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#307814 - 02/18/08 03:48 PM Jewelry Restoration?
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
I have a few Baphomets that I coated with nail polish. It worked for a little while but now the silver is starting to change color to green-oxidizing? It has been awhile since I coated it so I am not sure that it is the nail polish or just age.
How can I get the green to go away - if I can?
Can a jeweler restore the silver in the lines?
Thanks ahead of time.

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#307818 - 02/18/08 04:11 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
Paging Elainatoir! Dr Atoir, to the ritual chamber please.


Edited by Scion (02/18/08 04:12 PM)
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#307821 - 02/18/08 04:22 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Scion]
Damaeon96 Offline
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Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Kentucky
All you need is some silver polish and a cheese cloth. Also check the purity of the silver and be careful if there's paint near the area your trying to fix.
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#307831 - 02/18/08 05:12 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Scion]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
WHAT?!

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#307836 - 02/18/08 05:30 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
eduardogallegos Offline


Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Guadalupe, Nuevo Leˇn, MÚxico

I think it looks as such any jewelry you see in the polishing and repair what can color green is very rare because it is silver, it just happens to the metal or iron imitation never seen what happened that with the silver but according and also saw that the silver come as a crust similar to the color you mentioned with a polished fix it, and I recommend that the jewelry buying a special liquid to clean silver with moisture as it passes

Greetings!
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#307872 - 02/18/08 07:17 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2195
Any abrasive cleaner or polish would cause the original finish to remove. I would probably get new ones then clean them with warm, soapy water and a soft brush.
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#307889 - 02/18/08 08:51 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
Philotechnic Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 745
Loc: NC, US
I have a friend who's is doing the same. Mine stays very clean and shiny though.

Good luck on finding something to polish it with.

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#307919 - 02/18/08 11:04 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
Coating your Baphomets with nail polish was a wise decision. In the future, you may wish to consider using Krylon clear enamel (available at most hardware stores in a spray paint style can) or Renaissance Wax. I use both on a regular basis, and can explain the application process if you wish. However, any protective coating will wear off over time, which is why your silver is changing color.

Sterling silver is a fine silver/copper alloy. The the oxidation of the copper explains the green-oxidizing (think of old copper roofs). Oxidation is only occurs at the surface level and is completely removable. The ideal solution would be for you to have a jeweler do a clean & polish. They should use various grits of sandpaper, a lapidary wheel, and several grades of buffing abrasives to remove all signs of wear and restore it to like new condition. It is important that the jeweler you go to has experience with silver, gold is much easier to clean and maintain. You could also request that they raise the fine silver (a.k.a. depletion guild when referring to gold), which would remove the copper from the surface of the Baphomets so that there is a layer of fine silver on top (which oxidizes much slower than sterling).

I don't have enough information to tell you exactly what to do, but I will make a few suggestions that will hopefully be helpful. If the green is simply on the surface, you should be able to remove it using a brief dip in a commercially available silver cleaner followed by hand-buffing with a red rouge polishing cloth (I use the Sunshine brand). If the greenish color is in the recessed areas AND your Baphomets have a satin/brushed/matte finish, you can use toothpaste and a soft-bristled toothbrush, followed with the rouge cloth. If your Baphomets have a mirror finish/high polish using any abrasive (including toothpaste) will ruin the finish (chances are this isn't an issue, if they've been worn enough that the nail polish has come off a high polish will have vanished a long time ago). Oxidation occurs more slowly on pieces that have a high polish because there is no "tooth" for the oxidation to hold on to.

I think about and work with jewelry for the vast majority of my day, even my free time. Bring up jewelry or metalworking and I'll be talking for hours. If you have any other questions, I'm around.

P.S. Thanks for the page Scion ... but do you really think I'd gloss over a post with the word jewelry in the title? ;\)
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#307962 - 02/19/08 03:12 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Scion]
Xaira Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 142
Loc: South Carolina
I thought the exact same thing.
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#307967 - 02/19/08 03:48 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11546
Loc: New England, USA
While on this subject, many years back I bought a sterling silver Sigil of Baphomet necklace which had some sort of black enamel filled in all the spaces. In recent years, the enamel has started to chip and break off. I've seen rings of the same style where the same thing happened. I bought mine YEARS ago at the CoS Emporium and as I understand it this line has been long discontinued.

Has anybody had this same style and repaired it? I'll probably just end up taking it to a local jewelry store anyway, but I was just curious.
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#307991 - 02/19/08 07:10 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: AurEum]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
Awesome! I could try to do this at home, although I could send it out, I am willing to pay quite a bit to have it fixed but the huge problem is that I don't want to send it out. It is my medallion from the High Mass in 06. These items you talk about-can they be found at Wal-Mart?
Thanks again, I was thinking I was going to have to throw them out!

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#307994 - 02/19/08 07:31 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
Walmart should have a silver dip/cleaner in the jewelry section. Just make sure the dip is brief (if you leave it in too long it can actually strip the silver off and leave a brownish copper residue on the surface). I would purchase a soft toothbrush designed for babies or toddlers, if the brush is too hard it will cause scratches. Walmart will probably have a polishing cloth in the jewelry section, but I can't vouch for the quality of theirs. I mail order a lot of my supplies from Rio Grande, although it might not be exactly easy for you to get an account with them (they sell to professionals and trade students). They also carry the Renaissance Wax that I mentioned and you should be able to pick up the Krylon during a trip to home depot.

This should remove the oxidation, but will not remove scratches or other signs of wear. You would get the best results sending it out, but I understand your hesitation to do so. Best of luck!
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** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#307997 - 02/19/08 07:38 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Bill_M]
AurEum Offline
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Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
Do you have a picture ? The reason I ask is because there are two different types of enamel. There is the original ground glass particles that are fused to the metal (as in champleve, cloisonne, or baisse taille enameling). There are also low-fire enamels, that are still glass. Additionally, a lot of people refer to tinted epoxy-resin as enamel. I could explain the steps for doing a repair for each type of enamel, but there is a substantial learning curve. Unless you want to delve into the world of enameling and related metalsmithing, I would suggest sending it out to get repaired. Most repairs (even with traditional glass enamel) will be done using tinted epoxy-resin because there are too many unknown variables when dealing with a mystery enameled piece, unless you can obtain more (i.e. very specific) information from the CoS Emporium about what materials were used. As a side note, enamel repairs are often considered custom repairs and can be expensive.
_________________________
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#308001 - 02/19/08 08:13 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: AurEum]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
No the enamel is fine. I have had enamel from my other baphomets chip before but that doesn't happen now that I have coated them with nail polish.
The only thing wrong with them is the silver lines of the baphomet are going green.
Anyway I believe the type of enamel is Cloisonne-but like I said the enamel is fine. I am worried though that if I don't fix the silver parts it will ruin the enamel eventually.
I forgot that there is a Michael's over the hill so I will probably find what I need there.
I think at this point I may be able to polish it like you suggested.

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#308007 - 02/19/08 08:35 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
I'm glad Elaiontoir posted - hopefully my post looks less like the ravings of a madman to you now DickSteele.
_________________________
All Hail Satan, for I shall ever be his mouth in this blessed and righteous Kingdom of the United!

"Don't you see? If the gays can get married then the whole institution of marriage will be destroyed! Society will crumble! Rivers will run red with blood! And Nazis will walk the earth riding dinosaurs!" Princess Clara, the unsung voice of the Christian right.

www.vampiretemple.com - are you one of us?

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#308010 - 02/19/08 08:41 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Scion]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
I forgot to reply-OOOOOHHHHH YEEEEAHHH, now I know!
Thanks for paging Elaiontoir, very helpful!

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#308031 - 02/19/08 10:03 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
You are quite welcome, Warlock.
_________________________
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#308051 - 02/19/08 11:07 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: AurEum]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11546
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: ealaiontoir
Do you have a picture ? The reason I ask is because there are two different types of enamel. There is the original ground glass particles that are fused to the metal (as in champleve, cloisonne, or baisse taille enameling). There are also low-fire enamels, that are still glass. Additionally, a lot of people refer to tinted epoxy-resin as enamel.

I think it might be the first kind. It's very shiny and smooth, and the surface rolls inward as you pull away from the surrounding metal. You can see on the bottom where some of it has chipped off. It's become really brittle now.


Attachments
my_sigil_necklace.jpg


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Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

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#308053 - 02/19/08 11:12 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
One question, are the Baphomets silver metal, or actual silver?

If they are actual silver then you may want to try something different, that doesn't require polishing or a jeweler.

Take a coke can and cut of the top half. Abrade the inside with steal wool. Place the coke can in a pan filled to about half the height of the remainder of the coke can, and fill the coke can to the same height. Now place about 1-2 teaspoons of baking soda in the coke can along with the Baphomet. Apply gentle heat on the stove (a setting at about 1 will do), and watch. Mind you this will only work with actual silver!!!!!


Edited by Jack_Lantern (02/19/08 11:17 AM)
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#308060 - 02/19/08 11:35 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Bill_M]
AurEum Offline
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Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
Unfortunately it is still difficult for me to tell by looking at the picture what type of enamel it is. You may be able to tell, epoxy-resin has the slightest bit of "give" to it when pushed against, where as glass enamel does not. Both traditional enamel (cloisonne) and tinted epoxy-resin would build up near the raised portion of the metal. Ideally any type of "enamel" would be built up to at least the surface level of the metal, possibly even a bit higher and would be "stoned" down so that the enamel and the metal are completely flush. This would prevent cracking and flaking, assuming of course that the piece is well cared for and is not dropped.

The light green color in the picture under where the black has come off leads me to think that this is in fact actual glass enamel, the light green color would be caused by the interaction between the silver and the transparent enamel that is first laid down on most traditional enameled pieces. If it is in fact glass enamel, and you are able to find out what temperature the enamel was fired at and if it is lead-bearing or lead-free, you can request that it be repaired with glass enamel. I would suggest you use a jeweler who is also an enamelist, the average repair jeweler will not know how to do this type of repair (and could potentially destroy the piece). It could also be repaired with tinted epoxy-resin, which would be seamless to the naked eye. There would be slight variance in the way that it responds to pressure (see above), but visually it will not be detected.


Edited by ealaiontoir (02/19/08 11:39 AM)
_________________________
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#308267 - 02/20/08 12:50 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: AurEum]
Doctor_Beat Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/06/06
Posts: 282

Strange as it may sound, a good way to distinguish glass from resin would be to gently tap it against one of your teeth.
Resin will feel 'plasticy', as if your tooth could scratch it, but glass will feel very hard.
It's hard to describe, but you'll understand if you try it.

I have used this technique to tell if the crystal on old watches is glass or acrylic.
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#308269 - 02/20/08 12:58 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Doctor_Beat]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
It probably wouldn't work with my teeth-I have dentures.

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#308299 - 02/20/08 04:15 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Doctor_Beat]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
That's a good idea, and I know a lot of people who do it. It's also the "industry standard" way for determining if pearls are simulated or real.

Personally, it's not something that I do. Epoxy-resin & enamels are both very toxic (as is the nacre on pearls). Granted, so little would probably scrape off that it wouldn't be a big deal, but I'd rather be over cautious. There are other ways of determining what something is, but unfortunately that requires a degree of training and a discerning eye.
_________________________
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#308351 - 02/20/08 11:08 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: AurEum]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11546
Loc: New England, USA
I tried my best with the photo, but I know the photo still doesn't reveal as much. I'll look around for an enamelist. Thanks a lot for your help!
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http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
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#308355 - 02/20/08 11:40 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Bill_M]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
Anytime! \:\)
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** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#308673 - 02/22/08 11:28 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
fatebender Offline
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Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 537
Loc: Sin City
The problem with silver is that no matter what you coat it with, it will still tarnish. Oxidation, once it begins, is an internal process which will "bubble" to the surface. Exposure to sulphur aggrivates it.

Continued polishing of the amulets could wear away the detail over time, but using a dip doesn't do as much damage. Tarn X works, and is readily available. You'll still need to polish them sometimes.

There is a new sterling which never tarnishes called "Argentium Sterling" which is an amalgam with germanium (instead of nickel.) I suggest it for any new silver projects. The extra cost is negligible.
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#308726 - 02/22/08 03:36 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: fatebender]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
If you believe that oxidation is an internal process I suggest that you test your belief. Take a piece of oxidized silver and cut it open. Examine the exposed area and the inside area that has not previously been exposed to the atmosphere.

***

Silver will not tarnish if it is coated. Tarnish is caused by oxidation, the process of the metal interacting with the oxygen in the atmosphere. If there is a protective barrier, oxidation will not occur. Protective barriers will need to be reapplied because they will wear off over time.

Of course excessive polishing will wear down the metal. Polishing is an abrasive process.

You are correct that Argentium Silver does not contain nickel, but neither does traditional Sterling Silver. Traditional Sterling Silver is an alloy of 92.5% Fine Silver and 7.5% Copper (which is why Sterling Silver is stamped .925). Argentium Silver is a type of Sterling Silver (it holds the same fine silver to non-precious metal ratio), but it is alloyed with Germanium instead of Copper.

I have worked with numerous alloys, including Argentium Silver. The cost is not what concerns me, several of its working properties are undesirable. It is better suited to some applications, but certainly not others. I would be careful about making a blanket recommendation concerning this (or any other) alloy.
_________________________
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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