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#308649 - 02/22/08 09:41 AM Debate on Evolution
LordofDarkness Offline
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Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
I was having a debate about evolution vs creationism on how we came to be. My girlfriend was saying we couldn't have evolved from apes or monkeys because if we had been, then why aren't all monkeys and apes evolved like us? I told her that it was because we are fortunate while they were basically left behind. She added that nature doesn't "choose" who is fortunate and who isn't. She mentioned of her believing in evolution but to a certain extent; that we have come to earth from another planet by alien life forms and abandoned here because of our inability to progess intellectually as fast as them. She also included that "God" is more than likely an alien who is so much highly evolved that us humans in general cannot understand his physical and mental potential and therefore making religionists believe he is all powerful. To support her theory, she added that god's world is not of this one and that it should be on another planet. When I had asked her about the visual similarities we have with apes, she responded that we look similar because we had to adapt to nature in order to survive. The whole time during this debate, I had argued about the theory of man evolving from apes and that all life started here. However she argues that life could not possibly start here without some cause that was not accidental or a "just happened" event and we were set here purposely. I would like your opinions and see what other people's views are on this theory. Thank you for your time.
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#308650 - 02/22/08 09:46 AM Re: Who or What "God" is. [Re: LordofDarkness]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
I support evolution as it has a lot of research and study behind it. Versus what your girlfriend believes. Which is in turn largely speculation and theory without any concrete facts or tangible evidance.

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#308656 - 02/22/08 10:18 AM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: LordofDarkness]
foreverlearning Offline


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 104
It has been proven in labs that give the correct circumstances life can "just happen".

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#308670 - 02/22/08 11:18 AM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: LordofDarkness]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Sorry, amigo, but your girlfriend is a few bonobos short of an orgy on this one.

First, we did not evolve from the Great Apes we see today. Orangutans, bonobos, chimps, and gorillas are our cousins.

Second, evolution often (though not always) takes millions of years. If the chimps are on their way to being like us, we may not get to see that for a while.

Third, the Great Apes have evolved. They are, for the time being, perfectly suited to their environment. They don't have to be like us to survive.

Fourth, if all of the Great Apes had immediately become like us, this would have resulted in incredible and vicious competition back in the day. By having different traits and skills, each animal can occupy its own niche in nature, without having to wrestle with other animals who have the exact same traits and needs.

Fifth, we not only look like the other Great Apes, we are extremely similar to them genetically, too. We share about 98-99% of our DNA with chimpanzees.

And while there may be some evidence to suggest that some adaptations seem to appear in response to a need or a demand for them, for the most part, it's up to chance and fortune.

Some of life's building blocks may come from or exist in space, but there's no real evidence to suggest a grand scheme involving aliens.
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#308730 - 02/22/08 03:42 PM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: TrojZyr]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
 Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
Sorry, amigo, but your girlfriend is a few bonobos short of an orgy on this one.


I know I say this regularly but I have to work that phrase into a sentence soon!
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#308733 - 02/22/08 03:53 PM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: LordofDarkness]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
I agree with what TrojZyr said
 Quote:
Sorry, amigo, but your girlfriend is a few bonobos short of an orgy on this one.


She doesn't think that life can "just happen" or believe in evolution, but she thinks that humans have adapted from the original aliens that supposedly brought us here. Last time I checked, adaptation is a keyword that evolutionists (i.e. Darwin) coined. So basically she's saying that humans could not have evolved from apes, yet evolving from aliens is plausible?

I am a bit confused as to how her thought process works, unless she's regurgitating someone else's ideas (that would actually make sense).
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#308765 - 02/22/08 05:58 PM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: AurEum]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
Indeed her thought process on the topic seems to be quite a mish mash of contrasting concepts. As ealainotoir says, if evolution from monkeys et al is out and we're from aliens, quite where did the aliens originate from? The only possible end point you could have to such a theory is that it all regresses back to one initial species and that that species either was God or was created directly by God as a seed for all life and has gone around populating other planets ever since.

You're telling me that's more plausible than evolution?
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#308785 - 02/22/08 08:04 PM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: LordofDarkness]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11460
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: LordOfDarkness
I was having a debate about evolution vs creationism on how we came to be.


Evolution only deals with how organisms change, not where life originated from. If you want to read up on the branch of science that studies the latter, then look up abiogenesis. I know creationists like to use "evolution" to refer to everything from the Big Bang to planet formation to microbiology, but this is wrong.

Furthermore, this isn't a question you can resolve by a verbal debate. The evidence behind evolution is overwhelming. And as I said on another thread, the people who deny evolution are invariably people who haven't done even a minimumal amount of research on the subject. Which brings me to this...

 Originally Posted By: LordOfDarkness
My girlfriend was saying we couldn't have evolved from apes or monkeys because if we had been, then why aren't all monkeys and apes evolved like us?

Your girlfriend is an uneducated twit. That's not the way evolution works. It doesn't propose that humans evolved from "monkeys or apes" (does she even know the difference between these two terms?), but rather that primates have a common ancestor. More generally, any two organisms share a common ancestor, some are just higher up the taxonomy branch than others.

 Originally Posted By: LordOfDarkness
I told her that it was because we are fortunate while they were basically left behind.

Sounds like you could use some reading up yourself. I suggest the following essays as a starter:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-definition.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

 Originally Posted By: LordOfDarkness
She added that nature doesn't "choose" who is fortunate and who isn't.

Tell her to research natural selection. Assuming she knows what a library is.

 Quote:
She mentioned of her believing in evolution but to a certain extent; that we have come to earth from another planet by alien life forms and abandoned here because of our inability to progess intellectually as fast as them.

What is she, a Raelian or something? If she has evidence of this, then by all means, publish it. She'd be at least guarenteed a Nobel Prize for science. Or, isn't it much likely that she does NOT have evidence that has somehow escaped every other scientist, since there isn't any?

 Quote:
She also included that "God" is more than likely an alien who is so much highly evolved that us humans in general cannot understand his physical and mental potential and therefore making religionists believe he is all powerful.

And you think you can "discuss" science with somebody who actually believes in such crap?

 Quote:
However she argues that life could not possibly start here without some cause that was not accidental or a "just happened" event and we were set here purposely.

That is the rallying cry of the spiritual pipe dreamer. The only people who think science is proposing things came about by "accident" or "random chance" are deluded creationists, such as your girlfriend.
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#308789 - 02/22/08 08:11 PM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: AurEum]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11460
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: ealaiontoir
So basically she's saying that humans could not have evolved from apes, yet evolving from aliens is plausible?

I am a bit confused as to how her thought process works

My guess is that it's largely driven by a need to feel like a special product, without any effort of her own doing.
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#308798 - 02/22/08 09:13 PM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: Bill_M]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
 Originally Posted By: Bill_M
[quote=LordOfDarkness]
Furthermore, this isn't a question you can resolve by a verbal debate.


Increasingly, I feel it's a question that I'm sorely tempted to resolve by administering a few beatings.

Though, if this really is "pick your ancestor" day, I'll definitely go with dragons. Or possibly Predacons. (If I pick my ancestor, do I also get to pick my descendants, absolutely free?)
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#308815 - 02/23/08 12:10 AM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: TrojZyr]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11460
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: TrojZyr
Increasingly, I feel it's a question that I'm sorely tempted to resolve by administering a few beatings.

Though, if this really is "pick your ancestor" day, I'll definitely go with dragons. Or possibly Predacons. (If I pick my ancestor, do I also get to pick my descendants, absolutely free?)

You know, Witch TrojZyr, I'm not one to type "LOL" after replies and leave it at that. But both lines of this had me cracking up. Thank you.
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Reverend Bill M.

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#308822 - 02/23/08 12:55 AM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: Bill_M]
GEBS Offline



Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 5
Loc: Philadelphia
 Originally Posted By: Bill_M
primates have a common ancestor.


My son and I recently had a discussion about this. We both agree that this is the most likely truth, as far as we can tell.


Thank you for posting those links. We will surely have some interesting discussion as we read through them.

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#308830 - 02/23/08 01:57 AM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: GEBS]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
I already looked over the top three links, very good information. I learned those things in high school but not so in depth. With all the creationists abound I started to confuse evolution as a process with evolution theory of how the process works.

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#308833 - 02/23/08 02:05 AM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: foreverlearning]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
Incorrect. It has been proven that organic compounds will form under the correct lab conditions but there's a big difference between an organic compound and "life".
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#308834 - 02/23/08 02:26 AM Re: Debate on Evolution [Re: Virus9]
FalloutGod Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
That's relative to how you define life, correct?

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