After reading about this interesting (and a bit far fetched )
belief in creation by aliens, I actually wondered if one can belong to both religions.
Why not?
I don't see why one can't believe in those stories and still practice the philosophies of Anton LaVey at the same time.
I like their support of the advancement of science.

Anyone wanna share their thoughts?

I DO thnk the Raelians are a very interesting case of atheists who deny the science of evolution. I like to bring them in as an example of that in debates, when people (atheist, christian, or otherwise) make the sweeping generalization that atheism requires an understanding of science. "Atheism" means nothing more than "no blief in deity".

Back to the original question: are the two compatible? Well, having a belief that the human race was put here by outer space aliens (or were some kind of alien cross-breed), does not, in and of itself, contradict anything in the Satanic Bible. The Church of Satan has no official stance regarding human origins (and if somebody from the priesthood can correct me on this, please do so). Because ultimately, as The Satanic Bible hints, this doesn't matter. Humans are animals, and it doesn't matter where we came from, but how we want our individual lives to go.

I am, however, suspicious of what truly fuels the belief in such a wild story in the first place. I do think that a good number of "God" believers are driven by the need to feel special and validated by a special creator of sorts, instead of by individual merit. In this sense, it could be quite anti-Satanic if Raelian beliefs were fueled by the same types of feelings.

I also admittedly don't know much about Raelism's beliefs beyond the put-here-by-aliens thing. I don't know if, for example, they have a dogmatic moral code or anything else that might contradict something like the 9 Statements.

Personally, I think one has to be practically illiterate to deny biological evolution. The overwhelming evidence is there if you just read up on the subject. Every person I've met who denies evolution, has always done so due to a gross misundertanding of what it's about.

Thank you for your intelligent answer, it helped me learn something new about CoS.

However, I do not think they deny evolution. They believe that extraterrestrials started life on Earth which evolved. An interesting part of their story is that the aliens were mistaken for gods when they came down to the ancient people.
The little I know about their other beliefs include the fact that they strongly support such scientific pursuits as cloning and stem cells which has given them controversial status and a bit of resentment from others(crappy people I don't give much respect to).

Interesting, but theory to me is theory. Do they have anything to support their hypothesis or some studies they do? I'd like to look into it, you got me curious. http://www.rael.org/ is their official website, correct? I don't always trust popular sources.

EDIT: Whether or not that's the real website I've concluded that I don't buy it. It's possible yes, but they lack evidence and state that the messages of monotheistic religions were the messages of this alien race of humans. We were created in their image using DNA. Personally I find people who believe Real to be out of touch with reality. Does not seem logical to me, at all.

After all, who here believes those people who claim that God talks to them? I doubt many do thought some of us like my self accept the possibility there's truth to it. Until it's proven however I'm not about to support their cause or do what they tell me to. Even when all is proven I still might not buy into it if it does not have my best interests in mind.

Aliens put man-kind on planet earth?

Okay, its possible. There's no evidence to support the claim but there's nothing to refute it either.

Upon reading a little further on the raelian movement, it states that there is a "supernatural" god and that the "prophets" from all of man's religions were selected and educated by them to send a specific message. This means that religion was directly influenced and structured by said aliens.

If I'm not mistaken, Dr. Lavey created Satanism in direct opposition of today's religions regardless of there original intent. The science aspect is similar but the philosophies don't mesh.

Im not saying you have to pick one, I'm not saying there isn't a contradiction in advocating both sides, but I will say that I'll stick to my guns and let the cards fall where they may.

However, if E.T. shows up on my doorstep next to a jehovah's witness, its gonna get ugly.

Introduce them to each other while you run away with the alien ray gun.

You would have to be quick about it, those Jehovah's witnesses can run quite fast.

They're totally kooky.

The story goes that Rael was taking a hike up on a mountaintop and was visited by aliens who told him the "true" meaning of the bible, that is, that aliens populated the planet and humanity's mandate is to do the same. When we do, we, in turn, will become like gods, just like the aliens. Because of this they strongly advocate cloning and scientific research into those areas.

As New Religious Movements go I find them interesting because of a few things;

You must be 18 years of age to join, even if both your parents are Raeliens.

They have very open ideas about sexuality; all consensual activity between adults is not only permitted, but strongly encouraged. I have even heard of a small subset of "Angels", who are women that have been personally trained by Rael to sexual satisfy the aliens when they return. Which brings me to my final note;

They have a tithing system in order to finance the building of a landing site for when the aliens return. Rael is the sole person who communicates with the aliens and then conveys their wishes to his followers.

I've met quite of few of them, as their main office is here in Quebec. Rael moved from France because treatment of NRMs in that country is not as liberal as here.

And as a side note; all the women that I met are incredibly sexy. The men, not so much.

Sounds like someone else from a popular myth, moses.



Ahh I see what he did there!

This is very interesting, I wouldn't subscribe to this religion but I like the idea behind it. I would of course want more proof, but it is worth considering.
Considering how abundant life is here on Earth then why wouldn't it be elsewhere in the universe? Considering there are many levels of intelligence on this planet, and that we are just now understanding DNA then why couldn't there be other beings in the universe that are more advanced?
Like I said though, I want more proof.
I have always told people that if Aliens were to land on the planet, that many religions would have egg all over their face and would be forced to change their position, but Satanists wouldn't.
Thanks for the link, it's interesting.

I think if one chooses to support any ideology aside from Satanism that's their own business, but it's pretty clear that Satanism is so defined it would be hard not to see many ideologies for what they really are, which are pretty pseudo-satanic!
I've only read a bit about the topic in question so if you find it interesting, why not? You already stated you think some of it is "a bit far fetched".

My opinion is just that if you approach this stuff keeping your carnal mind in check (and make sure it doesn't fly off with the spaceship) you could use a lot of it to your own advantage.

Because you then have to accept that Rael speaks to aliens, and give money to build the landing site.

Seriously, I see a grave contradiction.

I started reading a bit of the free download "Intelligent Design", while it is interesting, it is a monkey in a different suit, that is,- it is Christianity with different characters.

Satanism is against self-deception.

On what to they base their belief of alien origins?

Do they have any substantial warrant for the idea or do they just think its cool?

They smell distinctly of utter bullshit.

It is based solely on the word of Rael.

They are what religion scholars call a "ufologist" group. They demonstrate that humans have a natural tendency to deify whatever idea they find most attractive.

Good thing Satanists find themselves most attractive.

An interesting theory to speculate on, but hardly new. These people believe we were created by aliens through genetic engineering. There is a pseudo Satanic group out there who believes humans were genitically engineered by an ancient deity. Raelism just seems to be the "new and improved" version of the same story.

While I think it's possible that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, it doesn't seem logical to jump to the conclusion that they must have had a hand in creating us.

I don't know why some people have such a hard time with the idea that we are a product of evolution, and not the result of some "cosmic experiment".

Because they need to be controlled. They need an external to create them, they need an external to watch over them, they need an external to sell them real estate in the afterlife---blah, blah, blah.....

They want no shred of responsibility for their brief time on the planet.

Y~

Rael and the science ?! Ok RaeL.S.D and the science :

proposing his adept to be cloned, and once the clone will reach "the age of reason", Rael will make "a transfer of mind". Voila, this is the immortality process of Rael. Can we go back on earth now ?


Then, I really suggest to people to think twice : I do not tell you about how many cases of paedophilia have happened in their crazy cult "from space". Stop the madness now !

There is no thoughts to share more than this crazy shit is a cancer, FUCK RAEL. From France, I can tell that many things are alarming.

"I don't see why one can't believe in those stories and still practice the philosophies of Anton LaVey at the same time."

if you do, my advice would be that you go away, and far.

Indeed, Magistra. I seem to have forgotten that the phrase 'responsibility to the responsible' isn't going to be heard by those who refuse to listen to reason.

Remember a few days ago when we were discussing saying you know about something when you do not? I know absolutely nothing about this subject. However, I do remember discussing the issue of our origin. The idea that we were seeded came up. Now, I have no idea…I was not here way back whenever. But I could tell the other conversant felt it alleviated some of the problems of creationism. I disagreed, because you still have the problem of who seeded the seeders. Again, I was not here at our cusp. Shoot, I can barely remember where I was last week; never mind what my ultimate origination is. I do have this tag on my rear that reads, “Made in China”, though.

Bravo,

This rael is a waste of skin, it is people like this that should be burnt at the stake. I almost lost a cousin to those lunatics.

I onced read a remarkable tale about the accidental discovery of a lost city built millions and millions of years ago by a race of star-spanning, supremely intellegent vegatbles.

Seems they had a penchant for genetic experimentation and created a race of bi-pedal mammals for thier personal amusement.

Perhaps I'll start a "religion" around this. Look out Scientology here I come!

To quote Magus Peter H. Gilmore:



A Map for the Misdirected, paragraph 8

Good evening!



No.



Because they call themselve a religion of love, and they see Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed as positive although imperfect teachers. "The role of the prophets was to progressively educate humanity" they write.
By whom do you want to be educated, Jesus (Love your enemy!) or LaVey?
If you put away that alien stuff, that's the idea of the Baha'i or of Ramakrishna. Compare, what LaVey has written about these prophets in the Satanic Bible.

I think, the former alien Gods where just snake parasites inside men. They're called Goa'uld. No, not really. But at least, these characters, creating their own empires and dressing up in an impressive way, are more Satanic than those peacebringing Eloha :-)

Best wishes

Autophilius

Sounds to me like you're trading one god (Jehovah) for another (Rael).

Satanism and Raelism aren't compatible.

There is no room for believers in Satanism. And it doesn't matter if Raelians don't believe in the Christian god, they're still believers because they believe the word of some douchebag who calls himself Rael.

Why would you or anyone else want to? What benefits would you or anyone gain from a double association? How open would the Raelians be to this? (I imagine not at all.) The conflict I see. Whether it's aliens or deities, your still worshiping an external god and allowing an impersonal (very very likely non-existent) force to dictate the type of life to live. I don't find that to be very Satanic at all. In fact I find that to be counter to what Satanism is about, in essence and as it is very clearly stated in many parts of the literature.

You are asking if a faith-based religion is compatible with Satanism.

It is interesting how when you merely ask the question this way it really answers itself.

Satanism is not a faith-based religion.

It is based on doubt and the application of street smarts to the rational enjoyment of your life.

If you cannot test and verify on your own whether or not the claims of this religion are true then you are asking - no, you are begging to be taken advantage of.

Please remember that these people may all believe in everything they are claiming.

That does not mean that they are not delusional.

It certainly does not mean that they are correct.

Additionally, as Autophilius pointed out, the ethics of this religion seem to be totally incompatible with the pro-individual ethics of Satanism.

Did you notice that I have had nothing to say here about their claims that human beings were created by aliens?

I have nothing to say about their claim because they do not offer any way to prove or disprove it!

I am entirely in favor of being open-minded with regard to new information and facts.

I am entirely willing to explore issues that are commonly rejected by popular decree.

I am never willing to check my brain at the door when offered new ideas or facts to consider.

If there is no given way to validate a claim, then you ought not to simply believe it.

It is just that simple.

Agreed, their web site is in possession of a putrid and foul aroma; one glance should send one, nose-pinched, fleeing for their life.

What is with the preoccupation of "why?"

This, supposed, ultimate question is utterly useless. The fact is we are here. Period. Any surmising as to why or where we came from only pollutes the here and now.

Would it really be better to be of extra-terrestrial heritage rather than a great ape? Come to think of it wouldn't that lack of earthliness make one less Satanic?

Acutally, that's not as big of a motivating factor as it might seem from the outside. Most of the evolution deniers just have an inaccurate view in the first place of what evolution is and how it works, and reject it based on their own false assumptions. You can see this in the popular creationist catch phrases ("It's just a theory", "Then why do we still have monkeys?", "Science says everything was pure random chance", etc.) On top of this, most don't want to make the effort to learn, mainly because it would mean expanding vocabulary and reading something that's longer than a magazine article. Plus some just don't have the reasoning skills to imagine the difference between one thousand years and one billion years.

To go back to my initial response:


Well, it looks like they do after all! In fact, I should have realized that Statement #7 stands out immediately.

I agree completely with mass prognosis Rael-ism is a religion, it's hypocritical self-deceit. However, to complete the rest of the 3rd Satanic Statement, in the nature of undefiled wisdom.

I offer to you a source that may have spawned this madness. Zecharia Sitchin (1922) author of the Earth Chronicles. He proposed a planet call Nibiru is the same as the Sumerian Legend of Tiamat broken by (an asteroid) called Marduck etc. etc. etc.

The anti-researcher might be awed at his connections, but any real scientist should know better.

It does contain some beautiful ancient mythos from lost civilisation including Akkadia. A place I can find next to nothing about. If you like fairy tails.

If you had difficulty in finding information, it's because the real scholars call that particular city-state Akkad, not Akkadia:

Wikipedia (to start)

Books like George Roux's Ancient Iraq will give a more in-depth primer.

Hope this helps.

Thank you. It will, I'll check them out. Much appreciated.

You're welcome.

While this region doesn't get nearly as much scholarly interest as Egypt does (and let's face it - right now conditions are such that there isn't a whole lot of archeaological digging), there's still a wealth of fascinating information out there and enough books to take over your reading life. Have fun.

Vive l'Akkadie !

Uh-oh. I wonder if anyone other than Zaftig is going to laugh at that one.

I will be your beloved Evangeline Bellefontaine to your Gabriel Lajeunesse.

You have unwittingly unleashed the laughing demons over here.

I have a story to tell you about these two characters.

You are perhaps the only one here who will really appreciate how funny it is.

I will tell you in a PM.

Actually at the beginning, this man didn't even have a kind of theory. I remember him in my town ( where he started : vieux Nice, cours Saleya ), and he was selling his own books in the street (with 1 or 2 "adepts"), everyone was throwing him peanuts...

When a friend and I walked to that stand of fortune where books were, we asked : "what is that 'book of the truth'" ?, suddenly his 2 followers came to us with that good commercial smile, speaking about the "grande révélation"...

Next question : "oh yeah...And why is this other book bigger...Does it contain more truths in fact ?" : here the "grand guru", who was a shy and insecure man at the beginning started to feel embarrassed, but answered with a smile :"this one is for those already initiate....", then he left and went inside a bar, as the stand was near it.

Curious on purpose, we asked to these followers how everything started, why him and yada yada.. That is their "fabulous" answer, word by word :

"Rael, like every morning, was making his jogging...suddenly he saw a light and he felt that something was taking him.. He understood later that it was Aliens. That is how he had the revelation and the message he must spread to the world".

( Now you know it. Lesson number one : NEEEEVER make jogging with some aluminium wrapped around you ).........

Right after this, we hear noises from the bar. This was the boss kicking Rael out, saying something like "get lost clown from space!" ...And we saw that super guru gathering the books with the help of his 2 supermarket cashier looking women, and ran away.

Now, a serious thing that raises the hypothesis that Rael is another Jesus (no, I'm joking ) :

Her mother,very old country woman with her old Christianity and stuff, kind old grandma....When someone was asking her to joke :"so your son Rael has been into a spaceship and he was born by aliens ?"

The answer was always like this :" Who ?? Oooh yes, Claude ! You know, maybe it is possible ! Remember the virgin Mary and the angel ? Well, something similar has happened maybe...See : during Summer nights, I always leave the windows opened because of the heat !! "

Thank you Grandma.....No no, you drop that cigarette from space now, YOU...you drop it ...

( Lesson number 2 : if your grandma sleeps with the windows opened during Summer nights : she is a naughty woman searching to have sex with E.T )

if you look closer, his first book is not so different than this loopy Crowley and his "Book of the law".

Thank you all for your intelligent and informative insight.
I just wish some of you could have seemed a little less angry in your replies. I never intended it to be a highly serious debate. Just a thought. I don't believe in it myself, I was just curious and a bit interested at most. Never took them seriously though.
Let them believe what they want, but I will have no part in it.

And here I thought the look was very avante garde.

Dammit, Assabrah. Now I have to rethink my whole jogging ensemble.

I have friend ho was recently invited to a Raelian church meeting (or whatever their services are called)

He accepted because he was interested in meeting people who would buy his art. Apparently the Realians are famous for having money and he thought he could sell them some flying saucer paintings or something’s.

Among the things he noticed was the amount of people of other religions who assist to the Raelian cult. They have the same opinion, that Realianism doesn’t interfere with their system of believes, so they can be Raelians and at the same time still Catholic, Jewish or whatever.

The second thing he noticed was the great emphasis on the sex part of the Raelian philosophy. There was a lot of talk about shedding society’s inhibition and freely loving each other. Sex was the central theme and it all looked like the point of the meeting was just an excuse for the participants to engage in group sex later.

He noticed some of the Raelians were mature men who showed a great interest in the younger converts and he saw people being greeted with more-affectionate-than-usual gestures like kisses and butt grabs.

Since the males outnumbered the females my friend was not very interested in staying, so he can’t tell if the party ended in a big orgy or the members later split in smaller groups. But one participant called him later to tell him “he missed the fun”.

This is not my personal experience, but something that happened to a friend. But I think it kind of explains the attractive the Raelian cult has for people of other religions.

If what your friend recounted was true and you understood and imparted his account correctly then I would agree. That perhaps would explain the attraction, that and I found the information that you can be a member of a monotheistic religion and realism at the same time to be quite interesting. I didn't realize it was as common as the story makes it sound.

I must ad that the situation described could be exclusive of this particular Raelian church. I don't know if that reflects the Raelian religion in general of it's the contribution of this city's local flavor.