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#308447 - 02/21/08 03:46 PM On how Christians view heaven and hell
Desertman Offline


Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 6
Loc: LAS VEGAS, NV.

Christian religions come up with the most dark and macabre descriptions for what Hell is supposed to be like. They can give a very detailed description of what it looks like. Their paintings of hell show alot of grizzly situations. I just notice that most of the paintings of heaven that I have seen of Christians is just white clouds, angels w/ harps and bright lights. I find it funny that they can get so creative about hell but yet there is really no creative elements to their portrayal of heaven.

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#308451 - 02/21/08 03:55 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Wouldn't it be cool if Hell was real! "Going down, party time, all my friends are gonna be there too...." Well we all know the rest.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#308460 - 02/21/08 04:18 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Philotechnic Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 745
Loc: NC, US
I prefer how Paul Gustave Doré depicts Hell personally.

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#308461 - 02/21/08 04:23 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Lust]
phoenixrisen Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 176
Loc: Manchester, England
Yep. I guess this shows where general Christian fascination truly lies.

It seems like Heaven would be a pretty boring place. I have even come across FAQ websites devoted to (attempting to) convince people that doing nothing but worshipping God for eternity will be so much fun, honest

Besides, Hell would have all the best people ;\)
_________________________
La vie veut vivre.

She's not little, no minion like me--
That's why she ensnared him.

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#308481 - 02/21/08 05:37 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
andy3004 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 90
Loc: Germany
 Originally Posted By: Desertman

I find it funny that they can get so creative about hell but yet there is really no creative elements to their portrayal of heaven.


Well, methinks this is only obvious.

Like Jean-Paul Sartre once said: "l'enfer, c'est les autres" or in English: "Hell is other people".

Each and everyone of us experiences the one or other (or in some cases: lots of) irk about many of the people we meet in daily life. They just don't seem to fit, they act stupidly, they are just bothersome.

So yes, 'Hell' actually is 'other people', and since we are all humans, this particular feeling should be more or less the same for any of us. And thus, it is easy to create some visual image of all the things we dislike or despise (giving some creativity); which imho explains all those depictions of hell you see in traditional art.

Picturing "Paradise" is obviously much more difficult. Especially in Christian mythology it is supposed to be the ultimate wonderland. And as such, it is a thing that is is not easily to put into vision. Especially since people are all different. One persons wonderland may look pretty boring (or even abhorring) to the one standing next to him. So, in the end, the artist trying to depict some 'heavenly scenery' can only use a very selected types of depiction, should he wish that it still fits the 'general' taste.

Maa... just my thoughts about this particular subject late at night... ^^



ja ne,

-andy

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#308493 - 02/21/08 06:30 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
zodiac Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 189
Loc: Virginia
Christians often use fear to motivate their followers hence the grizzly depictions. Maybe they could use some of that imagination for something actually constructive. In fact the holy shit bible does not even give a detailed description. These pictures are nothing but pure imagination.
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#308501 - 02/21/08 06:50 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Lust]
TrojZyr Offline
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Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Sometimes, I like to think of Hell as a locked theatre, where Jerry Falwell is being forced to watch Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Joseph and the Technicolour Dreamcoat" for all eternity. ;\)

"Godspell" is waiting for Pat Robertson.
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#308512 - 02/21/08 07:41 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
CatlikeJoe Offline


Registered: 06/26/07
Posts: 191
Loc: Dominican Republic
I like the way South Park depicts heaven.

"Sorry, the correct answer was Mormon"

Kenny dies... and goes on to the afterlife.

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#308516 - 02/21/08 08:00 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: andy3004]
AurEum Offline
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Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
My painting of "heaven" would depict a plethora of carnal indulgences. Something tells me most Christians won't go for that. "One person's heaven is another person's hell" ... but I bet our paintings would be far more interesting. ;\)
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#308518 - 02/21/08 08:01 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: AurEum]
TheDegenerate Offline
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Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
The Christian heaven would be a boring shithole, full of morons. It would truly be MY definition of "hell."

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#308521 - 02/21/08 08:11 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2194
This is where "The Law Of The Forbidden" takes place.

Human beings are all attracted to things that are not supposed to be. No matter how grotesque. From the Christian perspective, heaven is supposed to be a "good" place to be. To them, there's nothing bizarre or strange about heaven and it leaves little room for creativity.
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#308522 - 02/21/08 08:12 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: CatlikeJoe]
Desertman Offline


Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 6
Loc: LAS VEGAS, NV.

I"ve seen the South Park episodes.

My favorite vision of hell is portrayed in the Hellraiser movies.

In any event, At least their portayals of hell are very entertaning to view. That is the only thing I can say about Christianity.

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#308524 - 02/21/08 08:14 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: CatlikeJoe]
RaSc Offline
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Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 484
Loc: PA
Another humorous depiction can be found in the book, Only Begotten Daughter by James Morrow.

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#308528 - 02/21/08 08:31 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2194
I'm a fan of paintings depicting Hell myself.

Check out The History Of Hell by Alice K. Turner and Devils by Gilles Neret. Both books are highly entertaining.
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#308529 - 02/21/08 08:37 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: andy3004]
Chess Offline
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Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 1473
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
 Quote:
Like Jean-Paul Sartre once said: "l'enfer, c'est les autres" or in English: "Hell is other people".


Well, of course he'd say that. Everyone he knew was French.

(rimshot)

-Chess

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#308532 - 02/21/08 08:37 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: phoenixrisen]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Heaven, is like soft porn, and white feathers. Hell, is triple XXX, with whips and chains! Third tier, second row.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#308537 - 02/21/08 08:43 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Lust]
AurEum Offline
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Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
That might be the best analogy ever!
_________________________
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

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#308593 - 02/22/08 01:46 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Bill_M Offline
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Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11535
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: Desertman
Christian religions come up with the most dark and macabre descriptions for what Hell is supposed to be like.

It actually changes a lot from century to century and sect to sect. For example, the descriptions from the Jehovah's Witnesses, Southern Baptists, modern liberal Catholics, and medieval Catholics are all completely different.

 Originally Posted By: Desertman
I find it funny that they can get so creative about hell but yet there is really no creative elements to their portrayal of heaven.

Don't be so sure. ;\)
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#308617 - 02/22/08 04:51 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Ghorth6 Offline


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 46
Loc: War-Celona, sPAIN
To me, heaven should be like living in the Playboy Mansion (surrounded by bunnies) and hell should be like living in the Vatican or something (surrounded by old clerics).

H.S.
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All I Hail, Hail me back!

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#308618 - 02/22/08 04:53 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Auen74 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 103
Loc: Pennsylvania
It seems funny how they have all the horrific paintings of hell, yet none of them are actually based on what their bible says. In fact, the bible gives a pretty detailed description of what heaven will be like, yet hell is only described as a lake of fire that will burn for all eternity.

I'm pretty amused by the description of the minions of Abaddon. Miniature horses with the tails of scorpions, body armor, and the head of a human. Someone must have been on some serious drugs to come up with that one.

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#308623 - 02/22/08 07:26 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Auen74]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
 Originally Posted By: Auen74
It seems funny how they have all the horrific paintings of hell, yet none of them are actually based on what their bible says. In fact, the bible gives a pretty detailed description of what heaven will be like, yet hell is only described as a lake of fire that will burn for all eternity.

I'm pretty amused by the description of the minions of Abaddon. Miniature horses with the tails of scorpions, body armor, and the head of a human. Someone must have been on some serious drugs to come up with that one.


There are over 260 versions of the bible. Drugs don't always increase creativity. Creativity is mainly brought on by a sensation of euphoria. Which can be achieved by other means than drugs.

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#308796 - 02/22/08 09:01 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Enigma777 Offline


Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 291
I say NO ONE is bad enough to deserve eternal damnation
AND NO ONE is good enough to deserve eternal luxury

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#308872 - 02/23/08 10:20 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Enigma777]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3968
Loc: The Deep South
 Originally Posted By: Abhik
... AND NO ONE is good enough to deserve eternal luxury


Well, speak for yourself.
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You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
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#308891 - 02/23/08 11:52 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Enigma777]
Auge Offline


Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Germany
Yes, there are a lot of interesting theological inconsistencies. Good that we don't have to deal with that, isn't it?
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- Friedrich Nietzsche

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#308892 - 02/23/08 12:08 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
The problem isn't the descriptions.

Or the depictions.

Or the threat vs. promises.

The problem is that it reinforces the sheep like need to waste life by applying importance to death.

With the exception of allowing living talent an outlet for creativity, spending a minute of LIFE contemplating DEATH is a waste.

Y~
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#308893 - 02/23/08 12:11 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Ghorth6]
Never Offline


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 187
Loc: Skien, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Ghorth666
To me, heaven should be like living in the Playboy Mansion (surrounded by bunnies) and hell should be like living in the Vatican or something (surrounded by old clerics).



For me, it`s the other way around ;p


I think (and I have no info on this, just from the top of my head, I may have all the "facts" wrong) that Heaven was ment to be up to ones own imagination, so that it would sound as good as possible for everyone so that people would have an easier time believing in it, thus giving the leaders more power.
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#308902 - 02/23/08 12:48 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Ygraine]
Auge Offline


Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Germany
I think every human being thinks 'beyond himself'. Not that we have the natural idea of an actual physical afterlife, but I think we cann't help 'thinking towards infinity'. So it's no wonder that certain people have come to think of an afterlife and that so many people can relate to that idea. It reflects human thinking in a bad way.

On the other hand, the states of perfect bliss or torment are impossible to describe. Because we don't really know what perfect eternal happiness would be like, that's what we're trying to find out every day of our lives, step by step.

So neither is there any prove of the existence/nonexistence of an afterlife, nor can any description or depiction be 100% compelling. But still the history of the idea of afterlifes is a 'testament' of the human nature, so in this special case, contemplating death is contemplating life.
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Alle Wesen bisher schufen etwas über sich hinaus: und ihr wollt die Ebbe dieser großen Flut sein und lieber noch zum Tiere zurückgehn, als den Menschen überwinden?
- Friedrich Nietzsche

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#308905 - 02/23/08 12:59 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Auge]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
So neither is there any prove of the existence/nonexistence of an afterlife, nor can any description or depiction be 100% compelling. But still the history of the idea of afterlifes is a 'testament' of the human nature, so in this special case, contemplating death is contemplating life.


I agree that it is human nature to be curious about what comes next---we are just egotistical enough to not be able to conceive of a world without ourselves.

My complaint is playing into the whole punishment vs. reward system that demands a higher power with a karmic scorecard. The minute one does that they cease living for themselves.


Y~
_________________________
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http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#308910 - 02/23/08 01:16 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Ygraine]
Auge Offline


Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Germany
Contemplating how heaven and hell might look like exactly, what deity I have to bribe with prayer to get into the former and what parts of my carnal nature I have to mutilate to be spared the latter is a dead end indeed, pun intended. There will never be an answer.
_________________________
Alle Wesen bisher schufen etwas über sich hinaus: und ihr wollt die Ebbe dieser großen Flut sein und lieber noch zum Tiere zurückgehn, als den Menschen überwinden?
- Friedrich Nietzsche

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#308912 - 02/23/08 01:21 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Auge]
TheDegenerate Offline
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Posts: 3567
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#308913 - 02/23/08 01:26 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: TheDegenerate]
Never Offline


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 187
Loc: Skien, Norway
Dude - that`s heavy!

"There is no emotion" "There is no passion"
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Where I lay my head is home

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#308914 - 02/23/08 01:26 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: TheDegenerate]
Danny Mc. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2143
Loc: Taxationland
HaHa! One for the archives! Thanks. \:D
_________________________
"To be born into this world a sentient, self-conscious and reasoning being, surrounded by inexhaustible glories in Nature, which we may comprehend, possess,enjoy; to be able to rise on the wings of a lofty imagination; to be able to get glimpses of the ideally perfect; to apprehend the Divine; it is to the development and enjoyment of these high powers that the young man is invited. How dare he refuse to qualify himself by the most perfect training of all his powers." Lyman J. Gage 1910


"Follow Me!", John M. (Delta).

"I've learned that you shouldn't compare yourself to others - they are more screwed up than you think." Something Magistra Isabel posted. laugh

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#308923 - 02/23/08 02:18 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Citizen Jonesy Offline
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Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 994
Loc: Palm Springs, California, USA
One word:

Control
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#308929 - 02/23/08 02:42 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: TheDegenerate]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566



I personally lean towards the Sith if I had to choose a fictional religion. I find their teachings to be carnal and thus more in tune with my natural way of thinking and actions. The only thing the average Sith lacks is cunning and control. They use of emotion as a drive to achieve power is a concept I can agree with and make use of. Yet their philosophy would lead one to be consumed by the power rather than to control it. It's mostly brawn and no brains. Perhaps why the most cunning and strong of them make it to the top. Considering we have no force as it exists in Star Wars we can't make use of this philosophy in that context. In reality it is only mentally that we can use their philosophy. Semantically I see it very close to Satanism, but again it's a matter of perception and how you would apply it.

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion
through passion; I gain strength
through strength; I gain power
through power; I gain victory
through victory; my chains are broken
and the force shall set me free!" - Sith Mantra(or something of that nature)

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#308931 - 02/23/08 02:45 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: FalloutGod]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
I would personally choose to be a Jawa.

They kick ass.

"Through shooting droids in the face, we are awesome.
Through driving around in a massive armored vehicle through the desert, we kick ass.
Through wearing cute little hoods through which the only thing you can see are our glowing eyes, we are mysterious.
WE ARE JAWA. OOTINI!!!!!"


Edited by Phosis (02/23/08 02:52 PM)

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#308979 - 02/23/08 06:01 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: TheDegenerate]
Never Offline


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 187
Loc: Skien, Norway
Gungas are way awesomer. (and there - I invented a new word :D)
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Where I lay my head is home

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#308983 - 02/23/08 06:07 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
I'mPerfecting Offline


Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida
It's what happens to people who stare to long at the void. They fill it with impression of there life. Most are more comfortable with what they know.

I was once told " Heaven and Hell are here! Right in front of you! Open your eyes. The world is what you make of it, learn from the mistakes of others. Life is to short to make them all again yourself."

I'm sure this quote is an amalgamation of many wise men, but my friend who said it made it stick. So to credit them all in short I'll just say it's philosophicly inspired.

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#309062 - 02/24/08 04:01 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
TheNaturalForce Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 511
Loc: The Vibrant Garden
As a child attempting to choke down the idea of afterlife and Christian dogma I naturally had many questions. Most of those questions were met with a wall of disdain.

I once asked, after a long winded instruction by a dazzle-eyed devout Christian (It was that far away empty stare that chills the bones.) what exactly heaven was like and what it would be like to live there.

I was told that the streets were made of gold bricks, that it was eternally green, that children played with peaceful lions, that all my dead loved ones would be there, that there were angels in white robes the floated around with instruments, and that we could all sit in the grass and listen to Jesus talk his sermons.

Needless to say I found it very difficult to believe.
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#309346 - 02/25/08 02:21 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Chess]
verkennix Offline


Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 7
Loc: va
Real HELL, by most Christian religions isn't the way it's portrayed by most peeps, Real HELL isn't a lake of un-consuming fire or a plane of un-ending torment. The real pain and suffering, according to Chirtians, is the sepperation of the immortal soul from the love and light of God.
Of course this is the same God that set up all the rules for us as humans to fail. HE knew damn well that we couldn't live up to HIS standards and rules, and so we are all Damned. Then he, supposedly, sets up all these complicated rules and laws that were supposed to follow. If we do we go to heaven, if not we go to Hell, for ETERNITY. Yeah, a just and loving God that guy is....
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#309387 - 02/25/08 07:33 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: verkennix]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
You believe in god? You believe in a being of higher power that has predetermined your life?


Edited by FalloutGod (02/25/08 07:35 AM)
Edit Reason: clarification

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#309453 - 02/25/08 10:32 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: verkennix]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
 Originally Posted By: verkennix
Real HELL, by most Christian religions isn't the way it's portrayed by most peeps, Real HELL isn't a lake of un-consuming fire or a plane of un-ending torment. The real pain and suffering, according to Chirtians, is the sepperation of the immortal soul from the love and light of God.
Of course this is the same God that set up all the rules for us as humans to fail. HE knew damn well that we couldn't live up to HIS standards and rules, and so we are all Damned. Then he, supposedly, sets up all these complicated rules and laws that were supposed to follow. If we do we go to heaven, if not we go to Hell, for ETERNITY. Yeah, a just and loving God that guy is....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KmWbKJ8CyY


Edited by Phosis (02/25/08 10:34 AM)

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#309458 - 02/25/08 10:45 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: TheDegenerate]
L0ki Offline



Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 991
Loc: Scandinavia
Spot on, Phosis. Spot on...
_________________________
In this crazy world I'm certain of only 3 things:

1. The short memory of the human race.

2. History repeats itself.

3. The short memory of the human race.

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#309729 - 02/26/08 09:47 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
Adveser Offline


Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 429
Loc: California
I think Ronnie James Dio said it best: it can be summarized like this:

Heaven and Hell exist on earth, you choose which one you live in.

We are all Angels and Demons on earth, you choose which you want to be. (the song fallen angels give a better description than that)

Furthermore, this isn't from Dio, but it fits nice with the above two.

Good and Evil are the decisions of men, not absolute concepts.

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#309746 - 02/26/08 11:03 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Adveser]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
I like what I took out of the nihilistic philosophy when I looked into it. That good and evil are concepts of preconception. I don't limit my self to seeing things in a black and white manner.

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#310161 - 02/27/08 06:53 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: FalloutGod]
Adveser Offline


Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 429
Loc: California
Well of course things aren't always black and white. Everything can pretty much be summed up in the relation of positive, negative or neutral feelings. Complexe issues have complex answers, but essentially when you view any one part of specific things they are sure to draw one of those emotions from you. I doubt that all of that stems from preconceived ideas about good and evil.

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#310167 - 02/27/08 07:13 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Adveser]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
Yes and at times it is hard to push aside emotion and deal with things properly. Sometimes emotions can grow so strong they blind you from what you really want,the end result of your actions.

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#310263 - 02/28/08 05:58 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: FalloutGod]
Charlie D Offline


Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 15
Lots of people have crazy interpretations of heaven and hell.

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#310276 - 02/28/08 08:22 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Auge]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: Auge
I think every human being thinks 'beyond himself'. Not that we have the natural idea of an actual physical afterlife, but I think we cann't help 'thinking towards infinity'. So it's no wonder that certain people have come to think of an afterlife and that so many people can relate to that idea. It reflects human thinking in a bad way.




Auge…I would like to propose that no one thinks beyond himself or herself. See…I do not believe that I am going to die. I know that I am; but I do not believe I am.

I think ideas such as Heaven and Hell is the extension of what we know into what we do not know. We cannot think of ourselves any other way. Even those of us who do not think there is “anything after death” (that is a telling phrase) there seem to be the seed of implication that there is someone to not be there.

I agree that it is natural to feel that there is some type of extension of ourselves after we die. I also agree that descriptions of the afterlife are an example of that. I would not say that it reflects “bad thinking”. It is the same phenomenon that allows us to “suspend our disbelief”. In order to suspend disbelief, we have to believe something, for a given period of time. What makes us different is that we realize that we are dealing with our projection in an objective way. Everyone objectifies his or her projections. That is what people who believe in Heaven and Hell are doing. I would not call that “bad thinking”. I would say that they are thinking as all humans think, without the benefit of thinking about their thinking. They are unaware of how their use of language is shaping their worldview. Most people are. In fact, I am virtually certain that there are many areas where I still do that. The reason I know that is that I catch myself doing it every day. So, to me, it is no wonder that most people, naturally unable to imagine a future without them, mistaking their fantasies for the real thing. I doubt most people are capable of doing otherwise.

In response to the original post…I think that you may underestimate just how sick and twisted Christianity is. I once did a study of the origins of the horror genre. The horror genre, as we know it, got its start with the Spanish Inquisition. Christianity takes the phenomenon that I described in the previous paragraphs, and uses it as a club to bully people into acting as if they believe what the bully claims to believe…and does not. True believers are the most dangerous, vile, disgusting creatures to ever walk the face of the Earth. They would have no problem killing every person who dares to question their house of cards. Why? Because they feel that is the only way they can keep fooling themselves. Since they are unable to do so, they project a God who will. Don’t be fooled by the apparent civility of Christians.

For a religion that preaches brotherly love and selflessness, we cannot hold a candle to their self-centeredness. The heart of the Christian religion is the belief in evil.
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#311821 - 03/04/08 05:34 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Auge Offline


Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Germany
We want the good (relative to our own ethics) recieve praise and the bad recieve punishment. Combined with "people, naturally unable to imagine a future without them" (that's the point!), we have the reasonable ideals of heaven and hell. I have no problem with that.

But Heaven and hell as actual places with real life rules guiding who gets where and when is no longer an ideal, it's a legal issue.
And all legal texts subsequently spawn filthy attorneys who rape them. That's the way of the world.

Physical heaven and hell are bad ideas. Creating them was bad, allthough utterly human, thinking. Accepting them uncritically is bad, allthough utterly human, judgement.

Maybe I missed a point, but I think we're in agreement here, aren't we?
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#313163 - 03/09/08 08:28 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
RavenEye666 Offline


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 29
Loc: Derbyshire, United Kingdom
I feel often times those of the Right Hand path get so caught up in their spiritual delusions that they fail to see they are already dwelling in their definition of "Hell" due to the fact that they deny themselves these rewarding carnal pleasures. Heaven for them is what they are "supposed to" strive for, but I bet if any of them were actually able to step away from their delusion long enough to give an actual well-thought out answer, instead of the robotic dribble they constatnly proliferate, they'd all be pretty raring and ready to hop on that bus to Hell.

Trouble is, those of the Right Hand path have a deep seated phobia towards honesty, and would much rather abide in their self-denial and misery. At one time I felt sorry for these individuals, until I found they did it out of sheer preference. Now I merely roll my eyes whenever one of these types starts in on me about Heaven. The place does sound awfully boring.

After all, who wouldn't rather go to a kick ass party with awsome people and the best music for all eternity?

I'll take the party thank you very much!
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#313171 - 03/09/08 09:31 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
DevilsFoodCake Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 440
Loc: Redwood Coast
Unintelligent people came up with, and believe in, the notion of heaven and hell. I have no interest in further discussing dim-witted people or their conceptualized version of reality.
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Minds are like parachutes, they work best when open.

With very few absolute truths in the world know this; wherever you go, there you are.

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It is within you when you are born.

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#313192 - 03/09/08 10:50 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: DevilsFoodCake]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
According to My upbringing in the Church, Hell is a lake of fire SO HOT that you cannot see the flames burning.

It is a bottomless pit that is pitch black where you are constantly falling. (Eve snickers when she recalls Bill And Ted's Bogus Journey where they go to Hell and are falling in the darkness playing twenty questions) Thirst is never quenched and the worms never die.

Many Xtians believe that the reason Hell was made to be so terrible
in the first place is because God understood that he created man in his own image therefore making us 'mini-gods' and that if Hell were not painful enough.........We would eventually find a way to get ourselves out (escape).

God is too lazy for two Armageddons I suppose.

Either way, I don't feel that either exist and more importantly I don't care if they exist or not.
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Revered.
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#314366 - 03/13/08 11:50 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: zodiac]
DFJ Offline


Registered: 03/13/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: zodiac
Christians often use fear to motivate their followers hence the grizzly depictions. Maybe they could use some of that imagination for something actually constructive. In fact the holy shit bible does not even give a detailed description. These pictures are nothing but pure imagination.


As is the rest of the bible in my opinion, not just the pictures!
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#316291 - 03/20/08 03:54 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: phoenixrisen]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
 Originally Posted By: phoenixrisen
I have even come across FAQ websites devoted to (attempting to) convince people that doing nothing but worshipping God for eternity will be so much fun, honest


This made me laugh. Poor things wasting away their lives in hopes of wasting away an eternity after.

 Originally Posted By: Ygraine
The problem is that it reinforces the sheep like need to waste life by applying importance to death.

With the exception of allowing living talent an outlet for creativity, spending a minute of LIFE contemplating DEATH is a waste.


Agreed in a sense but it's important to add that the fear of death is a real instinctual emotion worth contemplation of the kind to learn to understand the nature of that fear and accept it as it is in order to be free of it and not have it dictate how you live your life.

Also the masses who draw their philosophy from this fear of death come up with colorful delusions giving rational fellow members of their spices something to occasionally laugh about, although they are boring most of the time. And even though they may cause trouble in society they are easy to over maneuver and make a mass of ignorant people among which success comes easy to those deserving.


Edited by Zardex (03/20/08 09:07 PM)
Edit Reason: Also...
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#316309 - 03/20/08 04:38 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I've often thought the same of The Divine Comedy. I tried reading it and found The Inferno to be quite creative and enjoyable. I only made it about half way through Purgatorio before getting bored and putting it down. I looked ahead to heaven, which has 7 layers. Each layer was the same. The only thing differentiating one from the next was its proximity to God, so I didn't bother reading it. I think the reason why Christians can't be creative about heaven is because they feel so guilty about any sorts of pleasures. Imagining a paradise without pleasures does kind of limit the imagination.

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#316312 - 03/20/08 04:45 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Adveser]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
 Originally Posted By: Adveser
Good and Evil are the decisions of men, not absolute concepts.


This is an old idea predating Christianity like many good ideas do.
The first person who dared to openly, defiantly and publicly present this idea in his philosophy since after Christianity took hold was Baruch Spinoza in 17th century medieval time.
"Sin cannot be conceived in a natural state, but only in a civil state, where it is decreed by common consent what is good or bad."
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"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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