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#308010 - 02/19/08 08:41 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Scion]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
I forgot to reply-OOOOOHHHHH YEEEEAHHH, now I know!
Thanks for paging Elaiontoir, very helpful!

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#308031 - 02/19/08 10:03 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
You are quite welcome, Warlock.
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** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#308051 - 02/19/08 11:07 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: AurEum]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11535
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: ealaiontoir
Do you have a picture ? The reason I ask is because there are two different types of enamel. There is the original ground glass particles that are fused to the metal (as in champleve, cloisonne, or baisse taille enameling). There are also low-fire enamels, that are still glass. Additionally, a lot of people refer to tinted epoxy-resin as enamel.

I think it might be the first kind. It's very shiny and smooth, and the surface rolls inward as you pull away from the surrounding metal. You can see on the bottom where some of it has chipped off. It's become really brittle now.


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#308053 - 02/19/08 11:12 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
One question, are the Baphomets silver metal, or actual silver?

If they are actual silver then you may want to try something different, that doesn't require polishing or a jeweler.

Take a coke can and cut of the top half. Abrade the inside with steal wool. Place the coke can in a pan filled to about half the height of the remainder of the coke can, and fill the coke can to the same height. Now place about 1-2 teaspoons of baking soda in the coke can along with the Baphomet. Apply gentle heat on the stove (a setting at about 1 will do), and watch. Mind you this will only work with actual silver!!!!!


Edited by Jack_Lantern (02/19/08 11:17 AM)
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#308060 - 02/19/08 11:35 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Bill_M]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
Unfortunately it is still difficult for me to tell by looking at the picture what type of enamel it is. You may be able to tell, epoxy-resin has the slightest bit of "give" to it when pushed against, where as glass enamel does not. Both traditional enamel (cloisonne) and tinted epoxy-resin would build up near the raised portion of the metal. Ideally any type of "enamel" would be built up to at least the surface level of the metal, possibly even a bit higher and would be "stoned" down so that the enamel and the metal are completely flush. This would prevent cracking and flaking, assuming of course that the piece is well cared for and is not dropped.

The light green color in the picture under where the black has come off leads me to think that this is in fact actual glass enamel, the light green color would be caused by the interaction between the silver and the transparent enamel that is first laid down on most traditional enameled pieces. If it is in fact glass enamel, and you are able to find out what temperature the enamel was fired at and if it is lead-bearing or lead-free, you can request that it be repaired with glass enamel. I would suggest you use a jeweler who is also an enamelist, the average repair jeweler will not know how to do this type of repair (and could potentially destroy the piece). It could also be repaired with tinted epoxy-resin, which would be seamless to the naked eye. There would be slight variance in the way that it responds to pressure (see above), but visually it will not be detected.


Edited by ealaiontoir (02/19/08 11:39 AM)
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** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#308267 - 02/20/08 12:50 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: AurEum]
Doctor_Beat Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/06/06
Posts: 282

Strange as it may sound, a good way to distinguish glass from resin would be to gently tap it against one of your teeth.
Resin will feel 'plasticy', as if your tooth could scratch it, but glass will feel very hard.
It's hard to describe, but you'll understand if you try it.

I have used this technique to tell if the crystal on old watches is glass or acrylic.
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#308269 - 02/20/08 12:58 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Doctor_Beat]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
It probably wouldn't work with my teeth-I have dentures.

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#308299 - 02/20/08 04:15 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Doctor_Beat]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
That's a good idea, and I know a lot of people who do it. It's also the "industry standard" way for determining if pearls are simulated or real.

Personally, it's not something that I do. Epoxy-resin & enamels are both very toxic (as is the nacre on pearls). Granted, so little would probably scrape off that it wouldn't be a big deal, but I'd rather be over cautious. There are other ways of determining what something is, but unfortunately that requires a degree of training and a discerning eye.
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** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#308351 - 02/20/08 11:08 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: AurEum]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11535
Loc: New England, USA
I tried my best with the photo, but I know the photo still doesn't reveal as much. I'll look around for an enamelist. Thanks a lot for your help!
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Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#308355 - 02/20/08 11:40 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: Bill_M]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
Anytime! \:\)
_________________________
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#308673 - 02/22/08 11:28 AM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: DickSteele]
fatebender Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 537
Loc: Sin City
The problem with silver is that no matter what you coat it with, it will still tarnish. Oxidation, once it begins, is an internal process which will "bubble" to the surface. Exposure to sulphur aggrivates it.

Continued polishing of the amulets could wear away the detail over time, but using a dip doesn't do as much damage. Tarn X works, and is readily available. You'll still need to polish them sometimes.

There is a new sterling which never tarnishes called "Argentium Sterling" which is an amalgam with germanium (instead of nickel.) I suggest it for any new silver projects. The extra cost is negligible.
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#308726 - 02/22/08 03:36 PM Re: Jewelry Restoration? [Re: fatebender]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
If you believe that oxidation is an internal process I suggest that you test your belief. Take a piece of oxidized silver and cut it open. Examine the exposed area and the inside area that has not previously been exposed to the atmosphere.

***

Silver will not tarnish if it is coated. Tarnish is caused by oxidation, the process of the metal interacting with the oxygen in the atmosphere. If there is a protective barrier, oxidation will not occur. Protective barriers will need to be reapplied because they will wear off over time.

Of course excessive polishing will wear down the metal. Polishing is an abrasive process.

You are correct that Argentium Silver does not contain nickel, but neither does traditional Sterling Silver. Traditional Sterling Silver is an alloy of 92.5% Fine Silver and 7.5% Copper (which is why Sterling Silver is stamped .925). Argentium Silver is a type of Sterling Silver (it holds the same fine silver to non-precious metal ratio), but it is alloyed with Germanium instead of Copper.

I have worked with numerous alloys, including Argentium Silver. The cost is not what concerns me, several of its working properties are undesirable. It is better suited to some applications, but certainly not others. I would be careful about making a blanket recommendation concerning this (or any other) alloy.
_________________________
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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