt with as we have ALWAYS been dealing with them for over 35 years now. Just more "Pretenders to the Throne" who you really can't take seriously because of the silly ways they find to present themselves.
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Pretenders.html

HS!
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#30704 - 03/10/04 04:57 PM Re: Those arrogant Satanists. [Re: reprobate]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Mostly, I want to ensure that I can express myself fully and eloquently on the matter, and see if I'm already doing so. No doubt there will always be people who will still be upset even if I am eloquent and precise, but in that case, the ball will be in their court, not mine. I want to check in to see that the ball isn't in my court, because I want to be effective at laying out concepts.

Is there historical proof to back up my argument that no other formally codified, organized, and self-proclaimed/described Satanic groups or dogmas existed before LaVey?

Is there a pithy and effective way in which to shut down arguments in favor of Sean Sellers and Richard Ramirez being Satanists? I generally assert that they (in short form) a) were trying to hijack a term that had already been taken by LaVey b) lacked a formal and organized ideology and c) were insane, so they should not be considered real Satanists. Is there more meat I could add to this?

What example(s) do you use to truly explain or visualize why the name "Satanism" truly fits? I have numerous ones, but I'd like to hear some fresh views on this that aren't just from me.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#30705 - 03/10/04 07:34 PM They do provide a service. [Re: Magister Frost]
HLGwyn Offline


Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 128
Loc: Colorado
This is a dualistic thought due to my optimism.

The antagonisms they offer causes a reaction amongst Satanists. That being one of careful consideration of who is before you. If a person shows satanic qualities, the microscope comes out, and the watermark is checked for authenticity before the buck passes as being suitable.( if one chooses to use said buck)

I am not giving a hearty O.K. to the machinations of those that "ride the boat while pokin' holes in it" shit-disturbers use, but just as stated many times before, there has to be a balance factor, and less than desireable traits are terra-firma to the support of satanic ideals/manifestations.

My uncomfortable third side states that "they" are low and not of much value, but they force the hand at the considerations of real "accomplishment by Satanists" by their negative nature towards Satanism. All lofty feet crunch gravel beneath, but that does not justify anything more than being assured of stature above the grinding and scraping of the path below.

On a personal level, one should easily pick up the crunch of gravel underfoot, and go on their merry path...focused and smiling a cruel smile.

(just ate dinner and restocked the analogy arsenal)

Another service they provide is population control. Consider "them" as Hyenas and Satanists as Lions. They catch the unwary, the infirm, and the foolish young that were of the Satanic pride, and they devour them. That unflinching fact is natural, and keeps the pride healthy. Toss out any human based emotion, and all that is left is nature taking its' course.

Now of course a person can stumble and fall upon the gravel, or find themselves in a closing circle of Hyenas, but the Satanist will regain balance or claw an escape through the murderous pack...all that is required is a solid understanding of the surroundings, and the wits to walk freely without blinders. Total ignorance of them does not lessen the threat, understanding of them enables the threats to be overcome as they pop up.
(I promise I am done this time)

Hail Satan.


Edited by HLGwyn (03/10/04 08:14 PM)

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#30706 - 03/10/04 08:57 PM Re: Those arrogant Satanists. [Re: TrojZyr]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Is there historical proof to back up my argument that no other formally codified, organized, and self-proclaimed/described Satanic groups or dogmas existed before LaVey?


You can't prove a negative, especially when it comes to conspiracies. Who knows what secret group somebody will say their grandma had going in the basement? But the fact is, there is no historical proof to suggest there was anyone doing it before LaVey. (He himself remarked, if there had been such a thing as an organized group calling themselves "Satanists" before 1966, he'd've found 'em.) The burden of proof is on the one who would posit that there was.

Quote:

Is there a pithy and effective way in which to shut down arguments in favor of Sean Sellers and Richard Ramirez being Satanists? I generally assert that they (in short form) a) were trying to hijack a term that had already been taken by LaVey b) lacked a formal and organized ideology and c) were insane, so they should not be considered real Satanists. Is there more meat I could add to this?


Those guys were as reflective of Satanism as Jim Jones was reflective of Christianity.

Quote:

What example(s) do you use to truly explain or visualize why the name "Satanism" truly fits? I have numerous ones, but I'd like to hear some fresh views on this that aren't just from me.


The way I have always put it to myself is that it's a joke in poor taste, at the expense of those whose religion is a pretense and excuse for the intense degree to which they take themselves seriously.
_________________________
reprobate

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#30707 - 03/11/04 12:38 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister_Lang]
Dracul Offline


Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Romania
You are right ...messages are not so disturbing if they can be deleted so easy by the moderator.

There is still one thing that's a little bit more disturbing than their messages. I saw that many of these "pretenders to the throne" have ended in building their own throne ...and now they have the nerve to claim legitimacy over Satanism and over Anton LaVey's teachings. This poor idiots have built "churches" ...I met some of these groups before I found the CoS with doctrines like "Let's worship Lucifer the Big Bad Devil" or "Let's bring Satan my grandmother's black cat as a sacrifice".

Here, in Romania, one of these mad pseudo-satanists that was a soldier in some military unit picked up his gun a killed a couple of his comrades ...after that he comited suicide. Everybody pointed the finger at satanism ...and now, if you try to say that you're a satanist then you're for sure a crazy criminal.
In a small country these thing don't actualy go unnotticed.

For non-satanists is very hard to make a difference between the pretender and the person that's actually sitting on the throne.

As for devil worshipers, especialy for them, I uploaded my new avatar, so now they can see that I'm the big red guy with hornes and a tail. Maybe they'll bow to me ...maybe I'll get some offerings too ...or maybe not?
_________________________
"Liberate Tuteme Ex Inferis!"

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#30708 - 03/11/04 02:52 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Dracul]
Perndog Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 558
Loc: USA
Unfortunately, nothing anyone does is going to make the shitdisturbers stop their act until that mythical day three hundred years from now when all of society is familiar with and tolerant of real Satanism. Better to spend your fifteen minutes making a sandwich than arguing with one of those little trolls; at least that accomplishes something.

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#30709 - 03/12/04 02:09 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister Frost]
SilverHammer Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 1758
Loc: Connecticut
I might as well share some of a dialogue that I recently had with one of these imbeciles. As a show of respect for Rev. Ventrue and good taste in general, I won't add a plug for his website, but it became clear to me early on that he has NO idea what he's talking about:

Quote:


my main purpose of my orginization is to bring all of the left hand paths together. the left hand path has seperated into so many off roads that it has seperated people based on belief. for instance you have the temple of
set which practices egyptian satanism. then you have the crowleyites. and then the list goes one.
michael aquino was one of the doctors best pupils who worked so hard to get the title he has now. lavey on the other hand sold titles to those that were undeserving.
i am sorry if i skip around. i am just typing things as they come into mind. even some of laveys past has been questioned due to his daughter, zeena.
i just prefer not to associate my self with an orginization that is corrupt.
when i became a satanist i started with the satanic bible, due to availability. no i have read all of laveys work and also branched out to the older black magics (la bas, book of black magic, satanism and witchcraft, etc.) and i have paved my own way to the beginning of the left hand path to see the roots.
most of laveys work was stolen in my opinion from sources like the books
mentioned above, might is right, operas, and so on.
without the satanic bible there would not be an above ground satansim, and i thank him for that. but his orginization is not for me.
i would type more but i have bronchitis and dont feel good.

infernally,
rev. m. s.




My response:

Quote:

1. The fact that you believe everything LaVey's detractors have posted on the internet betrays how gullible
you are. Did you know LaVey in his personal life? Were you ever invited to the Black House? Have you
viewed anything off of the internet (which we both know is an absolute bastion of truth! *rolls eyes*) that
verifies the accusations of his neurotic daughter and Dr. Aquino? I haven't.
Furthermore, even if all the rumors about LaVey's personal life and the details of his past were true, what
does that have to do with the CoS or Satanism in general? Have you ever heard logical fallacies such as
argumentum ad hominem?

2. There is nothing Satanic about the Temple of Set. They do not practice "Egyptian Satanism." Ask them
yourself, and they will inform you that they do not consider themselves Satanists, and are trying to distance
themselves from the name. There is only Satanism as defined by Dr. LaVey.
And people who follow Crowley's teachings are called Thelemites. "Crowleyite" is not a word. Do your
homework.

3. You will not be "bringing all of the left hand paths together." Unitarianism for any religion is a ridiculous
pipe dream. There will always be splinter groups, factions, and denominations. Get used to it and pull your
head out of the clouds.

4. Yes, LaVey did plagiarize portions of Might is Right and used John Dee's Enochian Keys in his book.
However both titles were already in the public domain when he did so, therefore he did not infringe on
anyone's copyright. Did you know that in the first publication of TSB, he dedicated it to Ragnar
Redbeard?
Everyone adapts ideas from other sources. LaVey took different aspects of social Darwinism, Ayn Rand,
Nietzsche, and the occult and blended them into his own invention. This does not make him a con man or
a liar. LaVey was more original in his ideas than any occult writer I have ever perused.

5. The CoS is not "corrupt." They give titles based on one's real world accomplishments, rather than ritual
hocus-pocus. A successful musician has accomplished a lot more than a 10th Degree Adept Mage of the
Third Mystical Order of Belial (or some such nonsense).

In my opinion, you are an attention-starved dimwit who is trying to make a name for himself by capitalizing
on the ideas of people far more original and talented than you could ever hope to be. You want to form
your own occult group to give yourself a feeling of power that you lack in any other area of your life.
Eventually you will abandon your moronic pipe dream and find some other equally-stupid venture to try
and inflate your small ego.

Continue this conversation if you want, but understand that this is my opinion of you and it is unlikely to
change. Good night.





His pathetic rebuttal:

Quote:

answers to number 1. if his life was a lie like it has been said to be then the Church of Satan itself was built on a lie. and i dont bother reading all of the he says she says bullshit between the cos and everyone else. all of my opinions have come from my own mind from my own readings.
number 3. it is not a pipe dream. it is all a matter of studies. looking for common links and putting pieces together. it is possible.
number 4, thats still a thief in my book.
number 5. i dont see your logic behind this. a person may have exactly no standpoint in real life and be just an average joe and still accompolish more 'magicly' then one that is a senator. giving a title due to your ranking in life is bullshit. for one fact that senator could be an alcoholic who beats his wife, but in the cos he is a magistre, but our avaerage joe on the other hand who is well educated and smart is just a mage in the cos. fuck that.
and as for your opinion..... i am not some little dimwit who is looking for power. i am a well educated individual who is trying to form an orginization that has no titles, has no definate belief(which would not disclude any due
to belief). you may see it as a pipe dream. also due to not updating the website.... we have 2 active grotos. one in florida, and one in west lafeyette. we are soon branching an egyptian chapter in wisconsin. i will make a prediction here, in say 20 years my orginization will be well known
in the satanic community.
have a good day.




My email to him (at this point I was giggling while typing it):

Quote:


1. The CoS was built on LaVey's principles, not what he did in his life. His principles are not a lie. If you
think the CoS is a LaVey fan club, you are about as perceptive as a brick.

3. You can find links between different schools of thought as much as you want. That doesn't mean you
will unify anything.
Question: if someone showed the Catholics and Protestants that they all essentially believe the same thing,
does that mean they will put aside their differences and join to form one church? Unitarianism goes
completely against human nature. So give up on that proposition because it ain't gonna happen, cowboy.

4. If that's still a thief, then Crowley was a thief as well. And for that matter, so are you.

5. It takes more intelligence and Satanic qualities to be successful in life than it does to achieve a magical
degree. That is why real world accomplishments are applauded by the CoS rather than silly titles. As for
your example about domestic violence and alcoholism, those are both grounds for immediate expulsion
from the CoS. They don't turn a blind eye on anyone's criminal record.

So you want to make predictions about your group? OK, I'll make a more realistic one. In 20 years your
group will have long since fallen apart due to lack of funds, bickering between members, lack of effort, and
disorganization. Have fun while it lasts.




And finally, folks, the whiny, immature, resigned conclusion:

Quote:

i am trying to figure out why you are so against my beliefs. apparently whatever i say is completely wrong. at first your conversation was entertaining, now i am just bored with you. good bye.




Oh, and that "well-educated individual" remark...he had an About Me! page on Ebay (which he has since taken down, once I started emailing him) in which he described how he ran away from home at ten, was sent to reform school for starting fires, and at age twenty three has only now started to clean his life up. High priest, my left buttock.
_________________________
Some boys grow up into men who can look at themselves in the mirror in the morning, and others just go along with the crowd, forgetting after a while that they ever had a choice. ---Roger Ebert

www.myspace.com/savagegod

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#30710 - 03/12/04 06:57 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: SilverHammer]
Wile_E_Quixote Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 2493
Quote:

" i would type more but i have bronchitis and dont feel good. "




Bronchitis in his fingers?!

Interesting look into the swiss-cheese mind of an occult cretin.

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#30711 - 03/12/04 06:58 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: SilverHammer]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Who initiated the exchange? To what end?
_________________________
reprobate

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#30712 - 03/12/04 11:01 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Wile_E_Quixote]
Prince_Satanicus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 1556
Loc: KNOXVILLE, Tennessee, (THE BLA...
Damn, and all this time I thought Bronchitis was in the lungs.Silly Me.
_________________________
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
"The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity"

HAIL SATAN
HAIL ANTON LAVEY
HAIL ME

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#30713 - 03/12/04 12:05 PM Re: Those arrogant Satanists. [Re: TrojZyr]
Helnock Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 724
Loc: Mercia, England
I've been researching this very question with a US CoS member who shares the same passion for history as myself. And our thorough investigations have concluded that that really WASN'T any codified religion called Satanism before 1966.

There were various groups who have been mentioned as "Devil worshipers", mainly in France during the late 1800's. But the actual evidence for these groups is scant, to say the least.

I agree with reprobate that the onus of proof is on those who claim there were Satanic groups pre-1966. Simply say, "Ok, come up with some actual names." They'll come out with all the usual favourites; The Knights Templars, Abbe Boulan, the Cathers, the Hell Fire Clubs, the Bogomils, Aleister Crowley etc., etc. If you're interested in the subject, check out these sorts of people and see that any claims that they were Satanists is total rubbish.

But to be honest, I'd suggest saving your time and simply not dealing with such people. All the people that I've encountered that bring up such people as "proof" that Anton LaVey didn't originate Satanism are "Satanists" who demean LaVey and refuse to give credit where credit is due. Their usual opening line is, "While I appreciate the influence Anton LaVey has had on Satanism..." and when they come up with this sort of line, I stop talking to them. The evidence is there for everyone to see and if they haven't bothered to research the topic then there's no point in proceeding any further. They've obviously made up their own minds, despite the lack of evidence, have blatantly obvious agendas, so I let them get on with it.

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#30714 - 03/12/04 12:12 PM Indeed they can't!... [Re: SilverHammer]
Shem_Hazai Offline


Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 127
Loc: Mon pays, c'est l'Hivers!
Same old shit, with not even a nice different package... People are becoming more and more lazy and/or lame with the decades.

My take on the Temple of Shit is that they are practicing "Egyptian Christianism", and are in no way related to Satanism.

From what I've read and heard, I beleive (yes: the infamous B word) that Her Doktor was actually quite proud of his uncanny competence and abilities as a "con man". I don't see why people would have a problem with that. I would never refute that assertion, even to a "detractor" or a "wannabe" -- it would be a defamation.

You can't deal with that fact, then don't. Nobody asked them to interest themselves with Satanism or the Church of Satan in the first place. Solipcism and stupidity really are sins!

Remember that article in "Satan Speaks" regarding the Devil as the Father of Lies?...

And what's this with the title selling and real world accomplishments?

People seem to think, feel or beleive that they have a say on how the Church of Satan should administrate itself. They don't. As for "real world accomplishments", people seem to equate that with a large bank account...

Most seem to forget that titles are bestowed by administration (Magus Gilmore) at their leisure, not upon request or bought. So what's with this silly argument about selling titles?...

Furthermore, though I'm not the most interactive person on this board, and though I don't associate with people on this board on-line or off-line, I am a member of the Church of Satan and have been for quite some time now. I have also had the privilege and pleasure to have administrative responsibilities within the Church of Satan which has put me in constant contact with Magus Gilmore for a couple of years, and I don't remember of any time or occasion where the amount stached in my bank account were a topic of interest to him or the Church of Satan. Money was never an issue.

"Real world success" doesn't equate with an enormous bank account, though it can. Remember the baker illustration in a "Map for the Misderected"?...

People definitely can't read.

My tantrum regarding all of this. Thanks for indulging me!

HS!
S.

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#30715 - 03/12/04 01:06 PM Re: Those arrogant Satanists. [Re: Helnock]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
To clarify on this point -- there were solitary witches who believed themselves to be specially empowered by the Devil, just like there are random maniacs today who believe they hear the voice of the Devil. It is conceivable, though I've never heard a report I'd trust, that you might find a number of such people who organized rites and covens in the name of the Devil. The trick is, though, that there was no lasting institution, no tradition, and no principle or philosophy to unify them.

The only one I might -- might -- even remotely concede to having a claim to being an avowed Satanist in a principled sense before 1966 is Aleister Crowley, since he did associate with the image of the Beast of Revelations. But his philosophy and its presentation, such as it was, did not draw on that association to any significant degree, and more importantly, it did not influence the way his organization codified itself.

There are ancient mystery cults that had a great deal in common with Satanism, especially the Mystery of Dionysos -- which still had active lodges operating in later Roman times. There is no line of continuity from them that extends to our own era, however.
_________________________
reprobate

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#30716 - 03/12/04 01:24 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: reprobate]
SilverHammer Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 1758
Loc: Connecticut
I will not go into the details of how I discovered this shithead, since some of them are out of the scope of this discussion, but I will say that he is an even bigger liar than these emails demonstrate. I was the one who contacted him. I was well aware that the correspondence wouldn't amount to anything intelligient or worthwhile, but I kept it up mainly for my own amusement. This took place more than two months ago, and I haven't emailed him since.
_________________________
Some boys grow up into men who can look at themselves in the mirror in the morning, and others just go along with the crowd, forgetting after a while that they ever had a choice. ---Roger Ebert

www.myspace.com/savagegod

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#30717 - 03/12/04 10:59 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: SilverHammer]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
The reason I ask is that I've seen a few posts lately, to the effect of, "I went out of my way to amuse myself by engaging with an idiot spouting incorrect opinions by representing the Satanic perspective".

And how that engagement is initiated is important, because we do, after all, have a rule:

"Don't give your opinion unless you are asked."

... And that includes contacting people because of their web sites for the purposes of making fun of them. It doesn't reflect well.

Of course, I don't know the specific details of your contact with this person; it's just an opportunity for me to make a general remark for us all to keep in mind when dealing with poseurs.
_________________________
reprobate

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#30718 - 03/13/04 01:29 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: reprobate]
Citizen_Squish Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/27/02
Posts: 1422
Loc: California
Quote:

The reason I ask is that I've seen a few posts lately, to the effect of, "I went out of my way to amuse myself by engaging with an idiot spouting incorrect opinions by representing the Satanic perspective".




When you argue with an idiot, he is usually doing the same.
_________________________
If people had wings, they would die on their backs, buzzing around in little circles.
-Uncle Fester, "Silent Death"

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#30719 - 03/13/04 04:09 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: reprobate]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I'd tend to agree, Reprobate. I'm sorry to get all high-horsey on those who have been doing this, but I think it is a waste of time to deliberate seek out detractors' websites and try to engage them in an argument. It's like deliberately going into a forest where you know all you'll find are poisonous mushrooms and wads of leeches, when you could just as easily journey through a meadow where you might find tasty tubers and butterflies. That might be fun once or twice, but really, you're probably wasting their time and poking in their lair in ways you'd hate if the shoe was on the other foot, and really, life is too short to always surround yourself with hostile foes and bellicose opposers without a true purpose in mind.

When I've ended up in the debates I mentioned, it was because I was already in neutral ground, I expressed a view or refuted something that was blatantly wrong, and people came out of the woodwork to ask questions or make remarks. But, I don't usually see the value into going into explicitly and obviously hostile territory to toss around the mud.

There is something to be said for venturing into hostile or opposing territory as a spy or observer, and perhaps stirring the pot slowly and subtly, but that approach requires a scalpel rather than a baseball bat.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#30720 - 03/14/04 01:15 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: SilverHammer]
DCAdam22 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 238
Loc: Washington, DC
Those letters are pretty funny. Note how he got bored with you once you'd torn his logic apart. At any rate I can't see what's really accomplished by arguing with people like that. You can't make them see "the light" (or in this case, darkness) of what Satanism is about. And honestly I wouldn't want too! The CoS does not need people like that!
But it is amusing. And the frightening part is his organization really COULD be here 20 years from now...a sucker is born every minute! After all, that's how a certain "Temple" stays in business
_________________________
"It's too bad stupidity isn't painful." -Anton Szandor LaVey

"We are all animals, my lady!" -Darkness, "Legend"

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#30721 - 03/15/04 10:35 PM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: DCAdam22]
Dracul Offline


Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Romania
As long as suckers are being born and they keep the donnations and offering flowing toward the Unholy Temple, it would be nice to have it in bussines for even more than 20 years.
I once had an ideea, I still have it but I put it on "Hold" as I have more important bussines first, that idea was to invent a religion suitable to every idiot ...and all this just because I found out that even little xtian churches get lots of cash from their loyal followers. Of course that the funds are managed by the unholy priest wich would use it "to the good of the church" ...and it is in the church's best interest that it's unholy father get everything he wants. Just imagine ...how can he preach the word of god without a new sports car?
_________________________
"Liberate Tuteme Ex Inferis!"

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#30722 - 03/17/04 11:53 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister Frost]
Xerx Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/09/02
Posts: 656
Loc: Italy
Also in Italian, from my underground site:

http://it.geocities.com/zerz_cos/MostPowerIT.htm

Hail Satan!
Xerx
_________________________
smile smile

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#30723 - 03/18/04 10:53 AM Re: They just can't get on with their lives... [Re: Magister Frost]
III Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 236
You should have posted this instead of a welcome message.

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