Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#307931 - 02/19/08 12:25 AM about the satanic bible
clermont Offline


Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 3
while reading the satanic bible I was first fascinated by La vey's anylisis and found them quite similar if not identical to mine.
I salute his honesty in the first pages where he states that the book is about both fiction and reality
what I found to be contradictory:
1-If someone hurts you then he/she is asking to be destroyed, a masochist who is afraid of you and who decided to harm you, he then must be punished.
what if I modestly say, in a given situation, I was afraid.
the carnal creatures are cunnning and can smell fear, it makes them agressive for fear is contagious.
A "victim" who happened to be around me smelled that fear and instinctively got agressive with me.
Now, I for one will retaliate to any attack if i see it to be powerful enough to destroy me
But in a way I did generate fear at that time in this place
now where do you draw the line between the just and the strong?
In other words, wouldn't it be normal to harm someone who's in fear, as carnal beings, for fear is contagious ?
would it be unjust to harm someone who wants to contaminate us with his or her own fear?

2-throughout the fulfillement of the ego, the celebration of earthly pleasures (which I enjoy), I couldn't help noticing the absence of compassion
The compassion for human suffering
Where do satanists stand when it comes to misery caused by fatality like hunger, disease or oppression etc.

All so far,
yours

Top
#307934 - 02/19/08 12:28 AM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: clermont]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10118
would it be unjust to harm someone who wants to contaminate us with his or her own fear?

I think you'd find it a flimsy excuse in court to say the least.

But, if you mean legal forms of misfortune brought on them, I really don't care who you do it to or why. Maybe they just look funny to you, that's your business - if it's legal.

Where do satanists stand when it comes to misery caused by fatality like hunger, disease or oppression etc.

I support them wholeheartedly.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

Top
#307936 - 02/19/08 12:30 AM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: clermont]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
I'm curious, how do you interpret the meanings of "destroy" and "harm?"
_________________________
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

Top
#307937 - 02/19/08 12:39 AM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: AurEum]
clermont Offline


Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 3
no but court neglects instinctive reactions and judges their effect
dont you agree that someone who is harmed is responsible for attracting harm? i cant be more precise
there's a very clear distinction between the just and the unjust in the book
im trying to see what you mean by unjust, someone who inflicts pain deliberately?

Top
#307938 - 02/19/08 12:51 AM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: clermont]
clermont Offline


Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 3
you dont feel the duty to help someone you dont know if that person's in pain? you support her wholeheartedly?

Top
#307940 - 02/19/08 01:04 AM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: clermont]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
A person with a masters degree in psychology once spoke to me on the matter. He said; is it your problem? If not why take it on to your self?

Selfish yes, but Satanism embraces this wholeheartedly. Dr.LaVey even said it's a very selfish religion.

I maybe wrong but is there not something written on compassion in The Satanic Bible? From what I recall Dr.LaVey stated that if helping someone makes you happy then go for it. Just don't be a tool, don't let people use you.

Top
#307951 - 02/19/08 01:44 AM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: clermont]
SicFaith Offline


Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 23
 Originally Posted By: clermont
you dont feel the duty to help someone you dont know if that person's in pain? you support her wholeheartedly?


I myself consider the following factors:
1. Am I in danger when helping someone I don't know who is in pain?
2. Am I by law required to help? (for example, car accidents etc. to my knowledge overhere it's a crime to drive BY and not give aid.)
3. 1: no? 2: no? ...can I be arsed?
_________________________
*** Hail Satan! ***

Top
#308021 - 02/19/08 09:19 AM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: clermont]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3968
Loc: The Deep South
 Originally Posted By: clermont
Where do satanists stand when it comes to misery caused by fatality like hunger, disease or oppression etc.


I stand away.
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


Top
#308034 - 02/19/08 10:17 AM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: clermont]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11535
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: clermont
would it be unjust to harm someone who wants to contaminate us with his or her own fear?

I see that you like the old game of trying to reconstruct some elabroate hypothetical situation in hopes of finding a philosophical loophole. Self preservation is the highest law in Satanism. There's no need to get tricky about it and demand absolutes. Leave the moral absolutes to the "God" religions.

 Originally Posted By: clermont
I couldn't help noticing the absence of compassion
The compassion for human suffering

Then you need to reread the book (assuming that you really are reading it in the first place like you say you are). There is an entire "Conjuration of Compassion" rite, with a full description of how it's used and implemented. There is also this quote:

"Each person must decide for himself what his obligations are to his respective friends, family, and community. Before donating his time and money to those outside his immediate family and close circle of friends, he must decide what he can afford, without depriving those closest to him. When taking these things into consideration he must be certain to include himself among those who mean most to him. He must carefully evaluate the validity of the request and the personality or motives of the person asking it of him."
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

Top
#308042 - 02/19/08 10:36 AM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: clermont]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: clermont


2-throughout the fulfillement of the ego, the celebration of earthly pleasures (which I enjoy), I couldn't help noticing the absence of compassion
The compassion for human suffering
Where do satanists stand when it comes to misery caused by fatality like hunger, disease or oppression etc.




Since I have seen this particular issue come up from time to time…not just in this forum, but also in conversations offline (I know…it is NOT a mythological creature), I will add my two cents worth about “compassion”. Compassion is to understand where someone is coming from…his or her feelings.

If that were the end of the story, I would have no problem with it. However, there is a crusade by religions, the media and individuals with weak ego boundaries to try to use compassion as an excuse for universal empathy. It is impossible for a healthy individual to empathize with someone they do not know. Understanding how it feels to be hungry, sick or to lose a loved one does not mean there is a reason to take that pain on. That is the responsibility of the person experiencing the pain. If I am the person suffering, I have to deal with it. If the person is someone I love, or choose to befriend, or someone I choose to relate to, I can do what I can to support and help him or her, as long as it does not drag me to his or her level. Imagine a group traveling from one place to another for food; and, time is of the essence. If a member of that group falls down, whoever stops to help will also be left behind.

Compassion, as understood by many, is the halt of progress for everyone who lags behind. To stop for your child, loved one or compatriot…that is understandable. To stop for absolutely everyone…regardless of whether they have the strength to make it or not…is not too smart. Universal compassion is foolish.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

Top
#308118 - 02/19/08 03:17 PM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: clermont]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Why should Satanists have to be in the position to defend themselves? No, you explain to me why YOU think human suffering (in general) is worthy of my compassion.

Really, how exactly do you mean?
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

Top
#308121 - 02/19/08 03:24 PM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: clermont]
ConquerOrPerish Offline


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 228
Loc: DC Metro Area
 Originally Posted By: clermont
I couldn't help noticing the absence of compassion for human suffering
Where do satanists stand when it comes to misery caused by hunger, disease or oppression etc.


It sounds like you are talking about human waste. Compassion is useless and often makes matters worse. Read my second signature below. Think about the economy. Poverty was decreasing sharply until the War on Poverty and its wealth transfers starting in 1965, at which point poverty stagnated and then INCREASED. This is in spite of the fact that when you adjust for inflation, average household income has more than doubled. That is a total disaster and that's where empty morals get you. Rational self-interest is the key. "Responsibility to the responsible" works for everyone. For example I network with you, you have a job lead, in the future I hire you.

As for the oppressed, who are these "oppressed"? I sincerely hope you're not talking about Americans. Oppression is a state of mind. Many of these "oppressed" groups wield ENORMOUS power via special interest groups that look for constitutional loopholes at everyone else's expense, literally. They have an OVERWHELMING sense of entitlement not to be criticized or offended coupled with a flippant sense of entitlement to criticize and offend those who they wish to be protected against. They know EXACTLY what they are doing. They are part of the vicious animal species known as human and are therefore not in the least bit interested in equality.
_________________________
"I, even I, am my own redeemer". -Ragnar Redbeard

"Making a difference makes sense only if you are convinced that you have mastered the subject at hand to the point where any difference you might make would be for the better." -Thomas Sowell


Top
#308123 - 02/19/08 03:26 PM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
IRI Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Canada
 Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Compassion is to understand where someone is coming from…his or her feelings.

Compassion, as understood by many, is the halt of progress for everyone who lags behind. To stop for your child, loved one or compatriot…that is understandable. To stop for absolutely everyone…regardless of whether they have the strength to make it or not…is not too smart. Universal compassion is foolish.


Roho, your words should be carved in stone! Very well said.

IRI
_________________________
"Sheep to the right, Goats to the left"

"Where do people in Hell tell each other to go?"

"If we are all gods children, why is Christ so special?"

Top
#308128 - 02/19/08 03:43 PM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: IRI]
IRI Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Canada
An illustrated note on compassion:



IRI
_________________________
"Sheep to the right, Goats to the left"

"Where do people in Hell tell each other to go?"

"If we are all gods children, why is Christ so special?"

Top
#308142 - 02/19/08 04:42 PM Re: about the satanic bible [Re: IRI]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Now that is funny.
True...but funny.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Forum Stats
12019 Members
73 Forums
43828 Topics
405224 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements