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#307495 - 02/17/08 12:57 AM Thank you! [Re: reprobate]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12599
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I was going to post much the same thing but you explained it much better than I could.

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#307504 - 02/17/08 04:44 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: The_Magician13]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10581
Loc: England
>> Excuse me but i don't think i am wrong...at least here in Romania this is how the thing goes.I shall try to post some essays of this subject <<

Please don't. Heard it all before. Not interested.
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#307514 - 02/17/08 06:39 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: TheDegenerate]
The_Magician13 Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 10
I don't demand anything ,i just ask for your knowledge...So what about this?"Satanism,the christian good and evil did not exist as an activity until the XVII century.In the times of Louis XIV took place the biggest satanic ceremony(as number of participants and structure)and all being organized by the king's mistress Madamme de Montespan and led by an ocultist named La Voisin and a libertin priest of 67 years old named Abbe Guiborg".This can't be denied.Comments?And please take notice that i am not arogant, i just want to find out the truth.And the things mentioned above kind of contradictes your theory...
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#307529 - 02/17/08 08:30 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: The_Magician13]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
 Originally Posted By: The_Magician13
I don't demand anything ,i just ask for your knowledge...So what about this?"Satanism,the christian good and evil did not exist as an activity until the XVII century.In the times of Louis XIV took place the biggest satanic ceremony(as number of participants and structure)and all being organized by the king's mistress Madamme de Montespan and led by an ocultist named La Voisin and a libertin priest of 67 years old named Abbe Guiborg".This can't be denied.Comments?And please take notice that i am not arogant, i just want to find out the truth.And the things mentioned above kind of contradictes your theory...


That was not Satanism. That was a party with a theme.


For many centuries the Christian Church scared people with false stories of evil witches who worked for the Devil. The details oh their alleged ceremonies were all Christian fabrications, there was no satanic religion out there.

Some time later, groups of people started using those same fake details in their own ceremonies, like the one you mention. But they did it just as a form of rebellion against religious authority. They were basically doing the opposite of what the Christians were supposed to do, so they mimicked the false "satanic" ceremonies described by the Christian priests. But those people didn't have a codified religion named "Satanism". They were doing it mostly for the fun and their ceremonies usually were just an excuse to have some sex.

So, before Anton LaVey, there was not a religion named satanism, with set of rules, a philosophical system, an official book and so on.

That's why it is correct to say that even if they were some groups with vaguely "satanic" orientation in the past, Anton LaVey was the creator of Satanism as a religion.
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You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
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#307545 - 02/17/08 09:04 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: The_Magician13]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
For chrissakes!

 Quote:
"Satanism,the christian good and evil did not exist as an activity until the XVII century.In the times of Louis XIV took place the biggest satanic ceremony(as number of participants and structure)and all being organized by the king's mistress Madamme de Montespan and led by an ocultist named La Voisin and a libertin priest of 67 years old named Abbe Guiborg".This can't be denied.Comments?


You do not want my comments, although Tha Pig was pretty accurate (and damned funny) in saying it was a party with a theme.

What your post, Magician, reveals is that you have a set in stone belief structure--you already believe that there are different kinds of Satanism, and that these stories of historical Christian heresy support that belief.

We have no need to change your mind.

Anyone who can look at Christian Heresy and mistake it for a codified religion is not someone who genuine Satanists will waste a great deal of time arguing with.

I suppose children reciting Bloody Mary in the 19th Century is further evidence of an organized form of Demonology, too.

IF there are no other topics you wish to post about, I strongly suggest you go to a place where others also think Christian Heresy is evidence of organized Satanism---like, say, the Catholic Church.

AS for all the people who were kind/bored enough to respond to Magician, and give him honest answers---you guys tried, valiantly, but this one has a specific agenda and a library card, and if you keep feeding this one, he will bleed Michelet et. al. dry, and we'll all be a good deal older and more frustrated before it is over.

Y~

Y~


Edited by Ygraine (02/17/08 09:12 AM)
Edit Reason: Because I can
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#307552 - 02/17/08 09:28 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: Ygraine]
The_Magician13 Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 10
[[[Disrespectful remarks regarding Magistra Ygraine's careful and knowledgeable response deleted by High Priestess Nadramia.]]]





Edited by MagistraNadramia (02/17/08 12:29 PM)
Edit Reason: Keep a civil tongue in your head in our lair or suffer the consequences.
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#307558 - 02/17/08 09:47 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: The_Magician13]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Dr. LaVey wrote about LaVoisin in "The Black Mass" chapter of THE SATANIC BIBLE.

Your meter is winding down.
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Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#307561 - 02/17/08 10:02 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: The_Magician13]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8275
That's it. I've had it with you personally and people like you who refuse to crack open a book and study. I could go on.

Get out. Go away. Go bother pagans.
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"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


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#307563 - 02/17/08 10:10 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: Phineas]
The_Magician13 Offline


Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 10
So that's it?You send me away without even give me an explaination?It is very strange how things go around here...Well,this is how you make your reputation.I shall do what you want and leave.But know this, i won't give up this easy and i will carry on with my "quest".I may come back to you if someone proves me i am wrong.
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"To live is to die slowly"

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#307568 - 02/17/08 10:23 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: The_Magician13]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
 Originally Posted By: The_Magician13
Even in fiction novels like Anne Rice's books we can find that satanism existed centuries ago.


I guess that also mean vampires and walking mummies are real...
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You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


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#307571 - 02/17/08 10:34 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: The_Magician13]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
Your questions have been answered.

You disagree.

You wish to continue to debate.

That is not the purpose of this forum.

You believe that history supports your view of Satanism. We disagree and have stated why.

orgive me if I don't view Anne Rice as an authority on anything other than fiction---and even then, not so much.

You accept Christian heresy and devil worship as legitimate Satanic practices and proof of pre-LaVeyan Satanism. We do not.

Your views are your own and you are welcome to them. Somewhere else. There are thousands of websites that will entertain your notions. This isn't one of them.

You claim to want to enlarge your knowledge of Satanism, let me nutshell it for you:

The Church of Satan does not recognize any other form of Satanism, and this forum is run by and for members and those in accord with Church of Satan dogma.

Now, you know who we are and what we accept.

You disagree.

The debate is over.

You can stick around and get the same answer over and over again, or you can go elsewhere where your views might be met with less disdain.

I can promise you that no one here will have a revelation start worshiping the devil.

Please, be a gentleman, accept that our views and yours do not mesh, and leave to find something more akin to your view.

Ygraine
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#307572 - 02/17/08 10:37 AM Re: The satanic groups [Re: The_Magician13]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
 Originally Posted By: The_Magician13
I may come back to you if someone proves me i am wrong.


The fact of the matter is that you should not rely on someone else to show you why you are wrong.

You should find that out for yourself, through study.
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"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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